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Buffing Weapon Energy damage, Is Romulan/Fleet Plasma the best?
redsnake721
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
There are I think 3 Energy types that can be Buffed beyond what Tac consoles can do.
1. Polaron buff from Jem'hadar set +13.1% Polaron Damage
2. Antiproton from the Obelisk set +10% Antiproton Damage
3. Plasma Energy from Embassy Sci consoles * and Plasma Torp from Romulan and Reman space sets.
*I am not sure if the 9.6% boost to Plasma damage is per consoles and stackable or what the deminishing return is, or if you can get a total of 38.4% boost from 4 consoles. It looks like ships with 4 Tac consoles and 4 Sci consoles or 5 Tac 3 Sci could boost plasma damage higher than any other energy type.
So here are a list of the ships that would fit the bill.
These are the 5 ships with 4 Tac and 4 Sci consoles:
Temp destroyer, Andorian Khyzon Escort , Vesta Multi-Mission Reconnaissance Explorer, Luna Class Fleet Reconnaissance Vessel, Elachi S'golth Escort.
There are two ships with 5 Tac 3 Sci: Breen Plesh Brek Heavy Raider, Fleet MVAE.
So please correct me if I am wrong but it looks like Romulan Plasma weapons or Fleet Plasma weapons on one these 5 ships with 4 XII Spire Plasma Tac consoles at +31.9% each and 4 Embassy Sci consoles at +9.6% each is the highest buffed energy damage you can get?
I would love for Virus to do the math on this so we all can see what energy type can be buffed the highest and what ships can pull it off. My own rough estimates show that the two 5/3 console ships could buff the highest.
1. Polaron buff from Jem'hadar set +13.1% Polaron Damage
2. Antiproton from the Obelisk set +10% Antiproton Damage
3. Plasma Energy from Embassy Sci consoles * and Plasma Torp from Romulan and Reman space sets.
*I am not sure if the 9.6% boost to Plasma damage is per consoles and stackable or what the deminishing return is, or if you can get a total of 38.4% boost from 4 consoles. It looks like ships with 4 Tac consoles and 4 Sci consoles or 5 Tac 3 Sci could boost plasma damage higher than any other energy type.
So here are a list of the ships that would fit the bill.
These are the 5 ships with 4 Tac and 4 Sci consoles:
Temp destroyer, Andorian Khyzon Escort , Vesta Multi-Mission Reconnaissance Explorer, Luna Class Fleet Reconnaissance Vessel, Elachi S'golth Escort.
There are two ships with 5 Tac 3 Sci: Breen Plesh Brek Heavy Raider, Fleet MVAE.
So please correct me if I am wrong but it looks like Romulan Plasma weapons or Fleet Plasma weapons on one these 5 ships with 4 XII Spire Plasma Tac consoles at +31.9% each and 4 Embassy Sci consoles at +9.6% each is the highest buffed energy damage you can get?
I would love for Virus to do the math on this so we all can see what energy type can be buffed the highest and what ships can pull it off. My own rough estimates show that the two 5/3 console ships could buff the highest.
Post edited by redsnake721 on
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I took out everything that was a threat to kang any way we cleared the mission with optional n 1 min left on the clock.
Plasma is ace for pve missions.
So, yes, between that, plasma-infused threat-scaling science consoles ([Pla] Embassy consoles) and the nasty disruptor proc, Romulan Plasma is the deadliest weapon type in the game at present.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
I would still like to see the math on these to see how they stack. Now is there not some Romulan Boffs that boost Plasma damage in space also?. I would love to see just how far it can go.
They stack the same way as tac consoles. There's no special stacking penalty just for them. Boff plasma dmg buff is only ground, unfortunately.
I've been wondering why everyone and their mother is going for AP too. Turns out most people have no clue and just mindlessly follows the fotm, combined with the old idea of plasma being laughably bad, which used to be true for a long time.
As far as math, it's so obvious there's no reason to bother. Additional dps from a few plasma consoles will be far higher than the additional dps from higher crit severity of AP over plasma.
AP crit bonus helps you...
Procs on the Rom plasma weapons helps the team...
That said, a boat that can't slot many (or any) embassy sci consoles would probably be better off with AP or disruptor. However, a big part of the rom plas phenomenon is the rom 2 piece bonus. If you slot the rom hyper torp for it, that's a heck of a lot more plasma fires (LOTS more if you use torp spread with it) which will do a healthy amount of DPS alone.
You could also see the rom plas DOT proc as an opportunity to get the target to waste their hazard emitters, leaving them on CD when they will really need them (i.e. to heal, rather than just cleanse a fire or two).
That was a long time ago, long before embassy. Ever since there are starbases, ppl who still use maco/borg shields in pvp are noobs and tend to go down easily regardless. Fleet shields are too good to not use in pvp.
It's not about proc, or lack of it. It's about the damage. 20% crit severity translanted into dps is laughable compared to 9.5% for each embassy console.
Obelisk warp core is aux, and horribly bad compared to fleet cores. If you use it instead of fleet core, which adds 2/3 of the 10% dmg bonus under normal condisions, up to 12% if you pop batteries during combat, plus loads of better stats, you're gimping yourself to begin with.
AP is not cheap, it's the most inaccessible out of all weapon types. The sources are lockbox or fleet store, that's it. Other weapon types come as drops.
You say that as if other weapons don't get the crit chance from spire consoles. AP's "advantage" is 20% crit severity, with drawback of not having a proc, nothing more.
Plasma's advantage isn't the proc. It's the far higher dps. Its proc is besides the point.
Disruptor's advantage is the proc.
AP can be considered to have +20% CrtD as a proc instead of a 2.5% proc. This means AP has a proc that procs at 100% of your CrtH, since the +20% CrtD procs anytime you score a crit, which, for nearly everyone these days, is an order of magnitude more often than that silly 2.5%. And technically, you can use those Embassy [Pla] consoles to add burning to AP, too, although I have no good numbers as to how useful [Pla] is for non-Pla weapons, given that it can be easily cleared by HE.
But yes, it's true that the current contenders for the damage crown are Plaz vs. AP now, not any of the other types.
They are not without their share of drawbacks, though: Both are type B damage, resisted an extra 15% by the ubiquitous ResB EFS. So you immediately lose 15% of your damage from that in PvP.
Here we go again with the diminishing returns junk again. All tac consoles increase the same base damage so you're not really getting diminishing returns, they all return equally. The only diminishing return things in this game are armor and other protection like power insulators.
Don't embarrass him like that.:P
Even with the boost to AP from it's Crtd proc and Crth Spire consoles it looks like the king of raw damage numbers goes to plasma.
Now math is by no way by strong suit. I just added up all the buffs. There could be many, many more factors involved. I know that Traits, Skill points, Weapon modifiers, Accolade buffs, Acc/defence, etc all play a role in figuring damage output. But I know of no other energy type that can get a almost %200 boost to base damage.
Granted it's only feasable on 2 ships. Other than the Breen Raider the KDF only have 1 ship. The Fleet Kar'Fi Battle Carrier. It has a 4 tac/4 Sci layout. The Romulans have 2 choices. The Fleet Dhelan Warbird Retrofit has 5/3, The Scimitar Dreadnought Warbird has 5/3, They have no 4/4 ships. So with the Cross-faction ships included the Romulans have the most choice when it comes to ships with the 195.9% boost ability. The Feds have 2 and the KDF have just one choice it being the Breen Raider.
So I may just load out my MVAE with some Romulan Plasma weapons 5 Spire Crth consoles. 2 Embassy particle Gens and 1 Graviton Emitter. Load up my go-to Uni consoles and the Romulan Zero point and the Beam or Hyper Torp and see what it can do.
equip a plasma console
now divide the old damage by the new damage
you will notice very very quickly that it is NOT 9.6 percent.
Why is this, you ask?
Because those consoles only buff the base damage of the weapon and ignore all other factors (which things like the plasma synergy bonus are not ignored by, test this equipping the zero point and experimental beam array. again do the division, TADA a real 7.6 percent)
To be completely blunt, the embassy plasma consoles are pretty TRIBBLE and unless you had already planned to have that type of science console there to begin with, youre honestly better served throwing something like the zero point, tachyokinetic converter, nukara particle, or assimilated module there.
Go ahead and test out what ive said, you will find the same conclusions.
The real reason why plasma is good and shares "top dog" status with other synergy types, isnt so much its raw damage bonusing... its the fact its synergy set also contains a beam weapon that does not drain weapons power when it is used, boosting the damage of all other weapons marginally in the process. (excellent for beam boats)
Someone said it earlier in the thread, that each embassy console gives in actuality about 3 percent damage increase. On my test build it was actually closer to 3.3 but thats just being exacting. Not all percents are created equal.
Its the same as the AMP modifier on elite warp cores. It isnt really a 3.3 percent increase per subsystem either, not the final damage output anyway, its more like 1.2 percent per subsystem. Hence why for AP ships the Obelisk core/beam set is more than twice as effective at boosting raw damage than an AMP warp core.
The most powerful damage type in the game, all things considered, is actually AntiProton, for that very reason. Plasma is a very very close second (actually beats AP if you are able to equp 3 or more embassy consoles, a huge investment of console space), with polaron and tetryon right on the heels.
Disruptor and Phaser both have the lowest raw DPS output due to lack of a synergy set, but disruptor does benefit from a tiny debuff akin to 1/4 of an attack pattern beta, and phasers, well... we know what phasers do.
Lets break it down
Antiproton - 10 percent synergy set +20critD (the weapon is 360 degrees and has similar damage to a KCB, the warp core is on par with fleet cores), synergy set CANNOT be used on Warbirds.
Plasma - 7.6 percent synergy set (torp + beam array or beam array + uni console or torp + uni console), + plasma burn + a couple plasma infused consoles (has the highest POTENTIAL dps output, but requires an insane amount of console space, at least 3 science, to match the raw damage of Antiproton or lobi upgraded Polaron)
Polaron - 13.1 percent synergy set (via lobi upgrade, 8.1% without)
Tetryon - 7.6% synergy set, requires equipping a mine launcher (different damage type) or a universal console (using a slot)
Disruptor/Phaser both have elite fleet variants that have special procs, but both do less raw DPS due to lack of any synergy sets at all.
So the final response is...
if youre in a warbird Plasma or Polaron is the best damage type for you (Tetryon is ok too, but isnt as potent)
Any other ship AP is king, with polaron and plasma strong runner ups.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
≡/\≡
Whats the total cost, ill include that then. i thought that was elachi ship specific (never owned an Sgolth)
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Disruptor gains 7.6 damage, 15.2 CritD for an investment of 400 lobi, a weapon slot, and a console slot.
This would put it just above tetryon, and the most expensive.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
For the Arkif Tactical warbird, plasma is the absolute best damage type due to the additional 10 percent plasma bonus granted by the two-piece arkif cstore set bonus (this does however come at the cost of a console slot and the requirement to equip a quad cannon)
But when stacked together with the zeropoint/experimental beam array (or romulan torpedo), the arkif achieves a 17.6% synergy, the highest in the game. I suppose one could add embassy consoles to that, but there is really no point.
Id go something like, 2x Fleet Plasma Accx2Dmgx2, Quad, Experimental beam fore with probably 3x turrets or 2xturrets/kcb aft
2 neuts
valdore console, zero point, arkif console
5x locators or exploiters in plasma
TT1, CRF/CSV1, BO3, APO3
TT1, CRF/CSV1
for PvP, swap APO3 for APB3 for PvE
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
For a different ship, say the Dyson Science Destroyers I'd go with Antiproton or Plasma.
I am curious if the basic disruptor procs debuff stack if more then one procs.
I get the feeling those new ships will have some sort of protonic synergy associated with them. I know people hate the weapons right now, but you never know, they might be the new flavor of the month soon.
Unless there are more than 2 protonic weapons available, they won't be flavor of any month. :rolleyes:
I have seen other people say this, but sadly it is not true. The set bonus is calculated from the base damage, just like every other console bonus.
Doing the test in the way you describe is flawed, as far testing how the bonus stacks, since equipping the ZP console also adds 1.8 weapon power, which increases energy weapon damage.
I normally have the ZP console and the experimental beam array equipped. That gives me the "+7.6%" 2-piece set bonus.
In space, with that set-up, the tooltips for my other RomPlas beam arrays say:
1135.9 Plasma damage (908.7 DPS)
If I de-equip the experimental array, I lose the set bonus (I don't de-equip the console since it affects power levels). Nothing else changes. Then the tooltips for the same weapons read:
1117.5 Plasma damage (894 DPS)
Thus, the "+7.6%" plasma bonus is really increasing my damage by only 1.6% (18.4 damage)
For comparison, the change in damage from de-equipping a "+31.9%" spire plasma energy weapon console is 1117.5-1040.4 = 77.1 damage.
The ratio 77.1/18.4 = 31.9/7.6.
If I de-equip one of the "+9.6%" embassy science consoles, the change in damage is 1040.4-1016.5 = 23.9 damage.
The ratio 23.9/18.4 = 9.6/7.6.
Thus the set bonus is applied in EXACTLY the same way as every other console, and is a percentage of the BASE damage. And therefore the plasma damage bonus from the 2-pc Rom set is actually LESS than the bonus from the embassy sci consoles.
Very easy to confirm, as I've described - you just can't change power levels or you will be introducing additional variables that make the set bonus look better than it really is.
Can anyone post stats for the beam arrays for a damage comparison or just a flat out recommendation?
Thanks in advance
For PvE the maximum damage potential goes to Romulan Plasma. For PvP you're better off using AP or Phasers.
My personal recommendation? Go with Romulan Plasma. Those things can (and do) hit HARD.
I could go andorian phaser beam arrays, that would look freaking cool. Plus people would be confused somewhat lol.
AP seems like such a "oooooohhh" type, yet I just can't seem to get excited for it.
I am so undecided, I am forcing you all to share my frustration!!! lol
Plasma in general is usually not ideal for PvP, because most players are either using 1) Elite Fleet Shields that has the [resB] modifier (IE boosted resistance to disruptor, antiproton, and plasma), or MACO shields, which have a 20% resistance to plasma, in addition to 10% resistance to ALL energy types, which comes out to 30% resistance to plasma.
Long story short, you'll have a hard time doing decent damage to most players shields if you use plasma, so it's probably best to just not.