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Vo'quv, drunk or not klingon?
captainpirko
Member Posts: 270 Arc User
Here's a tale of a race of warriors. great warriors that sacrifice shields, armor, and sensors on their ships to make sure their guns are bigger then their enemies.
one day one of their chief engineers were looking over the fleet line, noting the abilities of the BoP, but the power of a large warship like the Quv, or the Negh'var. so the engineer gathered the smartest engineers together, and designed a dreadnought so large, so powerful, that a entire squadron of Bird of preys could dock INSIDE the ship!
yet something went wrong during construction... a shipment of weapons were sabotaged, and the dreadnought was scheduled to launch in only a few months! the engineering crews (made up of orions, gorn, and letheans) knew they'd be executed for incompetence if the ship was delayed. so they kept building. they installed the few weapon ports they had available, filling the rest with sensors, particle generators, and flow capacitors, hoping no one would notice.
3 months later, the first finished Vo'Quv launched, and the biggest, baddest, more powerful klingon war dreadnought, left space dock, but with the largest flaw in klingon design.... only 6 weapons available.
soo.... your telling me, that a race that loves to slap more guns on things then it probably should have, went easy on the voquv and made it the most sciency ship the klingons have? the ship that's supposed to be considered a DREADNOUGHT?
....right...
http://i.minus.com/iohbzt3cm9HhL.gif
one day one of their chief engineers were looking over the fleet line, noting the abilities of the BoP, but the power of a large warship like the Quv, or the Negh'var. so the engineer gathered the smartest engineers together, and designed a dreadnought so large, so powerful, that a entire squadron of Bird of preys could dock INSIDE the ship!
yet something went wrong during construction... a shipment of weapons were sabotaged, and the dreadnought was scheduled to launch in only a few months! the engineering crews (made up of orions, gorn, and letheans) knew they'd be executed for incompetence if the ship was delayed. so they kept building. they installed the few weapon ports they had available, filling the rest with sensors, particle generators, and flow capacitors, hoping no one would notice.
3 months later, the first finished Vo'Quv launched, and the biggest, baddest, more powerful klingon war dreadnought, left space dock, but with the largest flaw in klingon design.... only 6 weapons available.
soo.... your telling me, that a race that loves to slap more guns on things then it probably should have, went easy on the voquv and made it the most sciency ship the klingons have? the ship that's supposed to be considered a DREADNOUGHT?
....right...
http://i.minus.com/iohbzt3cm9HhL.gif
[SIGPIC]Timelords Fleet [/SIGPIC]
Post edited by captainpirko on
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Klingons are not, contrary to popular belief, brutal savages. That view is the ST universe equivalent of the pre-WWII notion that the Japanese were inherently inferior and couldn't possible build, let alone pilot, effective combat aircraft; it confuses superficial cultural traits with underlying intelligence and pragmatism.
The Vo'quv is a logical part of the Klingon fleet mix. It allows for ships that *are* nothing but guns and engines to be deployed at a great distance from Imperial facilities, and then to operate for prolonged periods without having to return to base. The presence of a carrier turns fighters from defensive into offensive assets, and allows Birds of Prey to spend more time "on task" rather than transiting to and from Klingon space for repair and resupply.
In short, all the things wet navy carriers do for aircraft.
This means that the pointy ships spend more time fighting rather than travelling or in spacedock. The carrier itself is really a support vessel, and Klingon pragmatism recognises its value as a force multiplier for other ships. Its "dreadnought" status derives from its size, even if it lacks the direct firepower of other ships.
Remember - Spock described the Klingons as "efficient". Just because something does not directly deal damage, it doesn't mean the KDF do not recognise its military value.
It carries Birds-of-Prey and other warships which is where its damage primarily comes from. Just like any other conventional carrier here on Earth, it is not specifically designed to enter combat itself, but to serve as a command ship where it observes the battle from the perimeter of the fleet.
The crew number similarly indicates that the Vo'Quv is primarily what the Klingons use for ground offensives. In addition to the maintenance engineers and technicians for the craft in the hangars, it has to be noted that a portion of its crew consists of marines and other infantry and that it carries landing crafts and other transports to bring the fight out of space and into enemy ships, space stations, and on planetary terrain.
You don't put 4,000 klingon warriors in a single ship and then throw it at the enemy. The attrition of a single Vo'Quv is far too expensive to put it in distinct ship-to-ship combat. While it would be able to sustain quite a bit of punishment, the 6 weapon slots really tell me that it functions as one part of a greater fleet and relies on its birds-of-prey or to'duj fighters (or whatever else) as its primary defenses. If the carrier is under attack, the ships likely return to defend the mothership.
This is also why I think the Vo'Quv would not have been designed with a cloaking device in mind -- it simply does not require one. It represents a very visible utilitarian ship, not a predator like the battleships, battlecruisers, and birds of prey. Even the Bortasqu' has a cloaking device, despite its massive energy signature that makes the cloak less effective.
The Vo'Quv represents the military might of the Empire. As a very visible symbol, it is among the largest ships the Empire has. It has 4,000 crew members, hangars that can launch powerful birds-of-prey or any other numerous small craft, and science facilities for it to observe and manipulate the battle from outside of the front lines so battlecruisers and battleships can do their job.
It's basically a mobile starbase. Which is not unlike the modern-day aircraft carriers.
The only thing I would love to see retrofit onto the VoQ would be some new long range (12km+) disruptor arrays to assist in attacking a target at extreme ranges. Make said arrays only useablenon the VoQ as a reflection of its planetary/station bombardment persona.
R.I.P
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Well if we use the "official" RL terminology "dreadnought" should not be used as a word anyway. After the Washinton Naval treaty of 1921 still existing "dreadnoughts" were reclassified as "battleships", like the Queen Elizabeth class for example.
But then this is a fictional universe and there's little reason why a multispecies organization should use a convention from 1920's earth.;)
And if we go by the strictest definition of a dreadnought, which means all its main guns are of the same caliber, the Galaxy-X is pretty much a reverse of the term since it has a main gun of a different type than the regular strips.
While I agree that bigger ships equal stronger weapons, thing is that good deal of inside space in carrier is dedicated to housing of her craft and support staff. Therefore, carrier cannot use that space to mount additional weapons, power generators, EPS conduits, shield generators and everything else that would make her installed firepower equal to battleship of her size. Which is in game represented by less weapon slots.
Any space carrier going out there without support of other ships is just that: big fat target.
That's essentially the definition of a battlecruiser, so by those terms just about half the ships in the KDF fleet could be deemed "dreadnoughts".
From Wiki:
A battlecruiser, or battle cruiser, was a large capital ship built in the first half of the 20th century. They were similar in size and cost to a battleship, and typically carried the same kind of heavy guns, but battlecruisers generally carried less armour and were faster.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlecruiser
IMHO, dreadnought = battleship, and the only ship that could be called a "dreadnought" in the KDF navy is the Bortasqu'. The Vo'Quv is definitely not one.
That leaves...a lot of room for interpretation actually.
First you say same weight as a cruiser and then not the same weight as a battleship.
The former does not have to mean the same as the latter.
Regarding the former:
There was indeed one type of ship in naval history that had the tonnage of a cruiser (10,000 tons) but battleship weapons...albeit fewer in numbers.
It looked like this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Panzerschiff_Deutschland.jpg
Read more about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerschiff
To the latter:
at the height of the battlecruiser craze the Royal Navy actually built battlecruisers with the same tonnage as the dreadnoughts/battleships at the time.
Compare the R-class battleships
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenge-class_battleship
and the R-class battlecruisers,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renown-class_battlecruiser
which were based on the same frame, had the same tonnage.
But the former had armor while the latter had speed (by quadrupling the engine power) practically no armor and one less gun turret.
Let's not act like this is some failing unique to Cryptic. You can find this most anywhere you'd care to look.
I'm sure your DPS is great, but as Kahless said, "a petaQ with high system mastery is still a petaQ." (Well, he should have said it...!)
Heavy cruiser - Dreadnaught - Battle-cruiser
Excelsior - Ambassador - Galaxy
K'tinga D7 - Vor'cha - Negh'var
however i do believe most of you are being too serious here. my original post was based on a conversation i had with a non-trekky. he flies a vo'quv just as i do, and we both find it funny that something that large wouldnt have more weapons, even if they were just turrets, there's just not enough guns on that ship.
however the main point of this topic was as a joke. Klingon have been undercut in their huge ships. to set the vo'quv apart, i do believe it should have a 4fore 4aft weapons, that'd make it significantly different from the federation atrox, and give the klingons a real weapon. however it shouldnt have cannons. of all the klingon ships, i dont think it should have cannons (maybe something to do if they release a retrofit C-store variant).
ps. the Vo'quv is technically a dreadnought. when you see the ship in PVE missions, it's always labeled as "klingon dreadnought". whether STO's dreadnoughts are what they're supposed to be, it's still a shame the vo'quv doesnt match up better with dreadnoughts like the scimitar. although i guess that's what feddies with the galaxy X has been saying for years.
...and Mirandas are frigates and the Nebula is a cruiser.:rolleyes:
The designations given to NPC ships don't match those of the player ships.
...Since when? Wet navy Dreadnoughts were the first battleships, and the heaviest ships of the line at the time. Battlecruisers were post-Dreadnought developments with "Fast Battleship" contemporaries that were in essence more direct descendants of the Dreadnought line.
Although the only ships called "Dreadnought" in Trek are the Entente (from radio chatter in TMP, ancillary sources place it as the triple-nacelled Federation-class, which may have served as inspiration for the Galaxy-X), B'Elanna's missile, and Into Darkness's Vengeance, the term has been used in other SF (particularly the "other" major franchise with Star in its name) to designate the largest, most heavily armed ships in the fleet... which the Galaxy-X technically qualified for when it was released (8 guns and a spinal lance! Not that that's worth as much anymore), and applies to NPC dreadnoughts, at least when compared to other NPC vessels.
The USA and other nations built very similar ships and called them battleships.
Its like the difference a flat and apartment, same thing called something different in another country.
I love the Vo'Quv and I like to see it get cloaking device on the same lines has the Bort and I'd also like to see it get Raptors has hanger options.
You figure the Vo'Quv has 2 Hanger Bays that can support up to 12 fighters or 4 BOP should at least be able to support 2 Raptors (one for each hanger)
Because it uses standard hangars instead of just having craft latched onto hull. And you can't just pack fighters/BoPs as sardines inside hangar, they need space to operate/lauch/dock there. And it has far more sense than Bort, since one of functions of carrier ship would be maintenance and repair of support craft. And such is far easier done in hangar than with vessel that's just latches onto outer hull - also when carrier shields drop down, anything that hasn't launched by that moment is just liability to that carrier survival.
For folks pushing for Vo'quv getting a cloak, Vo'quv is bigger than Bort so it would be even easier to detect, and thus easy pickings for enemies with cloak and good sensors.
Well duh, everyone knows that if you want us to know you're joking you should post -
I can't agree with this, if this happens the whineage that will follow will overload the server so we won't be playing for days. Furthermore, the sheer amount of whineage would probably result with a cross-faction equivalent, which will then lead to so called 'supercarriers' and all the pet spam will finally put the poor engine out of it's misery. And then we won't have STO to play.
So better not to go there.
You see, this is classic Cryptic you're talking about. That's the way they handle things. The player ships have different classification than their NPC equivalents, even different powers and layouts availible. Why? Only the Great Bird of the Galaxy knows.
I just came out of a Klingon Starbase Defense and we were fignting rebel Gorn. The rebel Gorn used "Phalanx Cruisers" and "Varanus Battleships". I think that says a lot.
I go by the book Cryptic wrote, regardless how wonky it is - the only player ships classified as dreadnoughts are the Scimitar variants and the Galaxy-X.
The ship types are a mess and I believe that's because no one at Cryptic has any Navy experience. They also lacked the foresight to consult with any modern Naval force and educate themselves on ship types. This is why we have ship types such as dreadnaught that don't match the capabilities or function of that type of ship. Futuristic space vessel's mission profiles, capabilities, and functions will match modern ships because be it water or space the combat tactics will require it.
Cryptic needs to reclassify their ships to match modern ship classifications.
Then theres the nature of softening the nature of the ships, Starfleet was a military in denial and was too shy about it to be honest about their ship classifications
Also, the very nature of using old navy vessels as a comparison is slightly flawed, yes its probably the closest thing we have, but then at what point in history do we use it , what ships in Trek could be considered a Gun-Brig? or a Sloop of War? Perhaps its best for Sci fis to have their own independent classification system?
They need not use any of the 15th century ship classifications but they could use modern classes -
Frigate
Destroyer
Cruiser- light, medium, & heavy
Carrier
Battleship
Dreadnaught
Yes we see these ingame already but they don't match the mission profiles of what you'd expect from those ships. Both space and sea ship to ship combat will require the same combat tactics hence the same types of ships with the same functions/capabilities. From what I've seen from the tv shows and movies they use the classic ship to ship combat maneuvers that you'd see in a WWII battle. Missile technology has changed modern ship combat some but shielded ships would definitely use the same tactics as you'd see in WWII.
Science, research, or exploration vessels would all be cruisers with their size determining their classification. TNG's exploration vessel is nothing more than a heavy cruiser outfitted and equipped to meet an alternate mission profile different than a ship of war. Escorts in game are really just light/medium cruisers or destroyers depending on their size. If cryptic classified the ships accordingly then we would have way more variations of ships to fly. Get assigned a light cruiser and let the player decide if it should be equipped to be a ship of war or science vessel.
That sounds plausible but the blame still falls in Cryptic's lap for not thinking outside the box and listening to sheep who can't think outside the box.
My character Tsin'xing
I know it would royally anger most players at first (particularly players who use escorts with all DHCs up front) but the only "universal" weapons should be torpedoes, turrets and beam arrays.
Escorts/raiders and destroyers should have exclusive access to single and dual cannons with crazy high fire rates (low burst damage and high dps over time) along with a better proc rate inherent with the higher fire rate. Meanwhile cruisers/dreadnoughts/carriers should have access to dual beam banks and heavy cannons with high burst damage and a low fire rate and a longer range of fire (12k vs 10k).
This would be a more accurate reflection of the way different ship types/sizes would likely handle weapons of different types.
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.