So you're upset that the KDF are well war like when it's part of Klingon culture to be aggressive? I'd think you'd be more upset with the Terran Empire... um I mean Federation. While both factions are portrayed poorly I do have to admit that the Klingons are the least poorly portrayed faction in the game.
To be honest Cryptic should have just set this game in the Mirror Universe to start with, there would be two factions. The Terran Empire (Humans, Trills, Vulcans, Tellarites, Andorians, Ferengi, Caitians) and the Alliance (Klingon, Cardassians, Bajorans, Orions, Naucassians, Ferasans and Letheans). You could even have Romulan and Remans subjugated by the Terran Empire and a protectorate of the Alliance since their Empire was abolished with the fall of the Homeworld or something. Or give them the credit they deserve and have them as a third unique faction on their own.
Back to point though. If you have ever read the back-story of STO, you'll also know that the Klingons did invade the Gorn as they were Undine and the Federation refused to help even with the evidence presented to them, instead condemning the invasion and having the guile to call it illegal. Though they themselves had Undine all through their own ranks so I suppose it isn't much of a surprise. If they (Cryptic) are to end the war they really need to dig deeper into this for both factions, escalate the war in the earlier missions before having it come to a conclusion like having Federation players unveiling the Undine in their leadership would be a good start towards that road, then the New Romulus, Nukara, Omega and all the other rep and cross faction missions like the Dominon arc and the new Tuvok missions would make sense.
To be totally honest all these cross factional content is really starting to sour my interest in the game. I hate it when I play as a Klingon and I am spoken too, and my BOFF speak like Federation officers, my Romulan is treated like a member of the faction she aligned with and so on. Very poor game design and at the end of the day you can see it's still all written from a Federation perspective, why not unique dialogue for each faction. The outcome is the same but the journey there is more true to the factions in question.
I just have to remember one of the quotes in my sig, Cryptic is sloppy. Breaking News at 11. This is what happens when there is no outline or plan and you just make up **** as you go along.
Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
They speak of honor and being great warriors and look down upon cowardice and deceit and yet they hide themselves from their enemy like a Romulan?
They wilfully kill civilians to get what they want?
They're not above performing assassinations, rather then fighting someone in honorable combat?
They strike from the shadows rather then presenting themselves for combat?
I mean really. Most Klingons behave like common street thugs when you get down to it. Yet they pay lip-service to their "honor" when they're really no better then marauding brigands, and will often use "infractions" against their "honor" as an easy excuse to pull a weapon and start a fight.
So, is it really any wonder why your character is portrayed as they were?
This has probably been covered before, but it was bothering me all weekend and I wanted to get it down in writing, so here it is.
The first time I levelled a KDF character - when you started at level 20 - I skipped pretty much every mission that pitted make against Starfleet, as it didn't fit with the backstory of my character and I didn't need the XP. When I came to level my second very recently, right from level 1, I figured it would be the ideal time to play through the full set of revamped missions. For the most part, they were great, but I was left with a sour taste in my mouth in many of the missions fighting the Federation.
99% of the time, I'm able to mentally gloss over the somewhat ridiculous amount of killing our Captains do in the game. Even so, I wasn't able to suppress the involuntary spit-take I performed during "A Step Between Stars" when Tuvok casually mentioned that he was aware of my "extensive combat experience". No kidding, Tuvok. When you tally up the thousands of people killed in ground combat, and the tens of thousands of crew killed in space combat (not even counting Borg), the service records of me and my bridge officers and would make Genghis Khan blush. For the most part though, I can rationalise this: I'm defending the Federation (or the Empire, or New Romulus) against violent aggressors who shoot first on sight, don't ask questions, and rarely surrender.
Unfortunately, that pretence is difficult to maintain during some of the early KDF missions.
It started right off the bat with "Challenge for Command" when I destroyed a Galaxy class starship. Seeing a clone of the ship I loved for 7 seasons of TNG in flames, listing out of control, and then exploding just didn't feel right. Maybe I just don't like playing the bad guy? It got worse in "Space Chase" when you have to destroy the Starfleet vessels who have been tricked into violating Klingon space, even after they admit their fault and offer to withdraw. OK, OK, I get it, Klingons offer no quarter. Beating Captain Hollingsworth to within an inch of his life in "Second Star to the Right, Straight on 'til Morning" wasn't fabulous either.
This mission just epitomised how completely outlandish your character's actions are in the early KDF missions. I was able to keep it together right up until I reached the interior of the prison and freed the captured Klingon warriors. At that point, it suddenly dawned on me that I had tortured a Starfleet captain, destroyed his defenceless, crippled vessel and murdered all the remaining crew on board, killed hundreds of Starfleet officers, destroyed a dozen more ships fighting into the heart of Federation territory - and for what? To rescue a ground total of four NPCs who are so important to the Empire that they are named…
"Klingon Prisoner".
Whoever wrote this mission had truly lost all sense of proportion. The lengths my character went to in order to break out a tiny handful of nobodies made me want to flip my desk over. I get that Klingons are a warlike people, but their actions are supposed to be grounded in honour. This mission did not make me feel like an honourable warrior. It made me feel like a bloodthirsty psychopath. And I will never play it again.
im responding to this before I read any further in the thread. but sounds to me like you don't really want to be a Klingon warrior. as for the intense interrogation of the federation captain it was needed to get the information. for killing his crew it was needed to protect the mission, if they had let them live they would have informed Starfleet that we were coming.
to rescue a prisoner any prisoner even the ones you seem to think are worthless ( now who is being cruel?) is needed to maintain the moral of a fighting army. especially Klingons.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
I do agree that it would be nice to have more choices like in that KDF mission with the Hirogen, where you can either crack a puzzle or punch a guy in the face to get past an objective. Even little things here and there so it's less like our first and only option is "scream and leap".
its a Romulan I always beat him him down. no other option the way I see it. anything less would be a sign of weakness that a scummy Romulan would pick up on.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
Absolutely this.
But obviously a small yet vocal minority (plus Cryptic themselves as it seems) actually likes their space orks and doesn't mind driving off less, erm.. unscrupulous players in the process.
J'mpok is a moron, and the Klingons are depicted as bloodthirsty, pretty much brainless and actually honorless brutes. Period. If that floats your boat, fine.
But no wonder this and the monochromatic dullness of KDF-land doesn't attract all to many fans. Everyone who loved Martok and/or Worf is more or less bound to end up appalled by this travesty.
I'm not asking for flower-power peace Klingons, mind you. Just a bit more warrior, a bit less brute.
1 J'mpok is a fool needs to be removed from power.
2 Martok was pure awesomeness loved the character. Like when he bet ben the blood whine for 1st on cardassia prime. then wanting to drink a toast over the dead bodies. the feddy bears poured out their drinks and walk off, martok shrugs it off and takes a swing.
3 Worf LOL really disliked him he was corrupted by the federation. only reason Martok even liked him was their time shared in prison where Worf actually acted like a Klingon. which didn't happen often.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
They speak of honor and being great warriors and look down upon cowardice and deceit and yet they hide themselves from their enemy like a Romulan?
They wilfully kill civilians to get what they want?
They're not above performing assassinations, rather then fighting someone in honorable combat?
They strike from the shadows rather then presenting themselves for combat?
I mean really. Most Klingons behave like common street thugs when you get down to it. Yet they pay lip-service to their "honor" when they're really no better then marauding brigands, and will often use "infractions" against their "honor" as an easy excuse to pull a weapon and start a fight.
So, is it really any wonder why your character is portrayed as they were?
this poster sounds like the cry baby feddy bears that just got killed by a decloaking battle cruiser. I hear it all the time so much for honor blah blah blah .
Using the tools of modern war is not dishonorable and a cloaking device is one of those tools. in kerrat as of late Klingons are far outnumbered by feddy bears and they still cry when they die. and crow like rosters when 3 of them manage to finally kill a BoP.
and in war civilians are potiential warriors that just have not been recruited yet.
to a culture where winning is the greatest honor that trumps all your petty arguments.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
There a a lot more than two things actually. (on the topic, not your post)
The.....erm.....quality.....of the writing in STO is something I think we can agree on. I mean, when there are a lot of foundry missions with better and more apropriate story content than your official story content, that speaks volumes by itself.
And the dialogue branching option and the apropriate dialogues per species you mentioned have been discussed for hundreds of times over and over and over and over....sadly, I don't think that this is the company that will ever make this happen, they seem not to be interested. Or at least this will never happen under the current leadership obviously.
How did DStahl put it some while ago? Ah yes..."That what you're looking for is another game".
To be totally honest all these cross factional content is really starting to sour my interest in the game. I hate it when I play as a Klingon and I am spoken too, and my BOFF speak like Federation officers, my Romulan is treated like a member of the faction she aligned with and so on. Very poor game design and at the end of the day you can see it's still all written from a Federation perspective, why not unique dialogue for each faction. The outcome is the same but the journey there is more true to the factions in question.
I just have to remember one of the quotes in my sig, Cryptic is sloppy. Breaking News at 11. This is what happens when there is no outline or plan and you just make up **** as you go along.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with you on this one. I think the player you quoted hit the nail on the head with that one.
They speak of honor and being great warriors and look down upon cowardice and deceit and yet they hide themselves from their enemy like a Romulan?
They wilfully kill civilians to get what they want?
They're not above performing assassinations, rather then fighting someone in honorable combat?
They strike from the shadows rather then presenting themselves for combat?
I mean really. Most Klingons behave like common street thugs when you get down to it. Yet they pay lip-service to their "honor" when they're really no better then marauding brigands, and will often use "infractions" against their "honor" as an easy excuse to pull a weapon and start a fight.
So, is it really any wonder why your character is portrayed as they were?
One thing people need to remember that 'honor' has a different meaning for alien species as oposed to our human view. The Klingons, under their own terms are honorable. Not every alien species in the universe has the same values and meaning of words and phrases.
Remember Garak's reaction when Bashir told him the story of the boy who cried 'wolf'?
He told him that the moral of the story is not to lie and Garak replied - "Oh, I thought the moral of the story is not to say the same lie twice".
I dont agree because Klingons were pragmatic enough, Chang is a example of that.
"The House of Quark" is a example to why what you claim is wrong, everyone knew what D'Ghor did but the moment he tried to kill Quark was the point were he crossed the line because at that point he abandoned all pretenses, Klingon "Honor" is something they can be pragmatic about because they arent idiots but there are lines, no Klingon will act like D'Ghor did in public because its dishonorable but they will do it in private.
In the end the point is Klingons have a public face and honor is a important aspect of their culture but they arent two dimensional beings that are entirely defined by a few aspects, this is the difference of a caricature (or Planet of Hats) and a society.
Trying to change meaning of the word because "alien" is simply trying to have your cake and eat it too, either you accept Klingon Honor is honor or its not, its not going to change its meaning, Honor for a Klingon means exactly the same as for a Human, doesnt mean Klingons will not be pragmatic enough to use other means as long it doesnt cross the line (or are caught).
You missunderstood me. I'm not saying the Klignons aren't pragmatic and way deeper and complex as species than Cryptic is portraying them in STO. You're wrong about the honor thingh though, the Klingons don't have the same concept of honor with Humans.
Anyway, I was replying to another person that accused the Klingons of not being honorable due to using the advatage of the cloaking devices and the element of suprise. Doing that is not hypocritical nor dishonorable in their books, public or private, hence why I'm saying they have a different concept of honor. Even General Chang you mentioned, striked and schemed from a cloaking B'rel.
Honestly, I'd like to see all missions reworked with diplomacy options. Like entire fights sequences you can avoid just by working through the dialogue tree just right. This could be coupled with branching story lines and such to make a VERY epic game.
im responding to this before I read any further in the thread. but sounds to me like you don't really want to be a Klingon warrior. as for the intense interrogation of the federation captain it was needed to get the information. for killing his crew it was needed to protect the mission, if they had let them live they would have informed Starfleet that we were coming.
to rescue a prisoner any prisoner even the ones you seem to think are worthless ( now who is being cruel?) is needed to maintain the moral of a fighting army. especially Klingons.
I'm going with this. That Captain could have given up the information at any time if he had chosen. You really didn't have the time for days of solitary confinement and sensory deprivation to soften him up and get the information "nicely".
umm, WOW orcs were BASED on Klingons, Klingons ARE space orcs, that was really the entry point.
So since Daleks are based on TRIBBLE, TRIBBLE are actually Daleks.
TOS Klingons were based on Mongols so Mongols are actually Klingons.
The Romulan Bird-of-Prey from "Balance of Terror" was based on subarines, so submarines are actualy cloaked spaceships.
And since Phasers are based on RL guns, guns are actually Phasers.
That A shares characteristics with B does not mean hat B is the same as A.
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
umm, WOW orcs were BASED on Klingons, Klingons ARE space orcs, that was really the entry point.
That JRR fellow might disagree. Though wow is its own thing and gave them a functional society, most orcs including wow's do trace back to much older writings than star trek.
Actually, By biggest problem with the KDF is my Orion is not klingon, but her behavior and words are always stereotypical klingon I makes the assumption she is playing it up for her crew.
Its why my 2nd "KDF" character is an allies Romulan.
But by biggest what the hell moment was when, I gunned down an entire bar full of people on nimbus III. My Fed tac Captain was "Huh...that came out of no where" as he and I were just confused as a situation that spiraled out of control.
My Fed Allied romulan medic/Scientist was put off. "Wow I just killed a lot of people"
My KDF orion engineer, who as part of her back ground I had she was unwillingly conscripted, Who liked the Federation, but sill beams in mines and bombs. That was an abject slaughter on every level. No one in that bar had a chance against her.
I thought as a role playing mind set...I just committed a serious crime. :eek:
And I have 2 more characters to put through that...not looking forward to it.
I thought as a role playing mind set...I just committed a serious crime.
Orions you say? Nah, you didn't commit a crime.
How did Captain Jack Sparrow put it......."Pirates, mate!".
Or Barbossa for that matter - "The code is actually more of a guideline, not actual rules". :P
Meh... the beating of a Starfleet captain aboard his own starship, inside his own Captain's Chambers as his crew lay dead and dying before him, all to get the codes, and then vaporizing him was very Klingon. Esp. when going by the Kirk-era movies.
This mission in particular is one of the highlights of the KDF missions, IMO
The heart of a true Klingon burns with fire for battle. It matters not who the enemy is. In this universe the the Federation is enemy number one for the KDF, even more than Romulans. You should expect nothing less than seeing your character destroying Fed ships and toasting bloodwine while singing songs of the victory. Even if your character is a non-Klingon species, "to die while serving the Empire is the hope of every Klingon." They would have never been accepted into the KDF if they did not swear to that.
"If a warrior does not fight, he does not breathe."
"Klingons are born to fight and conquer."
Yes Martok and Worf may have appeared to be different, but there was an alliance between the Feds and KDF at that time. There is no alliance here, there is open war. If you want diplomatic solutions or get upset having to kill all the enemies of the Empire, then KDF is probably not for you.
Meh... the beating of a Starfleet captain aboard his own starship, inside his own Captain's Chambers as his crew lay dead and dying before him, all to get the codes, and then vaporizing him was very Klingon. Esp. when going by the Kirk-era movies.
This mission in particular is one of the highlights of the KDF missions, IMO
I agree. Cowardly TRIBBLE hid in his ready room while rest of his crew fought valiantly and died with honor. He deserved far greater punishment than some beating and quick merciful death.
Actually, By biggest problem with the KDF is my Orion is not klingon, but her behavior and words are always stereotypical klingon I makes the assumption she is playing it up for her crew.
Its why my 2nd "KDF" character is an allies Romulan.
But by biggest what the hell moment was when, I gunned down an entire bar full of people on nimbus III. My Fed tac Captain was "Huh...that came out of no where" as he and I were just confused as a situation that spiraled out of control.
My Fed Allied romulan medic/Scientist was put off. "Wow I just killed a lot of people"
My KDF orion engineer, who as part of her back ground I had she was unwillingly conscripted, Who liked the Federation, but sill beams in mines and bombs. That was an abject slaughter on every level. No one in that bar had a chance against her.
I thought as a role playing mind set...I just committed a serious crime. :eek:
And I have 2 more characters to put through that...not looking forward to it.
You do know energy weapons have stun setting right? And you can use stun/disable mines/grenades instead of explosive ones?
It's all how you interpret the situation. From RP standpoint, you don't need to actually kill all those folks - just like you don't necessarily blow up all those ships in space combat. Any kind of realism left the building the first time you destroyed capital ship with your tier 1 ship (like destroying D'Deridex with T'Liss), so I see no issue with playing make-believe that you just disabled your enemies, and didn't actually kill them.
I agree. Cowardly TRIBBLE hid in his ready room while rest of his crew fought valiantly and died with honor. He deserved far greater punishment than some beating and quick merciful death.
I wholeheartedly agree hey that would make a good foundry mission, where we get to kill the guy over and over in eternal damnation within the gates of Greathor. :P
Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
This is the best explanation I've read of this so far, but I'd be equally uncomfortable with my Fed captain going to the same lengths to rescue a handful of nameless redshirts. I'd rather we had the sort of Klingons that gpgtx wishes for 2 posts up from this - formidable warriors who are still able to apply reason rather than solving every problem with disruptors and Bat'leths.
That is the Klingon way they live for battle and thrive during wartime. I grew up with TNG and liked the contrast to TOS which was no hostilities between the Klingons and Fed however in this game I quite like them being at war as shown in Ds9 tensions were getting hot with them during the dominion war not to say I would like peace with the to factions in the future but would love to see more missions related to this war as the truce between the three factions is beginning to become old. The KDF are making threats but not doing what they normally do which is fight to claim great honour. The RR is just a poor sub faction and nothing like the romulans that I loved for TNG which is why I very rarely use my RR toon since I can't be a Tal Shiar captain.
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I agree. Cowardly TRIBBLE hid in his ready room while rest of his crew fought valiantly and died with honor. He deserved far greater punishment than some beating and quick merciful death.
Yeah, it's easy to make the case that he was undeserving of respect (in Klingon terms). To not even pick up a weapon while battle raged mere meters away from him! A Klingon captain in the same situation would have fought and died with honor (or at least been trying to activate the self-destruct, if he had not the strength to raise a weapon).
A Klingon captain in the same situation would have fought and died with honor (or at least been trying to activate the self-destruct, if he had not the strength to raise a weapon).
Sincerely, I see no reason why real Federation captain wouldn't do the same. And he definitely wouldn't fall so easily to interrogation - heck, even orion pheromones take some time to work properly. It's just bad writing, like majority of those starting missions. Especially "steal the runabout" mission - it's just sad how opposing side often gets dumbed down for the purpose of running a weak plot.
Cryptic does what it does it hits sometimes, most times misses and always exaggerates.
The mission keep your enemies closer is a fail because no matter how many people the Klingon prisoners kill, they still bare the stain of dishonor of being captured, instead of fighting to the death they were captured. Yet we are given no option to grant them freedom from their dishonor by a warriors death instead, we get: "well that was fun lets hop back on the bus (runabout) to Qo'nos, good times for everyone!" *high fives all around*
my captain *facepalms* and gets a incoming message from J'mpok: "You have made a name for yourself in the Klingon Empire, (Me: darn skippy, wheres my promotion!) and I am sure that I will hear more songs sung about your glorious victories. (Me: There better be!) Those warriors owe you their lives and their honor, (Me: they have no honor they were captured why can't I shoot em?) and your Empire owes you a debt of gratitude." (Me: Just shut up and give me some bloodwine, this conversation is giving me a headache)
That's the odd thing about KDF, You have Orions, Gorn, Naussicans, Fareseans, Lethans all acting like klingons when few have any reason to. That's why a came up with the fiction that my character (Orion) is simply playing it up for the crew.
That's why my second KFD character is Romulan allied, I mean I had a Gorn, but why would a gorn intellectual (A medic who bit people, Model after Dr. Ree of Star Trek Titan)
Act like a wanna be klingon? And ambassador S'tass (I assume that's a rank cause I have 3 blue doffs of that name) is just an opportunist or a nut.
Comments
To be honest Cryptic should have just set this game in the Mirror Universe to start with, there would be two factions. The Terran Empire (Humans, Trills, Vulcans, Tellarites, Andorians, Ferengi, Caitians) and the Alliance (Klingon, Cardassians, Bajorans, Orions, Naucassians, Ferasans and Letheans). You could even have Romulan and Remans subjugated by the Terran Empire and a protectorate of the Alliance since their Empire was abolished with the fall of the Homeworld or something. Or give them the credit they deserve and have them as a third unique faction on their own.
Back to point though. If you have ever read the back-story of STO, you'll also know that the Klingons did invade the Gorn as they were Undine and the Federation refused to help even with the evidence presented to them, instead condemning the invasion and having the guile to call it illegal. Though they themselves had Undine all through their own ranks so I suppose it isn't much of a surprise. If they (Cryptic) are to end the war they really need to dig deeper into this for both factions, escalate the war in the earlier missions before having it come to a conclusion like having Federation players unveiling the Undine in their leadership would be a good start towards that road, then the New Romulus, Nukara, Omega and all the other rep and cross faction missions like the Dominon arc and the new Tuvok missions would make sense.
To be totally honest all these cross factional content is really starting to sour my interest in the game. I hate it when I play as a Klingon and I am spoken too, and my BOFF speak like Federation officers, my Romulan is treated like a member of the faction she aligned with and so on. Very poor game design and at the end of the day you can see it's still all written from a Federation perspective, why not unique dialogue for each faction. The outcome is the same but the journey there is more true to the factions in question.
I just have to remember one of the quotes in my sig, Cryptic is sloppy. Breaking News at 11. This is what happens when there is no outline or plan and you just make up **** as you go along.
They speak of honor and being great warriors and look down upon cowardice and deceit and yet they hide themselves from their enemy like a Romulan?
They wilfully kill civilians to get what they want?
They're not above performing assassinations, rather then fighting someone in honorable combat?
They strike from the shadows rather then presenting themselves for combat?
I mean really. Most Klingons behave like common street thugs when you get down to it. Yet they pay lip-service to their "honor" when they're really no better then marauding brigands, and will often use "infractions" against their "honor" as an easy excuse to pull a weapon and start a fight.
So, is it really any wonder why your character is portrayed as they were?
im responding to this before I read any further in the thread. but sounds to me like you don't really want to be a Klingon warrior. as for the intense interrogation of the federation captain it was needed to get the information. for killing his crew it was needed to protect the mission, if they had let them live they would have informed Starfleet that we were coming.
to rescue a prisoner any prisoner even the ones you seem to think are worthless ( now who is being cruel?) is needed to maintain the moral of a fighting army. especially Klingons.
its a Romulan I always beat him him down. no other option the way I see it. anything less would be a sign of weakness that a scummy Romulan would pick up on.
1 J'mpok is a fool needs to be removed from power.
2 Martok was pure awesomeness loved the character. Like when he bet ben the blood whine for 1st on cardassia prime. then wanting to drink a toast over the dead bodies. the feddy bears poured out their drinks and walk off, martok shrugs it off and takes a swing.
3 Worf LOL really disliked him he was corrupted by the federation. only reason Martok even liked him was their time shared in prison where Worf actually acted like a Klingon. which didn't happen often.
this poster sounds like the cry baby feddy bears that just got killed by a decloaking battle cruiser. I hear it all the time so much for honor blah blah blah .
Using the tools of modern war is not dishonorable and a cloaking device is one of those tools. in kerrat as of late Klingons are far outnumbered by feddy bears and they still cry when they die. and crow like rosters when 3 of them manage to finally kill a BoP.
and in war civilians are potiential warriors that just have not been recruited yet.
to a culture where winning is the greatest honor that trumps all your petty arguments.
There a a lot more than two things actually. (on the topic, not your post)
The.....erm.....quality.....of the writing in STO is something I think we can agree on. I mean, when there are a lot of foundry missions with better and more apropriate story content than your official story content, that speaks volumes by itself.
And the dialogue branching option and the apropriate dialogues per species you mentioned have been discussed for hundreds of times over and over and over and over....sadly, I don't think that this is the company that will ever make this happen, they seem not to be interested. Or at least this will never happen under the current leadership obviously.
How did DStahl put it some while ago? Ah yes..."That what you're looking for is another game".
Unfortunately, I have to agree with you on this one. I think the player you quoted hit the nail on the head with that one.
One thing people need to remember that 'honor' has a different meaning for alien species as oposed to our human view. The Klingons, under their own terms are honorable. Not every alien species in the universe has the same values and meaning of words and phrases.
Remember Garak's reaction when Bashir told him the story of the boy who cried 'wolf'?
He told him that the moral of the story is not to lie and Garak replied - "Oh, I thought the moral of the story is not to say the same lie twice".
You missunderstood me. I'm not saying the Klignons aren't pragmatic and way deeper and complex as species than Cryptic is portraying them in STO. You're wrong about the honor thingh though, the Klingons don't have the same concept of honor with Humans.
Anyway, I was replying to another person that accused the Klingons of not being honorable due to using the advatage of the cloaking devices and the element of suprise. Doing that is not hypocritical nor dishonorable in their books, public or private, hence why I'm saying they have a different concept of honor. Even General Chang you mentioned, striked and schemed from a cloaking B'rel.
I cant believe i am spending so much time getting a mirror version of my bff Hakeev. At least i dont have to take a back seat to Shon any more.
And most of the time, i just want to farm my dil and rep. KDF is just more fun with the BoPs, though Romulan Warbirds are cool, in a more rigid way.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
I'm going with this. That Captain could have given up the information at any time if he had chosen. You really didn't have the time for days of solitary confinement and sensory deprivation to soften him up and get the information "nicely".
So since Daleks are based on TRIBBLE, TRIBBLE are actually Daleks.
TOS Klingons were based on Mongols so Mongols are actually Klingons.
The Romulan Bird-of-Prey from "Balance of Terror" was based on subarines, so submarines are actualy cloaked spaceships.
And since Phasers are based on RL guns, guns are actually Phasers.
That A shares characteristics with B does not mean hat B is the same as A.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
That JRR fellow might disagree. Though wow is its own thing and gave them a functional society, most orcs including wow's do trace back to much older writings than star trek.
Its why my 2nd "KDF" character is an allies Romulan.
But by biggest what the hell moment was when, I gunned down an entire bar full of people on nimbus III. My Fed tac Captain was "Huh...that came out of no where" as he and I were just confused as a situation that spiraled out of control.
My Fed Allied romulan medic/Scientist was put off. "Wow I just killed a lot of people"
My KDF orion engineer, who as part of her back ground I had she was unwillingly conscripted, Who liked the Federation, but sill beams in mines and bombs. That was an abject slaughter on every level. No one in that bar had a chance against her.
I thought as a role playing mind set...I just committed a serious crime.
And I have 2 more characters to put through that...not looking forward to it.
Orions you say? Nah, you didn't commit a crime.
How did Captain Jack Sparrow put it......."Pirates, mate!".
Or Barbossa for that matter - "The code is actually more of a guideline, not actual rules". :P
This mission in particular is one of the highlights of the KDF missions, IMO
"If a warrior does not fight, he does not breathe."
"Klingons are born to fight and conquer."
Yes Martok and Worf may have appeared to be different, but there was an alliance between the Feds and KDF at that time. There is no alliance here, there is open war. If you want diplomatic solutions or get upset having to kill all the enemies of the Empire, then KDF is probably not for you.
I agree. Cowardly TRIBBLE hid in his ready room while rest of his crew fought valiantly and died with honor. He deserved far greater punishment than some beating and quick merciful death.
You do know energy weapons have stun setting right? And you can use stun/disable mines/grenades instead of explosive ones?
It's all how you interpret the situation. From RP standpoint, you don't need to actually kill all those folks - just like you don't necessarily blow up all those ships in space combat. Any kind of realism left the building the first time you destroyed capital ship with your tier 1 ship (like destroying D'Deridex with T'Liss), so I see no issue with playing make-believe that you just disabled your enemies, and didn't actually kill them.
I wholeheartedly agree hey that would make a good foundry mission, where we get to kill the guy over and over in eternal damnation within the gates of Greathor. :P
That is the Klingon way they live for battle and thrive during wartime. I grew up with TNG and liked the contrast to TOS which was no hostilities between the Klingons and Fed however in this game I quite like them being at war as shown in Ds9 tensions were getting hot with them during the dominion war not to say I would like peace with the to factions in the future but would love to see more missions related to this war as the truce between the three factions is beginning to become old. The KDF are making threats but not doing what they normally do which is fight to claim great honour. The RR is just a poor sub faction and nothing like the romulans that I loved for TNG which is why I very rarely use my RR toon since I can't be a Tal Shiar captain.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yeah, it's easy to make the case that he was undeserving of respect (in Klingon terms). To not even pick up a weapon while battle raged mere meters away from him! A Klingon captain in the same situation would have fought and died with honor (or at least been trying to activate the self-destruct, if he had not the strength to raise a weapon).
Sincerely, I see no reason why real Federation captain wouldn't do the same. And he definitely wouldn't fall so easily to interrogation - heck, even orion pheromones take some time to work properly. It's just bad writing, like majority of those starting missions. Especially "steal the runabout" mission - it's just sad how opposing side often gets dumbed down for the purpose of running a weak plot.
The mission keep your enemies closer is a fail because no matter how many people the Klingon prisoners kill, they still bare the stain of dishonor of being captured, instead of fighting to the death they were captured. Yet we are given no option to grant them freedom from their dishonor by a warriors death instead, we get: "well that was fun lets hop back on the bus (runabout) to Qo'nos, good times for everyone!" *high fives all around*
my captain *facepalms* and gets a incoming message from J'mpok: "You have made a name for yourself in the Klingon Empire, (Me: darn skippy, wheres my promotion!) and I am sure that I will hear more songs sung about your glorious victories. (Me: There better be!) Those warriors owe you their lives and their honor, (Me: they have no honor they were captured why can't I shoot em?) and your Empire owes you a debt of gratitude." (Me: Just shut up and give me some bloodwine, this conversation is giving me a headache)
/Satire off
That's why my second KFD character is Romulan allied, I mean I had a Gorn, but why would a gorn intellectual (A medic who bit people, Model after Dr. Ree of Star Trek Titan)
Act like a wanna be klingon? And ambassador S'tass (I assume that's a rank cause I have 3 blue doffs of that name) is just an opportunist or a nut.