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An idea to help small fleets - date/ time to be determined in future (post #4)
vixenjalynn
Member Posts: 70 Arc User
Hello, I have a suggestion for helping small fleets.
I am hosting a small fleet roundtable event for all fleets that have less than 50 players. i will be taking suggestions from them as to what they think is broken in the game for those of us that can't get a five man team and what they think can help them.
My idea is to have an alliance with all the fleets that need help. We will break up into groups of seven alliances and this will be then overseen by a council of larger fleets to help us build. The members of the alliance all join an alternate character and then decide amongst themselves the days and times they are committing to helping each fleet. For instance team 1 is on Monday and team 7 is on Sunday. All members will contribute all earnings from the fleet marks earned and dil as well as all ec items rewarded to the fleet that is in action that day. This is to help all fleets. Any caught not doing their share woudl be removed from the activity. This would then give the smaller fleets a group of grinders that will build at least once a week.
For the casual groups that are here and have a job and real world stuff to do more than be on here, they will pair off similar and they will pick the same situation and all will join for the same event, just less times that they can. This will group them as well.
All in the alliance will be invited to roleplay and other special events that will be for small fleets or fleets that have small activity and will get them in groups of five where all will be doing the same thing for the same reason. This will build community as well as let all of us know we are not alone.
If you Admiral a one-man or 50 man fleet, we all have problems with getting tiers done. It seems at the number 50 it gets easier as there is at least a usual team of 10 that will do the grinding by then. As it gets easier, the tiers get harder.
For the members of larger fleets reading this, you are invited as well to discuss what worked to get you over the low tier hump as I know many of you started out small. Help us learn how to recruit and offer us help with alts that could use more fleet marks. They earn fleet marks until x tier and then go back to your larger fleet. Win-Win for all. This will help everyone learn the game and not feel so alone.
We will be doing another one of these to learn about PVP and talk about how to teach members that don't have a pvp boot camp winner or pvp specialist to train them. You need to keep the language G rated and be polite to everyone there. I am not here to have trolls or anyone naysay this event. I am hoping this event is seen by Branflakes or other Moderators as I am requesting Devs to be there so they get the information they have been asking for as well.
If we all do good at this event, it may have more of an impact than you all know. It may actually improve gameplay. This is to help learn the way of the game and how to build. I shouldn't need to farm the game like it is a full time job to gain my tiers and I shouldn't have to donate my life savings from my job to get success either. There has to be an easier way. The devs that created the Fleet Tier projects would be best to answer these questions as they had a prime number in mind as to what works best. If we know that "goal" number we could all realize the game in the full extent they intended and have less gamebreaks.
Thank you, If you want to join the roundtable, send me an ingame mail
I am hosting a small fleet roundtable event for all fleets that have less than 50 players. i will be taking suggestions from them as to what they think is broken in the game for those of us that can't get a five man team and what they think can help them.
My idea is to have an alliance with all the fleets that need help. We will break up into groups of seven alliances and this will be then overseen by a council of larger fleets to help us build. The members of the alliance all join an alternate character and then decide amongst themselves the days and times they are committing to helping each fleet. For instance team 1 is on Monday and team 7 is on Sunday. All members will contribute all earnings from the fleet marks earned and dil as well as all ec items rewarded to the fleet that is in action that day. This is to help all fleets. Any caught not doing their share woudl be removed from the activity. This would then give the smaller fleets a group of grinders that will build at least once a week.
For the casual groups that are here and have a job and real world stuff to do more than be on here, they will pair off similar and they will pick the same situation and all will join for the same event, just less times that they can. This will group them as well.
All in the alliance will be invited to roleplay and other special events that will be for small fleets or fleets that have small activity and will get them in groups of five where all will be doing the same thing for the same reason. This will build community as well as let all of us know we are not alone.
If you Admiral a one-man or 50 man fleet, we all have problems with getting tiers done. It seems at the number 50 it gets easier as there is at least a usual team of 10 that will do the grinding by then. As it gets easier, the tiers get harder.
For the members of larger fleets reading this, you are invited as well to discuss what worked to get you over the low tier hump as I know many of you started out small. Help us learn how to recruit and offer us help with alts that could use more fleet marks. They earn fleet marks until x tier and then go back to your larger fleet. Win-Win for all. This will help everyone learn the game and not feel so alone.
We will be doing another one of these to learn about PVP and talk about how to teach members that don't have a pvp boot camp winner or pvp specialist to train them. You need to keep the language G rated and be polite to everyone there. I am not here to have trolls or anyone naysay this event. I am hoping this event is seen by Branflakes or other Moderators as I am requesting Devs to be there so they get the information they have been asking for as well.
If we all do good at this event, it may have more of an impact than you all know. It may actually improve gameplay. This is to help learn the way of the game and how to build. I shouldn't need to farm the game like it is a full time job to gain my tiers and I shouldn't have to donate my life savings from my job to get success either. There has to be an easier way. The devs that created the Fleet Tier projects would be best to answer these questions as they had a prime number in mind as to what works best. If we know that "goal" number we could all realize the game in the full extent they intended and have less gamebreaks.
Thank you, If you want to join the roundtable, send me an ingame mail
Post edited by vixenjalynn on
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How this is going to be different is that it is going to be ran like an organizational council of small fleet admirals. All will be peers and All will be equal. This event was intended for those of us that feel we deserve to earn our items in our own way, doing it either with our friends or on our own. This is for fleets with less than 80. Since you offered a tier 5 items that do nothing for us as admirals. We lose our fleet if we leave to gain your items. We have to join the fleet to get the provisions and we have to grind or give an amount that you dictate. There is no such thing as a free provision when the item cost 10,000 dil per item. As well as many have been abused or treated just as you said by many a higher tier fleet and for the reasons listed is why this event was to happen.
The other fleets that are welcome to join are the larger fleets with many idle characters or role playing fleets that want to join. This is a "different than the rest format" as all are equals in my eyes and since I am the host, well, I guess we all have to get along and understand that I am here for everyone and all have an equal influence. The only people that may have an issue are those that are working toward hindering the meeting from moving forward. My meetings are run with Round Robin Rules.
We will put it as the format of the introductory rules for Robert's Rules of Order and use the simple approach listed in the link provided. it shows the plan of the meetings and I will be doing the meetings as such. My plan is to get more fleets involved in community events.
If you are an admiral or a higher leveled member within the fleet and wish to represent the fleet, let me know. I am looking to get a number that is good enough to test the idea put on the the table. Once again, thank you for your responses,
Oh no, my sweetbreads!
Let us upgrade the Seleya Ceremonial Lirpa and Kri'stak Blade
A few months ago, Bluegeek and several others posted really good ideas in the Fleet forum that has far greater potential. But it requires the STO team to take action. Else the only thing we can do is form Fleet Mark groups and hope people in Large Fleets would like to temporarily leave their fleets to donate to smaller fleets. (But some fleets have mule fleets to do that).
The problem w/small fleet mentality is expecting to earn higher Tiers for less than large fleets. No offense but you made a choice not to join a larger fleet and nobody owes you anything, not even Cryptic. I also think you mistake services like NoP. You are using your own fleets provisions and your own currencies when you buy from their stores, except for ship but then you need to actually join another fleet. The community, like NoP, has come together to help smaller fleets already.
In the end you are making an alliance w/other small fleets just so you have claim to owning a fleet since the alliance is, by extension, a larger fleet.
Big ideas with the self as hero and savior, no time to work out the details before making the announcement...
lol...
or
I have no idea what to do, but it will be greatness itself!
...
Now to hope that some people with real ideas can share them with me and then I'll have cracked it...
...
Cynical I know, but really...
Why not just leave 'em where they belong: in churches and cathedrals?
I mean really, you saw in the posts that they were complaining about me wanting to obtain something less than what it cost a tier 5. Well, your service does JUST that. You offer it without the grind to unlock it, earn and gain it of your own accord. I am almost certain it gives an unfair advantage to those that are like me who say "all in due time" as I want to earn my ranks and my points.
Same thing with mule fleets. That is an unfair advantage as well, no wonder there are so many unsuccessful fleets if you have that. I am sure glad we got to tier 3 on our own for our own grind. We are looking at starting the upgrade to tier 3 on a 5 man team and a double digit team grind for fleet marks. I know I feel I accomplished the impossible thus far since we have a total roster of less than 40.
Now, as for the situation I was suggesting, it was to give fleet grinders a break for a day or two and not have the fleet go idle. As the pushers and grinders of small fleets all can feel the burn, we can make it together if we all agree. I am not asking to make it less expensive, rather I was suggesting a way to get the job done that was easier. The projects would be done by the admiral to the fleet that is grinding so no one person is in charge, rather each individual fleet admiral or provisional officer.
If you want to take the easy way and go to House of Snoo or whoever, feel free. I am still going to get to my tier 5 and i will still be getting my ship and I will still be fighting with you eventually. I am in NO rush. This gives me time to roleplay when I am stuck on the one week upgrade and I was suggesting this so that when our fleets are all idle waiting on the CD for projects we can fulfill our grind withdrawl by doing it on an alt. I LIKE to do that. As well as it would bring all of us smaller fleets together to know we are not alone and that there is more than just big fleets and big attitudes.
This way is more canon, imo as well as more Roddenberry in approach. I sure didn't see the great captains using a loop hole to gain advantage over other Federation captains. Also, Why CAN'T we all agree that we are ALL in it for the enjoyment of the game?
If you want to use a hitch to get yourself a step farther, it doesn't make you a better player. It just means you found a way to not grasp the full scope of the game. The full grasp of the game is to learn the mechanics that many power creepers don't share. My idea was to bring together EVERY fleet in the community to get ALL fleets the same since the truth in strength is only as strong as your LEAST trained fleet and individual. What are you doing to ensure the Federation stays strong enough? This is after all a representation of what it would be like in the 25th and NOTHING that I have seen is MORE canon breaking than the flames and drains in the community and the inability to accept all of us as a team. The Federation is the team/fleet as well as the alliance already exists there. I am trying to simply have the players mirror the facts of the game. You didn't see Kirk blow up Sulu or Chakotey have to bow to Janeway. This is the same case and my purpose of point.
See "Captain Kirk + Kobayashi Maru."
...or are you just suggesting he wasn't a great captain? :eek:
The whole point of my roundtable was to get eveyone on the same level with the same knowledge and to share that knowledge. I wanted to get the community together just as everyone in the ideals of Star Trek have done in all the series. We aren't Eve Online, it says Star Trek Online when you sign on.
I personally enjoy the fact that I can see a world where the place, way or to whom you are born does not define you like it does in the world of the 21st today. I enjoy detaching from that and seeing something more than who is doing what to whom drama that happens on the streets every day. That is what brought me here, and got me this idea. Everyone has the right to enjoy the game just as much as you individually do, I am only trying to get that to be a reality like Star Trek inspired Science Fiction to become Science Fact in reality. I want to reach the one goal never gotten, a game with a community as a whole that gets along and treats each other with the same respect they expect when shaking someone's hand in public.
thinking that members are going to be eager to put off high end purchases until the end of a year-long fleet grind... it doesnt seem very realistic imo.
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I have a lot of respect for fleets, such as yours, who offer their high tier services to other players.
However, it's a bandaid on a problem, not a solution.
To be honest, i'm not even utterly convinced there's a problem.
I run a small fleet, some of my members avail themselves of services such as yours....however, some don't.
Those that don't, myself included, feel that the value of these items isn't just in having them but earning them.
Now, is that an attitude a minority? Probably, and again I'd like to stress that i don't think less of anyone who does use another fleet to get stuff.
But it's not the point for everyone.
Very high end gear is undoubtedly nice, but less high end gear isn't that much less nice.
In my view, being in a fleet isn't necessarily about the kit. Sometimes its about building something, and enjoying its benefits, together.
i dont believe there is a 'small fleet problem' either. if a small fleet wants to keep their projects in constant cd, they can do that. but there seems to be a divide amongst small fleet owners regarding what will drive members to contribute. is it spendable fleet credit? is it advancement of the fleet? or is it a combination of both? there are fleet leaders out there that forbid members from using channels such as NoP Public Service. they believe that their members will lose their drive and motivation if they arent abiding some vow of gear chastity while levelling the base. they try to keep NoP a secret, do not facilitate temporary fleet jumps for t5 fleet ships, and forbid members from 'wasting provisions' on t5 bases. these small fleet members msg me their invite requests every day.
is op one of these types of fleet leaders? im not sure i can honestly say so with any certainty, but he does seem to be coming from that direction.
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Great job getting your fleet to T3 and trying to come up with ideas to help other small fleets, but as a leader of a small fleet, I am very skeptical whenever I see someone suggest small fleets are suffering because they can't advance as fast as the big fleets.
STO Resources: <Ship Comparison - All Tiers + Small Craft + Hangar Pets> <Damage Resistance>
<R&D + Upgrade Costs> <Duty Officer Finder> <Suliban Doff Reqs> <Fleet Costs> <Rep Costs>
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I am not one of those that put down the service, however, I am one that was the major grinder that had all my provisions I paid all 200,000 to unlock go to a service like yours to leave me without a single one. That is the point of what I am talking about. To give access to a member that is not helping with the projects and come to the fleet just to "claim they earned" the credits and take provisions and hop are the very reason many close their doors.
Now, in respect to all others I don't care if you believe I am a married female in life that has my husband playing the game in the mutual trekkie love we have. I don't care if you choose to exploit and allow others to get the stuff you even said was "good times" while they don't gain the "community" you had doing so. I only care about the need of all to get along and agree that we all need to help one another to get all of our game to the level that we all want to play and can enjoy.
Besides, why is it that whenever a small fleet idea comes, you bash it? You already HAVE what we are looking to do. Are you saying it isn't ok for us to do what you modeled as a success already? Should we NOT follow your instructions and listen to your guidance as you tell us you are here to show us " how to play the game and win"? Look at your allied fleet of 20 something or whatnot of Dentalite or whatever that you have. If you were SO successful, why do you need to bash others that want to do the same and learn as you did? Are you telling me that you aren't following your own advice you post on youtube and talk about how we all need to gain inspiration? I take mine from Q.
Q told all the captains of Trek what made the humans his favorite. You see it as a common vein. If I want to follow ANY idea, it would be what he thought of us as a species. IF we all came from earth, we should all be proud no mater what.
we were happy to unlock the various holdings and tiers simply because it hadnt been done before, so there was a level of excitement to it all. its a different age now. its been done scores of times already, and some of these holdings have been open for over a year now. most members are well aware that seemingly everybody else has the gear already, so i cant imagine there will be the same level of excitement. its no longer a case of unlocking holdings to see what they contain. today its a matter of simply trying to stay on par with everyone else.
im not sure what youre on about with talk of this 'exploit', and im not sure that i care.
i am not a member of dental or shutup wesley, the fleet you refer to. i am (kinda) a member of Nerds of Prey (kdf), and in the most ancillary way you can possibly imagine at that. i am a member there for the sole purpose of inviting people from lower tiered bases to the NoP holdings.
i dont bash every small fleet idea that comes along, not even this one. and i have never said that small fleets shouldnt model themselves after fleets that have a proven method of success. i think they should! but that isnt what the majority of the 'help for small fleets' threads are about. they generally boil down to a 'sliding scale' welfare system, hardly a proven model. i have told small fleets the 'secret' to success more than once, but it isnt something that many like to hear:
if a small fleet is in a state of inertia the problem isnt likely to be the members. the problem isnt the system. the problem is the fleet leadership. and until that leadership is willing to truly take ownership of the fleets responsibilities, dont expect much progress.
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Yeah, i have a very simple approach to fleet leading.
I'll do things to stop a given member ripping the other members off.
Other than that, do what thou wilt.
Basically, I send out communications every now and then to suggest we may want to concentrate on one thing or another. But I don;t monitor contributions.
I figure treat people like grown ups, they'll give what they can when they can.
And if they don't? Well clearly the fleet didnt want it, so move on.
Can't say we're rocketing through the tiers, but we have access to the basics at least. Advanced but not elite fleet weapons, that sort of thing.
It's good enough.
The main thing is to not get all weird about things, I reckon
However every now and then there are ideas that are not recognized but turn out to be awesome once someone actually pulls through. I don't believe this is one of them and given your reaction I'm not sure if you'd be the right person for it but I wish you the best of luck and hope you prove me wrong! This game lives of new ideas and 6 month ago even great services like the NoP channel were vague dreams.
On a side note, I'm really confused why your ingame and real life sex is of any relevance here. I haven't seen anyone in this thread talking about it yet you seem to make it an issue. Seriously we couldn't care any less how your chromosomes are sorted.
To address said side note: Someone referred to the OP as "he."
The correction, like many of the OP's posts, came out more than just a bit rambling and unclear.
As many of us find ourselves in a solo grind, it will break up the monotony and allow for some teaming to do things we may not have been able to do, like the hards on Defara Invasion, for example. This is what I was talking about. How wonderful it would be to have the smaller fleets get together like the larger fleets did and focus for once a week to relieve the long haul grind and bring variety to the mix of what you see every day?
All MMOs I have been a part of have a grind, and a goal. In my eyes the teams with the agreements are all the leaders of their own destiny, I am merely here to network them and utilize my skill of being able to match people together. I am here for the undoubted friendships it would make. I think it would help greatly.
For another suggestion I posted, this fleet "council of peers" would be more like a federation board of Admirals. Since we are all admirals, I figured it would be nice to use the game as intended. Admirals lead fleets of people, we need more people in the fleet, everyone wants the power, so that makes a shortage for the newer fleets. Therefore, why not recruit from those that are willing to do so? Who is it? Each other.
I have raised up to 1000 fleet marks in a half hour to hour with a team of 5 NOT during the double mark event. I know that 1000 fleet marks would greatly help the smaller fleets build. This would also give the single man and up to 20 the chance to not be married to a chair to progress. You all forgot one thing, you were small once too. You recruited helpers, the grind got easier. This is a solution to all our problems. Those that are willing, do understand where I am coming from. I ground 2 starbases in my 2 years on here.
NO not all fleets have been on for a year at Tier 5. On tribble, MAYBE. However, holodecks first fleet that reached Tier 5 was December 2012. I know because Dental announced it... right after the real fleet achieved the goal a week prior at the beginning of the month. You now don't hear about that fleet anymore. Can anyone tell me the name? I know my old fleet was on tier 4 when I left to start the grind to my own fleet. That was in January of 2013 and a Tier 5 fleet was nearly unheard of. A year later, there are many that have become that within the last 6 months.
Thank you for listening. Also, the other suggestion I made was to break up the fleet upgrades into multiple smaller projects that equal the same goal so that smaller fleets can feel they aren't punished for having a small fleet. This would make the game more accessible to unlock content and make many more happy. You high tiers keep your integrity with us low tiers doing the same grind, just more projects on CD to get to the goal. Instead of it taking 6 days to upgrade, it could be a smaller project that is on a 24 hr cooldown, all adding up to the 6 days in total, or whatever. This would give us a chance to fill the fleet marks and dil requirements.
I know I got married to my computer and had to take out a loan to fulfill some of the requirements to get to where we are for the second time. I feel that it isn't that we are struggling, it is that we get discouraged and feel it is a goal too far out of our reach. For those reasons, I suggested BOTH as a solution for all of us to get more players to a standing where they CAN keep up like you argued to me would be important. Its an honest solution. I just wanted to gain numbers to fulfill the necessary 250 member requirement on any idea being listened to. If it is a formal petition, 250 is the magic number to get it listened to legally. *smile* Hence, the aforementioned numbers.
Thank you for listening to my long winded posts and taking the time to hear me out. I appreciate all that listen and wish to participate. I have one philosophy that I follow in leadership. We are all in it together. That is why it will be different, there isn't a one or two or team, its EVERY ONE OF US involved that has a say on success or failure. I hope to hear from you soon. Let me know if you are interested. I was going to take the signatures and place them in front of the devs with this forum as an attention marker when I submit my suggestion to the main office of BOTH Cryptic AND PWE. That way, they both are on the same page as the forum and all know what is going on. Transparency and honesty work best in business, it is what makes the money easier to flow. *smile*
I can see how it appeals.
However, the part of me that has been herding cats, sorry managing people, for way too long is sadly a bit more skeptical.
It's not the the idea isnt't good, it is.
It's that it can go wrong is so many spectacular ways, and almost all of them are illogical.
People get dramatic, lets say, in a myriad of ways. This structure I feel, while not necessarily creating any more such people will be vulnerable to them.
As for the underlying issue, I'd say relax.
Small fleets = slow fleets. It's a reality.
And I can't muster any good reason why it should be different.
And I run a small fleet.
Shinies are nice, and shinier is nicer, true.
But tis not that we dont get there as small fleets, we just have to be a bit more strategic and focussed.
Where a big fleet can just set direction and power through project after project, a small fleet has to weight the contributions required against the reward somewhat.
Perhaps aiming at that embassy comodities broker is more important right now than a tier 2 spire. Maybe i know we cant sfford that much dilithium just now, so I'll slot provisioning projects so we can keep some momentum going.
Just have to be smart about it. Smarter than a large fleet really.
Enjoy the ride a bit more and worry less about the destination.
As for the mismanagement of the fleets, there is only one thing that could be a concern. The productivity of some may not be that of others. This was the only concern I had. Let's say you and I have an agreement, we meet on Tuesday at 4 to grind my fleet... you don't show. Now, your fleet is on Friday and I grind with you for 3 hours. This goes on for 3 weeks. Is that fair? No. COULD it happen? Sure. However, there is a chance to have something good happen. If you are all "Doom and Gloom" on everything you try, you never know if you will succeed. The greatest successes in life happened from due diligence and practice to make it perfect, like riding a bike. So, in reflection to this, I think the good FAR outweighs what COULD happen. I think we should all focus on the common goal and all agree that we are on the same page as far as commitment.
Now, I planned for this already using my knowledge of networking. You place the similar minded with similar motivation together so they don't feel pressured or overworked. This makes a happy place to spend time. The same goes with teaming in groups. That is all I would oversee, other than someone not holding up their end of the bargain. I am planning on bringing the Devs to light on this and showing them the models of it to see if it CAN, in theory, work. This is to enhance the community participation and help keep the grind feeling less like work and more like playing the game.
So often I am sure we all feel the burn as Admirals and can't just "leave and come back" to get the ship shiney or whatever you need to join another fleet for. I am wanting others that have smaller fleets to enjoy the same as what I have on mine. I also want to help them lessen their grind. This is my way of paying it forward in the community. I like to see a low tiered fleet read mid and high tier. This idea would allow an agreement to be made that can benefit the larger fleets as well. They could sign the petition for the smaller upgrade projects to make it faster for them in any future projects that may come. Wouldn't it be nice if you could CD the projects faster and have more actives on roster to fill them as well ? I think we all can benefit from the petition.