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Request: Ztore B'rel changes & Heavy Torpedo changes
cmdrskyfaller
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Devs,
The B'rel Tier 5 needs a few minor changes so that it can perform its role function as outlined in the ship's unique abilities.
Item 1:
Raider +15 weapon power.
...umm.. why? In a ship that is weaker than the tier 4 free bird of prey raider and which has as its 'unique' ability the enhanced battle cloak which does not work with energy weapons, why does this ship have +15 weapon power?
Item 2:
There is a problem with this ship being a Zstore vessel that does not come with a ship-specific console for the enhanced cloak. The problem is that anyone buying the Fleet version not only get the enhanced cloak but an extra console slot PLUS more hull and shields.
Aside from the B'rel, and because of the B'rel being a niche torpedo ship, the issues with heavy torpedoes comes out.
Heavy Torpedoes are slow, destructible, aoe high damage torpedoes. By itself it is ok...but why not link the damage bonus of these torpedoes to the AUX power setting? AUX power because if weapon power is used then all escort type ships get a massive bonus to torpedo damage on top of the bonus they'd get to energy weapons.
Suggestions:
Item 1:
This can be resolved in three ways:
A) Swap the +15 weapon power for +15 engine power. A Raider that attacks from stealth and whose enhanced cloak does not function with energy weapons would rely on its speed.
-or-
Swap the +15 wepon power for +15 Aux power. If Heavy Torpedo damage bonus is linked to AUX power setting then the +15 AUX power on this Raider BoP makes sense as it would help boost the Heavy Torps.... and this ship does not use energy weapons.
Item 2:
This can be fixed in 2 ways:
A) Since science ships are getting secondary deflectors soon, the B'rel could be simply re-classified as a science ship so it gets a secondary deflector and sensor analysis..but it has no subsystem attacks. Note the sensor analysis acts as the 'fourth tactical console' after 1 minute of keeping target locked and inside 10km range...this is not unbalancing given the torpedo's weak damage vs shields. As a science raider, the B'rel can equip the Enhanced Battle Cloak as a secondary deflector item.
Summary:
- Re-classify B'rel Retrofit as a Science Raider. Remove Subsystem Attacks, leave Sensor Analysis.
- Remove enhanced cloak as built-in feature, replace with 'enhanced cloak' as secondary deflector (B'rel Only item).
- As a science ship it would trade its +15 wep power for +15 Aux power & it would make Aux-Boosted heavy torpedo effects synergize with the b'rel's enhanced cloak niche.
-or-
Remove the enhanced cloak from the Zstore B'rel as a built in feature and make it into a Device. The Fleet B'rel would not come with the enhanced cloak device. The device is active all the time as long as the B'rel has it equipped. Device is B'rel only item.
Heavy Torpedo damage boosted by AUX Power setting:
The concept is simple. Its almost the same as a Beam Overload really. Each torpedo that can fire in 'heavy' mode starts with is baseline 'heavy' damage...when fired, the torpedo drains all AUX power and uses that power to boost its damage.
Given the nature of the heavy torpedo...them being destructible and slow I think this is a fair compromise.
Alternatively, the torpedoes could have the AUX power boost not their instant damage directly but other things.
Plasma: Boosts burn strength & duration.
Thermionic: Increased power drain effect (@125 wep power = -50 drain?)
Tricobalt: heavy tricobalt has 100% guaranteed subspace rift proc, power setting increases size of that rift.
Temporal Disruption Device: Increases speed debuff from 33% to a max of 90% (if wep power at 125!) in blast radius.
The B'rel Tier 5 needs a few minor changes so that it can perform its role function as outlined in the ship's unique abilities.
Item 1:
Raider +15 weapon power.
...umm.. why? In a ship that is weaker than the tier 4 free bird of prey raider and which has as its 'unique' ability the enhanced battle cloak which does not work with energy weapons, why does this ship have +15 weapon power?
Item 2:
There is a problem with this ship being a Zstore vessel that does not come with a ship-specific console for the enhanced cloak. The problem is that anyone buying the Fleet version not only get the enhanced cloak but an extra console slot PLUS more hull and shields.
Aside from the B'rel, and because of the B'rel being a niche torpedo ship, the issues with heavy torpedoes comes out.
Heavy Torpedoes are slow, destructible, aoe high damage torpedoes. By itself it is ok...but why not link the damage bonus of these torpedoes to the AUX power setting? AUX power because if weapon power is used then all escort type ships get a massive bonus to torpedo damage on top of the bonus they'd get to energy weapons.
Suggestions:
Item 1:
This can be resolved in three ways:
A) Swap the +15 weapon power for +15 engine power. A Raider that attacks from stealth and whose enhanced cloak does not function with energy weapons would rely on its speed.
-or-
Swap the +15 wepon power for +15 Aux power. If Heavy Torpedo damage bonus is linked to AUX power setting then the +15 AUX power on this Raider BoP makes sense as it would help boost the Heavy Torps.... and this ship does not use energy weapons.Item 2:
This can be fixed in 2 ways:
A) Since science ships are getting secondary deflectors soon, the B'rel could be simply re-classified as a science ship so it gets a secondary deflector and sensor analysis..but it has no subsystem attacks. Note the sensor analysis acts as the 'fourth tactical console' after 1 minute of keeping target locked and inside 10km range...this is not unbalancing given the torpedo's weak damage vs shields. As a science raider, the B'rel can equip the Enhanced Battle Cloak as a secondary deflector item.
Summary:
- Re-classify B'rel Retrofit as a Science Raider. Remove Subsystem Attacks, leave Sensor Analysis.
- Remove enhanced cloak as built-in feature, replace with 'enhanced cloak' as secondary deflector (B'rel Only item).
- As a science ship it would trade its +15 wep power for +15 Aux power & it would make Aux-Boosted heavy torpedo effects synergize with the b'rel's enhanced cloak niche.
-or-
Remove the enhanced cloak from the Zstore B'rel as a built in feature and make it into a Device. The Fleet B'rel would not come with the enhanced cloak device. The device is active all the time as long as the B'rel has it equipped. Device is B'rel only item.Heavy Torpedo damage boosted by AUX Power setting:
The concept is simple. Its almost the same as a Beam Overload really. Each torpedo that can fire in 'heavy' mode starts with is baseline 'heavy' damage...when fired, the torpedo drains all AUX power and uses that power to boost its damage.
Given the nature of the heavy torpedo...them being destructible and slow I think this is a fair compromise.
Alternatively, the torpedoes could have the AUX power boost not their instant damage directly but other things.
Plasma: Boosts burn strength & duration.
Thermionic: Increased power drain effect (@125 wep power = -50 drain?)
Tricobalt: heavy tricobalt has 100% guaranteed subspace rift proc, power setting increases size of that rift.
Temporal Disruption Device: Increases speed debuff from 33% to a max of 90% (if wep power at 125!) in blast radius.
![http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg[/SIGPIC]](http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg[/SIGPIC]){kind=link}
Post edited by cmdrskyfaller on
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Comments
Exchange +15 Weapon Power (substantially useless) for +15 Auxiliary Power (permanently useful) on all B'rel Retrofits.
Add Sensor Analysis passive to all B'rel Retrofits, but add a requirement that the effect is only enabled/active while Enhanced Battle Cloak is engaged (ie. toggled on).
All B'rel Retrofits have Mission Pods (see shipyard costume editor), which can carry the Secondary Deflector permitted to Science Vessels.
All B'rel Retrofits increase their Impulse Modifier from 0.2 to 0.22.
DONE.
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
It still does not address the fact that the fleet b'rel > zstore b'rel without paying its cost in zen (you can buy fleet modules via exchange).
The zstore b'rel needs to have the enhanced cloak as a unique item that comes with this zstore ship. As long as the fleet brel gets the enhanced cloak for free the zstore purchased ones are getting a kick in the nuts.
I'm pretty sure that's *intentional* on Cryptic's part ... as in the Fleet B'rel is supposed to be better than the non-Fleet B'rel by just a little bit.
No it doesn't (have to have something extra).
That said, I wouldn't be averse to getting a Raider Only Mission Pod that could be slotted into the Secondary Deflector spot. Exactly what such an item would *DO* would be open for discussion, but that's about as far as I'd be willing to go on that score.
Um ... you seem to have fundamentally missed the point of something that really shouldn't have to need explaining ...
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
Except that players buying the C-store one gain the discount for buying a Fleet Refit. Those who buy the Fleet one WITHOUT first buying the C-store version get socked with the full fleet module cost EACH time they buy it. That alone will sustain the sale value of the C-store version compaired to the fleet refit.
I like that idea. I really think the B'rel should be more of a science ship rather than aimed at tactical captains. Most people who use them seem to be science captains anyway. Maybe this also steams from the fact there aren't much options for science ships on the KDF side. Something still not addressed. I am not going to mention that horrible anniversary ship and it's upcoming pack.
But this is a nice suggestion one of the better ones I have seen. Though I still advocate that Bird of Preys needs to be more durable, the old battle-cloak argument is moot nowadays.
Or, why not release three versions of B'rel for each type of captain? That way the players can use the captain of their choice, and cryptic would increase their sales of the B'rel, everyone's a winner, except the feds of course
I think it is you two who are missing the point.
Fleet ships are supposed to provide hull/shield stats and one console extra as the 'improvements' to the ship line. Ships that in the Zstore have unique consoles do not gain the console automatically by buying the fleet version. They need to have the Fleet and the Zstore version to be able to use that unique console on the Fleet ship.
People always bring up the Exeter on this discussion as some sort of justification. If what I'm saying applies to the B'rel then it would apply to ANY zstore ship with built in abilities: It needs to be detached from the ship and be a console of some sort. For the Exeter it could literally just become a Device or a Warp Core... I don't care really since this thread is not about the Exeter.
Cost-wise, the Fleet Modules can be purchased with EC off the exchange. That alone makes fleet vessels EASY to acquire without the grind for dilithium->zen conversion and makes it easy to simply not put real-money into zen.
Now obviously the people that already bought the fleet B'rel would simply receive the enhanced cloak console/device/whatever onto their inventory once the enhanced cloak is removed from the ship hull itself. This change would affect only future purchases.
...because there is no point in doing so? A 'science' b'rel does not lose any of its 'tac' ship abilities since it is still a bird of prey with full universal stations, 4 fore 3 aft weapon slots. By gaining a secondary deflector slot to load the enhanced cloak it does not become a full science ship nor is it full science since it does not have subsystem targeting (and wouldnt use it really due to enhanced cloak). It would literally be a klingon warship that has sci-ship like features that help it do its tac role.
...and it sets it aside from all other birds of prey types which are full tac based.
Yeah a great way to TRIBBLE off people who spent the $20 in the c-store for it. Punishing those just because a few people are upset that people just bought the fleet version. No offense but this is a stupid idea. If someone wants to spend the 2000 zen and just buy the fleet version who are we, you or the dev's to say they can't have the cloak.
But someone has to buy them first, either with real zen/money or via the dilithium exchange, who someone else bought the zen and converted it into dilithium. Either way someone paid the real money even if it was a sub or lifetimer with their stipend. So Cryptic still gets their money.
I tell you one thing, if they did change it into a console, I would be in the group demanding my money back as that is not what I bought. If you're using this argument then all ships should have cloaks as consoles and those ships would be given an additional console slot (including the free Klingon and Romulan ships) to slot in the cloak so they aren't at a disadvantage.
To me it sounds like you're upset because some people don't buy the c-store version. So what, it's their money their characters and they shouldn't be forced to buy something they probably won't use. To be honest too much in this game is forced upon players why add more to that.
Takes a few weeks for the Cruisers to get their ''Cruiser Commands'' buff after the Fed Avenger class came out, and the Raider class still have no buff's for 2+ months... another beat down on the KDF by Cryptic, they only add stuff to the KDF only if it suits their needs.
And his is a theoretical argument at best. Only Cryptic/Perfect World would have the data to either prove or disprove his argument, and they are not obligated to share that with us. It sounds to me like he is just getting upset over just one possible result in a thought experement.
Right now those that did buy the zstore version should be pissed because the fleet version has the unique ability of a zstore ship PLUS an extra console, more armor,shields, etc.
Grinding dilithium to zen to purchase the zstore version is ten times more grind intensive than just buying the fleet modules with EC in exchange and then paying a minimal amount of dilithium on top. In neither of those two scenarios cryptic got any money but only the zstore purchaser got shafted bad by the fleet version having the unique ability plus the extra stuff.
You'd be demanding money back for your zstore ship receiving an extra slot (be it console or device slot) to put the enhanced cloak in... ok that's dumb since you still have the same exact ship anyway (a bit better if you decide not to equip the enhanced cloak anyways).... and as I said, those who already own the fleet version would not lose the enhanced cloak console (after conversion) since this change is not retroactively applied. Only future purchasers are affected.
No, I'm upset that the fleet version gets the enhanced cloak for free. It makes my purchase of the zstore version diminished because the fleet version gets it and with extra goodies on top.
...and I really would like to see the B'rel as a sci-raider plus the changes to the heavy torps.