Destabilizing Tetryons are utter TRIBBLE and desperately need fix

deathray38

Destabilizing Tetryons are weaker then even Refracting Tetryons... and even weaker then REGULAR Tetryons. Why?
Refracting Tetryons are one-proc weapon. Their natural procs of X instant damage to shields is replaced by drain-over-time damage to shields, in theory similar to plasma weapon. Where is the catch?

Damage is terrible. Destabilized tetryons, when proc, will do basically the same (+ - 10%) damage to shields as regular Tetryons - but over 15 seconds. This "debuff" may stack (which is not big advantage, since regular Tetryons don't even need stacking to do such damage), but is cleared by science team...

So:

Regular Tetryons are very unpopular weapon because procs are - in general weak.
Destabilized Tetryons - at best - may do same damage total as regular tetryon-if not cleared...


Plasma fire is, sometimes, useful because:
1. it damage target no matter its shields are on or off
2. Damage is ignoring shields
3. It is cleared by hazard team with 45s cooldown (no doff can shorten this time)
4. Damage value may be significant factor when you are finishing shielded but nearly dead enemy.

Destabilized Tetryons are utter TRIBBLE because:
1. It damage shield only, and when shield are off, it is useless
2. Damage is very low (even after patch), and - at best - equals regular tetryons
3. It is cleared by science team with 30s cooldown (15s with doffs)
4. It is also useless vs shielded, but nearly dead enemies - against which plasma procs shine.



Proposed solution ideas:

1. Increase procs damage ~4 times to equal them in terms of usefulness to regular tetryons -which is not much, since regular Tetryons are weak.

2. Add second procs - the best are either Polaron procs, or addition of regular Tetryon procs - it may make this TRIBBLE at least functional for some sci ships

3. Add secondary effect (shield power nerf, debuff increasing damage taken by shield, effect removing some types of active buffs from ships etc.) - first effect will be still useless, but second effect may be at least occasionally useful.


At the current state Destabilized Tetryons are completely unplayable at any competitive level, and only reason to equip them is new FX.

deathray38

Some comparison at 205 Flow Capacitors:

Regular Tetryons mk XI [DMG] = 2.5% for -680 damage to all shields

Destabilizing Tetryons mk XI [DMG][CrtH][CrtD] = 2.5% for -45.4 damage to all shields for 15s (681 Damage total)

Plasma mk XI [DMG] = 2.5% for 98.2 shield-ignoring damage for 15s (1473 Damage total)

Protonic Polarons mk XII [Acc]x2 = 25% on critical for 255 damage to hull


Conclusion:
Even on dedicated Flow Capacitors build Tetryons are TRIBBLE. Destabilizing Tetryons do same damage in 15 seconds as regular Tetryons instantly, and are vulnerable to Science team, which makes them weaker, then, already weak, regular tetryons, by far.

paspinall

Erm I have no idea what numbers you are seeing but the numbers I have show the proc to equate to the damage on the regulars no problem, and they even seem to have more crit on them with the same modifiers.

anothervisitor

Refracting tetryons are major TRIBBLE too. First of all the target must be within 3km range, and on top of that you only have a 2.5% for it to activate. This almost never occurs...

deathray38

Erm I have no idea what numbers you are seeing but the numbers I have show the proc to equate to the damage on the regulars no problem, and they even seem to have more crit on them with the same modifiers.

So... If something is doing same damage as already weak weapon, need 15s to do, what this weak weapon do instantly AND may be dispelled by commonly used skill, it is not UP in your eyes?

Basically... Tetryon procs are probably weakest procs in the game - damage is weak, situational (useless 80% time in STF), require specific build and is easy to block by power insulators in PvP.

Destabilizing Tetryons have ALL regular Tetryon disadvantages AND two unique ones - damage is distributed over time (and is not better by any mean) AND damage may be negated by one of the most popular abilities...

IMO it is something very close to definition of utter TRIBBLE.

macwilliam1975

I gave these a quick shake down and I wasn't impressed yet.. I've also tried Phased a good bit (about 6 months), and am not really a fan of them either. I haven't tried refracting tetryons, but I've heard there not worth it... thinking of passing on tetryons all together.. I guess they don't work for me or fit my play style. I have excellent experiences with anything antiproton, disruptor, plasma, or polaron. Especially any hybrid disruptors or polarons.

shadowwraith77

Well I can say they may not be the greatest, but with a solid shield stripper build they do just fine in pve.

I have has every enemy including bosses down to 0 shields for extended periods of time, as for pvp well causing someone to spam their sci team often enough keeps them from constant use of tac team.

Same is applied with romulan plasma as it lowers hull resistance slightly with a plasma burn, forcing some to burn their hazard emitters more often than necessary.

paspinall

deathray38 wrote: »

So... If something is doing same damage as already weak weapon, need 15s to do, what this weak weapon do instantly AND may be dispelled by commonly used skill, it is not UP in your eyes?

Basically... Tetryon procs are probably weakest procs in the game - damage is weak, situational (useless 80% time in STF), require specific build and is easy to block by power insulators in PvP.

Destabilizing Tetryons have ALL regular Tetryon disadvantages AND two unique ones - damage is distributed over time (and is not better by any mean) AND damage may be negated by one of the most popular abilities...

IMO it is something very close to definition of utter TRIBBLE.

you know i was SURE I mentioned it also had extra crit, maybe my eyes deceive me? Nope my cannons with the double crit suffix has a crit 10 higher than any other cannons with double crit i have.

pweistheworst

I would say the new destabilizing tetryon weapons need a "minor" buff because they loose the inherent benefit of standard tetryon weapons and replace it with the bleed over time.

I would say these new destabilizing tetryon weapons need the base shield damage proc of regular tetryon weapons PLUS the new added shield bleed over time proc.

For example, right now my standard tetryon beam array has a 2.5% chance to do -469 damage to enemy shields.

My destabilized tetryon has a 2.5% chance to do -32.8 shield damage per second over 15 seconds (-492 total shield damage ... assuming the enemy doesn't pop hazard emitters or buff their shields in some way)

What I'm suggesting is the destabilizing tetryon weapons have 2 procs: the standard 2.5% immediate shield damage proc PLUS the 2.5% shield damage over time proc.

If the devs are concerned about too much damage to shields, then reduce the amount from the standard tetryon immediate shield damage proc on these new weapons ... but give these new weapons 2 procs, PLEASE.

matrix0

if u want to use tetryon,.,.,. use the ones that reward from mission with 10% proc. My cruiser setup is 2 torps 6beams a2b.. it's a killer for shielded targets.

10%x6 = 60% of proc = shield dwn real fast.

deathray38

if u want to use tetryon,.,.,. use the ones that reward from mission with 10% proc. My cruiser setup is 2 torps 6beams a2b.. it's a killer for shielded targets.

10%x6 = 60% of proc = shield dwn real fast.

6 weapons with 10% chance is actually 47% for triggering once (or more) per firing sequence. 47% for doing ~600 damage per 4s (firing sequence of beams) gives ~75 extra DPS to shields. How can you call it "shield killer"?

Good old Tetryon Glider do ~4-5 times more damage to shields...

cidstorm

How many times have they tried to make Tetryon not suck but fail completely? I understand their tactful approach though, a shield killer sounds like a no brainer weapon proc, especially for torpedo users, another disadvantaged weapon . . . (for pvp at least)

ghyudt

I'll admit that I thought it was gonna be a little better, but its not like its really that much worse than the regular tetryons. What did you guys expect? A replacement? A tetryon weapon that would replace all others? I'm sure that, given time, these new weapons will prove quite yseful.

johndroid

deathray38 wrote: »

Some comparison at 205 Flow Capacitors:

Regular Tetryons mk XI [DMG] = 2.5% for -680 damage to all shields

Destabilizing Tetryons mk XI [DMG][CrtH][CrtD] = 2.5% for -45.4 damage to all shields for 15s (681 Damage total)

Plasma mk XI [DMG] = 2.5% for 98.2 shield-ignoring damage for 15s (1473 Damage total)

Protonic Polarons mk XII [Acc]x2 = 25% on critical for 255 damage to hull


Conclusion:
Even on dedicated Flow Capacitors build Tetryons are TRIBBLE. Destabilizing Tetryons do same damage in 15 seconds as regular Tetryons instantly, and are vulnerable to Science team, which makes them weaker, then, already weak, regular tetryons, by far.

I have run tetryons reg,fleet,phased,rep and these destabilizing tetryons do excellent for me I run flow caps at 130 and my dmg seems great and if science team clears it away I better be just glad that less than 1 third are Sci captains and I shoot tac's and engineers I guess I like em and they don't need to be boosted because if we change weapons and prices at every instance and turn all weeps would need it the same , I like my destabilized tetryons . Thank you cryptic for only making sci team clear proc not 99% of all other abilities

lucho80

Destabilizing Tetryons proc:

Note: Base Drain is the drain with 0 flow caps.

Proc drain = ((Base Drain/2)/100)*Flow Capacitors+Base Drain

pweistheworst

matrix0 wrote: »

if u want to use tetryon,.,.,. use the ones that reward from mission with 10% proc. My cruiser setup is 2 torps 6beams a2b.. it's a killer for shielded targets.

10%x6 = 60% of proc = shield dwn real fast.

Valid argument ... but it also points out just how bad the new destabilizing tetryon weapons are and how they need to have their procs changed so they work better.

deathray38

I'll admit that I thought it was gonna be a little better, but its not like its really that much worse than the regular tetryons. What did you guys expect? A replacement? A tetryon weapon that would replace all others? I'm sure that, given time, these new weapons will prove quite useful.

Tetryons are already weakest and the most situational proc type. What is the reason behind making tetryon weapon subtype EVEN WEAKER then stock ones? Destabilizing Tetryons have all disadvantages of original tetryons plus two unique ones (damage distributed over 15s and vulnerability to ST). These new Tetryons don't even have it's own niche, they are just weaker in every aspect.

matrix0

deathray38 wrote: »

6 weapons with 10% chance is actually 47% for triggering once (or more) per firing sequence. 47% for doing ~600 damage per 4s (firing sequence of beams) gives ~75 extra DPS to shields. How can you call it "shield killer"?

Good old Tetryon Glider do ~4-5 times more damage to shields...

Not sure hw do u came up with the 47%. Tetry glide is great, but you cant compare it to the weapon proc. It's like comparing apple to orange.

If each beam has 10% to proc, 6 beams = 60% to proc. That is probability math. As for the best weapons, it's either ap or the protonic polaron imo since they depend on crit. Depending on 2.5% proc is like crossing finger and pray. We all know that praying is nothing but imagination.

samt296

I think the proc should remain the same albeit buffed by atleast 50% AND a secondary effect which debuff's shield resistances! This would be useful in PVP and finally give everyone else access to an effect similar to elite disruptors which are quite OP if you think about it... And I don't want to hear about the elite phaser proc because the valdore console and the new item set both have functions very similar.

Also this keeps in the theme of a PVP lockbox. And makes sense because they are called "destabilized" weapons... The name alone made me think they would have some kind of debuff.

deathray38

Not sure hw do u came up with the 47%. Tetry glide is great, but you cant compare it to the weapon proc. It's like comparing apple to orange.

If each beam has 10% to proc, 6 beams = 60% to proc. That is probability math. As for the best weapons, it's either ap or the protonic polaron imo since they depend on crit. Depending on 2.5% proc is like crossing finger and pray. We all know that praying is nothing but imagination.

Each beam has 10% chance for proc, therefore beam has 90% of NOT triggering proc. Firing 6 beams and NOT triggering procs even once is:
90% x 90% x 90% x 90% x 90% x 90% = ~53%.
Therefore chance of triggering procs once or more in 6 beams cycles is 100%- ~53%= ~47%.

Simple mathematics...

no09dysonsphere

matrix0 wrote: »

If each beam has 10% to proc, 6 beams = 60% to proc. That is probability math.

Oh dear... Probabilities are not additive, that's like saying if you had 11 beams you'd have a 110% chance to proc, which makes no sense. The correct formula is (1-(1-.10)^6)*100 which is 46.86 or 47%

pyrogxmk3

Has the fixing patch for them gone through yet? Don't think it has [maybe on tribble?]
They ARE in fact supposed to be offering 3-4x what they did last I checked'em out.

paspinall

pyrogxmk3 wrote: »

Has the fixing patch for them gone through yet? Don't think it has [maybe on tribble?]
They ARE in fact supposed to be offering 3-4x what they did last I checked'em out.

Well between the original launch and after that first patch when the server went down the third time their DoT doubled, so i would say it went through.

killdozer9211

I don't see why they didn't give these a bleedthrough-increasing or an otherwise shield debuffing proc. I get that stackable, cleanse forcing, constant damage keeping someone in red alert and from regen might appeal to somebody, but...

It's just that "plasma fire" makes sense. "Tetryon fire?" Not so much...

It just seems like there were so many better procs they could've added to tetryons. At the very least they could've made these purple MK XII versions of the piercing tetryons, those were cool weapons and I wish i could use them more often.

foundrelic

That actually makes me sad.

I've been looking for "white energy" weapons for a while. I just like the look and was hoping they'd at least be "okay".

pweistheworst

killdozer9211 wrote: »

I don't see why they didn't give these a bleedthrough-increasing or an otherwise shield debuffing proc. I get that stackable, cleanse forcing, constant damage keeping someone in red alert and from regen might appeal to somebody, but...

It's just that "plasma fire" makes sense. "Tetryon fire?" Not so much...

It just seems like there were so many better procs they could've added to tetryons. At the very least they could've made these purple MK XII versions of the piercing tetryons, those were cool weapons and I wish i could use them more often.

The idea of "tetryon fire" would work 100% if the devs added it IN ADDITION to the standard tetryon proc ... then you'd have a weapon type that does heavy damage to shields AND weakens the enemy's ability to restore shields (because the "tetryon fire" is still eating away at the shields while they are trying to build them back up).

I really hope the devs are reading this thread. If the devs just add the standard tetryon weapon proc in addition to the current "tetryon fire" proc on destabilized tetryon weapons then these new lock box weapons would probably be the best tetryons in the game (rivaled by the polarized tetryon mission reward and augmented by the refracting tetryon from the Nukara rep).

longasc

I totally agree with the OP, the Proc is even a downgrade of Standard Tetryon which isn't too popular to begin with.

matrix0

deathray38 wrote: »

Each beam has 10% chance for proc, therefore beam has 90% of NOT triggering proc. Firing 6 beams and NOT triggering procs even once is:
90% x 90% x 90% x 90% x 90% x 90% = ~53%.
Therefore chance of triggering procs once or more in 6 beams cycles is 100%- ~53%= ~47%.

Simple mathematics...

The proc subroutine isn't pure probability math. Also, if we apply your reasoning to the 50% proc, then .5^6 = never proc?

Proc chance in STO is global.

pyrogxmk3

After a few hours on these things I can say they're not proccing as much as they should. I averaged one proc a minute on three beam banks consistently firing.

Additionally, while patch notes state they got increased, and this may be the case, their current version on holodeck adds up to less than a 10% increase [on my own ship, 601 over 15 seconds versus 576 right here and now from standard tetryon]. Even if it was working properly, as it is, no good.


We'd been told a 3-4x increase, but far as I can tell it got no more than doubled, leaving it far inferior to the already questionable standard tetryons.

pweistheworst

pyrogxmk3 wrote: »

After a few hours on these things I can say they're not proccing as much as they should. I averaged one proc a minute on three beam banks consistently firing.

Additionally, while patch notes state they got increased, and this may be the case, their current version on holodeck adds up to less than a 10% increase [on my own ship, 601 over 15 seconds versus 576 right here and now from standard tetryon]. Even if it was working properly, as it is, no good.


We'd been told a 3-4x increase, but far as I can tell it got no more than doubled, leaving it far inferior to the already questionable standard tetryons.

After spending quite a bit of time testing several builds with these weapons I concur the procs stink and the only time they do decent damage is in a build where you stack extra procs on them (as in the "tetryon glider" buff from the Omega set, a fleet science console to add plasma burn proc, etc.).

I really hope a dev responds soon with some good news ... as in, "We're changing the specs on the destabilizing tetryon weapons so they are better."

kyuzos7

why they chose to do another Tetryon type is beyond me they have plenty already...

Phased Tetryon
Piercing Tetryon
Polarized Tetryon
Refracting Tetryon

think im missing 1 or 2 wiki list doesn't show everything.

now

Destabilizing Tetryon


no new Phaser types?