Quite enjoying this, though Science Team is still outclassed by Transfer Shield Strength for most PvE purposes - the only real science debuffs ST can clear (not Viral Matrix) is Jam/Scramble Sensors, and those are rarely seen (and I pick NPC sciships as priority targets). If it cleared VM I'd find it more useful, personally, but since a direct hull heal is amazingly useful, I'll stick with ET and TSS2.
I know I may be a minority, but most/all of my characters use TT to clear boarding parties and rebalance shields and very little else. Merging ET with shield rebalancing would be sort of useless, IMO, since ET is a big hull heal, which isn't very helpful if you have full hull, full 3/4 shield facings and one depleted shield facing taking damage.
Perhaps merging the shield balance with Sciteam, since managing shields is apparently science's domain?
Quite enjoying this, though Science Team is still outclassed by Transfer Shield Strength for most PvE purposes - the only real science debuffs ST can clear (not Viral Matrix) is Jam/Scramble Sensors, and those are rarely seen (and I pick NPC sciships as priority targets).
If you are looking for it, find a place to fight Hirogen and they will practically spam you with it. The Apex battelship uses it to blind you then they call in their holographic backups. The Apex and the Hunter escort NPCs both spam subnuc and even VM (lesser amount). Mean little buggers.
Crew is silly right now. We could pretty much pull it out of the game, buff everyone's out-of-combat regeneration, and nobody would notice. It's on our short list of orphaned powers features. If anyone feels strongly that it should be left in the game, I'd be interested in hearing what you wish it did.
Taking it out would be a nerf to Feds w/Human buffs and their resists to subsystem disables? Not to imply it doesn't need work, just that it's not nothing.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
If you are looking for it, find a place to fight Hirogen and they will practically spam you with it. The Apex battelship uses it to blind you then they call in their holographic backups. The Apex and the Hunter escort NPCs both spam subnuc and even VM (lesser amount). Mean little buggers.
Ooh, touche. The Breen Chel grett cruisers cruisers also use subnuc. Still though, I mostly play STFs & fleet alerts, and none of the factions there are really an issue. I suspect the Voth also apply some of those nasty debuffs, but they're not seen outside of Dyson STFs.
Still though... ST removes those debuffs, but for most purposes, it's outclassed by TSS.
Guys, seriously: think about it.
If this thing will be introduced, the game will die.
Recently things have changed a lot:
1 - Beams became stronger than cannons (with a better fire arc too -_-)
2 - Cruisers became stronger due to A2B builds (now is Cruiser Trek Online)
and now devs are thinkin about this ?
NO WAY.
Please, don't be so stupid.
If "Team" Skills CD will be separated, every, EVERY ship would have the same DOffs Layout:
1 - A2B Build
2 - 2x CO (TT), 2x DCE (ET) and 2x DLS (ST).
This will really end the game.
Please devs, don't do this.
Guys, seriously: think about it.
If this thing will be introduced, the game will die.
Recently things have changed a lot:
1 - Beams became stronger than cannons (with a better fire arc too -_-)
2 - Cruisers became stronger due to A2B builds (now is Cruiser Trek Online)
and now devs are thinkin about this ?
NO WAY.
Please, don't be so stupid.
If "Team" Skills CD will be separated, every, EVERY ship would have the same DOffs Layout:
1 - A2B Build
2 - 2x CO (TT), 2x DCE (ET) and 2x DLS (ST).
This will really end the game.
Please devs, don't do this.
The greatest thing I've seen from this... A2B ships are now much tankier thanks to the ability to run ET and ST every 15 seconds.
Yeah, great plan and all... not like A2B wasn't severely broken enough already.
Except aux2bat isn't the end all of builds. It's a simpleton's cookie cutter build, and like all simpleton cookie cutter builds, is not the most awesomest DPS-y build ever.
It also gets hit over the head with a rake until it breaks and bent over whenever it encounters a science captain with subnuke. IE, every. single. science captain past level 8.
Guys, seriously: think about it.
If this thing will be introduced, the game will die.
Recently things have changed a lot:
1 - Beams became stronger than cannons (with a better fire arc too -_-)
2 - Cruisers became stronger due to A2B builds (now is Cruiser Trek Online)
and now devs are thinkin about this ?
NO WAY.
Please, don't be so stupid.
If "Team" Skills CD will be separated, every, EVERY ship would have the same DOffs Layout:
1 - A2B Build
2 - 2x CO (TT), 2x DCE (ET) and 2x DLS (ST).
This will really end the game.
Please devs, don't do this.
Beams are not better than cannons. You need to get your head checked or learn how to use them.
Cruisers were ALWAYS meant to be the strongest ships (tanks) and highest DPS (total) but not very effective at killing targets quickly. That's what escorts do best.
Just like escorts are the only ships that can run dual TT and dual OMEGA plus have weapon buff abilities , cruisers get A2B and sci ships get... well, nothing since sci is borked beyond belief.
Here's another eye opener for you: Escorts now can easily load:
2x TT, 2x Omega plus their weapon buffs
hazard 1, sci team 2
eng team 1, a2b
and that alone keeps their shields and hull perma-healed PLUS immune to all forms of snares and timers are reduced perfectly in sync with cycling of TT+omega.
Cruisers cant do that. Sci ships cant do that.
The ONLY reason cruisers now come on top is because the game became an idiotic AOE spamfest where there are ZERO tactics involved and ZERO teamwork involved. For spamfest of damage the FAW cycling plus a2b does in the end much more damage than cannon boats...
why? Because FAW'ing a group of spheres for example has them being hit in all shields (spheres rotate) and then the hull...that means the cruiser adds all that up in their dps-meters.
A cannon boat on the other hand, hits that group of spheres so hard with cannons that they only lose one shield facing and their hull is promptly thumped. Total dps of this is LOWER than the FAW beam boat...but the escort kills the same number of spheres in half the time.
Case in point: Pick out one sphere in ESTF Infected. When flying your a2b cruiser giving that sphere all the damage you got, see how long it takes you to kill it. Hint: you'll be hitting it for nearly a minute.
Now get an escort.. with a single strafing run of a well-built cannon ship it will DIE. In ~10 seconds.
Except aux2bat isn't the end all of builds. It's a simpleton's cookie cutter build, and like all simpleton cookie cutter builds, is not the most awesomest DPS-y build ever.
It also gets hit over the head with a rake until it breaks and bent over whenever it encounters a science captain with subnuke. IE, every. single. science captain past level 8.
Beams are not better than cannons. You need to get your head checked or learn how to use them.
Cruisers were ALWAYS meant to be the strongest ships (tanks) and highest DPS (total) but not very effective at killing targets quickly. That's what escorts do best.
Just like escorts are the only ships that can run dual TT and dual OMEGA plus have weapon buff abilities , cruisers get A2B and sci ships get... well, nothing since sci is borked beyond belief.
Here's another eye opener for you: Escorts now can easily load:
2x TT, 2x Omega plus their weapon buffs
hazard 1, sci team 2
eng team 1, a2b
and that alone keeps their shields and hull perma-healed PLUS immune to all forms of snares and timers are reduced perfectly in sync with cycling of TT+omega.
Cruisers cant do that. Sci ships cant do that.
The ONLY reason cruisers now come on top is because the game became an idiotic AOE spamfest where there are ZERO tactics involved and ZERO teamwork involved. For spamfest of damage the FAW cycling plus a2b does in the end much more damage than cannon boats...
why? Because FAW'ing a group of spheres for example has them being hit in all shields (spheres rotate) and then the hull...that means the cruiser adds all that up in their dps-meters.
A cannon boat on the other hand, hits that group of spheres so hard with cannons that they only lose one shield facing and their hull is promptly thumped. Total dps of this is LOWER than the FAW beam boat...but the escort kills the same number of spheres in half the time.
Case in point: Pick out one sphere in ESTF Infected. When flying your a2b cruiser giving that sphere all the damage you got, see how long it takes you to kill it. Hint: you'll be hitting it for nearly a minute.
Now get an escort.. with a single strafing run of a well-built cannon ship it will DIE. In ~10 seconds.
yeah, do tell this to the one that killed a gateway in 45s with his beam scimitar o.O
I need at least 2 mins to kill a gateway with my cannon Ha'Feh.
Beams have become stronger than cannons, you are the only one who don't won't to admit it.
I saw a beam scimitar kill a group of spheres before i killed 1.
ALSO: lets consider the PVP.
Almost any good PVP ship has an hangar bay: cannon boats are quite defenseless against fighter pets.
but beam boats are perfect for this.
and guess: cruisers are beam boats, escorts are cannon boats.
Tanks are quite unkillable by a single ship, and with this "enhancement" they will become even more unkillable.
yeah, do tell this to the one that killed a gateway in 45s with his beam scimitar o.O
I need at least 2 mins to kill a gateway with my cannon Ha'Feh.
Beams have become stronger than cannons, you are the only one who don't won't to admit it.
I saw a beam scimitar kill a group of spheres before i killed 1.
ALSO: lets consider the PVP.
Almost any good PVP ship has an hangar bay: cannon boats are quite defenseless against fighter pets.
but beam boats are perfect for this.
and guess: cruisers are beam boats, escorts are cannon boats.
Tanks are quite unkillable by a single ship, and with this "enhancement" they will become even more unkillable.
and guess: cruisers are tanks, escorts no.
Do I need to continue ?
Why does it take you two minutes to down a gateway in a Romulan ship? My CANNON Scimitar/Ha'feh can do it in a minute easy. It's not that hard. You just need to have at least 20k DPS potential, and boom, you'll down it.
Cannons will always burst harder for longer than beams. Yes, beams have a much higher SUSTAINED (as in over the whole bloody mission) damage, but when it comes down to damage per combat cycle, cannons are still higher.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
yeah, do tell this to the one that killed a gateway in 45s with his beam scimitar o.O
I need at least 2 mins to kill a gateway with my cannon Ha'Feh.
Beams have become stronger than cannons, you are the only one who don't won't to admit it.
I saw a beam scimitar kill a group of spheres before i killed 1.
ALSO: lets consider the PVP.
Almost any good PVP ship has an hangar bay: cannon boats are quite defenseless against fighter pets.
but beam boats are perfect for this.
and guess: cruisers are beam boats, escorts are cannon boats.
Tanks are quite unkillable by a single ship, and with this "enhancement" they will become even more unkillable.
and guess: cruisers are tanks, escorts no.
Do I need to continue ?
The first part of your post basically reads "I cannot match the most OP ship in the game while it uses beams while I use a ship that is anything but OP with cannons therefore beams are better than cannons." Is that about right? LOL Puuuleeeeeaaasee
A Cannon Scimitar is far more deadly and terrifying than some Beam: Fail At Will Scimitar. Sure any Scimitar with a good setup is going to be outrageously deadly and the Fail boat WILL generate higher DPS numbers but its bursts will be laughable by comparison and it is burst damage that really kills in PvP AND PvE.
Next... Cannon boats are defenseless against fighters? Maybe yours are... I do not even really need to justify that with a real response but honestly there are plenty of ways to deal with fighters as a Cannon boat. However, you should not even waste your time killing the fighters when you could instead drop an Alpha on the ship spawning them and just turn it into dust.
So long as they keep moving Escorts can tank pretty much as good as any Cruiser and if you are a Cruiser with an Engineering Captain set up for maximum Tank then there is no point in targeting you to begin with. Why? Because your damage output is going to be miniscule that you are not a threat and just a waste of time. For those ships that now get the new Threat Aura at least they can be good in PvE finally which is awesome but in PvP they are still fairly pointless.
its not always possible to kill a ship with a single alpha strike.
and runabouts/slavers are a real treat for a cannon boat ... so you first have to kill those nasty hangar pets, than the carrier that spawned them... unless you prefer kill the carrier with your Aft Turrets.
There is APO of course, but it has 40s CD and its not always available.
while a beam boat can use FAW and problem solved.
ALSO: may I remind you that A2B Builds were OP ?
well, do you know what was their only weakness ?
the lack of hull healing abilities -_-
and guess: now they have an OP hull healing ability.
Making what is OP even more OP, yeah ... that's the way.
Congrats Devs
The first part of your post basically reads "I cannot match the most OP ship in the game while it uses beams while I use a ship that is anything but OP with cannons therefore beams are better than cannons." Is that about right? LOL Puuuleeeeeaaasee
A Cannon Scimitar is far more deadly and terrifying than some Beam: Fail At Will Scimitar. Sure any Scimitar with a good setup is going to be outrageously deadly and the Fail boat WILL generate higher DPS numbers but its bursts will be laughable by comparison and it is burst damage that really kills in PvP AND PvE.
Next... Cannon boats are defenseless against fighters? Maybe yours are... I do not even really need to justify that with a real response but honestly there are plenty of ways to deal with fighters as a Cannon boat. However, you should not even waste your time killing the fighters when you could instead drop an Alpha on the ship spawning them and just turn it into dust.
So long as they keep moving Escorts can tank pretty much as good as any Cruiser and if you are a Cruiser with an Engineering Captain set up for maximum Tank then there is no point in targeting you to begin with. Why? Because your damage output is going to be miniscule that you are not a threat and just a waste of time. For those ships that now get the new Threat Aura at least they can be good in PvE finally which is awesome but in PvP they are still fairly pointless.
PS: oh, my ship is not OP like the scimitar, but its a good ship.
or, at least, it is the ship I like ...
I think the Fleet Ha'Feh is one of the best ship in the game.
Its only weakness is that its not a cruiser in Cruiser Trek Online -_-
Do you still think this is not Cruiser Trek Online ?
And now cruisers with their A2B OP Build are even stronger, thanks to the devs and their great ideas ... Engineering Team was right what an A2B Build needed, thanks devs -_-
But you know what ?
I got an A2B Fleet Mogh: I don't like it, but Devs are doing all they can to force me to use it.
So ok, lets use this fu**ed fleet mogh -_-
I think resists need an overhaul. First of all, negative resists are overpowered. I don't think it should amplify damage, rather, just make it create a deficit of resistance overcome before a positive resistance can occur. The target will have an effective resistance rating of 0% and must have more resistance than the deficit before seeing a positive resistance.
Example:
Ship A applies a resistance debuff of -50% to Ship B, which has a 30% resistance to all.
Ship B now negates the first 20% of its resistance, but has an effective resistance of 0%.
Ship B activates Polarize Hull III which gives +61 resistance magnitude resulting in a positive 8.7% resistance.
Without PH granting more resistance magnitude, Ship A does 100% of its damage to Ship B (if it doesn't miss), but no more than that. This would eliminate excessive stacking of resist debuffs because it caps out at 0% resistance.
Second, alloy consoles (e.g. neutronium alloy). I recommend alloys providing a bonus to max hull health instead of resistance. Plating and armor would still grant resistance the same as before, so you can reinforce your hull and/or increase resistance to specific damage.
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The change we're testing de-couples sensor analysis from your hard target. It lets you pick a target to analyze by using a power on them, and does not require that they remain your target to build up stacks. It builds up to 30% effectiveness over 18 seconds, and it allows you to analyze allies as well as foes, giving you a healing bonus to analyzed allies.
The change is testing really well internally and should be on Tribble soon, which is why I'm comfortable telling you about it before it sees the light of day. Feedback and tuning on it will still be needed, of course, and as always in game development, this is not a promise that this will be what we end up doing.
I just found this golden nugget of info. I do have a worry about it though. In order for this to be useful, it would have to have a 30 sec cooldown on it.
Captains can just spam the heck out of attack patterns that debuff players damage or damage resistance (Beta and Delta) every 30s when they have duplicates or a2b.
All captains can now spam TT+ST+ET and remove debuffs and heal like crazy every 30s with duplicates or a2b builds.
If you're going to make Sensor Analysis effective in the face of all this, it should have a 30 second cooldown. I'm pretty sure, given how you all "balance" stuff in this game (yes sarcastic balance) you'll probably put at least a 45 sec cooldown, although I'm being optimistic here (I see a 1 min cooldown minimum).
Also, don't remove its effect on power insulators. It's the only thing that makes sci drain build viable.
Also, don't remove its effect on power insulators. It's the only thing that makes sci drain build viable.
Um yeah... I just came down with the sinking realization that now with this revamp science is utterly useless. Everyone has pocket counters to every single science ability in the game now, and there is absolutely nothing that can save science now.
If anyone thought some science abilities were underwhelming, just wait; with this update even powerful science abilities and the dreaded subnucleonic beam will be a distant memory.
The last cinders of hope for science ships will burn away, and the tears of science captains will be nary a whimper from the blackness of the void which will consume them.
I think resists need an overhaul. First of all, negative resists are overpowered. I don't think it should amplify damage, rather, just make it create a deficit of resistance overcome before a positive resistance can occur. The target will have an effective resistance rating of 0% and must have more resistance than the deficit before seeing a positive resistance.
Example:
Ship A applies a resistance debuff of -50% to Ship B, which has a 30% resistance to all.
Ship B now negates the first 20% of its resistance, but has an effective resistance of 0%.
Ship B activates Polarize Hull III which gives +61 resistance magnitude resulting in a positive 8.7% resistance.
Without PH granting more resistance magnitude, Ship A does 100% of its damage to Ship B (if it doesn't miss), but no more than that. This would eliminate excessive stacking of resist debuffs because it caps out at 0% resistance.
Second, alloy consoles (e.g. neutronium alloy). I recommend alloys providing a bonus to max hull health instead of resistance. Plating and armor would still grant resistance the same as before, so you can reinforce your hull and/or increase resistance to specific damage.
Hrmm...
Starting with 0 DRR/0 DR
+25 DRR = 19.9% DR
+50 = 32.8%
+75 = 41.7%
-25 = -24.8%
-50 = -48.8%
-75 = -71.4%
+25 vs. -25 = 4.0%
+25 vs. -50 = -11.4%
+25 vs. -75 = -25.9%
+50 vs. -25 = 21.6%
+50 vs. -50 = 10.8%
+50 vs. -75 = 0.6%
+75 vs. -25 = 33.2%
+75 vs. -50 = 25.0%
+75 vs. -75 = 17.4%
Perhaps, even as complex as the calculation is already - it needs to be more complex when taking into account -DRR applied at low positive DRR?
As for the Armor/Plating/Alloy...they're basically just names Cryptic uses.
Alloy provides resistance either for Kinetic or for Kinetic and Energy.
Plating provides resistance for two Energy types.
Armor provides resistance for four Energy types.
They're just names.
They could add additional +SI consoles, along the lines of the Bioneural (as well as some Deflectors, etc), which would boost HullHP or even straight forward Hull Fortification consoles that would work like Field Gens, eh?
I just found this golden nugget of info. I do have a worry about it though. In order for this to be useful, it would have to have a 30 sec cooldown on it.
Captains can just spam the heck out of attack patterns that debuff players damage or damage resistance (Beta and Delta) every 30s when they have duplicates or a2b.
All captains can now spam TT+ST+ET and remove debuffs and heal like crazy every 30s with duplicates or a2b builds.
If you're going to make Sensor Analysis effective in the face of all this, it should have a 30 second cooldown. I'm pretty sure, given how you all "balance" stuff in this game (yes sarcastic balance) you'll probably put at least a 45 sec cooldown, although I'm being optimistic here (I see a 1 min cooldown minimum).
Also, don't remove its effect on power insulators. It's the only thing that makes sci drain build viable.
The way he describes it, it sounds more like some form of switchable ability ala comm arrays where you can switch between targets more or less at will, but it will take time to build up every time you switch.
+25 DRR = 19.9% DR
+50 = 32.8%
+75 = 41.7%
-25 = -24.8%
-50 = -48.8%
-75 = -71.4%
+25 vs. -25 = 4.0%
+25 vs. -50 = -11.4%
+25 vs. -75 = -25.9%
+50 vs. -25 = 21.6%
+50 vs. -50 = 10.8%
+50 vs. -75 = 0.6%
+75 vs. -25 = 33.2%
+75 vs. -50 = 25.0%
+75 vs. -75 = 17.4%
Perhaps, even as complex as the calculation is already - it needs to be more complex when taking into account -DRR applied at low positive DRR?
As for the Armor/Plating/Alloy...they're basically just names Cryptic uses.
Alloy provides resistance either for Kinetic or for Kinetic and Energy.
Plating provides resistance for two Energy types.
Armor provides resistance for four Energy types.
They're just names.
They could add additional +SI consoles, along the lines of the Bioneural (as well as some Deflectors, etc), which would boost HullHP or even straight forward Hull Fortification consoles that would work like Field Gens, eh?
Maybe I didn't make myself clear? Simply put, if the resist debuff puts your damage resistance magnitude into the negative, then it's automatically set to 0. So a volley from a DHC will do 100% of its damage, but never more than that; you won't see a ship doing 120% damage because it has a -20% resistance. Secondly, if the magnitude is negative, you have to make up that debt before you start having a positive magnitude (thus positive resist) again. If you have 50 magnitude in +resall and an attacker takes away 75 magnitude, then it will require you to produce a 25 magnitude boost to simply negate the deficit and another 100 to get you back where you were before.
I know they are just names, but alloys provide resistance to all types of damage (except for monotanium), period. That's equivalent to simply having more hull strength; the only different being that resistance can be debuffed while hull points have to be removed with pure damage. The armor and plating only affect selected damage types. So I view it this way: Alloy is the base skin of the hull, it's good for general purpose exploration and such. The armor and plating, however, are additional protection as preparation for extended conflicts (e.g. war). The whole idea was to bring alloy consoles in line as a counterpart to field generators without creating a new console type.
Personally, I'd like to see the entire resistance attribute flushed down the toilet and have hull consoles work like field generators, but that would be far too disruptive of a change to the game and people would flip out. So I suggested this because it's less drastic.
Go here and show your support for a better Foundry!
Personally, I'd like to see the entire resistance attribute flushed down the toilet and have hull consoles work like field generators, but that would be far too disruptive of a change to the game and people would flip out. So I suggested this because it's less drastic.
How is it not that though? With a Neut, you're giving the equivalent effective health it provides as actual health while removing the ability for the it to be debuffed in any fashion. It is eliminating the resistance attribute.
With no other DRR/DR, a rare Neut Mk XI provides 17.5 DRR / 14.9% DR / +17.5% EHP. Get hit by a -10 DRR Disruptor proc, DR drops to 7.7% or ~8.3% EHP. So if you just give the EHP and ignore the DR/DRR aspect and set the min DR as 0...well, how have you not done away with resistance in that regard?
You've basically turned Neuts into Hull Field Gens...while not getting rid of resistance entirely, with regard to the consoles you have gotten rid of it. Why would anybody run anything other than them - with everything else subject to being zero'd out and providing no benefit while the Neut would always provide its benefit?
Maybe I didn't make myself clear? Simply put, if the resist debuff puts your damage resistance magnitude into the negative, then it's automatically set to 0.
No, it was clear. I was just disagreeing and providing an alternative. That at zero, the debuff magnitude scale differently...there would be less reduction. Basically it would mimic that debuffing buffs/armor would be easier than debuffing the hull itself...that actual hull would be more resistant to debuffs than buffs/armor.
How is it not that though? With a Neut, you're giving the equivalent effective health it provides as actual health while removing the ability for the it to be debuffed in any fashion. It is eliminating the resistance attribute.
With no other DRR/DR, a rare Neut Mk XI provides 17.5 DRR / 14.9% DR / +17.5% EHP. Get hit by a -10 DRR Disruptor proc, DR drops to 7.7% or ~8.3% EHP. So if you just give the EHP and ignore the DR/DRR aspect and set the min DR as 0...well, how have you not done away with resistance in that regard?
You've basically turned Neuts into Hull Field Gens...while not getting rid of resistance entirely, with regard to the consoles you have gotten rid of it. Why would anybody run anything other than them - with everything else subject to being zero'd out and providing no benefit while the Neut would always provide its benefit?
It kind of comes off pretty drastic, no?
No, it was clear. I was just disagreeing and providing an alternative. That at zero, the debuff magnitude scale differently...there would be less reduction. Basically it would mimic that debuffing buffs/armor would be easier than debuffing the hull itself...that actual hull would be more resistant to debuffs than buffs/armor.
Yeah, I'll just go with removing all mechanics that multiplies damage. Use explicit bonuses instead.
Go here and show your support for a better Foundry!
Simply put, if the resist debuff puts your damage resistance magnitude into the negative, then it's automatically set to 0. So a volley from a DHC will do 100% of its damage, but never more than that; you won't see a ship doing 120% damage because it has a -20% resistance.
The beauty of sensor analysis, it's a self buff against X target.
The beauty of sensor analysis, it's a self buff against X target.
Sensor analysis is weak. It's slow and easy to get rid of. The only way to make it work is to be able to snare the target to prevent their escape. But everyone and their dog has some kind of movement debuff immunity (PH, A2D, APO), so it's impossible to snare a target without nuking off their immunity or timing it with their CD, if there even is a gap. If they use A2B, you can forget that. They can run APO almost indefinitely and have a backup alternative if that fails.
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I'm personally in favor of this change as it actually allows my tank to well tank better.
Being able to use all three Team abilities is really good for tanks because they don't have to chose between "do I heal my hull?" or "Do I get rid of those Borg swarming my ship?" or "Should I heal my shields?"
As for crew:
The biggest immediate issue with it is the % based crew kill. This heavily favors smaller ships over larger ones which is incredibly counter intuitive. Instead of -10% crew, perhaps it could be -10 crew instead? Cruisers have higher hulls and to tank effectively they need more crew alive to repair themselves. Instead, escorts are back to full health and crew immediately while Cruisers are basically messed up until the battle is over.
Making it additive instead of mulitplicative means that it will really hurt escorts (which it should, your crew is about 50, one or two good shots could kill 'em all) while Cruisers with crew of 700+ aren't hurting as bad.
This could also lead to the introduction of "Medical Team", a Commander power exclusive to science ships (with Medical Team III being exclusive to the Olympic, a legitimate Hospital Ship) that heals crew with a crew death resist. You could also modify Photonic Officer to replace all the dead crew with orange grade photonic officers who cant die while the power is in effect (15 seconds).
Lastly, splitting up that crew into divisions: Eng/Tac/Sci
For example, an Ambassador-class Cruiser would see a ratio of 2:1:1 for their ships compliment. When they get hit and lose 20 crewman, they lose 10 engineers, 5 tactical officers and 5 science officers.
Meanwhile a Defiant would have a ratio of 2:2:1, so losing 20 crewman means that they lose 7.5 (meaning 7 deaths, injured) engineers, same for tactical and 5 science officers.
Now how does this effect gameplay? If all your crew for a division are alive, you are functioning as you do in game right now. Buffed to maximum. But if all of them die, you are running at 50% effectiveness as the computers are running the systems. So losing all your tactical crew means losing half of your DPS. Lose all your engineers? Watch your hull repair completely stop, meaning you're not getting HP back. Lose all your Science officers? Debuffs no longer function against the enemy and shields repair slower.
So how does that affect balance? Well, it gives Tanking a role and healing others a major boost to importance.
You want to tank in your escort? Fine, but you're compromising your tactical abilities and won't DPS as well.
Want to DPS in a cruiser? Ok, but better keep an eye on your engineers or you're going to be squisher than that escort.
Don't want to support your teammates in a science ship? Watch as team effectiveness fails and the goals become harder to reach.
Crew could seriously be the reinforcement to this game's two underused play roles by making them just as important as DPS.
I'm personally in favor of this change as it actually allows my tank to well tank better.
Er...tank? In STO?
edit: That may have come off more flip than intended, it was more a case of curiosity. Do you belong to some kind of Trinity RP Fleet or the like that plays that way?
edit: That may have come off more flip than intended, it was more a case of curiosity. Do you belong to some kind of Trinity RP Fleet or the like that plays that way?
No, I do it because I enjoy it. Hence my longed winded explanation of how to make it more viable.
Comments
I know I may be a minority, but most/all of my characters use TT to clear boarding parties and rebalance shields and very little else. Merging ET with shield rebalancing would be sort of useless, IMO, since ET is a big hull heal, which isn't very helpful if you have full hull, full 3/4 shield facings and one depleted shield facing taking damage.
Perhaps merging the shield balance with Sciteam, since managing shields is apparently science's domain?
It would be such a shame if subsystem targeting actually had a chance to work as it implies it does.
Taking it out would be a nerf to Feds w/Human buffs and their resists to subsystem disables? Not to imply it doesn't need work, just that it's not nothing.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Ooh, touche. The Breen Chel grett cruisers cruisers also use subnuc. Still though, I mostly play STFs & fleet alerts, and none of the factions there are really an issue. I suspect the Voth also apply some of those nasty debuffs, but they're not seen outside of Dyson STFs.
Still though... ST removes those debuffs, but for most purposes, it's outclassed by TSS.
If this thing will be introduced, the game will die.
Recently things have changed a lot:
1 - Beams became stronger than cannons (with a better fire arc too -_-)
2 - Cruisers became stronger due to A2B builds (now is Cruiser Trek Online)
and now devs are thinkin about this ?
NO WAY.
Please, don't be so stupid.
If "Team" Skills CD will be separated, every, EVERY ship would have the same DOffs Layout:
1 - A2B Build
2 - 2x CO (TT), 2x DCE (ET) and 2x DLS (ST).
This will really end the game.
Please devs, don't do this.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
EDIT: please, someone report this message.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yeah, great plan and all... not like A2B wasn't severely broken enough already.
Except aux2bat isn't the end all of builds. It's a simpleton's cookie cutter build, and like all simpleton cookie cutter builds, is not the most awesomest DPS-y build ever.
It also gets hit over the head with a rake until it breaks and bent over whenever it encounters a science captain with subnuke. IE, every. single. science captain past level 8.
Beams are not better than cannons. You need to get your head checked or learn how to use them.
Cruisers were ALWAYS meant to be the strongest ships (tanks) and highest DPS (total) but not very effective at killing targets quickly. That's what escorts do best.
Just like escorts are the only ships that can run dual TT and dual OMEGA plus have weapon buff abilities , cruisers get A2B and sci ships get... well, nothing since sci is borked beyond belief.
Here's another eye opener for you: Escorts now can easily load:
2x TT, 2x Omega plus their weapon buffs
hazard 1, sci team 2
eng team 1, a2b
and that alone keeps their shields and hull perma-healed PLUS immune to all forms of snares and timers are reduced perfectly in sync with cycling of TT+omega.
Cruisers cant do that. Sci ships cant do that.
The ONLY reason cruisers now come on top is because the game became an idiotic AOE spamfest where there are ZERO tactics involved and ZERO teamwork involved. For spamfest of damage the FAW cycling plus a2b does in the end much more damage than cannon boats...
why? Because FAW'ing a group of spheres for example has them being hit in all shields (spheres rotate) and then the hull...that means the cruiser adds all that up in their dps-meters.
A cannon boat on the other hand, hits that group of spheres so hard with cannons that they only lose one shield facing and their hull is promptly thumped. Total dps of this is LOWER than the FAW beam boat...but the escort kills the same number of spheres in half the time.
Case in point: Pick out one sphere in ESTF Infected. When flying your a2b cruiser giving that sphere all the damage you got, see how long it takes you to kill it. Hint: you'll be hitting it for nearly a minute.
Now get an escort.. with a single strafing run of a well-built cannon ship it will DIE. In ~10 seconds.
ST clears the nuke and poof... no more problem.
yeah, do tell this to the one that killed a gateway in 45s with his beam scimitar o.O
I need at least 2 mins to kill a gateway with my cannon Ha'Feh.
Beams have become stronger than cannons, you are the only one who don't won't to admit it.
I saw a beam scimitar kill a group of spheres before i killed 1.
ALSO: lets consider the PVP.
Almost any good PVP ship has an hangar bay: cannon boats are quite defenseless against fighter pets.
but beam boats are perfect for this.
and guess: cruisers are beam boats, escorts are cannon boats.
Tanks are quite unkillable by a single ship, and with this "enhancement" they will become even more unkillable.
and guess: cruisers are tanks, escorts no.
Do I need to continue ?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Why does it take you two minutes to down a gateway in a Romulan ship? My CANNON Scimitar/Ha'feh can do it in a minute easy. It's not that hard. You just need to have at least 20k DPS potential, and boom, you'll down it.
Cannons will always burst harder for longer than beams. Yes, beams have a much higher SUSTAINED (as in over the whole bloody mission) damage, but when it comes down to damage per combat cycle, cannons are still higher.
The first part of your post basically reads "I cannot match the most OP ship in the game while it uses beams while I use a ship that is anything but OP with cannons therefore beams are better than cannons." Is that about right? LOL Puuuleeeeeaaasee
A Cannon Scimitar is far more deadly and terrifying than some Beam: Fail At Will Scimitar. Sure any Scimitar with a good setup is going to be outrageously deadly and the Fail boat WILL generate higher DPS numbers but its bursts will be laughable by comparison and it is burst damage that really kills in PvP AND PvE.
Next... Cannon boats are defenseless against fighters? Maybe yours are... I do not even really need to justify that with a real response but honestly there are plenty of ways to deal with fighters as a Cannon boat. However, you should not even waste your time killing the fighters when you could instead drop an Alpha on the ship spawning them and just turn it into dust.
So long as they keep moving Escorts can tank pretty much as good as any Cruiser and if you are a Cruiser with an Engineering Captain set up for maximum Tank then there is no point in targeting you to begin with. Why? Because your damage output is going to be miniscule that you are not a threat and just a waste of time. For those ships that now get the new Threat Aura at least they can be good in PvE finally which is awesome but in PvP they are still fairly pointless.
I mean If I press one TT that one goes to 30 secs, while the other goes to 15. But with ET or ST both go to 30 secs.
Plz let me know if im wrong
its not always possible to kill a ship with a single alpha strike.
and runabouts/slavers are a real treat for a cannon boat ... so you first have to kill those nasty hangar pets, than the carrier that spawned them... unless you prefer kill the carrier with your Aft Turrets.
There is APO of course, but it has 40s CD and its not always available.
while a beam boat can use FAW and problem solved.
ALSO: may I remind you that A2B Builds were OP ?
well, do you know what was their only weakness ?
the lack of hull healing abilities -_-
and guess: now they have an OP hull healing ability.
Making what is OP even more OP, yeah ... that's the way.
Congrats Devs
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PS: oh, my ship is not OP like the scimitar, but its a good ship.
or, at least, it is the ship I like ...
I think the Fleet Ha'Feh is one of the best ship in the game.
Its only weakness is that its not a cruiser in Cruiser Trek Online -_-
But please, do tell me: what are the OP ships ?
Scimitar: Cruiser
JH Dreadnought: Cruiser
Fleet Mogh: Cruiser
Monbosh: Cruiser
Do you still think this is not Cruiser Trek Online ?
And now cruisers with their A2B OP Build are even stronger, thanks to the devs and their great ideas ... Engineering Team was right what an A2B Build needed, thanks devs -_-
But you know what ?
I got an A2B Fleet Mogh: I don't like it, but Devs are doing all they can to force me to use it.
So ok, lets use this fu**ed fleet mogh -_-
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Example:
Ship A applies a resistance debuff of -50% to Ship B, which has a 30% resistance to all.
Ship B now negates the first 20% of its resistance, but has an effective resistance of 0%.
Ship B activates Polarize Hull III which gives +61 resistance magnitude resulting in a positive 8.7% resistance.
Without PH granting more resistance magnitude, Ship A does 100% of its damage to Ship B (if it doesn't miss), but no more than that. This would eliminate excessive stacking of resist debuffs because it caps out at 0% resistance.
Second, alloy consoles (e.g. neutronium alloy). I recommend alloys providing a bonus to max hull health instead of resistance. Plating and armor would still grant resistance the same as before, so you can reinforce your hull and/or increase resistance to specific damage.
I just found this golden nugget of info. I do have a worry about it though. In order for this to be useful, it would have to have a 30 sec cooldown on it.
Captains can just spam the heck out of attack patterns that debuff players damage or damage resistance (Beta and Delta) every 30s when they have duplicates or a2b.
All captains can now spam TT+ST+ET and remove debuffs and heal like crazy every 30s with duplicates or a2b builds.
If you're going to make Sensor Analysis effective in the face of all this, it should have a 30 second cooldown. I'm pretty sure, given how you all "balance" stuff in this game (yes sarcastic balance) you'll probably put at least a 45 sec cooldown, although I'm being optimistic here (I see a 1 min cooldown minimum).
Also, don't remove its effect on power insulators. It's the only thing that makes sci drain build viable.
Um yeah... I just came down with the sinking realization that now with this revamp science is utterly useless. Everyone has pocket counters to every single science ability in the game now, and there is absolutely nothing that can save science now.
If anyone thought some science abilities were underwhelming, just wait; with this update even powerful science abilities and the dreaded subnucleonic beam will be a distant memory.
The last cinders of hope for science ships will burn away, and the tears of science captains will be nary a whimper from the blackness of the void which will consume them.
Hrmm...
Starting with 0 DRR/0 DR
+25 DRR = 19.9% DR
+50 = 32.8%
+75 = 41.7%
-25 = -24.8%
-50 = -48.8%
-75 = -71.4%
+25 vs. -25 = 4.0%
+25 vs. -50 = -11.4%
+25 vs. -75 = -25.9%
+50 vs. -25 = 21.6%
+50 vs. -50 = 10.8%
+50 vs. -75 = 0.6%
+75 vs. -25 = 33.2%
+75 vs. -50 = 25.0%
+75 vs. -75 = 17.4%
Perhaps, even as complex as the calculation is already - it needs to be more complex when taking into account -DRR applied at low positive DRR?
As for the Armor/Plating/Alloy...they're basically just names Cryptic uses.
Alloy provides resistance either for Kinetic or for Kinetic and Energy.
Plating provides resistance for two Energy types.
Armor provides resistance for four Energy types.
They're just names.
They could add additional +SI consoles, along the lines of the Bioneural (as well as some Deflectors, etc), which would boost HullHP or even straight forward Hull Fortification consoles that would work like Field Gens, eh?
The way he describes it, it sounds more like some form of switchable ability ala comm arrays where you can switch between targets more or less at will, but it will take time to build up every time you switch.
Maybe I didn't make myself clear? Simply put, if the resist debuff puts your damage resistance magnitude into the negative, then it's automatically set to 0. So a volley from a DHC will do 100% of its damage, but never more than that; you won't see a ship doing 120% damage because it has a -20% resistance. Secondly, if the magnitude is negative, you have to make up that debt before you start having a positive magnitude (thus positive resist) again. If you have 50 magnitude in +resall and an attacker takes away 75 magnitude, then it will require you to produce a 25 magnitude boost to simply negate the deficit and another 100 to get you back where you were before.
I know they are just names, but alloys provide resistance to all types of damage (except for monotanium), period. That's equivalent to simply having more hull strength; the only different being that resistance can be debuffed while hull points have to be removed with pure damage. The armor and plating only affect selected damage types. So I view it this way: Alloy is the base skin of the hull, it's good for general purpose exploration and such. The armor and plating, however, are additional protection as preparation for extended conflicts (e.g. war). The whole idea was to bring alloy consoles in line as a counterpart to field generators without creating a new console type.
Personally, I'd like to see the entire resistance attribute flushed down the toilet and have hull consoles work like field generators, but that would be far too disruptive of a change to the game and people would flip out. So I suggested this because it's less drastic.
How is it not that though? With a Neut, you're giving the equivalent effective health it provides as actual health while removing the ability for the it to be debuffed in any fashion. It is eliminating the resistance attribute.
With no other DRR/DR, a rare Neut Mk XI provides 17.5 DRR / 14.9% DR / +17.5% EHP. Get hit by a -10 DRR Disruptor proc, DR drops to 7.7% or ~8.3% EHP. So if you just give the EHP and ignore the DR/DRR aspect and set the min DR as 0...well, how have you not done away with resistance in that regard?
You've basically turned Neuts into Hull Field Gens...while not getting rid of resistance entirely, with regard to the consoles you have gotten rid of it. Why would anybody run anything other than them - with everything else subject to being zero'd out and providing no benefit while the Neut would always provide its benefit?
It kind of comes off pretty drastic, no?
No, it was clear. I was just disagreeing and providing an alternative. That at zero, the debuff magnitude scale differently...there would be less reduction. Basically it would mimic that debuffing buffs/armor would be easier than debuffing the hull itself...that actual hull would be more resistant to debuffs than buffs/armor.
Yeah, I'll just go with removing all mechanics that multiplies damage. Use explicit bonuses instead.
KDF Tac: Bortasqu' Tactical
Fed Tac: Fleet Gal-X
Keep those big guns a-thunderin'
The beauty of sensor analysis, it's a self buff against X target.
Sensor analysis is weak. It's slow and easy to get rid of. The only way to make it work is to be able to snare the target to prevent their escape. But everyone and their dog has some kind of movement debuff immunity (PH, A2D, APO), so it's impossible to snare a target without nuking off their immunity or timing it with their CD, if there even is a gap. If they use A2B, you can forget that. They can run APO almost indefinitely and have a backup alternative if that fails.
Being able to use all three Team abilities is really good for tanks because they don't have to chose between "do I heal my hull?" or "Do I get rid of those Borg swarming my ship?" or "Should I heal my shields?"
As for crew:
The biggest immediate issue with it is the % based crew kill. This heavily favors smaller ships over larger ones which is incredibly counter intuitive. Instead of -10% crew, perhaps it could be -10 crew instead? Cruisers have higher hulls and to tank effectively they need more crew alive to repair themselves. Instead, escorts are back to full health and crew immediately while Cruisers are basically messed up until the battle is over.
Making it additive instead of mulitplicative means that it will really hurt escorts (which it should, your crew is about 50, one or two good shots could kill 'em all) while Cruisers with crew of 700+ aren't hurting as bad.
This could also lead to the introduction of "Medical Team", a Commander power exclusive to science ships (with Medical Team III being exclusive to the Olympic, a legitimate Hospital Ship) that heals crew with a crew death resist. You could also modify Photonic Officer to replace all the dead crew with orange grade photonic officers who cant die while the power is in effect (15 seconds).
Lastly, splitting up that crew into divisions: Eng/Tac/Sci
For example, an Ambassador-class Cruiser would see a ratio of 2:1:1 for their ships compliment. When they get hit and lose 20 crewman, they lose 10 engineers, 5 tactical officers and 5 science officers.
Meanwhile a Defiant would have a ratio of 2:2:1, so losing 20 crewman means that they lose 7.5 (meaning 7 deaths, injured) engineers, same for tactical and 5 science officers.
Now how does this effect gameplay? If all your crew for a division are alive, you are functioning as you do in game right now. Buffed to maximum. But if all of them die, you are running at 50% effectiveness as the computers are running the systems. So losing all your tactical crew means losing half of your DPS. Lose all your engineers? Watch your hull repair completely stop, meaning you're not getting HP back. Lose all your Science officers? Debuffs no longer function against the enemy and shields repair slower.
So how does that affect balance? Well, it gives Tanking a role and healing others a major boost to importance.
You want to tank in your escort? Fine, but you're compromising your tactical abilities and won't DPS as well.
Want to DPS in a cruiser? Ok, but better keep an eye on your engineers or you're going to be squisher than that escort.
Don't want to support your teammates in a science ship? Watch as team effectiveness fails and the goals become harder to reach.
Crew could seriously be the reinforcement to this game's two underused play roles by making them just as important as DPS.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
Er...tank? In STO?
edit: That may have come off more flip than intended, it was more a case of curiosity. Do you belong to some kind of Trinity RP Fleet or the like that plays that way?
No, I do it because I enjoy it. Hence my longed winded explanation of how to make it more viable.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!