You are so dumb it hurts. I am not even close to being a straight detection build, and can see cloakers at 17.5km out. I did not build a detection ship. I built a team disabler who is very effective at detecting cloaked ships. Yeah science has suffered with the team cd reduction, but it has not been nullified by any means.
-TaylorSwift
I might even go so far as to say it a science buff. :O
Yep not joking either.
People are running less resist skill which makes those silly little sci ships hurt more then they did before.
Also most sci are very good at AOE... and if you throw lots of AOE its easier to catch teams healing the wrong people at the wrong times... a few extra teams isn't as much extra healing as some people like to let on. Yes I have played a few games and yes it is more healing in the pug games no doubt... but I really don't think its more then a good premade... Its just dumbed down (mostly) to the level of average quer.
I only took my sci out once and there was no issues... my sci build seemed just as good as it did before the change... I swapped out to some more aoe style weapony though and the theory seemed to hold. If I for some crazy reason feel like playing STO more this weekend I'll test it out some more. I think the Sci spam AOE build that is in fact focusing someone you just don't really know who until the spike comes should be just as valid as it was 3 weeks ago.
There is still Ground PvP. That area has a decent amount of game balance overall.
Maybe so, but by it's very nature Star Trek sells itself more for the space aspect. Ground has a lot fewer problems than space, but it's biggest issue is the lack of ground PvPers in the first place.
Speaking of ground...need to get on Tribble and muck around with the kit revamp.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Maybe so, but by it's very nature Star Trek sells itself more for the space aspect. Ground has a lot fewer problems than space, but it's biggest issue is the lack of ground PvPers in the first place.
Speaking of ground...need to get on Tribble and muck around with the kit revamp.
It's..... Surprisingly over complicated for how dumbed down the game feels anymore. In a way it's a kind of nerf. I haven't seen purple quality kit modules yet but greens are MUCH reduced in power compared to regular kits. The spire and embassy kits have their 5 slots but they seem layed out in such a way that you won't be able recreate those kits the way they are on holo deck now. Yet if you have them they aren't changing. Big difference between before kit revamp players and after. I don't think the passive bonus' will make up for the way the spire and embassy kits are set up now.
This could be a good thing except for those old players who have the old kits. Is it fair an older player can have a physicist kit with grav shift, fire, and sonic pulse and the post revamp player won't be able to make it because the research kit on the spire has 2 research module slots and those three powers are all research slots? Meh what do I know? It is still a work in progress and at the very least it will be interesting to see what people come up with for build setups.
OT I know hawk said somewhere here doffs are designed to bend the rules of the game but I rather prefer pvp without them and yea older then 6 months. When it came out it felt cool and kinda fun but now having proper doffs is essential. Remember when doffing was about commanding your crew?
Well to be honest subnuke is unchanged... so the average pug is more likely to clear your nuke so what. Shame on them for being able to load a sci team themselves instead of a resist a premade player could load because his teammates auto clear him.
Sub nuke was never about the silly debuff in premades... pugs just got more premade like in being able to clear it more reliably. The main thing with nuke is and always has been the strip. There is NOTHING anyone can do about the strip. The silly debuff was cleared by any half way unsuck premade since S 1.0.
This is called teamwork. I had no problem when someone used his Sci Team to remove debuff from his friend, while putting their Tac Team on shared cd making vulnerable themselves. Or they could use Tac Team first and put their Sci Team on cd which prevented them from helping their friend.
None class ought to be able to nullify another. None class ought to be independent.
I don't want to play Kirk's Online. Teamwork is the most fun aspect of the gameplay and those games that don't have it are total boredom. This change doesn't benefit pugs. Evil premades got even more sci team for their allies.
There victories and defeats. Premades shall roll pugs and nothing shall change it. I also have been in pug team against premade and we rolled them. There different games for the reason of being a pvp.
I only took my sci out once and there was no issues...
Yeah, none of you here,but majortiraomega, are dedicated sci players, so you don't really care.
Really, I got an excellent idea for a new Duty Officer. Chance to remove tactical buffs from attackers with eptx for example. Fair enough.
I see no attention to elachi weapon buff from players as well. Wonders if any of you have que'd recently without a premade. Shield ignore weapons are an abuse and they have to be nerfed.
Well to be honest subnuke is unchanged... so the average pug is more likely to clear your nuke so what. Shame on them for being able to load a sci team themselves instead of a resist a premade player could load because his teammates auto clear him.
thats just a load of TRIBBLE and you know it. the fact that every tact will go sci team and not tss will prove it. count the sci teams in 1 premade.
3 sci =6 st 2 tacts =2 sci teams how many nukes will be in a premade? 3 sci =3 nukes.
tact says oh hey i just got nuked, sci says ill send a sci steam, tact says na i good dude i got my own. hit sci team while tt is up..............
face it sto pvp is more of a joke now then it was. it more geared to people that just want to spam space bar and watch tv while pvping or pveing. why do we even have buff icons now? we dont really need them at this point. we no longer need to really time anything.
I am not even close to being a straight detection build, and can see cloakers at 17.5km out. I did not build a detection ship.
I highly doubt you can see a max stealthed Romulan ship 17.5km out. You are probably using the Jem'hadar Deflector, Sensor Scan, and Emergency Power to Auxiliary III. That isn't reliable detection. Players may stealth every 12 seconds with Romulans, but counter stealth players may only detect them once every 90 seconds.
I built a team disabler who is very effective at detecting cloaked ships. Yeah science has suffered with the team cd reduction, but it has not been nullified by any means.
Really, it hasn't been nullified? Then how do you shut down a ship using EPtS + EPtE + Cleanse WCE with APO/APD + Conn Officer x2 + Aux2ID + Matter/Anti-Matter Specialist + Science Team + Romulan Battle Cloak? Good luck with it, Science is useless at the moment against anyone using such builds. If it were possible to kill with Science Vessels, then we wouldn't have everyone flying around in FAW Cruiser/Battle Cruiser/Scimitar builds, vaper Romulans, and speedy escorts. The only effective Science Vessels at the moment are the builds running in a healer capacity.
Yeah, none of you here,but majortiraomega, are dedicated sci players, so you don't really care.
I play my sci plenty over the last 4 years I likely have a couple thousand hours in my scis. I played sci bob for likely 3-4 months worth of play time. (not months months Worth of play time). I think I understand sci just fine.
As for a boff that wipes tac debuffs... ya its called tac team. When tac team got its spin it screwed over tac in 2 ways....
1) it quadrupled shields which made tac buffs pointless and REQUIRED us to team with sci players much more then before. before that change no team ran more then one tac because they where far to squishy... after that change you could run perhaps 2 but more then that was a bad idea as well as tacs couldn't kill anything alone.
2) Tac team got pushed to 10s from 5s (every team used to be 5s clear). This means Attack pattern Beta is useless (even more now just like there are more sci teams there are now more tac teams)... it also wipes the debuffs from APD... and clears FOMM. Fire on my mark hasn't been all that useful for a couple years now.
This change is just not the swan song for sci many people are making it out to be... and I know that because I played sci long enough to know that... I only played my sci once or twice since the change because I have only been logged in once or twice. lol
thats just a load of TRIBBLE and you know it. the fact that every tact will go sci team and not tss will prove it. count the sci teams in 1 premade.
3 sci =6 st 2 tacts =2 sci teams how many nukes will be in a premade? 3 sci =3 nukes.
tact says oh hey i just got nuked, sci says ill send a sci steam, tact says na i good dude i got my own. hit sci team while tt is up..............
face it sto pvp is more of a joke now then it was. it more geared to people that just want to spam space bar and watch tv while pvping or pveing. why do we even have buff icons now? we dont really need them at this point. we no longer need to really time anything.
When did sci team start restoring skills ?
I think you guys are all forgetting what sub nuke is for.
Do people die because they have a silly cool down debuff... or because they have 20 buffs stripped instantly ?
Does an attacking tactical really get messed up by the debuff or by having his captain powers removed ?
Nuke isn't about debuffs its about strips... last I checked there is nothing to be done about the strip.
If you where playing your sci revolving around trying to land some crazy 130 aux 40s cool down debuff your doing it wrong. The second you got in a match vs real players you would have had to adjust anyway. This change is good for scis it is premade training for pugs. lol Your debuff is going to be insta cleared likely just like in the big leagues. So figure out how to make it work anyway because the strip is the thing man.
nuke has always been about the strip first, the cooldown lengthening is just gravy. you cant get your EPtS back, your RSP back or that GDF + every other tac skill alpha strike back, its gone even if a sci team clears the cooldown debuff right after.
edit: And regarding the SNB strip, that's a Sci captain - but that's not the same as saying Sci. They have access to the strip even if they were flying a boat with zero Sci BOFFs...
Comments
I might even go so far as to say it a science buff. :O
Yep not joking either.
People are running less resist skill which makes those silly little sci ships hurt more then they did before.
Also most sci are very good at AOE... and if you throw lots of AOE its easier to catch teams healing the wrong people at the wrong times... a few extra teams isn't as much extra healing as some people like to let on. Yes I have played a few games and yes it is more healing in the pug games no doubt... but I really don't think its more then a good premade... Its just dumbed down (mostly) to the level of average quer.
I only took my sci out once and there was no issues... my sci build seemed just as good as it did before the change... I swapped out to some more aoe style weapony though and the theory seemed to hold. If I for some crazy reason feel like playing STO more this weekend I'll test it out some more. I think the Sci spam AOE build that is in fact focusing someone you just don't really know who until the spike comes should be just as valid as it was 3 weeks ago.
Maybe so, but by it's very nature Star Trek sells itself more for the space aspect. Ground has a lot fewer problems than space, but it's biggest issue is the lack of ground PvPers in the first place.
Speaking of ground...need to get on Tribble and muck around with the kit revamp.
It's..... Surprisingly over complicated for how dumbed down the game feels anymore. In a way it's a kind of nerf. I haven't seen purple quality kit modules yet but greens are MUCH reduced in power compared to regular kits. The spire and embassy kits have their 5 slots but they seem layed out in such a way that you won't be able recreate those kits the way they are on holo deck now. Yet if you have them they aren't changing. Big difference between before kit revamp players and after. I don't think the passive bonus' will make up for the way the spire and embassy kits are set up now.
This could be a good thing except for those old players who have the old kits. Is it fair an older player can have a physicist kit with grav shift, fire, and sonic pulse and the post revamp player won't be able to make it because the research kit on the spire has 2 research module slots and those three powers are all research slots? Meh what do I know? It is still a work in progress and at the very least it will be interesting to see what people come up with for build setups.
OT I know hawk said somewhere here doffs are designed to bend the rules of the game but I rather prefer pvp without them and yea older then 6 months. When it came out it felt cool and kinda fun but now having proper doffs is essential. Remember when doffing was about commanding your crew?
Vanilla Ground PvP information
None class ought to be able to nullify another. None class ought to be independent.
I don't want to play Kirk's Online. Teamwork is the most fun aspect of the gameplay and those games that don't have it are total boredom. This change doesn't benefit pugs. Evil premades got even more sci team for their allies.
There victories and defeats. Premades shall roll pugs and nothing shall change it. I also have been in pug team against premade and we rolled them. There different games for the reason of being a pvp.
Yeah, none of you here,but majortiraomega, are dedicated sci players, so you don't really care.
Really, I got an excellent idea for a new Duty Officer. Chance to remove tactical buffs from attackers with eptx for example. Fair enough.
I see no attention to elachi weapon buff from players as well. Wonders if any of you have que'd recently without a premade. Shield ignore weapons are an abuse and they have to be nerfed.
Season 9 on it's way. Highly doubt it shall bring anything good to ground.
[Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.
In-game handle @Janetza
thats just a load of TRIBBLE and you know it. the fact that every tact will go sci team and not tss will prove it. count the sci teams in 1 premade.
3 sci =6 st 2 tacts =2 sci teams how many nukes will be in a premade? 3 sci =3 nukes.
tact says oh hey i just got nuked, sci says ill send a sci steam, tact says na i good dude i got my own. hit sci team while tt is up..............
face it sto pvp is more of a joke now then it was. it more geared to people that just want to spam space bar and watch tv while pvping or pveing. why do we even have buff icons now? we dont really need them at this point. we no longer need to really time anything.
I highly doubt you can see a max stealthed Romulan ship 17.5km out. You are probably using the Jem'hadar Deflector, Sensor Scan, and Emergency Power to Auxiliary III. That isn't reliable detection. Players may stealth every 12 seconds with Romulans, but counter stealth players may only detect them once every 90 seconds.
Really, it hasn't been nullified? Then how do you shut down a ship using EPtS + EPtE + Cleanse WCE with APO/APD + Conn Officer x2 + Aux2ID + Matter/Anti-Matter Specialist + Science Team + Romulan Battle Cloak? Good luck with it, Science is useless at the moment against anyone using such builds. If it were possible to kill with Science Vessels, then we wouldn't have everyone flying around in FAW Cruiser/Battle Cruiser/Scimitar builds, vaper Romulans, and speedy escorts. The only effective Science Vessels at the moment are the builds running in a healer capacity.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Warbirds have +55 more Stealth Value than non-Warbirds. That's just over 1km of additional Stealth.
Warbirds also suffer a debuff to Stealth based on their Singularity Level. At 5 pips, they get hit with -400 Stealth Value.
I play my sci plenty over the last 4 years I likely have a couple thousand hours in my scis. I played sci bob for likely 3-4 months worth of play time. (not months months Worth of play time). I think I understand sci just fine.
As for a boff that wipes tac debuffs... ya its called tac team. When tac team got its spin it screwed over tac in 2 ways....
1) it quadrupled shields which made tac buffs pointless and REQUIRED us to team with sci players much more then before. before that change no team ran more then one tac because they where far to squishy... after that change you could run perhaps 2 but more then that was a bad idea as well as tacs couldn't kill anything alone.
2) Tac team got pushed to 10s from 5s (every team used to be 5s clear). This means Attack pattern Beta is useless (even more now just like there are more sci teams there are now more tac teams)... it also wipes the debuffs from APD... and clears FOMM. Fire on my mark hasn't been all that useful for a couple years now.
This change is just not the swan song for sci many people are making it out to be... and I know that because I played sci long enough to know that... I only played my sci once or twice since the change because I have only been logged in once or twice.
When did sci team start restoring skills ?
I think you guys are all forgetting what sub nuke is for.
Do people die because they have a silly cool down debuff... or because they have 20 buffs stripped instantly ?
Does an attacking tactical really get messed up by the debuff or by having his captain powers removed ?
Nuke isn't about debuffs its about strips... last I checked there is nothing to be done about the strip.
If you where playing your sci revolving around trying to land some crazy 130 aux 40s cool down debuff your doing it wrong. The second you got in a match vs real players you would have had to adjust anyway. This change is good for scis it is premade training for pugs. lol Your debuff is going to be insta cleared likely just like in the big leagues. So figure out how to make it work anyway because the strip is the thing man.
edit: And regarding the SNB strip, that's a Sci captain - but that's not the same as saying Sci. They have access to the strip even if they were flying a boat with zero Sci BOFFs...