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Torpedoes should be improved
shinzonisback
Member Posts: 330
Ok, lets say that torpedoes are a weapon that ALL starships should have: in every star trek series, every ship had torpedo launchers ...
And they were certainly the strongest weapon in Star Trek (except special weapons like the Thalaron Pulse etc...)
So: why devs are trying to force us to not use them ?
Cause torps are quite useless nowaday.
They are my favourte weapons: for me, there is nothing more beautiful than a majestic salvo of 4 quantum torpedoes flying toward their target and blasting it with their detonation *_*
So: here's a list of possible modifications ...
1 - Innate Crit Severity Bonus: 20% to all torpedoes.
2 - Elite Fleet Photon Torpedoes:
Recharge Time reduced by 2sec.
3 - Elite Fleet Quantum Torpedoes:
35% Bleedthrough
4 - Tactical Initiative Ability modified to halve all Torpedoes Recharge Times other than Tactical BOffs Skills.
And they were certainly the strongest weapon in Star Trek (except special weapons like the Thalaron Pulse etc...)
So: why devs are trying to force us to not use them ?
Cause torps are quite useless nowaday.
They are my favourte weapons: for me, there is nothing more beautiful than a majestic salvo of 4 quantum torpedoes flying toward their target and blasting it with their detonation *_*
So: here's a list of possible modifications ...
1 - Innate Crit Severity Bonus: 20% to all torpedoes.
2 - Elite Fleet Photon Torpedoes:
Recharge Time reduced by 2sec.
3 - Elite Fleet Quantum Torpedoes:
35% Bleedthrough
4 - Tactical Initiative Ability modified to halve all Torpedoes Recharge Times other than Tactical BOffs Skills.
Italian Player - Forgive my bad English
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Post edited by shinzonisback on
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Dude, get your spyware off my computer - I held off posting a thread on improving torpedoes right before you posted yours.
Oh, and 1 - maybe, 2 no, 3 no, 4 no.
As I was going to post (but held off on)
- Torpedoes should do full damage to shields with no bleed through, then spillover when their damage will break a facing, and then full damage to hull.
The torpedoes that canonically ignore shields, or perhaps a "match shield frequency", are the only sensible instances where hull damage would occur with shields up.
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The loading times yes can tend to be slow at times, but not to drastic as to how slow a torpedo moves thru space to hit its intended target is the other major factor hurting their effectiveness, unless you use torpspreads for instant no miss or extremely high Acc.
While I have done enough crit damage with a torpspread to knock out someone's shield facing in pvp, it tends to be far and few making torpedoes dps effectiveness lower than what it should be.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
2 Not needed as you have doffs for this.
3 Why is this just for quantums only? Makes no sense.
4 Way to give Tac captains another advantage over the other 2 classes. So no.
Maybe lower the base resistance of the shields Kinetic resist to 50% or so. Even at 50% you can use elite fleet shields to increase it by another 20% and the Jem Hadar shield is already another 10%. This may make STFs a bit more interesting.
But why just buff torpedos. Turrets need some serious love. They do absolutely TRIBBLE for damage.
2 - Well, this is not always possible: nowaday its way better have 2 Conn Officers, 2 Maintainence Engineers and 2 Developement Lab Scientists instead of Projectile Weapons Officers ...
3 - It wa only an idea about a possible Elite Fleet Quantum Torp Launcher ... don't take it seriously.
4 - Well, Tac Captains are not the best out there ... Engineers Captains have Miracle Worker that is a real life saver (I noticed this on a PvP
Tac Captains don't have nothing that useful ... the only good skill we have are Attack Pattern Alpha (that is really good) and Go Down Fighting (but this cannot be used unless our hull is at 50% or lower).
And they are not so deadly as a Subnuke Beam, or a Life Saver like a Miracle Worker ...
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1) Removed healing, both ability and proc.
2) Removed shield distribution.
3) Removed all over shield damage reduction outside of the 75%.
4) Removed all bonuses that improved energy weapon shield penetration or the ability to ignore damage resistance.
5) Removed...
...er, you know - might be easier for Cryptic just to take a look at torps again.
Torps require specialization into. They're part of your build. You can't just stick a torp launcher and expect "HO, EVERYTHING'S ALRIGHT". Just like everything else, it needs careful planning and consideration.
"Butbutbut I dont want to use PWO doffs"
"Well aint that some sh*t."
STO is ridiculously easy. If you want to use torps, then you're going to have to sacrifice another part of your build. It's not going to ruin your build entirely. It's a simple as that. Which do you want more? Which appeals to you more?
A small and inconsequential* DEEPS number increase you'll gain from those DHC, or torpedo spreads?
If you're not going to add PWO doffs, don't set them to autofire. Torpedoes require careful timing. You need to know just how long it takes for your quantorps to cross the distance and hit the target, and just how long it takes for your weapons to delete the target's shield facing.
Also, turrets have a 360* (720* technically, but w/e) arc. No other weapons have that arc, besides some of the special beam arrays. Turrets are fine.
(* there is a point where it doesn't matter how many thousand deeps you have. If you can solo a tac cube, you're not going to have any problems doing STO's content without one of your dual heavy cannon mountings.)
Now if you want something that needs a buff?
Single cannons. But that is a discussion for a different thread. Let's just focus on warhead dispensers, yes?
mmm, you should have missed the part where your opponent clicks on Science Team and fu*ks your strategy o.O
Also: torps are REALLY underpowered for PVPs.
In PVEs they are still useful, but they are really senseless in PVPs.
Also, there is the weapons power drain, so you can't run a build with 4 DHCs and 3 Turrets, you will deal more damage with 3 DHCs and 3 Turrets -_-
BUT Cruisers don't have this problem (what a coincidence -_- !) due to Cruiser Commands and DEM with Marion DOff.
Science Vessels don't need weapons to deal damages ... and the only ships that has been fu**ed are the escorts ... yeah -_- !
BUT: this is not the point.
The point is that in the movies, torps were the strongest weapons of Feds, Roms and KDFs ...
In STO instead, torpedoes and TRIBBLE.
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Wouldn't say they're senseless, they're just extremely niche - extremely niche...because of the various things I pointed out. The more Cryptic buffs healing and the more they buff energy weapons, the greater they stray from any sort of balance they may have once envisioned. Basically, torps haven't kept up with how the game has changed...they're dinosaurs waiting to go extinct if things continue the way they have been going - yep, though I wouldn't say they're senseless at this point (still seeing them as having their ever more limited role) - at some point, if things continue...yeah, we'll have hit that point...
...and well, we're pretty damn close to that point. Could blink, and Cryptic does something in the next few weeks and there we'd be - listening to the fat lady sing at the end of a Traditional Klingon Opera.
Niche for sure but I don't get tired of my torpy'varo despite some diminished effectiveness compared to when I first rolled it out. I'm currently running it as photon torpedoes/photon mines and it's super fun. Do see logs like 1200(25000) though, but sticking with another escort and pumping torps into a target when they have a shield facing down is great fun and provides a nice piloting challenge for me. :P
Vanilla Ground PvP information
It should be nerfed.
75% -> 35%
Cause I really noticed that torps are too weak nowaday...
In Star Trek movies a salvo of 4 quantum torps were the deadliest thing for Fed, KDFs and Rom ...
Here a salvo of 4 quantum torps is quite ridiculous...
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You can't go off a single thing that happened in any series or movie...it was fictional, worked one way at Point X and worked another way at Point Y depending on how the writers needed something to work to move the story along...
Going from a 75% reduction to a 35% reduction would increase the damage (before other reductions) that kinetic does to shields from 25% to 65% which is more than doubling their damage against shields while not adjusting their increased damage versus hull. Wait, they don't have increased damage versus hull some say - sure they do, they're base damage is at least 562% that of DHCs...it's at least 2173% that of a Turret. The reason that torps have the higher base damage is balanced against that damage being reduced against shields.
The issue is the sheer amount of healing and increased resists as well as all sorts of magical procs that exist in the game...in PvP.
Now, if they were to boost the Hell out of NPC abilities with their healing or outright boost their shield health...then perhaps they could try to make that simple adjustment. Otherwise, it would be a case of implementing increased damage vs player shields in PvP but not PvE.
It's a complicated matter - no single thing will address the myriad of issues. Projectiles need a significant review and overhaul...hopefully with some foresight thrown in so it's not a case of being in the same place 6-9 months or 1-2 years down the road.
And well, frankly - that kind of looks like a complete combat overhaul that's extremely unlikely to happen, eh?
So perhaps they'll go the caustic bandaid route, create even more problems than they fix, and well - nobody will complain too much, because that's the expectation they have for Cryptic at this point.
Techically, it works out to 1.5s because of the 0.5s activation. Maybe they could start by making it a 0.5s gap, so with the 0.5s activation we're actually looking at 1s and take it from there...heh.
The bleed comes before the reduction.
Fire a torp at a standard shield...10% goes to hull, 90% hits the shields including the innate reduction. Fire at a resilient shield, 5% goes to hull, 95% hits the shields including the innate reduction.
The reduction doesn't reduce bleed.
Say we had a 1000 damage (easy number) torp...hitting standard shields. 100 to hull, 900 to shields. With that proposed change...1000 becomes 250 with 25% bleed would be 62.5 damage. That would be a nerf to torps...
Indeed, they should give energy weapons a 1 sec global cd. Fixing powercreep once and for all.:D
Heck, slap a bunch of phasers onto it, give a better propulsion system (for needed fire-power) and have it knock down shields for a brief moment. Having you to calculate the distance between you and your target. The farther away, more chance you have. Couple it with actualy phaser-based weaponry, a nice kinetic volley would do some damage.
It kind of reminds me of the torpedo Mogh ship comes with.
I just want actual torps to be useful in PVPs
ALSO: I don't want another stupid (probably plasma) torpedo that becomes gimmick and can be shot down if you use THY.
I just want my beutiful quantum torps to be useful and powerful as they should be.
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I was talking in the perspective of PvE. I also do not like target-able torpedoes either, though.
How about, instead of nerfing, we get some revamps.
I believe that every weapon should be modifiable, by interchangeable energy-types and proc chances. So we can make our own projectiles.
Kind of like the ground kits that are coming up. I have always hated that you need one type of proc and be stuck with a beam-type you do not like. Not to mention the sound it makes. If that is not possible, I would settle for allowing beam-color changes.
I apologize for the side-tracking.
1. They are all slow and ineffective and a standard torpedo launcher without any buffs fires too few torpedoes, and we can't have 27 torpedo launchers like the scimitar memory alpha description says. :P
2. You can maybe see people using the gravimetric, romulan, omega and the breen cluster. . These 4 can do a lot of dmg thats why they are useful ingame. (others are only good for shooting 1 hp targets, and spamming).
3. The high yield torpedo skill makes them all super slow, and possible to target.
So that even a slow cruiser flying with 20 impulse speed can escape almost everything firing at will. I hate seeing the HY gravimetric ..... its a turtle torpedo! Trying to hit a run away escort with it sure is a lottery. :P
I'd always wondered if that's where they might have considered going with the ever put off crafting revamp...
Very Rare Base Torpedo Shell, 4x Mods - could make Chron Trans [Acc]x2 - could make QuantPlas, etc, etc, etc...
Kind of like this;
Torpedo Launcher MkXII
Base; No Slot
Uncommon; One Slot
Rare; Two Slots
Very Rare; Three Slots
Mod Perks;
*CrtD: +20 Crit. Sev.
*CrtH: +2% Crit. Chc.
*Acc: +10% Acc.
*Dmg: +X Dmg.
*Point Defense [energy-type] per sec (Destructible Projectile)
*10%-50% Chance: Lesser -80/-160 or -80%/-160% Able/Alive Crew
Mod Payload;
*Chroniton
*Photon
*Plasma
*Quantum
*Transphasic
*Tricobalt
*Tractor Beam
Mod Energy-type (for Point Defense and Beam Banks etc etc)
Phaser
Disruptor
Etc. Etc.
I think the point has been made. Maybe some stay reserved for Reputation rewards, of course. It is a start towards crafting though.
The reason I went with four mods instead of three, is because Quantum - Photon - Chroniton, etc, etc, etc much like with Energy weapons - those are basically a "mod" with the three potential remaining mods one normally sees on a VR weapon.
But yeah...along those lines, and like you said - there would be still be the "special" weapons with mods that one would not necessarily be able to get any other way.
We might be able to make a custom Photon torp - but we couldn't make a Grav Photon torp - sort of thing...
Ah yes, of course - completely forgot the mod cap to allow for energy payloads changes.
It is logical in an in-game sense to have exchangeable Torpedo Launchers; though if you think about it - should not launchers and beam arrays be part of the ship hardpoints? Them consoles that boosts energy-types should actually determine what kind of energy it shoots.
That is my opinion anyway.
Although I personally try to avoid "Canon" references (can't remember if I stated why in this thread or not, think it was) - it is along the lines of what they tended to do and what we basically tend to do. We load different ammo or modify the ammo/weapon - we don't just completely switch out the weapon.
Hate to reference another game...but it's hard not to have EVE come to mind.
Increase shield bleedthrough on kinetic damage, so that torps rock the ship harder than energy weapons (like we saw in all the shows and movies).
And bump the global cooldown so they are not as spammable.
It would be a rough one, because of resilient vs. standard. Is it a case that resilient is providing 50% reduction in bleed? So that we'd be looking at 25% bleed vs. standard shields and 12.5% bleed vs. resilient? With the other 12.5% applied to shields?
And well, with it requiring 3 PWOs to get most torps to be able to fire a single torp every 1.5s - compared to the ability to fire 8 beams every 0.8s for 4s out of every 5s (up to two targets at that)...er...I'm not sure where spammable comes into play with torps in the least compared to energy weapons.
I mean, what you're describing is basically where they are already - they're slow firing and hard hitting against the hull (if they can hit the hull). Healing, healing procs, and resists have just kept up the ludicrous pace with energy damage...so the torps are kind of like the cousin at family reunions that sits in the corner and picks his nose.
Certainly not as high. Max 30%.
And maybe a bit of tac console stacking penalty.
Tanking skills adjusted so things still go pop.