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Forums > Home› Ten Forward

Barclay: Human?

drazursouthclawdrazursouthclaw Member Posts: 223 Arc User
edited February 2014 in Ten Forward
I know I keep asking stupid geeky questions, but I have searched for answers and cannot find them. I would apologize for being this way, but it would be insincere.

Anyway: If Barclay is human, then why did he devolve into a spider in TNG: Genesis?

(I can't believe I've never wondered that before, but there you go.)

The talk page for his entry on the Memory Alpha wiki/site says that one of his ancestors may have mated with a spider, which makes me wonder exactly what they're teaching in schools nowadays. For starters, how is it physically possible, let alone biologically?

(I cannot stress enough that the previous question was rhetorical. Please don't answer that question - I would like to sleep tonight.)

Is it possible that he is not even human? I mean, perhaps he is from another Mirror universe where the planet is ruled by...uh... Arachno Sapiens, I guess...but he was transported to the main Star Trek universe by some means and for some reason.

This whole thing gets more confusing the more I think of it. :confused:

Can you imagine the Cpt Proton holonovel? 'BARCLAY - Son Of Bride of Chaotica'. Wait, are they actually spider people?

My head hurts. :(
Post edited by drazursouthclaw on

Comments

  • azniadeetazniadeet Member Posts: 1,871 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    He picked up some spider DNA that time he found a snuffleupagus in the transporter beam.
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    The word "devolved" is a misnomer. I think the proper term in that context is "regressed".

    I wouldn't put it past Star Trek to have humanoid 'spiders', or even genetic manipulation to allow a human to mate with, say, a Tholian. But it still doesn't make sense with a person who looks 100% genetically human...
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    when we're talking ancestor here... we don't mean a contemporary of the Neanderthaler - more like the first animals to walk on land.


    Oh, well, who am I kidding - it was mostly nonsense. Fun episode, but might rank with the Voyager Episode where Alligator-type animals are apparently the evolutionary future of humans living aboard a shuttle... *shudder*
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,502 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Barclay turned into a spider because what the writer of that episode knew about genetics could be comfortably inscribed on the head of a pin, with room left over for a dissertation about dancing angels.
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  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Member Posts: 1,606 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Allegedly "introns" contain dormant DNA from millions of different species and thus arachnid genes were triggered in Barclay's introns rather than primate genes. Thus like how Spot "devolved" into a lizard rather than a prehistoric cat. So, Barclay is human, it's just that the disease affected him oddly.

    In a real life explanation, it's because the writer is an idiot. Brannon Braga, remember? Not so coincidentally the same guy who wrote "Threshold."
  • steamwrightsteamwright Member Posts: 2,820
    edited January 2014
    jonsills wrote: »
    Barclay turned into a spider because what the writer of that episode knew about genetics could be comfortably inscribed on the head of a pin, with room left over for a dissertation about dancing angels.

    Each series has one or two episodes I find to be complete rubbish and just ignore. This was one of those episodes. La, la, la..it never happened. :rolleyes:
  • tlamstriketlamstrike Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    Oh, well, who am I kidding - it was mostly nonsense. Fun episode, but might rank with the Voyager Episode where Alligator-type animals are apparently the evolutionary future of humans living aboard a shuttle... *shudder*

    Not surprisingly those episodes were written by the same guy.
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  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Member Posts: 1,606 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    tlamstrike wrote: »
    Not surprisingly those episodes were written by the same guy.

    I just said that.
  • tlamstriketlamstrike Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    kojirohellfire wrote: »
    I just said that.

    Ooops I must have missed that.

    Maybe time is looping or something... which consequently was also written by him...
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  • maxvitormaxvitor Member Posts: 2,213 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Ya well that was more Star Trek weirdness. Humans and spiders are both members of the phylum Bilateria but they are both at the end of very different branches of evolution. There is no way for Barkley to have devolved into a spider creature unless he had devolved all to precambrian worm like creature, then re-evolved back up along all of the wrong branches of evolution, all while still wearing his uniform.
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  • alexmakepeacealexmakepeace Member Posts: 10,633 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    maxvitor wrote: »
    There is no way for Barkley to have devolved into a spider creature unless he had devolved all to precambrian worm like creature, then re-evolved back up along all of the wrong branches of evolution, all while still wearing his uniform.
    Well this IS Barclay...
    kojirohellfire wrote: »
    Allegedly "introns" contain dormant DNA from millions of different species and thus arachnid genes were triggered in Barclay's introns rather than primate genes. Thus like how Spot "devolved" into a lizard rather than a prehistoric cat. So, Barclay is human, it's just that the disease affected him oddly.
    No, those introns, to the best of my knowledge, come only from viruses, fungi, and other simple organisms. I doubt that we would absorb enough spider genes in a coherent enough fashion in order to be able to, um... turn into one.

    Some of the introns aren't actually "from" anything. They're self-copying, self-inserting "parasites."

    Spot devolving into a lizard makes... marginally more sense, since mammals branched off from reptilian ancestors.

    And finally, a comprehensive answer to the OP: Hollywood Evolution.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Truthfully.... I suspect that episode was never meant to makes sense.... Spot didn't just devolve to a lizard, she turned into an Iguana.

    Oh and no one really knows exactly what all introns are. Some of them seem to be duplicate copies of genes that are used for stuff.
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  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Member Posts: 1,606 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    alexmakepeace wrote: »
    No, those introns, to the best of my knowledge, come only from viruses, fungi, and other simple organisms. I doubt that we would absorb enough spider genes in a coherent enough fashion in order to be able to, um... turn into one.

    Some of the introns aren't actually "from" anything. They're self-copying, self-inserting "parasites."

    Spot devolving into a lizard makes... marginally more sense, since mammals branched off from reptilian ancestors.

    You'd be correct, which is why I put introns in quotes and said "allegedly." Oh, and called Braga an idiot.
  • drazursouthclawdrazursouthclaw Member Posts: 223 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    So...'Space Magic'?

    :(

    Anyway, thanks for your replies, 'specially the TvTropes link.

    (I spent hours there, because that 's how TvTropes works.)

    I might try to write a Foundry mission about my confusion. Is it okay with you folks if I use some of the quotes/ideas in this thread?
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Member Posts: 1,606 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    drazursouthclaw wrote: »
    So...'Space Magic'?

    :(

    Anyway, thanks for your replies, 'specially the TvTropes link.

    (I spent hours there, because that 's how TvTropes works.)

    I might try to write a Foundry mission about my confusion. Is it okay with you folks if I use some of the quotes/ideas in this thread?

    Feel free. Don't forget the "Braga is an idiot and also wrote 'Threshold' " part.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    kojirohellfire wrote: »

    In a real life explanation, it's because the writer is an idiot. Brannon Braga, remember? Not so coincidentally the same guy who wrote "Threshold."

    Oh, I didn't know that.

    So whenever the Startrek author team is desperate, drunk and on drugs, and have no other ideas, t hey let Braga come up with one of his fun evolution/genetics plots? (They seem fun and make perfect sense when you are desperate, drunk and on drugs).
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  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Member Posts: 1,606 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    Oh, I didn't know that.

    So whenever the Startrek author team is desperate, drunk and on drugs, and have no other ideas, t hey let Braga come up with one of his fun evolution/genetics plots? (They seem fun and make perfect sense when you are desperate, drunk and on drugs).

    I sincerely hope that's the explanation; however, the number of episodes he was able to write while churning out stinkers like those two concerns me. A perusal of his bibliography of Star Trek episodes shows that he's overly fond of time travel and LEGO genetics.
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Star Trek authors have one job and one job only -- fill in the gaps, plot holes, and string things together for the movies/TV shows/other books to make everything make sense.

    Anyone who has read the Star Trek books could easily recognize an author's job in that book is to play damage control and make things logical.

    That said, the reason Barclay turned into a spider? Iconians.
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  • rickdankorickdanko Member Posts: 470 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    At least we know why spiders never bothered him.
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  • captclazoruscaptclazorus Member Posts: 377 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Is it possible that he is not even human? I mean, perhaps he is from another Mirror universe where the planet is ruled by...uh... Arachno Sapiens, I guess...but he was transported to the main Star Trek universe by some means and for some reason.
    Just one question... are we just pulling things out of deep space now?
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  • t0xsick2t0xsick2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    rickdanko wrote: »
    At least we know why spiders never bothered him.

    Spiders did bother him, if you watch the end of "Realm of Fear" TNG.
  • captainpirkocaptainpirko Member Posts: 270 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    captclazorus wrote: »
    Just one question... are we just pulling things out of deep space now?

    dont worry, cause if things get REALLY bad, we'll just... bounce a graviton particle beam off the main deflector dish.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bBD5yyT-s0
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,502 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    captainpirko wrote: »
    dont worry, cause if things get REALLY bad, we'll just... bounce a graviton particle beam off the main deflector dish.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bBD5yyT-s0
    Well, that's the way we do things here...
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