Can the romulans just get a Mogh/avenger clone? Can keep the Cruiser commands.........i would just like a romulan looking 5/3 that dont slide all over the place, is far, FAR too big, and looks like batman compensating for something....
Can the romulans just get a Mogh/avenger clone? Can keep the Cruiser commands.........i would just like a romulan looking 5/3 that dont slide all over the place, is far, FAR too big, and looks like batman compensating for something....
Could be nice but at the same time the stats would probably be so similar to a Scimitar, inferior without a hangar, that it just might not be worth it and probably wouldn't be a big seller.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Could be nice but at the same time the stats would probably be so similar to a Scimitar, inferior without a hangar, that it just might not be worth it and probably wouldn't be a big seller.
When you compare the Avenger/Mogh to the Scimitar things are pretty similar, with the 2 piece set which I suppose a lot of people don't use, but it can match the 9 turn rate of the A and M, they all have 5/3 weapon slotting, the Scim has 5 tac slots to their 4, and has a hangar.
They only have 1,250 more hull and their Inertia is 50 compared to the Scim's 20...the Scim just has them out done in most places.
I mean I'd love to see a Romulan version of the Mogh and I'd buy it, I'm just afraid a whole lot wouldn't when they could buy the Scimitar.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
In the original series episode "The Enterprise Incident", The Romulans were using D-7 cruisers because of a tech. exchange. But, what some seem to be forgetting is that the D-7 frame was also compatable with their cloaking device, thus saving R&D costs for the star empire (and causing the Klingons to wholeheartedly embrace use of the cloak, which in turn caused the Romulans to insist that the Federation never pursue development of their own cloaking tech. in most of their treaty interactions [ref. Next Generation episode "The Pegasus""]).
Having said that, the Romulan ship roster can be filled more with the inclusion of the D-7 cruiser and the B'rel Bird-of-Prey (which is widely accepted as a direct result of the Klingon/Romulan technological exchange), both of which easily falls into canon.
I also suggest that inspiration be taken from the Starship Tactical Combat Simulator game, once published by FASA Corp. Ships i would love to see (and captian) are as follows:
V-30 Vas'Deletham (Winged Defender) Cruiser, either a tier III or IV ship.
V-7 Aye Mosaram (White Wing) Cruiser, again, tier III or IV.
V-9 Temar Vastaram (Night Flyer) Cruiser, a tier III.
V-20 Galan Stelri (Star Seeker) Cruiser [science] a tier II.
T-10 Reemea (Bright One) Destroyer [science] a tier II.
N-8 Mandukam (Vigilant) Gunboat/Runabout a tier I.
AND
Z-1 Morlasasi Stelam (Nova) Battleship, definitely a tier V, possibly a match to the Odyssey and Bortasqu' ships.
Even if none of these ships can be fit into the game because of licensing issues, AT THE VERY LEAST,CRYPTIC, try to come up with some ship skins showing Bird Of Prey markings for the underside of all Romulan ships (it was so memorable in The Original Series).
In the original series episode "The Enterprise Incident", The Romulans were using D-7 cruisers because of a tech. exchange. But, what some seem to be forgetting is that the D-7 frame was also compatable with their cloaking device, thus saving R&D costs for the star empire (and causing the Klingons to wholeheartedly embrace use of the cloak, which in turn caused the Romulans to insist that the Federation never pursue development of their own cloaking tech. in most of their treaty interactions [ref. Next Generation episode "The Pegasus""]).
Having said that, the Romulan ship roster can be filled more with the inclusion of the D-7 cruiser and the B'rel Bird-of-Prey (which is widely accepted as a direct result of the Klingon/Romulan technological exchange), both of which easily falls into canon.
I also suggest that inspiration be taken from the Starship Tactical Combat Simulator game, once published by FASA Corp. Ships i would love to see (and captian) are as follows:
V-30 Vas'Deletham (Winged Defender) Cruiser, either a tier III or IV ship.
V-7 Aye Mosaram (White Wing) Cruiser, again, tier III or IV.
V-9 Temar Vastaram (Night Flyer) Cruiser, a tier III.
V-20 Galan Stelri (Star Seeker) Cruiser [science] a tier II.
T-10 Reemea (Bright One) Destroyer [science] a tier II.
N-8 Mandukam (Vigilant) Gunboat/Runabout a tier I.
AND
Z-1 Morlasasi Stelam (Nova) Battleship, definitely a tier V, possibly a match to the Odyssey and Bortasqu' ships.
Even if none of these ships can be fit into the game because of licensing issues, AT THE VERY LEAST,CRYPTIC, try to come up with some ship skins showing Bird Of Prey markings for the underside of all Romulan ships (it was so memorable in The Original Series).
I've never seen a Romulan commanding a Klingon BoP in canon...the only thing closely related was originally the BoP was meant to be a Romulan ship but decided to make it Klingon...I don't particularly consider a script idea that never made it *canon*.
Secondly, the Romulans trades cloaking devices for the D7's...hulls which were being replaced by the up and coming K't'inga class...ships they needed in order to compete in the greater galaxy.
I just can't see Romulans suddenly embracing a low point in their history and bringing back D7's.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
If we started to consider rejected ideas that have been invalidated by what was on screen as "canon" we'd end up with a lot of BS.
The Klingon Bird of Prey is supposed to be the result of a cooperation with the Romulans?
Okay...how come the Klingons were already using Birds of Prey over 100 years before that supposed cooperation?
What's next? One of the rejected ideas for TNG was that Betajoids were supposed to have three TRIBBLE. Is that suddenly canon too?
Yeah it's not pretty. Not that that's the developer's fault. They didn't design it. I don't really consider it a Romulan ship, myself. Apart from it belonging to a renegade faction it doesn't fit the general aestetic of Romulan vessels.
The Klingon Bird of Prey is supposed to be the result of a cooperation with the Romulans?
Okay...how come the Klingons were already using Birds of Prey over 100 years before that supposed cooperation?
That's a myth isn't it?
Courtesy of those twits over on massively who rather rudely accused the original series writers of making lazy mistakes, I know this one.
The "bird of prey" connection between the Romulans and Klingons was part of an early script for the third movie. But it wasn't cooperation. It was theft. While that connection didn't make it into the final version the Klingon BoP did.
Many assume a connection between the Romulans and Klingons because of the BoP name and them both using cloaks. But it's just an assumption. The Romulans were incredibly xenophobic. They wouldn't have shared technology or allied with the Klingons unless there was dire need. If anything I think the early version of that script is more plausible. Klingons may have stolen the cloaking technology and the ship's name while they were at it.
The "bird of prey" connection between the Romulans and Klingons was part of an early script for the third movie. But it wasn't cooperation. It was theft. While that connection didn't make it into the final version the Klingon BoP did.
Many assume a connection between the Romulans and Klingons because of the BoP name and them both using cloaks. But it's just an assumption. The Romulans were incredibly xenophobic. They wouldn't have shared technology or allied with the Klingons unless there was dire need. If anything I think the early version of that script is more plausible. Klingons may have stolen the cloaking technology and the ship's name while they were at it.
It's a bit more complicated.
Originally the villains of Star Trek 3 were supposed to be the Romulans. But that was changed because they had already spent the money on the new Klingon uniforms for the first movie.
They would have needed to do that again for this movie only with the Romulans.
But it appears that at that time the ship had already been designed with Romulans in mind.
So the first draft with the Klingons as villains included that line about Kruge stealing the ship from the Romulans.
Problem is that in the time between stealing the ship and Star Trek 3 Kruge and his crew much have done a total makeover of the inside, even going so far as to install new computers and chairs from the Klingon Battlecruiser set of Star Trek 1 to make any sense.
For some reason people tend to totally ignore this minor detail.
And of course they also ignore this ship:
During the 1980's the game company FASA had the license to produce a Trek tabletop and and RPG that were based on TOS and the movies of that time.
And they used the notion it was a Romulan ship that was removed from the script and went wild with it. As a result the Romulans and the Klingons cooperated in their RPG materials.
The FASA Romulans also designed a whole buch of ships around the new aestetic seen in that movie, like the "Winged Defender"
Problem is that are a whole bunch of people out there who consult stuff like "Memory Beta" and read about this supposed cooperation without even bothering to check the source.
In this case a 1980's RPG that was already ignored by the creators of the movies, and later TNG, while the license was still going on.
And then it's suddenly "canon" because when it's written in a Wiki on the internet it's always canon right?;)
Especially when the Wiki itself carries in its title "the non-canon wiki" it's prectically an invitation to use it as a canon source. I mean the warning to not drink bleach is also the ultimate invitation to drink it don't you agree?
In the FASA timline Star Trek 1 happens in 2217 while Kirk states in Star Trek 4 that he comes from the late 23rd century.
Ah and according to FASA Klignons have a life expectency of 50 years and the human-looking Klingons we saw in TOS are tailor-made genetic constructs made to fight humans.
There's even a Romulan version of these "fusions".
During the 1980's the game company FASA had the license to produce a Trek tabletop and and RPG
I loved that game, ran a campaign for years. Unfortunately FASA was great at designing (or coopting)cool ships (and giant robots) but not so good at having things make sense.
The FASA Romulans also designed a whole buch of ships around the new aestetic seen in that movie, like the "Winged Defender"
Still my favorite design from that era - the 'Nova' battleship a close second. With some tweaks the Haakona kinda looks like the WD (well, OK, a fat-headed cousin to it anyway)
In the FASA timline Star Trek 1 happens in 2217 while Kirk states in Star Trek 4 that he comes from the late 23rd century.
Ah and according to FASA Klignons have a life expectency of 50 years and the human-looking Klingons we saw in TOS are tailor-made genetic constructs made to fight humans.
Yeah, like I said, just plain goofy at times.
The best explanation I've heard for the 'cooperation' is still in Diane Duane's books. The tl;dr version - Klinks wanted another enemy to nibble at the Feds and wanted cloaks. The planets in the Roms area were all pretty resource-poor (which explains why they went so far during the Sundering) so they just didn't have enough stuff to build fleets to challenge the Feds. So Klinks traded D-7s and improved disruptors for access to older cloaks. Since then they've had an up-and-down relationship, raiding each other one week and "cooperating" the next.
"You Iconians just hung a vacancy sign on your asses and my foot's looking for a room!"
--Red Annorax
Originally the villains of Star Trek 3 were supposed to be the Romulans. But that was changed because they had already spent the money on the new Klingon uniforms for the first movie.
They would have needed to do that again for this movie only with the Romulans.
But it appears that at that time the ship had already been designed with Romulans in mind.
So the first draft with the Klingons as villains included that line about Kruge stealing the ship from the Romulans.
Problem is that in the time between stealing the ship and Star Trek 3 Kruge and his crew much have done a total makeover of the inside, even going so far as to install new computers and chairs from the Klingon Battlecruiser set of Star Trek 1 to make any sense.
For some reason people tend to totally ignore this minor detail.
And of course they also ignore this ship:
During the 1980's the game company FASA had the license to produce a Trek tabletop and and RPG that were based on TOS and the movies of that time.
And they used the notion it was a Romulan ship that was removed from the script and went wild with it. As a result the Romulans and the Klingons cooperated in their RPG materials.
The FASA Romulans also designed a whole buch of ships around the new aestetic seen in that movie, like the "Winged Defender"
Problem is that are a whole bunch of people out there who consult stuff like "Memory Beta" and read about this supposed cooperation without even bothering to check the source.
In this case a 1980's RPG that was already ignored by the creators of the movies, and later TNG, while the license was still going on.
And then it's suddenly "canon" because when it's written in a Wiki on the internet it's always canon right?;)
Especially when the Wiki itself carries in its title "the non-canon wiki" it's prectically an invitation to use it as a canon source. I mean the warning to not drink bleach is also the ultimate invitation to drink it don't you agree?
In the FASA timline Star Trek 1 happens in 2217 while Kirk states in Star Trek 4 that he comes from the late 23rd century.
Ah and according to FASA Klignons have a life expectency of 50 years and the human-looking Klingons we saw in TOS are tailor-made genetic constructs made to fight humans.
There's even a Romulan version of these "fusions".
Comments
Could be nice but at the same time the stats would probably be so similar to a Scimitar, inferior without a hangar, that it just might not be worth it and probably wouldn't be a big seller.
Shame, i hate that ugly powersliding batship.
Learn to use the slide, or how to control your speed. I piloted the Oddy for a long time, and unless I planed to do it I never did a power slide.
Where it's looks are concerned I agree it is ugly. I do own it but it was the best of a bad choice for a hangar ship on the Rommy side.
When you compare the Avenger/Mogh to the Scimitar things are pretty similar, with the 2 piece set which I suppose a lot of people don't use, but it can match the 9 turn rate of the A and M, they all have 5/3 weapon slotting, the Scim has 5 tac slots to their 4, and has a hangar.
They only have 1,250 more hull and their Inertia is 50 compared to the Scim's 20...the Scim just has them out done in most places.
I mean I'd love to see a Romulan version of the Mogh and I'd buy it, I'm just afraid a whole lot wouldn't when they could buy the Scimitar.
In the original series episode "The Enterprise Incident", The Romulans were using D-7 cruisers because of a tech. exchange. But, what some seem to be forgetting is that the D-7 frame was also compatable with their cloaking device, thus saving R&D costs for the star empire (and causing the Klingons to wholeheartedly embrace use of the cloak, which in turn caused the Romulans to insist that the Federation never pursue development of their own cloaking tech. in most of their treaty interactions [ref. Next Generation episode "The Pegasus""]).
Having said that, the Romulan ship roster can be filled more with the inclusion of the D-7 cruiser and the B'rel Bird-of-Prey (which is widely accepted as a direct result of the Klingon/Romulan technological exchange), both of which easily falls into canon.
I also suggest that inspiration be taken from the Starship Tactical Combat Simulator game, once published by FASA Corp. Ships i would love to see (and captian) are as follows:
V-30 Vas'Deletham (Winged Defender) Cruiser, either a tier III or IV ship.
V-7 Aye Mosaram (White Wing) Cruiser, again, tier III or IV.
V-9 Temar Vastaram (Night Flyer) Cruiser, a tier III.
V-20 Galan Stelri (Star Seeker) Cruiser [science] a tier II.
T-10 Reemea (Bright One) Destroyer [science] a tier II.
N-8 Mandukam (Vigilant) Gunboat/Runabout a tier I.
AND
Z-1 Morlasasi Stelam (Nova) Battleship, definitely a tier V, possibly a match to the Odyssey and Bortasqu' ships.
Even if none of these ships can be fit into the game because of licensing issues, AT THE VERY LEAST,CRYPTIC, try to come up with some ship skins showing Bird Of Prey markings for the underside of all Romulan ships (it was so memorable in The Original Series).
I've never seen a Romulan commanding a Klingon BoP in canon...the only thing closely related was originally the BoP was meant to be a Romulan ship but decided to make it Klingon...I don't particularly consider a script idea that never made it *canon*.
Secondly, the Romulans trades cloaking devices for the D7's...hulls which were being replaced by the up and coming K't'inga class...ships they needed in order to compete in the greater galaxy.
I just can't see Romulans suddenly embracing a low point in their history and bringing back D7's.
The Klingon Bird of Prey is supposed to be the result of a cooperation with the Romulans?
Okay...how come the Klingons were already using Birds of Prey over 100 years before that supposed cooperation?
What's next? One of the rejected ideas for TNG was that Betajoids were supposed to have three TRIBBLE. Is that suddenly canon too?
Yeah it's not pretty. Not that that's the developer's fault. They didn't design it. I don't really consider it a Romulan ship, myself. Apart from it belonging to a renegade faction it doesn't fit the general aestetic of Romulan vessels.
That's a myth isn't it?
Courtesy of those twits over on massively who rather rudely accused the original series writers of making lazy mistakes, I know this one.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/04/29/captains-log-more-romulan-ships-coming-in-star-trek-online/
The "bird of prey" connection between the Romulans and Klingons was part of an early script for the third movie. But it wasn't cooperation. It was theft. While that connection didn't make it into the final version the Klingon BoP did.
Many assume a connection between the Romulans and Klingons because of the BoP name and them both using cloaks. But it's just an assumption. The Romulans were incredibly xenophobic. They wouldn't have shared technology or allied with the Klingons unless there was dire need. If anything I think the early version of that script is more plausible. Klingons may have stolen the cloaking technology and the ship's name while they were at it.
It's a bit more complicated.
Originally the villains of Star Trek 3 were supposed to be the Romulans. But that was changed because they had already spent the money on the new Klingon uniforms for the first movie.
They would have needed to do that again for this movie only with the Romulans.
But it appears that at that time the ship had already been designed with Romulans in mind.
So the first draft with the Klingons as villains included that line about Kruge stealing the ship from the Romulans.
Problem is that in the time between stealing the ship and Star Trek 3 Kruge and his crew much have done a total makeover of the inside, even going so far as to install new computers and chairs from the Klingon Battlecruiser set of Star Trek 1 to make any sense.
For some reason people tend to totally ignore this minor detail.
And of course they also ignore this ship:
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20061013044653/memoryalpha/en/images/9/9d/Klingon_b-o-p,_Borderland_2.jpg
And now the confusing bit:
During the 1980's the game company FASA had the license to produce a Trek tabletop and and RPG that were based on TOS and the movies of that time.
And they used the notion it was a Romulan ship that was removed from the script and went wild with it. As a result the Romulans and the Klingons cooperated in their RPG materials.
The FASA Romulans also designed a whole buch of ships around the new aestetic seen in that movie, like the "Winged Defender"
http://www.haaswerks.com/images/products/185.jpg
Problem is that are a whole bunch of people out there who consult stuff like "Memory Beta" and read about this supposed cooperation without even bothering to check the source.
In this case a 1980's RPG that was already ignored by the creators of the movies, and later TNG, while the license was still going on.
And then it's suddenly "canon" because when it's written in a Wiki on the internet it's always canon right?;)
Especially when the Wiki itself carries in its title "the non-canon wiki" it's prectically an invitation to use it as a canon source. I mean the warning to not drink bleach is also the ultimate invitation to drink it don't you agree?
In the FASA timline Star Trek 1 happens in 2217 while Kirk states in Star Trek 4 that he comes from the late 23rd century.
Ah and according to FASA Klignons have a life expectency of 50 years and the human-looking Klingons we saw in TOS are tailor-made genetic constructs made to fight humans.
There's even a Romulan version of these "fusions".
http://www.klingon-empire.org/photopost/data/506/medium/Klingons.png
The best explanation I've heard for the 'cooperation' is still in Diane Duane's books. The tl;dr version - Klinks wanted another enemy to nibble at the Feds and wanted cloaks. The planets in the Roms area were all pretty resource-poor (which explains why they went so far during the Sundering) so they just didn't have enough stuff to build fleets to challenge the Feds. So Klinks traded D-7s and improved disruptors for access to older cloaks. Since then they've had an up-and-down relationship, raiding each other one week and "cooperating" the next.
--Red Annorax
I stand (somewhat) corrected.
In any event, let Cryptic find some way to get these ships in the game, somehow. We in the forums can always find some means to justify it.