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Boff's are pretty inept, just look at their never-improving ability slots for proof.

projectfrontierprojectfrontier Member Posts: 0 Arc User
The title sets the topic: "Boff's are pretty inept, just look at their never-improving ability slots for proof."

An ensign boff has 1 slot for space powers and 1 slot for ground powers. These slots are "ensign grade." As the boff increases in rank these first slots, as those that will follow, will never improve.

You may not noticed this on the ground, as Boffs can use all of their powers then. But in space the story is different; in space, no matter how hard the boff tries it will only ever be as powerful as its station allows for which means a Commander is as valuable as an Ensign if that is the only seat available for it - and this impedes the "meta-game" specific to how powers and game-play experience mingle which is a huge contributing factor to why certain powers are favored and others generally ignored.

PROPOSAL: To overcome the meta-game impedance mentioned above, turn all boff powers into "level-less" abilities which are as effective as the boffs current rank allows for and allow for those powers to be trained in whatever slot the player chooses.

Discuss.
Post edited by projectfrontier on

Comments

  • kolbrandrkolbrandr Member Posts: 266
    edited March 2014
    No thank you. Thanks for the thread.
  • aloishammeraloishammer Member Posts: 3,294 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    ...because we're running short on power creep? What the frell?
  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The title sets the topic: "Boff's are pretty inept, just look at their never-improving ability slots for proof."

    An ensign boff has 1 slot for space powers and 1 slot for ground powers. These slots are "ensign grade." As the boff increases in rank these first slots, as those that will follow, will never improve.

    You may not noticed this on the ground, as Boffs can use all of their powers then. But in space the story is different; in space, no matter how hard the boff tries it will only ever be as powerful as its station allows for which means a Commander is as valuable as an Ensign if that is the only seat available for it - and this impedes the "meta-game" specific to how powers and game-play experience mingle which is a huge contributing factor to why certain powers are favored and others generally ignored.

    PROPOSAL: To overcome the meta-game impedance mentioned above, turn all boff powers into "level-less" abilities which are as effective as the boffs current rank allows for and allow for those powers to be trained in whatever slot the player chooses.

    Discuss.

    Too much power creep.

    However, I could see an argument for slightly improving cooldowns if a higher ranked officer was sat in a lower rank seat.

    Say, an Lt in an ensign seat get a 2 sec CD reduction, a LCmdr a 3 second one and a commander 4 seconds.
  • projectfrontierprojectfrontier Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    ...because we're running short on power creep? What the frell?

    Validate your inferred claim with numbers.
    rinkster wrote: »
    Too much power creep.

    However, I could see an argument for slightly improving cooldowns if a higher ranked officer was sat in a lower rank seat.

    Say, an Lt in an ensign seat get a 2 sec CD reduction, a LCmdr a 3 second one and a commander 4 seconds.

    Please demonstrate how it would be "power creep" using examples, with actual numbers.
    skollulfr wrote: »
    this can only work with integrated costs, that way every large boost has a proportional cost.
    as it is now, it would just go crazy.

    Explain "integrated costs" within context with examples and justify why it would "go crazy", with actual numbers.
  • mewmaster101mewmaster101 Member Posts: 1,239 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    No more power creep, case closed.
  • bumperthumperbumperthumper Member Posts: 513 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    This is one of those things that makes sense on paper, but not in execution.

    If an entire Boff revamp power is going to continue, then I would support this. However, it's sooo easy to level your Boffs. The EXP for them would have to be on a crazy curve to promote them to higher tiers.
    A proud member of The Collective ARMADA
    NOT A FAN OF ARC!
  • mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    lolgamedesign

    Joined January 2009
    Finger wrote:
    Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
  • aloishammeraloishammer Member Posts: 3,294 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Validate your inferred claim with numbers.

    Please demonstrate how it would be "power creep" using examples, with actual numbers.

    Explain "integrated costs" within context with examples and justify why it would "go crazy", with actual numbers.

    You say we need this and it would help, before you get to challenge everyone else's assertions how about validating, demonstrating, and explaining your own within context with examples and justifying it with actual numbers.

    TL;DR: After you. :rolleyes:
  • projectfrontierprojectfrontier Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    No more power creep, case closed.

    Cryptic LOVES power creep - it is how they get you to shell out money, did you miss that memo?
    This is one of those things that makes sense on paper, but not in execution.

    If an entire Boff revamp power is going to continue, then I would support this. However, it's sooo easy to level your Boffs. The EXP for them would have to be on a crazy curve to promote them to higher tiers.

    You are being overly vague, which part is the issue and why?
    lolgamedesign

    -_-
    You say we need this and it would help, before you get to challenge everyone else's assertions how about validating, demonstrating, and explaining your own within context with examples and justifying it with actual numbers.

    TL;DR: After you. :rolleyes:

    Causally linked justification is provided within the original post alongside contextual associations, which means I have fulfilled my obligation before any of you showed up, therefore I may challenge at my leisure and you can either put up or shut up.

    TL;DR: Post something relevant to the topic after reading it completely or leave.
  • mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    PROPOSAL: To overcome the meta-game impedance mentioned above, turn all boff powers into "level-less" abilities which are as effective as the boffs current rank allows for and allow for those powers to be trained in whatever slot the player chooses.

    Discuss.

    Translation: I want to have Rank IV abilities for all my station seats. You're not actually asking for level-less abilities, you're just moving the level from the ability itself to the Boff sitting in the chair which in effect ensures that every ability will be Rank III, or rather Rank IV since Boffs have 4 levels of promotions.

    This is power creep pure and simple. There's a reason that stations have limits and that's because having 12 Rank III abilities would be insanely OP. The concept is interesting on paper but they would have to rebalance all of the game content for this; all ships, all enemies, all player hulls--all of it. Or they would have to rebalance all of the powers (including major nerfs) instead of the HP and damage of all NPCs and the HP of all player hulls. What you're asking for is not a small change. You're basically saying "redesign the game's combat." Maybe it would actually work better than the current system but it's unrealistic to make such a request because they don't have the resources for it.

    Joined January 2009
    Finger wrote:
    Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
  • aloishammeraloishammer Member Posts: 3,294 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Causally linked justification is provided within the original post alongside contextual associations, which means I have fulfilled my obligation before any of you showed up, therefore I may challenge at my leisure and you can either put up or shut up.

    Having re-read the OP 4 times, your entire rationale appears to boil down to "Because ah think it wud be kewl."

    Based on that, no response you have received is anything less than both on-topic and on target. Your not liking the responses because they're not cheering your self-perceived genius means you don't like them, and nothing else. Sorry about reality refusing to bend to your will, but that's how these things go sometimes.
  • bumperthumperbumperthumper Member Posts: 513 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    This is one of those things that makes sense on paper, but not in execution.

    If an entire Boff revamp power is going to continue, then I would support this. However, it's sooo easy to level your Boffs. The EXP for them would have to be on a crazy curve to promote them to higher tiers.
    You are being overly vague, which part is the issue and why?

    An explanation is here. They are currently revamping the Boff system in space, but want to keep it to a minimal for now. It's a wait-and-see kind of thing.

    I sincerely hope it works in the long-run. We could use Boff changes, but they need to be done in the fashion that wouldn't completely shock everybody's builds/specs into a seizure.
    A proud member of The Collective ARMADA
    NOT A FAN OF ARC!
  • carasucia83carasucia83 Member Posts: 559 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Was going to reply. Changed my mind...
    Everything in this game is free and all you have to do to get it is play the game for a bit.

    If you have a multitude of characters to get the stuffz for, or can't wait to gather the dilithium to exchange for zen - FOR FREE - that's your business and not really Cryptic's problem.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    <snip>

    I know we don't always agree Alois, but DAMN do I love your new signature quote.



    Anyways, no thank you to the idea, power creep, pure and simple. I notice that seems to be a trend with the OP's threads.

    There is a REASON for BOFFs being the way they are. Changing that will MAJORLY alter the game, and not in a good way.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • moonshadowdarkmoonshadowdark Member Posts: 1,899 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The Bridge crew is only as good as their captain. So if they suck, it's probably your fault.
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  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,932 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Translation: I want to have Rank IV abilities for all my station seats. You're not actually asking for level-less abilities, you're just moving the level from the ability itself to the Boff sitting in the chair which in effect ensures that every ability will be Rank III, or rather Rank IV since Boffs have 4 levels of promotions.

    This is power creep pure and simple. There's a reason that stations have limits and that's because having 12 Rank III abilities would be insanely OP. The concept is interesting on paper but they would have to rebalance all of the game content for this; all ships, all enemies, all player hulls--all of it. Or they would have to rebalance all of the powers (including major nerfs) instead of the HP and damage of all NPCs and the HP of all player hulls. What you're asking for is not a small change. You're basically saying "redesign the game's combat." Maybe it would actually work better than the current system but it's unrealistic to make such a request because they don't have the resources for it.

    Especially if you consider that we don't actually have lower rank boffs. The majority of regular players in STO has a big number of end-level toons with 14 or more commanders on board their ship. Lore-wise it doesn't make any sense, but in-game it's just a fact that nearly everybody you encounter maxed out everything, the content prior to lvl 50 endgame is just singleplayer tutorial lulz.

    That means everybody having III and IV abilities would become the new standart, the gameplay had to change accordingly and at the end of the day nothing would change. And if the gameplay wouldn't adapt (which would be the case since... Cryptic doesn't do that) it would be ridiculous power creep, as you said.

    OP: I vote for no.
    lFC4bt2.gif
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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,825 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    skollulfr wrote: »
    this can only work with integrated costs, that way every large boost has a proportional cost.
    as it is now, it would just go crazy.

    that would not be wise anyway. p2w power TRIBBLE.. err creep ftw! otherwise.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • timelord79timelord79 Member Posts: 1,852 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Since we can't have 5 Boffs on our ship with Commander level powers available for all of thgem in the game's current state which would kill a big part of shipy type distinction btw you'd have to limit the promotions of your boffs in some way.

    For example: Only allow a single Commander as first Officer, then up to 2 LC, up to 3 Lt and up to 5 ensigns on any ship.
    To prevent someone from slotting 5 tactical officers you'd have to limit them to a specific number of departments per ship type and then you are exactly where you started from.
    11750640_1051211588222593_450219911807924697_n.jpg
  • aloishammeraloishammer Member Posts: 3,294 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    mimey2 wrote: »
    I know we don't always agree Alois,

    Nothing wrong with that, forums full of always-agreeing yes-men are dull at extreme, optimistic best. (And realistically, more like original-Stepford-Wives creepy on the rare good day and it goes downhill from there.)
    but DAMN do I love your new signature quote.

    :D

    Ron's good for those.
  • erei1erei1 Member Posts: 4,081 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I also want to use GW3 on my ensign science, and APB3 on a galaxy. But you don't need a genius to see how bad that would be.
    Abilities are not ignored because we don't have the station for them. They are ignored because they are either bad, situational, or you have better. For example, most sci use GW3 on a commander slot, because it's arguably the most powerful sci ability at this level, the other are situational at best. And this change would make things even worse. Do you think we would use more attack pattern delta, tachyon beam and boarding party, or more attack pattern beta, GW and DEM ?
    If you think ensign station are useless you are wrong. There are a lot of good abilities for ensign station. Like TT, HE, polarize hull or EPTX. And with the change on the team, we now have ST and ET.
    Validate your inferred claim with numbers.
    You ask for numbers, when you provide none. And yet, you are the one that want to changes the gameplay. You should be the one providing numbers and proofs.
    But we both know you can't.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Nothing wrong with that, forums full of always-agreeing yes-men are dull at extreme, optimistic best. (And realistically, more like original-Stepford-Wives creepy on the rare good day and it goes downhill from there.)

    :D

    Ron's good for those.

    Yeah no kidding there. But funny enough that seems to be what the OP wants in the first place: Bunch of people automatically agreeing with him on his ideas without question.

    Though, good or bad, these forums are pretty tame to some of the stuff out there.

    Heh, indeed about Ron. I remember the joke he was saying when he made that line too.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • otowiotowi Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I can understand where the OP comes from.

    But as others have said, nice on paper, but very hard to implement without it being OP as heck.

    Sure, I would love to have more BO powers on my new TOS toon, just to make my life easier in flying the TOS Connie to end game, but it will have to remain a pipe dream. Sure, being able to have HYT I, and BFAW I would be nice with the TOS Connie, and so would EPTS I and EPTW I, but having that would make the ship OP game wise.

    So OP, nice idea and all, but not really feasible right now.

    Now, with the BO revamp comming, this might change, but I would not bet on it...
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