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Science Ships NEED this!
jackhavok21
Member Posts: 4 Arc User
So I have some downtime at work tonight; so I'm on my phone and I figured that I'd throw out an idea I had. I apologize for any typos ahead of time, and if this is in the wrong place I'm still newish.
I love the science portion of Star Trek, (who doesn't love Spock or Bones and EMH Doc). In the real world i work in the medical feild, and the thing i love about Trek is that they include it and make it interesting. So obviously I am going to roll a science toon.
That being said I have read a lot of complaints about science vessels deficiencies, and how supposedly this secondary deflector is supposed to even things out. If the Dyson is any indication of what they are going to be like I an highly doubting it.
I'm still new and I have a level 50 science officer that I love, however I have been running a tactical Romulan on the side, and I realize now that science vessels really need some kind of boost. I run a recon vesta on my science toon and I think it's great but my Warbird tears through enemies way easier. However I love the auxiliary cannons.
I hate that the science abilities don't do more damage but whatever. However my thought is this: make auxiliary weapon modifiers for all weapons. Before someone goes on a rant here's how I think they can be implemented.
1. Make them for every type of damage i.e. phaser, polaron, disruptor, ect.(except torpedos and reputation weapons) and every style of weapon beams, cannons and turrets. This doesn't mean all science vessels can equip canons but the ones that can have options to pick from.
2. Make them only usable by science vessels. This will hardly make us pump out massive amounts of damage since we have 1-2 less weapon slots, however it will free us up to do decent damage and still pump out science abilities.
3. Only make them available via dilithium or through fleet. That way non-science ships won't be annoyed to find random auxiliary weapons.
4. So as not to give without take, count the auxiliary bonus as a modifier to the weapon. For instance they would be at a minimum green quality to get the bonus and at blue it'd be something like: Aux Plasma Turret [dmg], and so forth. This makes it so they aren't too overpowered and some science captains might even opt out.
I think that is all the thoughts I have on that. I think it's a simple implementaion that would make more people open to using science ships without overpowering them. Feel free to add you thoughts, ideas, or criticisms. Thanks for your time.
I love the science portion of Star Trek, (who doesn't love Spock or Bones and EMH Doc). In the real world i work in the medical feild, and the thing i love about Trek is that they include it and make it interesting. So obviously I am going to roll a science toon.
That being said I have read a lot of complaints about science vessels deficiencies, and how supposedly this secondary deflector is supposed to even things out. If the Dyson is any indication of what they are going to be like I an highly doubting it.
I'm still new and I have a level 50 science officer that I love, however I have been running a tactical Romulan on the side, and I realize now that science vessels really need some kind of boost. I run a recon vesta on my science toon and I think it's great but my Warbird tears through enemies way easier. However I love the auxiliary cannons.
I hate that the science abilities don't do more damage but whatever. However my thought is this: make auxiliary weapon modifiers for all weapons. Before someone goes on a rant here's how I think they can be implemented.
1. Make them for every type of damage i.e. phaser, polaron, disruptor, ect.(except torpedos and reputation weapons) and every style of weapon beams, cannons and turrets. This doesn't mean all science vessels can equip canons but the ones that can have options to pick from.
2. Make them only usable by science vessels. This will hardly make us pump out massive amounts of damage since we have 1-2 less weapon slots, however it will free us up to do decent damage and still pump out science abilities.
3. Only make them available via dilithium or through fleet. That way non-science ships won't be annoyed to find random auxiliary weapons.
4. So as not to give without take, count the auxiliary bonus as a modifier to the weapon. For instance they would be at a minimum green quality to get the bonus and at blue it'd be something like: Aux Plasma Turret [dmg], and so forth. This makes it so they aren't too overpowered and some science captains might even opt out.
I think that is all the thoughts I have on that. I think it's a simple implementaion that would make more people open to using science ships without overpowering them. Feel free to add you thoughts, ideas, or criticisms. Thanks for your time.
Post edited by jackhavok21 on
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Comments
The changes to sensor analysis and the secondary deflectors will help achieve that. How effective this will ultimately turn out is yet to be determined... but they're generally good steps that further the role of science vessels.
My personal wishlist would lean into making science ships more science-y. There's ever the lure of causing more DPS, but I'm looking for something more ingrained in the perception of science ships being what they are: strong sensors, powerful computers and so forth.
One thing I'd like to see is faster interaction speeds. When you reach an objective and scan it with a science ship, it could go by significantly faster. Whereas a cruiser would've interracted and then been stopped midway by enemy ships spawning and attacking, a science ship might have been able to finish the task before being interrupted by weapons fire.
Another is greater sensor identification range. Presently, the game allows us to detect things within 30km and identify them at roughly 15km (from "Enemy" to "Negh'var battleship"). However, a science ship's sensors could achieve more and determine that, yes, that thing 27km away is a Negh'var battleship.
Finally, one idea I'd like to see would be to be able to see the power settings of a target. So, if you've an escort running 100/50/25/25 in its power systems, a science ship would know about it. This ties inn nicely with the innate subsystem targeting as it makes the Science ship captain able to make informed decision as what subsystem would hurt most if he struck it. It'd also be a viscerally visual guide as to the effectiveness of powers such as Tyken's Rift, Energy Siphon and Subsystem Targeting. It would make draining-based debuffs much less nebulous/far more tangible to see for a player.
Don't give me quantity with science ships. I'll leave that to escorts and the awesome firepower they can bring to bear. Give me quality: the ability to make informed decisiosn and precisely strike. This allows science ships a niche that will better have them stand on thier own, and also ably support any teams they are part of as well.
Theoretically speaking I feel think science abilities should make it so our ships can beat opponents in relatively the same time frame. Not that we dish or more damage, but we completely disable an opponent or find/create a weakness that let's us strike a killing blow.
Basically when I look at science ships I see them more as a rapier using a precision to strike at weaknesses, where as an escort is a giant battle ax that you just beat an enemy until they die, and cruiser is a fully armored knight that laughs when your attacks hit his Armor and shield then he stabs you with his sword. .
That being said even with a full compliment of auxiliary weapons we won't be equal to any escort equipped equivalently, we just lack the weapon slots (which is totally fine). I just feel that not having to worry about weapon power frees us up for other avenues.
Note that it would make purchasing a Vesta kinda moot. So i doubt they'll do it because of that. I do like the idea of all weapons use aux for science vessels. They could also have vendors that have all varieties of weapons that use aux. Include it as dil store purchase. But until they nerf tactical captains i don't think it should happen. You'll just create another flavor of the month for a Tac captain. So i have to say No to the idea as currently set forth.
Now this I disagree with. Not everyone is in a fleet and not everyone is willing to use dil for poor weapons, unless you mean through the rep stores. Also given normal weapons are drops aux should be too. Throw in the options for weapons on replays these could be added to them too.
I do think they need to bring more aux powered weapons for sci ships, that way we can use sci skills to the better as we can concentrate on upping aux instead of weapon power.
Dragon it wouldn't make purchasing the Vesta moot. It would open it up to more customisation instead of being stuck with phaser based DHCs. We could build our Vestas around antiproton, plasma, disruptor or what not builds for example.
On top of that your solution is a dps solution. Making all 3 captain types into dps monsters is not helping the game. It would be nice because the game is currently in a "dps = win" state and it needs to break out of that spiral. Adding a bandaid that helps in the short term (brings sci up a notch in the arms race) is a long term detriment to the game.
On top of that, are you fixing a non-issue? Sci may not be as potent as a skilled tac in a scimitar but good sci pilots do *plenty* of damage. I usually place 1-3 in CCE, for example, which is not saying much compared to the real dps guys but ---- these forums are full of elite players. I am starting to think that 85% or more of the players have pretty low damage and can be beaten by a good sci captain in a sci ship. If we want more than this, we can do it: pick a universal ltcmdr ship, poke a sci BO in that slot, and blast things with a dps build. A t3 GW is all anyone *needs* for a pew-pew build.
A "Science Ship"?
Star Trek had ships that were built without a lot of tactical amenities, sure, but the way STO represents ships generally is so distant from how they reasonably function, even on an abstract level, that the "Oh LOOKIE! Generic MMO Trinity IN SPACE!!!" comes across as arbitrary and superfluous, having even less value that none.
"Oh nu uh" I hear the detractors pudgy little fingers typing on their greasy keyboards, willfully denying Cryptic's catering content to all of the DPS piggies in their tiny little whinescorts and FAWqqcuisers.
"yeah, actually it is" silences their dissent.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
There's already some of that here, but its not like you think. Under the current design:
Tac buffs damage output and overwhelms the enemy's defenses, but has limited healing/buffing for defense. Tac is the tip-of-the-spear, sharp but easily broken.
Sci lowers the opponent's defenses, then uses "normal" damage to kill through the weakened state. Sci puts the opponent in a hold, drains their power, turns off their shields, and then kills with a feather. They have killing power, it just requires a combo to get there.
Engi buffs their own resists, then hunkers down and tanks your damage, and then tries to kill you after your attack powers are spent. Engi essentially works by taking advantage of the opponent's limited defenses. This doesnt actually work when the attackers can leave the fight at-will, but that's the design objective.
In that context, Sci does not need "damage buff" but rather they need to exploit the tools that are already available. One of the best things you can do is add Attack Pattern Beta to a sci ship loadout, since it further debuffs the enemy (not as functional vs a human who knows to use Tac Team to clear it). You do not have a Sci killing blow, you have a Sci combo.
[Actually, a disclaimer here, all of the above is in flux at the moment due to elimination of shared cooldowns on Team abilities. The game dynamic is changing at the moment, but the above descriptioin is where we are coming from.]
There might be no cookie (combat log proof) for draining someone's power or shields (and I would love it to be added), but man it is fun to do.