STO's not supposed to a be a second job. If the grind is getting you down, ask yourself a question: "Is that new ship/console/whatever going to be worth all this time and energy?" If the answer is no, take a break and go do something purely for fun. Sure, it's a waste of time, but isn't that what computer games are for?
That might be reasonable but that is simply not how an mmo players brain works. A payoff for the invested time is kind of the base of it all.
Especially if we have multiple characters that need equipment. Its not like PVP and being good in stfs isn't fun too.
The thing is: Cryptic doesn't earn money when we do their repeatable content. They don't get 10 cent for every one qing. They earn money by keeping us (or trying to keep us) intrestet, they want us to logg in every if possible, and spend money on c-store stuff to make playing the existing content more fun for us.
The problem with the metrics is simple (I tried to explain that in my post):
Right now their numbers say that Missions have no replay value, since people do not replay them.
And their conclusion is: People are not interested in those missions. A few even might not be... but a lot are.
The issue is: There is no reason for us to do so (beside of enjoying the mission obviously), not no reward that brings character progression. This is why a lot of people keep playing the repetitive reputation missions instead of story missions.
This is a repeating pattern in this game:
The KDF players always complain about too little stuff (costumes, ships, take whatever area you want).
The lack of content on KDF side keeps a lot of people away. Not the fact that they don't want to play kdf, the fact that the KDF in unfinished (even the new romulans have more stuff, and they are not even a full faction....) .
Cryptics conclusion: They don't like the kdf, so we do not invest resources.
Same for ship interiors: There is nothing to do there, they do not even have a vanity use because of their lack of customization, they are an unfinished feature. So ppl do not use them. I have met more then a few other players who do not even know how to get there (and some of them play for years).
So instead of integrating those interiors into the actual gameplay in some way Cryptic numbers say "They do not sell, people don't visit them, so no money here, no investment".
Here specifically a lot of money could be made if they would just be "fixed".
They just look at the numbers and never question why the numbers are the way they are.
Not sure if the KDF is the best example (Though they could do with several new missions - some of which could be made by Foundry authors), but I agree with this fully.
I don't need new ships to do party content. And if that's all I have to look forward to, there's little point in sticking about. I genuinely liked the story in STO, but if its not going to continue on a relatively regular basis, what's the point in coming through the door?
They've sold things to me, not through lockboxes, or Qmendation boxes, or summer event token boxes, but because I'm invested in the story and the character and I want new toys to go into that with. Its why I slogged at the game to get my main a Wells class. Not because I had some daily party event.
I agree story episodes are costly, but its going to be more costly if people just lose interest because there's nothing to look forward to in terms of real story progression. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the servers normally collapse when featured series are happening, surely that's drawing people in.
Personally, I think it needs to be in balance, lockboxes etc. for people who don't mind/ enjoy that sort of thing, and a some kind of strong, fairly regular story progression, preferably through Featured Series, for at least fairly regular progression of some kind, eg. the dyson sphere and associated rep system did progress the story (though missions at each tier like Rom rep would have been an improvement).
...This too. Personally, I haven't spent any money on this game because I don't see anything worthwhile to do on a new bridge or interior, or with a shiny new ship, or with a fourth character, or with extra bank slots... Once I'm Level 50, it seems, I've seen it all, short of Foundry missions and little bits of content that only come through days of stupid, mindless grind, time that I should really be using developing my own ships in Starmade, my own missions in the Foundry - or, heck, my own game.
Based upon Geko's interviews, CBS is to the point where they are mostly hands off with Cryptic in terms of the IP. They trust Cryptic. They touch base from time to time, but that seems to be it.
Wha... Is CBS really that uncaring about the one game that can use that IP? Personally, whn I take one look at Earth Spacedock and see the ships flying around, I already see a bunch of things that really don't feel "right" for a Star Trek game... Not that there's anything that quite contradicts canon; it just doesn't continue to follow its pattern.
Now in response to a few ideas put forth in the thread along with soome other points made. Cryptic could (should) be making the small mini-arc missions every few/several weeks apart. These can be bottle missions for STO the MMORPG, meaning they use existing assets with maybe a few touches or dressing her and there. There can be arc which advance some aspect of the current pllot. Or the can monsters/menance of the week stories. Don't make them The twist I would make would be making the quests for each faction in turn. Give players a reason to keep for the new content.
I agree fully with this as well.
A response to the use the Foundry argument, the Foundry missions, even as well as some of them are, are fan fiction. They aren't "official" in terms of canon an the STO ST-verse. That's the sort of content that I want to play
Yeah... Honestly, some Foundry missions are far, far closer to "canon" than what Cryptic has been spewing in the past few years. THing is, the Foundry mission tab is still clumsy and doesn't give players easy access to anything besides featured missions.
cryptic pwe like to stay in the safe zone and that be lockbox's lobi stuff and rep grind because they know the same ppl that buy in to all that will again and why this game never going to be anything more then as is lockbox lobi rep grinds repeat
to be frank want that the case the last time he became the boss?
The guy's been the sto boss for 3 months: given the position on jan 14th. He's put out 8.5, an anniversary event, a new mirror event, and has season 9 coming out next month: and that has a new stf and a new fe in it. I'd say he's done quite a bit in his 3 months.
The guy's been the sto boss for 3 months: given the position on jan 14th. He's put out 8.5, an anniversary event, a new mirror event, and has season 9 coming out next month: and that has a new stf and a new fe in it. I'd say he's done quite a bit in his 3 months.
you most be new here he has had the same job before and all of what you list been do in 3 months you most really be new here
you most be new here he has had the same job before and all of what you list been do in 3 months you most really be new here
I've been here since before launch, was in closed beta, and I know he was in charge before. The 2800 fe came out when he was in charge last time. We just had that conversation yesterday in another thread about when dan left. Did you forget? What he did 2 years ago has nothing to do with what he's done in the 3 months he's been on the job now.
I've been here since before launch, was in closed beta, and I know he was in charge before. The 2800 fe came out when he was in charge last time. We just had that conversation yesterday in another thread about when dan left. Did you forget? What he did 2 years ago has nothing to do with what he's done in the 3 months he's been on the job now.
if you really think he got all the stuff you listed done in 3 months you most be new try like after season 8 went out
I can't even read the last few posts... But in any case, "massive" is slightly too strong a word (Sorry). It's just that from what I first heard he sounded like an upgrade in management... Then I suddenly hear that he wants to not release any FE series, essentially because they don't directly make money.
I can't even read the last few posts... But in any case, "massive" is slightly too strong a word (Sorry). It's just that from what I first heard he sounded like an upgrade in management... Then I suddenly hear that he wants to not release any FE series, essentially because they don't directly make money.
ya his same mo for the KDF dont make money dont spend money on it
To be fair, I am really enjoying my Dyson Science Destroyers, especially having all that grind over with.
dont let them grind gears get to dusty got to keep them oiled for season 9 new rep grind as some one else said be the old rep grind as the new boss thought season 8 rep was to easy
Now if they would just make all those gambling box items attainable in game for those opposed to gambling.
That could entail many missions and much content or they could possibly be gotten the quick way by gambling.
Just give us a choice and new content.
they are make EC buy off the exchange as ppl love to point out you can get every thing in game with out real money thing is sto got to become your full time job
The so called "Metrics" on "story missions lack the interest of the general player" is a bit skewed.
Most people are at endgame, and have several characters that are most likely there as well.Alot of the story missions are broken, and need fixing. The loot drops are insanely stingy.(Boss drops a lockbox, and a shield battery) The mission reward is underpowered vendor trash ,by reputation grind standards.
Replaying the same story missions over again on a third or fourth character starts to feel like a grind in it's own way.The company self-sabotaged the storyline arc, then throw "our metrics show farm ville game model is what the people want"is a cheap, lazy ,cop-out response .
One thing in noticed is that many times when i am online ESD , Dyson and other areas are almost empty. That didnt happen that often before. As i see it with all this new reputation systems instead of new interesting storys with at least worthy rewards cryptic is ruining the game.
Why ?
Well basically the Reputation systems are not that different. For example the Dyson System has a focus on Proton/Antiproton and the Nukara has a focus on Tetryon. So if i equip tetryon weapons on my ship i do Nukara and the rest is useless for me since i cant equip more than one set ans dont need to if i have the one i want and need. Or i do it the easy way and buy fleet shields and weapons and dont do Reputation systems at all.
So from the moment i reach lvl 50 i can think and decide which rep system i wanna play (if any) and then i am done with the game. i can run foundy missions till i go insane or kill my fellow players in PVP but thats not the Spirit of star trek
Why not make Mission rewards go up to Mk XII purple ,like the Jem hadar Pistol and the TOS Phaser? Why not make new promised storylines like the Iconian storyline, continuing the Borg, Undine, Reman, Cardassian Defera storyline with a real background story like we had before, like "the 2800". instead we get one Reputation system after the other and still no usefull rewards, no progress in the story.
And instead of better rewards we just get to pay more because even the slightest improvement costs Lobi and Zen now. And the prices on the Exvhange went through the roof because there is no Level cap increase and we have more and more vice admirals.
So i also propose an increase in Marks and Dilithium as rewards as well as more EC or a way to exchange marks for Dilithium , Dil. for EC, Marks for EC and so on. Maybe not all over the game but on my Char, my account and maybe even my fleet. I need EC, someone needs Marks so lets Exchange. In the realworld we exchange everything for everything so why not on STO
the Events before Sphere of influence and between "SoI" and "A step between stars" gave enough stuff for a long storyline but nothing happened. All we got was a Video sequence and suddenly the alliance had an outpost in the sphere, after the next sequence we are in the Jenolan sphere and the Allianve invented completely new ships and is about to fall apart already.
I dont play Dyson because i do not need the Rewards, I do STF for the M.A.C.O. Set and sometines Romulan missions but since season 7 i have not been playing as much as before because STO got boring.
The so called "Metrics" on "story missions lack the interest of the general player" is a bit skewed.
Most people are at endgame, and have several characters that are most likely there as well.Alot of the story missions are broken, and need fixing. The loot drops are insanely stingy.(Boss drops a lockbox, and a shield battery) The mission reward is underpowered vendor trash ,by reputation grind standards.
Replaying the same story missions over again on a third or fourth character starts to feel like a grind in it's own way.The company self-sabotaged the storyline arc, then throw "our metrics show farm ville game model is what the people want"is a cheap, lazy ,cop-out response .
Just my 2 Ecs.
Essentially thats why a reward should be "generally" available for replays, not item X in Mission Y.
Putting a particular set into an episode (like the last one) makes us replay that ONE mission over and over again. Thats grind.
Putting a reward into mission replays GENERALLY like Marks or Dil.... well technically thats grind to but it doesn't feel that way.
Missions shouldn't be a BETTER way of grinding, it should just be as good as the others IMO.
An alternative suggestion I made some while ago would be to make a "Daily feature", means every day we get a daily to replay a PARTICULAR mission. (I still thing it should be avoider that ppl "exploit" a replay reward system by basically replaying easy missions like Spin the Wheel over and over), and that daily would reward marks/dillithium may be even a low amount of Lobby.
I'll be honest I missed the Featured Series. I looked forward to them each time they were supposed to come out. This new missions I do like them, but I'm not exactly the biggest fan of replaying a mission to grab the complete set of gear either.
A lot that has been said in this thread is correct, the KDF still doesn't feel fully finished, get shafted..so people do play Fed side more. I know I feel lucky if KDF can even field one 20 man team in a week for Fleet Starbase Defense.
We need more missions, not more grinding. I'm am tired of the lengthy grinds for stuff. Where are the stories and why can't there be more of them? The foundry is great, but shouldn't have to rely on it all the time.
I know someone said that Cryptic probably hopes the people that only play once in awhile are the people who come in and buy stuff off the C-Store, but maybe they don't come on because there just isn't anything new? And if there is nothing to look forward to but a grind, maybe they just won't come back. Who knows...but with a property as rich as Star Trek, you think more would be able to happen.
story content was what I signed up for myself, I enjoyed most of the episodes and the great change of gaming style from other mmorpg. I even spent a decent amount of cash, for me, on the game. Then I hit the wall and found... farmville or more appropriately grindville waiting on me at endgame... and every new bit added extends grindville with next to 0 story additions... This is not what I am looking for in STO. Then every time I come up with an idea for a story I could write in the Foundry I hit the foundry and find out that I cant do this or that and that its too gimped and dated to be able to make the story I was going to write. Then, as mentioned in the OP we have scads of unused potential that Cryptic never developed like ship interiors.
In the end, all the current model does is keep me from spending money on the game because I know I won't be playing much. I'll level a character, enjoy the storied episodes again, then stop playing for months until nostalgia hits. My "main" characters (one for each faction) get very little play time because all I can do is grind for some marks which will take me weeks/months of grinding to get the marks to get to the next tier to begin grinding for weeks/months to get to the next tier. The reward for all that grinding? Goodies I have to GRIND EVEN MORE FOR, and if I am lucky 30seconds of plot advancement via a cutscene. Eh.. ooo... wow... Im overwhelmed.... really.... Endgame is boring as it can get here.
STO lacks a lot of replay-ability because, in my opinion, it has no dynamic events and there are no meaningful consequences for your actions. You can do every story mission STO has to offer and the galaxy looks no different for it. They try to force replay by putting coveted items behind grind walls. That's not good replay value, that's forced repetition for an illusion of replay value. What do you have to show for your hours spent in STO? You just have some top-end gear that is constantly be made obsolete by the power creep.
Their mistake is that they incentivize items because they want you to buy items, but that neglects the reason we play games. Games are a diversion, not a grind. If I want to grind, I can get that from any occupation. Games are supposed to be the escape from the grind. In STO, you're not a customer, you're an employee that generates "product" for others. You pay with your time and they profit from it, but you get relatively little by participating in their business model. You're better off just creating your own scenarios in the game. Just ditch the race for the most DPS and play without the be-all, end-all gear. Start a channel that caps gear at Mk X common, which is very cheap and easy to get. Then start some STF's and PvP.
Go here and show your support for a better Foundry!
Unfortunately I disagree. I believe the missions should have voice-overs, and be great quality all the time. I wish they were more frequent, but I want them to remain the same quality. If that means waiting, so be it. They could also forgo the monthly missions, and make the great quality episode arcs every 6 months. This would allow them to retain the same caliber of quality. And as for being repeatable, I repeat story missions all the time, I rarely play STFs, and almost never play Battle Zones. Battle Zones disgust me. Forget them, And give me more ships, and story content. I do however, support using the foundry for content generation. This is a good Idea.
Comments
That might be reasonable but that is simply not how an mmo players brain works. A payoff for the invested time is kind of the base of it all.
Especially if we have multiple characters that need equipment. Its not like PVP and being good in stfs isn't fun too.
Not sure if the KDF is the best example (Though they could do with several new missions - some of which could be made by Foundry authors), but I agree with this fully.
...This too. Personally, I haven't spent any money on this game because I don't see anything worthwhile to do on a new bridge or interior, or with a shiny new ship, or with a fourth character, or with extra bank slots... Once I'm Level 50, it seems, I've seen it all, short of Foundry missions and little bits of content that only come through days of stupid, mindless grind, time that I should really be using developing my own ships in Starmade, my own missions in the Foundry - or, heck, my own game.
Wha... Is CBS really that uncaring about the one game that can use that IP? Personally, whn I take one look at Earth Spacedock and see the ships flying around, I already see a bunch of things that really don't feel "right" for a Star Trek game... Not that there's anything that quite contradicts canon; it just doesn't continue to follow its pattern. I agree fully with this as well.
Yeah... Honestly, some Foundry missions are far, far closer to "canon" than what Cryptic has been spewing in the past few years. THing is, the Foundry mission tab is still clumsy and doesn't give players easy access to anything besides featured missions.
system Lord Baal is dead
There may be IP problems with that however.
Foundry was inplemented as a stop gap solution during the content drought.
Sadly it is now the premium comtent in the game.
I'm thinking extremely bad management and much lazyness are the culprits here.
Apparently. D'Angelo has proven to be a massive disappointment.
to be frank want that the case the last time he became the boss?
system Lord Baal is dead
I seem to recall that he had the same attitude to the KDF that he displays now, that is to say ignore them and hope they go away.
you most be new here he has had the same job before and all of what you list been do in 3 months you most really be new here
system Lord Baal is dead
system Lord Baal is dead
if you really think he got all the stuff you listed done in 3 months you most be new try like after season 8 went out
system Lord Baal is dead
ya his same mo for the KDF dont make money dont spend money on it
system Lord Baal is dead
Now if they would just make all those gambling box items attainable in game for those opposed to gambling.
That could entail many missions and much content or they could possibly be gotten the quick way by gambling.
Just give us a choice and new content.
dont let them grind gears get to dusty got to keep them oiled for season 9 new rep grind
system Lord Baal is dead
they are make EC buy off the exchange as ppl love to point out you can get every thing in game with out real money thing is sto got to become your full time job
system Lord Baal is dead
Most people are at endgame, and have several characters that are most likely there as well.Alot of the story missions are broken, and need fixing. The loot drops are insanely stingy.(Boss drops a lockbox, and a shield battery) The mission reward is underpowered vendor trash ,by reputation grind standards.
Replaying the same story missions over again on a third or fourth character starts to feel like a grind in it's own way.The company self-sabotaged the storyline arc, then throw "our metrics show farm ville game model is what the people want"is a cheap, lazy ,cop-out response .
Just my 2 Ecs.
Why ?
Well basically the Reputation systems are not that different. For example the Dyson System has a focus on Proton/Antiproton and the Nukara has a focus on Tetryon. So if i equip tetryon weapons on my ship i do Nukara and the rest is useless for me since i cant equip more than one set ans dont need to if i have the one i want and need. Or i do it the easy way and buy fleet shields and weapons and dont do Reputation systems at all.
So from the moment i reach lvl 50 i can think and decide which rep system i wanna play (if any) and then i am done with the game. i can run foundy missions till i go insane or kill my fellow players in PVP but thats not the Spirit of star trek
Why not make Mission rewards go up to Mk XII purple ,like the Jem hadar Pistol and the TOS Phaser? Why not make new promised storylines like the Iconian storyline, continuing the Borg, Undine, Reman, Cardassian Defera storyline with a real background story like we had before, like "the 2800". instead we get one Reputation system after the other and still no usefull rewards, no progress in the story.
And instead of better rewards we just get to pay more because even the slightest improvement costs Lobi and Zen now. And the prices on the Exvhange went through the roof because there is no Level cap increase and we have more and more vice admirals.
So i also propose an increase in Marks and Dilithium as rewards as well as more EC or a way to exchange marks for Dilithium , Dil. for EC, Marks for EC and so on. Maybe not all over the game but on my Char, my account and maybe even my fleet. I need EC, someone needs Marks so lets Exchange. In the realworld we exchange everything for everything so why not on STO
the Events before Sphere of influence and between "SoI" and "A step between stars" gave enough stuff for a long storyline but nothing happened. All we got was a Video sequence and suddenly the alliance had an outpost in the sphere, after the next sequence we are in the Jenolan sphere and the Allianve invented completely new ships and is about to fall apart already.
I dont play Dyson because i do not need the Rewards, I do STF for the M.A.C.O. Set and sometines Romulan missions but since season 7 i have not been playing as much as before because STO got boring.
Essentially thats why a reward should be "generally" available for replays, not item X in Mission Y.
Putting a particular set into an episode (like the last one) makes us replay that ONE mission over and over again. Thats grind.
Putting a reward into mission replays GENERALLY like Marks or Dil.... well technically thats grind to but it doesn't feel that way.
Missions shouldn't be a BETTER way of grinding, it should just be as good as the others IMO.
An alternative suggestion I made some while ago would be to make a "Daily feature", means every day we get a daily to replay a PARTICULAR mission. (I still thing it should be avoider that ppl "exploit" a replay reward system by basically replaying easy missions like Spin the Wheel over and over), and that daily would reward marks/dillithium may be even a low amount of Lobby.
A lot that has been said in this thread is correct, the KDF still doesn't feel fully finished, get shafted..so people do play Fed side more. I know I feel lucky if KDF can even field one 20 man team in a week for Fleet Starbase Defense.
We need more missions, not more grinding. I'm am tired of the lengthy grinds for stuff. Where are the stories and why can't there be more of them? The foundry is great, but shouldn't have to rely on it all the time.
I know someone said that Cryptic probably hopes the people that only play once in awhile are the people who come in and buy stuff off the C-Store, but maybe they don't come on because there just isn't anything new? And if there is nothing to look forward to but a grind, maybe they just won't come back. Who knows...but with a property as rich as Star Trek, you think more would be able to happen.
In the end, all the current model does is keep me from spending money on the game because I know I won't be playing much. I'll level a character, enjoy the storied episodes again, then stop playing for months until nostalgia hits. My "main" characters (one for each faction) get very little play time because all I can do is grind for some marks which will take me weeks/months of grinding to get the marks to get to the next tier to begin grinding for weeks/months to get to the next tier. The reward for all that grinding? Goodies I have to GRIND EVEN MORE FOR, and if I am lucky 30seconds of plot advancement via a cutscene. Eh.. ooo... wow... Im overwhelmed.... really.... Endgame is boring as it can get here.
Their mistake is that they incentivize items because they want you to buy items, but that neglects the reason we play games. Games are a diversion, not a grind. If I want to grind, I can get that from any occupation. Games are supposed to be the escape from the grind. In STO, you're not a customer, you're an employee that generates "product" for others. You pay with your time and they profit from it, but you get relatively little by participating in their business model. You're better off just creating your own scenarios in the game. Just ditch the race for the most DPS and play without the be-all, end-all gear. Start a channel that caps gear at Mk X common, which is very cheap and easy to get. Then start some STF's and PvP.
That's just my opinion,
@arkangel11004