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Stealth Torp Boat 2.0 suggestions
ironmako
Member Posts: 770 Arc User
Hi my fellow Kinks!
Ok, So I've been running the B'rel (with the enhanced battle cloak) for some time now, but I have noticed that recently, those pesky feds are getting more wise as time goes on, and now I am finding my latest builds becoming ineffective to the point of not doing any real damage. Happily I can blow them out of the sky, but only when their shields drop, and that is getting to be almost impossible to achieve (for me anyways).
In the early days, I could enjoy the heavy tricobalt devices which would happily vaporise any ship with weak shields. then after they were rendered useless, I moved onto transphasics. Again, provided some lovely kills, but they seem to be getting little effect now.
Recently its been all about the super plasma's, like the Omega and the Romulan torps, but they are only effective when another ship has broken its shields down, and if you go high yield, they get destroyed mid-flight anyways.
Now to help me disable my target, I used to be able to hit them with the Jam sensors, the viral martix and the tach beam to help remove the shields, but even they just seemed to be getting shrugged off. I have even spaced my shield dropping techniques to allow the enemy to use their heals up, but that doesn't work either.
Every heavy torp/device/cluster torp just gets blown out of space before reaching its victim, so I think these all have to now be considered obsolete. Even mine laying is pointless as they also just get shot out of space as well.
Because of this, I think us Stealth Torp boat owners need to get together to find a new method of really derping the feds.
So I appeal to those with an expert mind in stealth torp'ing to help me (and of course this forum) in how to effectively:
a) take down the shields effectively
b) choice of torp for high damage, low cooldown, and torps which cannot be targeted or brought down by the enemy.
c) full setup of engines, shields deflector, and of course the consoles.
I know that other top boat threads exist, but every single one is about the har'pengs, the transphasics, the plama torps. I need a new approach.
I have heard about the bio neurals, and the quantums, but i am not used to using them, so again any advice will be appreciated.
I am ready to try any suggestions that you guys may have!
Ok, So I've been running the B'rel (with the enhanced battle cloak) for some time now, but I have noticed that recently, those pesky feds are getting more wise as time goes on, and now I am finding my latest builds becoming ineffective to the point of not doing any real damage. Happily I can blow them out of the sky, but only when their shields drop, and that is getting to be almost impossible to achieve (for me anyways).
In the early days, I could enjoy the heavy tricobalt devices which would happily vaporise any ship with weak shields. then after they were rendered useless, I moved onto transphasics. Again, provided some lovely kills, but they seem to be getting little effect now.
Recently its been all about the super plasma's, like the Omega and the Romulan torps, but they are only effective when another ship has broken its shields down, and if you go high yield, they get destroyed mid-flight anyways.
Now to help me disable my target, I used to be able to hit them with the Jam sensors, the viral martix and the tach beam to help remove the shields, but even they just seemed to be getting shrugged off. I have even spaced my shield dropping techniques to allow the enemy to use their heals up, but that doesn't work either.
Every heavy torp/device/cluster torp just gets blown out of space before reaching its victim, so I think these all have to now be considered obsolete. Even mine laying is pointless as they also just get shot out of space as well.
Because of this, I think us Stealth Torp boat owners need to get together to find a new method of really derping the feds.
So I appeal to those with an expert mind in stealth torp'ing to help me (and of course this forum) in how to effectively:
a) take down the shields effectively
b) choice of torp for high damage, low cooldown, and torps which cannot be targeted or brought down by the enemy.
c) full setup of engines, shields deflector, and of course the consoles.
I know that other top boat threads exist, but every single one is about the har'pengs, the transphasics, the plama torps. I need a new approach.
I have heard about the bio neurals, and the quantums, but i am not used to using them, so again any advice will be appreciated.
I am ready to try any suggestions that you guys may have!
Post edited by ironmako on
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Comments
If you're bothering with attempts at shield depletion, you might as well reach for a Dual Beam Bank and Beam Overload. Of course, if you're using a Beam of any kind, the Enhanced Battle Cloak on the B'rel Retrofit effectively becomes superfluous, such that you'd be (overall) "better off" using any beefier/heavier ship (Raptors come to mind) that merely features a Battle Cloak instead.
With (pure) torpedo boat B'rels the name of the game is shield bypass, not shield battering and knockdown. Hull damage is the point, not shield damage.
In that case you're pretty much stuck with "bog standard" torpedoes, since most of the special torpedoes have longer cooldown times. You're pretty much stuck with 8 seconds unmodified as being the "minimum performance" level to aim for, due to how that inter(re)acts with 3 purple Projectile Weapon DOffs for (nearly) continuous fire (particularly with a Romulan Torpedo in the forward arc mix).
That said, I personally rather prefer the option of putting the Romulan Torpedo on the forward arc and moving the Omega Torpedo into the aft arc alongside a Mine Launcher. The Omega Torpedo really makes up for a lot of its "shortcomings" (particularly now that it has been bug fixed to no longer have infinite ammo) by being able to unload a lot of shots in a very short span of time while maneuvering outbound in preparation for making another forward arc attack run. It seems to make for a rather "optimal" use of the Omega Torpedo in my build due to wanting to keep the forward arc pointed towards target(s) as much as possible (yielding maximum reloading potential to the Omega Torpedo).
Of course, if you're using the Romulan and Omega Torpedoes, that then becomes a strong incentive to stock up everything else with Plasma Torpedoes and Plasma Mines, slot Plasma Projectile boosting Tactical Consoles, snag the Romulan Rep Plasma Console (for the 2-set bonus with Romulan Torpedo), pile on the Klingon Honor Guard set (2 or 3 pieces for bonus torpedo damage), dial up Auxiliary Power to 130 to maximize Plasma Fire DoT, crank up the engines and zip around the battlefield. If you don't like making your torpedoes destructible in flight, use Torpedo Spread instead of High Yield.
Klingon Honor Guard. Done.
Consoles ... whatever fits the rest of your build.
Um ... this falls under the heading of "if it works it ain't stupid" really. There's a reason why "every single one" is about har'pengs, transphasics and plamsa types ... because those are the kinds that can inflict damage directly to hull through shields. It's really not a mystery.
Now, if Cryptic were to release an "anti-shield" Torpedo/Mine that inflicts massive damage to shields and little damage to hull (think EMP Torpedo/Mines if you must), THEN we could have an entirely different (and much more interesting!) discussion. Until then, it's either bypass the shields or batter the shields down through brute force.
That leaves Photons (pointless), Chronitons (exotic but weak) and Tricobalts (exotic and potentially self defeating). Pretty much the only reason to use Chronitons would be in a team setting, where you can set up opponents to get blasted by an ally. A lot of the time that kind of coordination just winds up being more trouble than it's worth.
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
Right now, I'm using transphasics. Shield penetration is really the way to go. Tricobalts and the Bio-Neural don't have the punch to batter down someones shield anymore, and they are slow and - especially the tricobalt - dangerous to fire point blank.
The big hitter I always carry is the Breen Transphasic Cluster Torpedo. It's an excellent weapon to fire point blank to have a pretty high chance of a hit. If you are worried about stuff like tractor beams, carry a Jam Sensors with you to make sure your target doesn't see you fire the torp. With Sensor Scan (or Fire on My Mark for a Tac) it can provide some big hits, especially if you have a good amount of CritD.
Apart from the normal transphasics (CritH/CritD variant, because I use Torpedo Spread, and that doesn't miss) and the Breen Cluster, I carry a Har'pengh. It's aftershock is just nifty. Also clears a bit of spam floating around.
Aft, I usually slot the Romulan Torpedo to get the cooldown doffs rolling. Not really there for damage, just for the doffs. That, or Tractor Beam Mines.
Lastly, I use Nukara Web Mines. They're a bit cheesy but they do some nice damage. With a Dispersal Pattern 2 or 3, you'll put the hurt on someone, if they hit. Their damage is also boosted by aux, which you should be running max anyway. To make sure they hit, I've got several immobilzers.
1) Gravity Well - Since the buff, it's actually rather effective on the less mobile ships. Grav well them, drop the mines, swoop around for the Breen Cluster.
2) Subspace Black Hole console. The one that reduces flight speed by 99% or something. Again, a bit of cheese, but dumping the baseball of doom on someone before dropping your mines gives you a good chance of hitting them.
3) Viral Matrix - I switch doffs on the fly if my Gravity Wells aren't doing much good. Doffed Viral can be quite nasty.
4) Tractor Mines - Harder to use now with all the Gravity Wells and FaW floating around, but every once in a while I manage to catch someone with them.
5) Theta/Warp Plasma - Riskier, but doable. You'll have to have eighter good hull resistance with some nice healing power, or a Jam Sensors that doesn't break too quickly.
Of course, as a Science captain, immobilizers are easier to use when combined with Subnuke. Nuke off their Omega/Aux2Damp/PH/Whatever, snare them and commence bombardment.
Right now, I've got some more testing to do on the new traits (Increase mine chasing range - and - Confuse on torpedo hit) and the Hirogen console. The Alpha Deception Field should prove to be a nice "get out of harms way" console while also resetting your boff (and right now, captain, although not sure how long that'll last) abilities.
Lastly, and very enjoyable, get a friend to be your wingman. It's quite good fun to hunt with two or more torpedo B'rels. Make sure you supplement eachother. One could snare using Jam and Theta (maybe on a sci for added subnuke glory) and be more Sci heavy, while the other can be a Tac heavy hard hitter.
As for your question as to untargetable torpedos: I doubt you'll get anyone with them. Sadly, it's HY (or Breen) or go home, I guess. You could always fire them point blank to minimize the risk of them getting shot down, however backsplash might be a problem with plasma's. I haven't tried the High Yield Gravimetric Torpedo yet, so I couldn't comment on if it has backsplash, but I know the Elachi Subspace one does not. With a couple of consoles, that puppy can hit quite nasty numbers.
This is my stealth bomber. I use the Reman set to boost up High Yield plasma torps, along with the Rule 62 console for more torp/mine damage. The Stealth Module has +plasma damage and -threat. The engineering skills are mostly for if I mess up.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
Forgive me for asking this (after all this time, i'm still crunching numbers) but what makes the KHG better for the torp boat?
Also, I have the doffs for the PW's, but for the boffs I have heard that its better to have a fully laden Romulan crew as you get the stealth bonuses and the PW's, is this still the way to go (i've been away for a while)
Also, increasing your stealth bonuses, what actual difference will this make to your ship? I was always thinking that either you are cloaked or not cloaked, so i'm not sure how you can become "more stealthy" (unless it speeds up the brief moment that your cloak actually drops)
Yesterday, I decided to go all-transphasics on the front, 2x breen clusters, 1x Rapid fire, 1x normal transphasic.
I did forget to mention that my captain is a tac.
I have a jem'hadar boff who is purely geared for torps and mines, and with the tranny torps, I actually found that I was really chastising the feds in Ker'rat last night, so I'm going to continue onwards with the pure transphasics for now whilst I look at all the other options.
KHG 2 pc set bonus is 25% increase to torpedo damage.
Take a lesson from the Voth and start melting ships straight through their shields with direct hull damage. With enough Particle Gen gearing and captain skill, you can even turn a tractor beam into a direct hull-melting weapon(regardless of whether they activate a hold neutralizer). As an added bonus, Feedback Pulse will be especially deadly if you manage to get caught.
I doubt many people will be expecting their weapons fire at such a 'fragile' ship to be reflected back at them(or be patent enough to let you go) as you re-cloak yourself. Gravity Wells could also prove to be a great way to distract and restrict movement(an enemy vapper is not going to pursue a target through one unless they have a deathwish).
Fore = Quantum, Bio-Neural, Cluster, and Hargh'Peng.
Aft = Hyper Plasma, Grav Photon
Consoles:
Eng = Fleet Neut, Aceton Assimilators, Rule 62, Voth Depth Charge
Sci = Fleet Particle Generator, Elachi Black Hole, Impulse Burst
Tact = 3x Fleet generic torp consoles
Ship:
Warp core = whatever Elite warp core that gives power to Aux and has AMP
Deflector = KHG
Shields = KHG
Engines = Aegis
I have a Lt Cmd Sci with the following:
Jam Sensors, Hazard Emitters, Gravity Well
I use the Elachi console to escape, or hit someone while they are being sucked in to the Gravity Well. I also use the Depth Charge on anyone stuck in the GW. I use Jam Sensors right before I start firing, so they can't see me. That's the time that I hit them with GW as well.
Impulse Burst to get away.
I remember when Picard first encountered the Borg, and the Borg shot a device which only attacked the shields and took the shields down by around 30% each time. such advice would be lovely against the feds which overuse shield heals and shield bonuses.
Its a shame the boarding party shuttles are sitting ducks as I find that they can rain havoc down onto most enemies which encounter them...
Aux boosts plasma torpedo DoTs? I thought it was only modified by torpedo skill tree points and plasma torpedo/general torpedo tac consoles.
I know it's not buffed by particle gens.
Does aux power add damage to Eject Warp Plasma?
KDF Tac: Bortasqu' Tactical
Fed Tac: Fleet Gal-X
Keep those big guns a-thunderin'
I haven't done anywhere NEAR enough regression testing to generate statistically useful data that conclusively speaks one way or the other. However, I definitely get the *feeling* when playing that the skill points affect the instantaneous "impact" damage (as expected), but that any DoT effects are buffed instead by Aux Power instead of Skills (which is weird but does kind of make sense).
I noticed this first with Nukara Web Mines, which are 0% impact, 100% DoT weapons. You can try it out yourself, just sitting in orbit with the Web Mines equipped. Hover your mouse cursor over the Web Mines icon so you can see the tooltip for them (that shows their damage output) and then raise and lower your Aux Power using different power settings or Emergency Power To Auxiliary. You should see the damage numbers on the tooltip CHANGE in real time as your Aux Power levels shift.
The same thing happens with Plasma Torpedoes and Mines ... where the damage output numbers will "move" with changing Aux Power levels(!).
I tested all of the other "basic" torpedo and mine types (photon, quantum, chroniton, transphasic, tricobalt) and NONE of them had the damage numbers shown on their tooltips "move" in response to changing Aux Power levels. Only Nukara Web Mines and Plasma Torpedoes and Mines "responded" to changes in Aux Power levels as reported by the mouse hover tooltip. The other "basic" torpedo and mine types are 100% impact, 0% DoT ... while Web Mines are 0% impact, 100% DoT ... and Plasma Torpedoes and Mines are partial impact, partial DoT.
You are invited to draw your own conclusions and gather your own evidence if you don't believe me.
Nope, it's not. Particle Generators typically affect "exotic" damage sources, which tend to be BOff skills (such as Eject Warp Plasma) as opposed to Weapons that get slotted into the forward and aft arcs of your ship.
I'm not *aware* of Warp Plasma damage being driven/advantaged by Aux Power. If it was, I'm sure that some A2B Cruiser Captains would have discovered that fact already and reported it all over the forums. Indeed, it ought to be a simple enough proposition to test, since A2B makes such a tremendous difference in Aux Power levels ... but again, I suspect that Warp Plasma has nothing to do with Aux Power.
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
Well there are Ferengi Tachyon Mines in the Lobi store, but that is just one weapon at the moment.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
They've also been reduced in effectiveness by A LOT.
front: 2 clusters, 2 rapid reload
back: Trans mines, tractor mines, rapid reload
set: 2 breen (+transphasics), elite fleet -sci cooldown deflector
consoles:
black hole, antimatter, bioneural circuits
borg, impulse, stealth module
4xtransphasic compressors
boffs (all ops/superior ops):
TT
THY1, DPB1, TS3, APO3
HE, SS, GW
TB, SS
EpteE, A2Damp
doffs:
2x Projectile recharge
1x a2damp damage resist
1x scramble sensors
1x gravimetric
I also use the confuse trait form the hirogen box.
Aux power maxed and the rest in engines.
Its a pretty nasty and annoying torp boat. Lots of fun to play. I wonder wether a diversified torp setup could do more damage tho. My alpha is tractor, grav well, scramble, cluster, torp spread, drop mines on top of them, turn around, second cluster, high yields and then maybe subnuke/blackhole if they're not dead yet. All this damage goes through shields so you don't have to look at shields at all which makes it great to pick off wounded targets (kill through RSP) as well.