PvP future?!

gibbspt

Ok i was absent from the game for some time and got back...
edit: Notice that on point 9 its my opinion, everyone is free to have their own, thats what i would do
Basicly what i noticed is:
1- Shuttle arenas was a big flop... anyone plays there anymore?

2- Mixed arenas should be for all the arenas... not only the shuttles

3- Is there a point of still having a difference between aliances? fed vs klingon? thats a thing of the past... we should be able to team feds and klingons on the same team and go to the queues instead of having to make private matches...

4- Double tap... crytic you have removed it but you created a new form of vape... people still die in less than 1 or 2 seconds...

5- Faw... well as faw goes in queues 5 man faw team is dangerous and will do a lot of spike i agree, but in pre mades... if the limit of faw is 2 no big problem actually... easy countered...
But i agree that a 5 man faw team makes real damage...

6- Proton weapons... well if you make some... why not make all of them... and also make tactical consoles for it... and proton barrage needs to have a shared cooldown with beam overload... its like same thing a beam overload...(if doesnt have, havent tested it yet)...

7- Crytic should give more stuff to guys like drkfrontiers so that he can make tournys every mounth... if not every week... zen is a good incentive... but in other games that i played they do not give just teh equivelent of 10 € they give to each player the equivelent of 50 €...

8- Damage vs Healing, ok so i noticed that vapers appeared because people couldnt kill, well they actually could but lasyness followed by excuses didnt help too much, dual heavy cannons should have a boost in damage because beams are doing almost the same with the benefit of having a bigger width range 270º vs 45º ... even with rapid fire/scatter volley vs faw... faw wins... boost cannons so we can see more bugs in the queues instead of having to fight 3 vapers everytime in random pugging

9- Useless ensign slots, as far as i see in some ships it is simply useless to have that ensign tactical or ensign science, or even ensign engineer in some cases, why not boost that to lt comander slot or universal, examples:
(i will talk in Federation ships only since its the aliance i play more, klingons should make their opinion, romulans are op enough no need for change)
Fleet defiant - ensign tactical -> ensign universal
Fleet MVAE - ensign tactical -> ensign universal
Fleet dreadnought -> you made a change... ensign tactical - > ensign universal but you should have puted -> lt comander tactical instead... way more usefull
Fleet Heavy cruiser -> ensign tac -> lt com sci
Fleet Research Science Vessel Retrofit -> ensign sci -> ensign universal
Fleet Star Cruiser -> perfect
Fleet Reconnaissance Science Vessel (this is confusing actually) -> ok this ship is actually confusing, so 4 tac console slots but no lt com tac slot... ok so my layout change for this would be, chaneg almost everything, lt com tac, lt engi, ensing universal, Com sci, lt sci... seems fair for the ship...
Fleet Escort Retrofit... seems ok...
Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit -> seems ok to me
Fleet science vessel retrofit . > ensign science -> ensign universal
Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit - > Ensign engineer -> ensign universal
fleet Aquarius destroyer -> seems ok to me but a boost in turn rate would be good
Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier - > Ensign tactical - > ensign universal
Fleet long range science vessel Retrofit -> ensign science - > ensign unviersal, lt tac -> lt universal
Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit -> seems ok to me although i would prefer instead of ensign tactical a change form lt engi to lt com engi
Fleet Support Cruiser Retrofit -> ensign tac+lt universal-> lt com universal
Fleet Advanced heavy cruiser retrofit -> ensign engineer -> ensign universal or ensign engineer+lt engineer-> lt com engineer
Fleet Battle cruiser -> again the same ensign tactical+lt universal-> lt com universal
Fleet Chimera Heavy Destroyer -> seem ok to me
Fleet caitian Atrox carrier-> lt tac-> lt universal

From lock box ships the only change i would have made is:
Cardassian Galor is actually a console boost... it deserved the 4th tac slot...

therealmt

Keep deluding yourself. this game will never be PvP worthy, accept that.

Other then that, have fun spamming FaW, p2w, consoles, etc

lucho80

I vote no on rampant lt.cdr. slots being added left and right, specially universal ones. You just give every ship gravity well spamming or a2b capabilities and create more mess than we already have. You know what, what about trying to use subsystem targeting? I use it, and it actually works fine, it's just people in general have been trained to hate it.

wolverine595959

to the OP PB is actually more like CSV with a long CD.

You realize any changes to those ens slots would probably cause an overall nerf to the ship it is on. Usually a ship that is geared towards eng with ens eng thrown in will then be dropped down a little bit in turn so that it does not be come unbalanced if a universal is thrown in.

virusdancer

therealmt wrote: »

Keep deluding yourself. this game will never be PvP worthy, accept that.

I choose the former rather than the latter! Let the delusions flourish!

Er...but maybe later...back to grinding PvE for me...

(They go hand in hand, mind you - the longer I spend having to grind PvE - the longer Cryptic has to address things, perhaps a delusion in of itself - but it allows that delusion to flourish. Have to wonder if subconsciously that's why I deleted eight 50s at the end of last year and rolled seven new guys that I would have to grind up...hrmm.)

ussultimatum

gibbspt wrote: »

4- Double tap... crytic you have removed it but you created a new form of vape... people still die in less than 1 or 2 seconds...

This was a fun one though.

What the grumbling about double tap did, was show cryptic that players didn't need to buy their special one shot consoles.

Those consoles existed, but not many were using them.


So it got nerfed, and we've seen a few extra one-shot powers added to the game since then and these don't even require a 50+ million EC DOFF to make use of.




Enjoy.

therealmt

These individual problems all come down to the core of the game, everything is linked. Buff 1 thing, nerf 10 others. Nerd 1 thing, buff 20 others.

This game has nothing to control sh*t like FaW to get supper BOSTED because there are no mechanics to keep the game balanced by itself.

nebulgamnezar

gibbspt wrote: »

Ok i was absent from the game for some time and got back...
Basicly what i noticed is:
1- Shuttle arenas was a big flop... anyone plays there anymore?

2- Mixed arenas should be for all the arenas... not only the shuttles

3- Is there a point of still having a difference between aliances? fed vs klingon? thats a thing of the past... we should be able to team feds and klingons on the same team and go to the queues instead of having to make private matches...

4- Double tap... crytic you have removed it but you created a new form of vape... people still die in less than 1 or 2 seconds...

5- Faw... well as faw goes in queues 5 man faw team is dangerous and will do a lot of spike i agree, but in pre mades... if the limit of faw is 2 no big problem actually... easy countered...
But i agree that a 5 man faw team makes real damage...

6- Proton weapons... well if you make some... why not make all of them... and also make tactical consoles for it... and proton barrage needs to have a shared cooldown with beam overload... its like same thing a beam overload...(if doesnt have, havent tested it yet)...

7- Crytic should give more stuff to guys like drkfrontiers so that he can make tournys every mounth... if not every week... zen is a good incentive... but in other games that i played they do not give just teh equivelent of 10 € they give to each player the equivelent of 50 €...

8- Damage vs Healing, ok so i noticed that vapers appeared because people couldnt kill, well they actually could but lasyness followed by excuses didnt help too much, dual heavy cannons should have a boost in damage because beams are doing almost the same with the benefit of having a bigger width range 270º vs 45º ... even with rapid fire/scatter volley vs faw... faw wins... boost cannons so we can see more bugs in the queues instead of having to fight 3 vapers everytime in random pugging

9- Useless ensign slots, as far as i see in some ships it is simply useless to have that ensign tactical or ensign science, or even ensign engineer in some cases, why not boost that to lt comander slot or universal, examples:
(i will talk in Federation ships only since its the aliance i play more, klingons should make their opinion, romulans are op enough no need for change)


.

Jorge is right , but i lost the hope for a better STO and anyway star cityzen is comming soon !!!

ibuyevryship

nebulgamnezar wrote: »

jorge Is Right , But I Lost The Hope For A Better Sto And Anyway Star Cityzen Is Comming Soon !!!

+1

blahhdrey

I still have hope for a better STO. :P

Even so it's nice not to have all of the eggs in one basket, as it were.

rast1qq

I agree with your points, mostly with fleet boff stations...a lot fleet ships are unbalanced....but zelda is right with SC...this game is for RPs and casual....

aldo1raine

we Might as Well get Out while we can!

virusdancer

aldo1raine wrote: »

we Might as Well get Out while we can!

I played tabletop. Really enjoyed Crescent, MechCommand, MechWarrior 1-2 (&xpacs)...but they lost me with 3. Getting out - well, it just struck me as being more like the latter than the former so I never really...got out.

gibbspt

lucho80 wrote: »

I vote no on rampant lt.cdr. slots being added left and right, specially universal ones. You just give every ship gravity well spamming or a2b capabilities and create more mess than we already have. You know what, what about trying to use subsystem targeting? I use it, and it actually works fine, it's just people in general have been trained to hate it.

well it depends, because if they buff cannons that may not be the case, i would prefer things like engi team 3, EWP, sif, dem... and no a2b... it really depends how things go...

seansamurai1

There is no PvP future.
Not whilst the same old players are abusing the same old broken stuff to roflstomp as many people as they can.

Had my first and only match in weeks tonight, frankly is was the same old carp from the same players.

Keep abusing it people, you only have yourselves to blame when it inevitably all dies.

So Im out for a few more weeks.

gregkane

id even go more drastic-power creep is a big issue and due to mechanics of game and ec/dil people have spent i dont think they can remove many things BUT the rep systems-id remove all bonuses from these by all means have the rep systems in place for gear and content for pve guys but remove the buffs recieved from doing the reps also with the ships an easy solution is just make all ensigns uni so there wont be any a2b or gw spam added to game this would actually make me play my defiant again

adaephondelat

aldo1raine wrote: »

we Might as Well get Out while we can!

The game's mechanics and graphics are great, but MWO suffers from bad management decisions and a poor coding and design department. You have a community ****storm every month.

Everyone's waiting on some long-term content since a year or so (yeah, I mean CW). In April, they will *finally* add a lobby system. But at least it has something like gamplay balance.

grandpadxx

nebulgamnezar wrote: »

Jorge is right , but i lost the hope for a better STO and anyway star cityzen is comming soon !!!

Star C.. what ?? :rolleyes:

Dont give up Zelda,.. it not over now.

wolverine595959

seansamurai1 wrote: »

There is no PvP future.
Not whilst the same old players are abusing the same old broken stuff to roflstomp as many people as they can.

Had my first and only match in weeks tonight, frankly is was the same old carp from the same players.

Keep abusing it people, you only have yourselves to blame when it inevitably all dies.

So Im out for a few more weeks.

All that is left is the "broken" stuff as you put it. There are only a handful of powers that actually accomplish what they need to accomplish. Why would anyone throw rocks when shooting rockets is better? I mean it would be nice that Boarding Parties were useful they aren't, it would be nice the BTXS was viable but its not, it would be nice that PS or CPB were more useful but they are not, outside of most tac skills, there are limited number of sci and eng skills that useful. Why would I use aceton beam, why would an escort use EPtA. You complain because vet PvPers roll in with a M1A1 tank why the new pvpers are rolling with a Sherman tank and complaining that you are getting facerolled. The PvP community has spent actually time in game testing and trying to find viable builds outside the main stream but most are impotent and really quite silly in some degree. Place the blame at the feet of Cryptic not the community that has to adapt every time a metagme shift happens.

tehbubbaloo

imo its pretty obvious that pvp isnt going to get any better in sto.
iva already got my ship in star citizen and cant wait to transition.

seansamurai1

wolverine595959 wrote: »

All that is left is the "broken" stuff as you put it. There are only a handful of powers that actually accomplish what they need to accomplish. Why would anyone throw rocks when shooting rockets is better? I mean it would be nice that Boarding Parties were useful they aren't, it would be nice the BTXS was viable but its not, it would be nice that PS or CPB were more useful but they are not, outside of most tac skills, there are limited number of sci and eng skills that useful. Why would I use aceton beam, why would an escort use EPtA. You complain because vet PvPers roll in with a M1A1 tank why the new pvpers are rolling with a Sherman tank and complaining that you are getting facerolled. The PvP community has spent actually time in game testing and trying to find viable builds outside the main stream but most are impotent and really quite silly in some degree. Place the blame at the feet of Cryptic not the community that has to adapt every time a metagme shift happens.

I didn't start last week chap.

Using things like DOff enhanced scramble sensors, TIF, yardy yardy yar.
Funny how the same people will complain if it gets changed or something to combat it gets boosted.
Or how if it gets used against them effectively, it's broken/OP, even though they use it themselves.

Cryptic and PW are partly to blame yes. However, some of the blame sits squarely on the ones who take the twitchy mechanics to game breaking levels.

For an analogy.
Some countries allow you to own rifles, so you buy a rifle.
With ownership comes responsibility, you aren't going to use that rifle to shoot people (which is ultimately what a fire arm is made for).
You aren't going to use it in the street in public.
It will be used in a closed environment, ie a range.

Just because its there, it doesn't mean you have to abuse it.

wolverine595959

seansamurai1 wrote: »

I didn't start last week chap.

Using things like DOff enhanced scramble sensors, TIF, yardy yardy yar.
Funny how the same people will complain if it gets changed or something to combat it gets boosted.
Or how if it gets used against them effectively, it's broken/OP, even though they use it themselves.

Cryptic and PW are partly to blame yes. However, some of the blame sits squarely on the ones who take the twitchy mechanics to game breaking levels.

For an analogy.
Some countries allow you to own rifles, so you buy a rifle.
With ownership comes responsibility, you aren't going to use that rifle to shoot people (which is ultimately what a fire arm is made for).
You aren't going to use it in the street in public.
It will be used in a closed environment, ie a range.

Just because its there, it doesn't mean you have to abuse it.

Well "Chap" please go about using a useless build in your PvP runs and then run to the forums because your Boarding party build failed. PvP matches are won and loss on kills, that is fact there are only a handful of builds that stop kills and kill efficiently otherwise PvP matches would takes hours. So please just because you think shooting marshmallows should be as effective as shooting DHCs shows the fact that you are just as responsible for power creep in this game because you feel everyone should have equal chance of killing someone regardless of skill level and comprehension of the games system.

Your analogy is way off base. In this MMO we are give things and no where is there an expectation that since this is OP or that is OP or that so an so is using X therefore I have to use Y to bring myself down to their level to be "fair". Please go back to your utopia where you do not keep score and there are no losers.

virusdancer

deokkent wrote: »

Oh hell no, don't bring gun control laws into this or this whole thread will explode.

Just because we could easily make the thread explode...
...doesn't mean we have to.

In the end, one could go for the pyrrhic victory...loss after loss after loss. And although one can still have fun losing from time to time, losing all the time...? Meh...

Cryptic knows this.

PvP folks will grumble about everything and continue to buy/use it.
PvE DPS folks will eat everything up and ask for more.
Casual PvE folks...well, uh...ahem - nothing nice to say there.

seansamurai1

wolverine595959 wrote: »

Well "Chap" please go about using a useless build in your PvP runs and then run to the forums because your Boarding party build failed. PvP matches are won and loss on kills, that is fact there are only a handful of builds that stop kills and kill efficiently otherwise PvP matches would takes hours. So please just because you think shooting marshmallows should be as effective as shooting DHCs shows the fact that you are just as responsible for power creep in this game because you feel everyone should have equal chance of killing someone regardless of skill level and comprehension of the games system.

Your analogy is way off base. In this MMO we are give things and no where is there an expectation that since this is OP or that is OP or that so an so is using X therefore I have to use Y to bring myself down to their level to be "fair". Please go back to your utopia where you do not keep score and there are no losers.

Have you fought against or with me?

wolverine595959

seansamurai1 wrote: »

Have you fought against or with me?

odds are at some point of another, probably yes. Doesn't make your point any more valid. People complain about getting bet because in all gaming everyone has their skill level at X when in reality it is probably Z. Are there some goofy things in this game yes. But there are things in this game that are over the top because there are other things over the top. Right now spike damage is king because resists are so high. If you raise resists you you have raise debuffs which damage takes advantage of debuffs. The window damage has to be done is small you no longer have ships limping around at 50% either they die or they are back to 100%

wolverine595959

deokkent wrote: »

I won't let it happen either way. I'd be the first one to tattle tale to mods hahaha. :P



Man that's some dark stuff right there.



Casual pve folks are having the most fun lol. They're loving sto. I'm practically jealous of them. Seriously, I think they're the only folks that can still get excited by this game's content.

An increasing amount of pve folks, this includes average players, are starting to see issues in the game mechanics. They're also feeling the blues, much like pvp folks. It's nice to experience god mode for a couple of weeks but eventually 4-6min stfs become dull. PvE is dull for me and I haven't even crossed the 10k dps threshold yet. Why should I? The game is catered to people that do 3k~4k dps.

I have a fleet patrol, all cannons, that does 8k dps (this is a s6 build) on average last time I tested it (3 or 4 months ago). Pretty average I think. Pugged cse with it, and I can't remember the last time I failed cse. I can't remember anybody yelling at anyone for blowing stuff up too early. It's funny actually. You now see people complain about scimitars that melt everything before everyone else gets a chance to shoot lol lol .

That's how crazy the current state of the game is. Anyways, sorry if I'm preaching to the choir a little.

I probably will never build a high DPS PvE build whats the point. it usually fails in PvP and I hate switching load outs. I can solo cubes I can solo tac cubes, I can almost solo Donatra but really who cares. DPS builds are nothing more than ego stokes when it comes to PvE considering that most "hard" targets are running 0 to -15 defense. Even in PvP the numbers are useless is escort has 1.5million in damage and a faw cruiser has 2 million whose DPS is more significant especially if the escort was hitting for 70K crits every alpha.

marc8219

I agree with proton barrage and BO needing shared cooldown, I would go further and also make tetryon lattice, tetryon cascade, and isometric charge all starting 15 sec cooldowns on BO and on each other. Tacs should be killing with weapons, this new trend of using set abilities and consoles is lame. If weapons can't get the job done then healing and resists need to be fixed, not cramming more clicky abilities in to kill anyway.

wolverine595959

marc8219 wrote: »

I agree with proton barrage and BO needing shared cooldown, I would go further and also make tetryon lattice, tetryon cascade, and isometric charge all starting 15 sec cooldowns on BO and on each other. Tacs should be killing with weapons, this new trend of using set abilities and consoles is lame. If weapons can't get the job done then healing and resists need to be fixed, not cramming more clicky abilities in to kill anyway.

You do realize PB has like a 2 min CD. It is not nearly as bad as ISO. My parser puts my PB on par with my Casc Tet, lets not go into a Weapon Officer Buffed BO with experimental Proton weapon. My AP DBB crits consistently for 60-70K my PB 12K

marc8219

wolverine595959 wrote: »

You do realize PB has like a 2 min CD. It is not nearly as bad as ISO. My parser puts my PB on par with my Casc Tet, lets not go into a Weapon Officer Buffed BO with experimental Proton weapon. My AP DBB crits consistently for 60-70K my PB 12K

Its using it in combination that becomes really op, I see people using BO, ISO, cascade, and lattice or PB together to do an alpha, its really lame tactics and I doubt the devs were thinking of people abusing this together. I also still regularly crit with BO3 for 60k + on my KDF BOP, using all this other stuff with it shouldn't be necessary. I do see some people do a lot more then that with PB though, I think 90k sometimes.

wolverine595959

marc8219 wrote: »

Its using it in combination that becomes really op, I see people using BO, ISO, cascade, and lattice or PB together to do an alpha, its really lame tactics and I doubt the devs were thinking of people abusing this together. I also still regularly crit with BO3 for 60k + on my KDF BOP, using all this other stuff with it shouldn't be necessary. I do see some people do a lot more then that with PB though, I think 90k sometimes.

To get PB to crit consistently that high you are nerfing all your other damage. TO boost PB you have to slot dyson consoles that only buff other damage by 15%. I guess we better put TS3 on CD with BOL because using TS never misses.

marc8219

wolverine595959 wrote: »

To get PB to crit consistently that high you are nerfing all your other damage. TO boost PB you have to slot dyson consoles that only buff other damage by 15%. I guess we better put TS3 on CD with BOL because using TS never misses.

I don't think torps are all that powerful now compared to the other stuff because it still needs downed shield facings, its using all those other energy and particle attacks at the same time that is OP. Its a really lame trend in PVP, makes anyone capable of alpha strikes without learning how to properly BO then land torps. I understand you might not want your new toy nerfed, but think about PVP as a whole and not just yourself, I played around with some of them too, but stilll see a need to not let them all be used at once . If resists are too high for you to overcome in other ways then that is what needs to be balanced, not making more OP attacks.