Of Kar'fis, torpedoes, and pets

kestrellius

So. I'm a tac Klingon (well, Lethean, but whatever), and a while back I got it into my head to do a carrier torpedo boat build, because I'm nuts like that. Obviously, that doesn't work too well with the Vo'quv I'm currently using, because torpwhale is not best whale.

Timetraveling humpback whale is best whale.

Anyway. The point of the torp build is that you don't need weapons power. So you can shunt everything to aux. My original intent was to use elite slavers, and that's still the plan, but I'll also need another build for non-contraband-farming purposes. I was going to grab a Corsair (fleet, because it seems best to always get the fleet version if there is one), but then I realized it only has one hanger bay, and that simply won't do. Then I hit upon the Kar'fi. Same turnrate, two hanger bays, only one fewer weapon. Great!

But I'm still not sure what to use for pets (of the non-contraband-farming variety). I'm considering elite Widows, for shield-stripping purposes. Here's my hypothetical build; I'm using photons for a bunch of reasons that boil down to because why not:

Fore:
Fleet photon torpedo launcher x3, gravimetric photon

Aft: Kinetic cutting beam, tractor mines, web mines

Other gear: probably the Dyson set, because the Dyson set makes everything beautiful

Consoles: lots of fleet RCS consoles, the rep consoles corresponding to the set weapons used, fleet photon damage consoles

Skills: holds, slows, shield-strips, and power drains. Some of this focus on neutering the enemy ship is related to the slaver-using build, which involves making the ship defenseless and then robbing it blind. But I think I'll still use these abilities and weapons for the standard build.

Doffs: the very rare projectile doff "set"

Anyway. So, as I said, I'm considering elite Widows, but I'm also thinking about elite Swarmers, since they fit with the aesthetic I'm going for. I know, I know, a "serious" player shouldn't base these things on looks. But I'm going to anyway. At least in part. I'm also considering the various Fek'ihri pets, the fighters and the frigates. But I'm undecided; I'm not sure what kind of impact not having the anti-shield proc will have on my damage with torps.

Thoughts?

snowpig74

If you use photons then everything over two launchers is a waste. Especially in combination with PWOs. Try torps with higher cooldowns like quantums.

szerontzur

I'd probably recommend running transphasics on it, or slotting the cutting beam and turret(for the proc of your choice) on the front with two torp tubes aft for better coverage. As has been mentioned, that many photon tubes on a single facing does more harm than good. Likewise, having more than one type of mine will cause them to trip over each other; pick one or the other.


In general though, I find the Kar'fi a little too sluggish for a torpedo role unless you're willing to run Orion Interceptors and tractor beams on it. The Elite/Fleet Interceptors get tractor beam, but even the regular and Advanced versions are pretty good at slowing things with their Weapon/Engine drain(the drain beam is red/yellow and would still line up with either photons or transphasics).

lianthelia

Lets see, if you're planning on running no power to weapons then you might as well drop the KCB since it's based on weapon power. Like people have said before me you have way to many photons since you plan to use doffs.

I'm not trying to tell you what to do but normally torp boats use lots of shield *negating* torps, like Transphasic, Plasma, and the Hargh'peng. Without several of them, even with your drain abilities your damage will be dismal against anything with shields, all it takes is a sliver of shield to ruin your day.

kestrellius

Okay. I had been using transphasics, but they seem to have really low damage. Same with chronitons.

Oh is the KCB based on weapons power? What I'd been told was that it was just a projectile weapon in beam form, even though it drains weapon power for some reason. If that's not the case, then yeah, I'd best drop it.

So if I'm going to go with transphasics, should I use fleet ones, or use all rapid-reloads? And of course the cluster torp is a given.

noroblad

The karfi has a good ltcmdr sci officer.

Your choices BEGS that you use the gravity well torp from dyson with good science consoles/deflectior and officer. I am thinking torp spread the gravity torp to start, drop a tyken's on the enemy pile stuck in the well, and then watch them die. And *that* strategy makes the idea of a tricobalt torp attractive, for the aoe pile.

Trouble with torp boats is its tempting to not use all 1 type. Everytime I go there I keep thinking generic torp damage consoles and a variety of nasty items is better than all focused. But a focused plasma build is very nasty too, for a single target.... the consoles are cheap, carry both might work depending on the fight?

BTW I use DBB on my carrier, so 90 degree arc is absolutely doable on a carrier.

Another odd thought: fill your backside with shield drain turrets, tetryon or whatever type it is that has the proc .... its not for the dps, its for the shield stripping. You have enough tac on that ship that you may even have room for one copy of scatter for the turrets, blast everything in the GW pile...

kestrellius

Hm. Could work. Although I don't really like the idea of having any energy weapons on the thing. Kind of ruins the whole point.

And yeah that's part of why I was considering photons; I could boost the damage from the gravimetric.

The trouble with tricobalts is that they're so SLOW. They either get sparkled out of existence by something's AoE attack halfway there, or don't reach the target until well after it's been taken down.

Come to think of it though, with the Spire consoles, people have been saying that rainboats are now pretty viable. Same could be the case for torps. Hm, what would we call a torp!rainbow build? A gumdrop build?

szerontzur

kestrellius wrote: »

....

So if I'm going to go with transphasics, should I use fleet ones, or use all rapid-reloads? And of course the cluster torp is a given.

2x Cluster Launcher, 2x Rapid Launcher up front. Aft: go with a Cluster, Rapid, and whichever mine you decide to use. Projectile Doffs will be your friend.

The Breen 2-set does wonders for the setup until you get your hands on the KHG 2-set. I'd suggest going with the Breen Engines and Deflector, if you go that route, so you can still put a decent shield on your ship.

The main catch with Transphasics is that while you'll rip apart most ships fairly quickly, your damage against high-hull targets/structures will be less than if you use a different torpedo type. You can generally obliterate anything smaller than a battleship with a single cluster torp, but the lower base damage really bites you against borg generators and tac cubes.

Also, Transphasics(and Plasmas) are a poor choice against the Voth with all their point-defense. If you're planning on going up against them, I definitely recommend Photons or Quantums.


As for 'Rainbow' builds, there's an old "Exotic Launcher" build that was used on Vo'Quvs and B'rels a long time ago that involved the Cluster Launcher, Harghpeng, and a Tricobalt. It still works(especially now with the new consoles), and you could probably throw in the Romulan Hyper Launcher with it, but it's not particularly any more effective than a Transphasic or Plasma loadout(and still suffers from the same point-defense issue).

kestrellius

Okay. So I'm currently looking mainly at transphasics: three rapid-reloads and a cluster fore, and one rapid-reload, cluster, and Tholian mines aft. Those cluster torps are great. I cloakvaped a fleetmate earlier in a PvP duel with one. He was down to pretty low health, and he cloaked, but the torp had already locked on. It was brilliant.

On the other hand, since I'm planning to use recharge doffs, should I even bother with the rapids, or should I just go with fleet launchers?

EDIT: Oh yeah and I was flying my Vo'Quv. Score was 7/0 when we finished. He gave me a pretty good run for my money though.

szerontzur

It all depends how much consistency you want. The rapids will predictably fire more often while the fleets will leave more up to luck.

kestrellius

Okay. How significant is the damage difference, though?

noblet

kestrellius wrote: »

Okay. How significant is the damage difference, though?

Use rapids. Frankly, they're not there to do real spike dmg, that's the cluster's job. They're there to trigger projectile doffs, which happens every time a torp is fired. 2 regular torps will leave you with gaps. You don't want to deal with dry season...

kestrellius

Okay. Thanks!