Bootcamp is a player-created, but Cryptic-backed initiative to help more people get into PvP.
Players run Bootcamp, not any devs or anything.
If you wish to sign up, you need to do the following:
Look at the main forum page and head down to the PvP section. In there, you can find the PvP Bootcamp sub-forum. Head into that, and at the very top will be a thread that is to sign up for it. Then just make sure and be on for the class.
Do note that Teamspeak is required. But only to listen, you don't have to have a microphone.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Ahh, the fight fire with fire approach. Doesn't work half as often as people think.
Force better attitudes?
I'm sorry, but I've never suggested that.
what I have suggested is thats its Cryptics responsibility to make a working stat tracker and ranking system, preferably tied into a functional match making system.
Not quite what you accused me of, eh?
The reason I want this is because learning anything can be done in a number of ways.
Teaching, as exemplified by these bootcamps, is just one of them. And fair play to those putting the time into making them happening. I prolly shouldnt have been flippant earlier.
However, without that back end system which is Cryptics to make and nobody elses, the other means of mearning are made prohibitively tricky. Trial and error for instance. You need a certain, lets say, length of data to make that work. Roflstomping is too quick.
The backend system opens up possibilities for PvP. Its cryptics responsibility.
Without it, we run the risk of a monoculture in PvP. Where the things that people do are done because they were taught to. Historically, such an approach stifles innovation.
There may well be innovation now, but if we opened up PvP to allow true trial and error across all skill levels, then we'd see that whats happening now is a pale shadow of what should be happening.
Fighting fire with fire is better than nothing. As to forced attitude changes, thats what it seems like many players want to have cryptic do to overcome the Roflstomp six to one avrage of poor attitude pvper.
No amount of fixes will change a persons base personality of poor sportsmanship.
Having said that Im open to what ever rank and stat system is devised to help but put little faith that it will stop the poor sportsmanship of some.
Fighting fire with fire is better than nothing. As to forced attitude changes, thats what it seems like many players want to have cryptic do to overcome the Roflstomp six to one avrage of poor attitude pvper.
No amount of fixes will change a persons base personality of poor sportsmanship.
Having said that Im open to what ever rank and stat system is devised to help but put little faith that it will stop the poor sportsmanship of some.
You're absolutely correct to say that, in effect, if someone wants to be a paininthefundament then they'll be a paininthefundament.
However, a stat tracking, ranking system with a match making mechanic would go a long, LONG way to making it so much more difficult for them.
Can't stop them if they're determined, but you can make it so the effort required may be prohibitive.
And this is all down to Cryptic. As players we have no authority or power to do this.
Opening up PvP is a noble aim and the PvP bootcamp will certainly fit the bill for some.
You're absolutely correct to say that, in effect, if someone wants to be a paininthefundament then they'll be a paininthefundament.
However, a stat tracking, ranking system with a match making mechanic would go a long, LONG way to making it so much more difficult for them.
Can't stop them if they're determined, but you can make it so the effort required may be prohibitive.
And this is all down to Cryptic. As players we have no authority or power to do this.
Opening up PvP is a noble aim and the PvP bootcamp will certainly fit the bill for some.
But its not the panacea.
I never said boot camp was. I merely did not see the logic in bashing it in this thread as to do so will only compound the pvp problem as a whole and keep more people from trying it as a means to better their pvp experience in STO.
Ranking systems can be manipulated and stat systems can be thwarted. Those who take pleasure in roflstomping will always find a means to continue.
The only real fix that Cryptic can do is to fix the many unbalanced and broken issues that effect pvp, like the crew mechanic for example. Once things are more dependable and balanced then the rank and leader systems or Single/team que ideas will be easier to maintain.
I never said boot camp was. I merely did not see the logic in bashing it in this thread as to do so will only compound the pvp problem as a whole and keep more people from trying it as a means to better their pvp experience in STO.
I'll be honest, only reason i posted in this thread was because Branflakes created it and thus could be relied upon to actually read it.
If he cares enough about PvP to support bootcamp in this way (and I think thats a good thing) then maybe, just maybe he can find a dev who'll actually champion things a bit.
Ranking systems can be manipulated and stat systems can be thwarted. Those who take pleasure in roflstomping will always find a means to continue.
The only real fix that Cryptic can do is to fix the many unbalanced and broken issues that effect pvp, like the crew mechanic for example. Once things are more dependable and balanced then the rank and leader systems or Single/team que ideas will be easier to maintain.
You're absolutely correct to suggest that a ranking system can be abused.
Someone can purposely lose a bunch of matches in order to gain a lower ranking and thus go-a-roflstomping.
However, think about that a minute.
They spend an unspecified amount of time to artificially depress a ranking so they can spend a short amount of time in a ranking band that pits them against cannon fodder. Then, as they quickly roflstomp away their ranking goes back again and its rinse and repeat.
It's a chunk of work. and its a chunk of work that has to be repeated and never gets any easier.
You don't think that, all by itself, would actually cut down on the roflstomping at all?
However, I quite agree that there are broken mechanics (the crew number issue and the peculiar ability of large ships to lose 100s of crew members to a torpedo that kills 5 people on an escort is one) that, if fixed, would certainly attract more players and, possibly, even the playing field a bit.
Just dont think it would have as much effect as a decent ranking system.
For the record, I'm not against PvP.
I actually really want a good PvP experience, and i think that the initiative for this has to come more solidly from Cryptic than heretofore.
what i dont understand is how they say the camp is to make players better but most of players that run the camp use hacks they have admitted useing them have been seen useing them but nothing is ever done about it . sadpandas is one of the biggest hack useing fleets in the game but yet they say they r the best at pvp .... hmmm easy to be best when ur hacks do everything for you. ppl r wasteing thier time with this camp till either pwi or cryptic deals with these problems
what i dont understand is how they say the camp is to make players better but most of players that run the camp use hacks they have admitted useing them have been seen useing them but nothing is ever done about it . sadpandas is one of the biggest hack useing fleets in the game but yet they say they r the best at pvp .... hmmm easy to be best when ur hacks do everything for you. ppl r wasteing thier time with this camp till either pwi or cryptic deals with these problems
I do not see the point, actually five of the players run Boot Camp. And none of them, including me have ever used something that was broken. So please stop generalizing.
Maybe there are who are using, but that not means that everyone uses!
If you want fair play make your own tournaments, basically the first No BS tourney was run by the Sad Pandas's Naz. He created the No BS rules, what is still the starting point of any tourney's rules now.
Otherwise, if you feel bad about PvP because of pugs/premades, then make your own premade and beat them up.
Fighting fire with fire is better than nothing. As to forced attitude changes, thats what it seems like many players want to have cryptic do to overcome the Roflstomp six to one avrage of poor attitude pvper.
No amount of fixes will change a persons base personality of poor sportsmanship.
Having said that Im open to what ever rank and stat system is devised to help but put little faith that it will stop the poor sportsmanship of some.
I prefer unleashing a fiery tornado on the odd occassion
Fiery Tornado.... I think you just gave the owner of SyFy another B-movie idea. :-P
I have a better one. SNAILQUAKE.
To be followed by such spinoffs and sequels as Snailquake 2: The Wrath of Salt, the Dry Hard series, and Snailquake presents: Attack of the Fog Snails!!!!!
To be followed by such spinoffs and sequels as Snailquake 2: The Wrath of Salt, the Dry Hard series, and Snailquake presents: Attack of the Fog Snails!!!!!
LOL.
LMAO - seriously it could work given enough lighting and special effects. The snail just needs to be trained to slump over at the right moment, with its eyes stalks slumping all dramatic like.
Comments
Bootcamp is a player-created, but Cryptic-backed initiative to help more people get into PvP.
Players run Bootcamp, not any devs or anything.
If you wish to sign up, you need to do the following:
Look at the main forum page and head down to the PvP section. In there, you can find the PvP Bootcamp sub-forum. Head into that, and at the very top will be a thread that is to sign up for it. Then just make sure and be on for the class.
Do note that Teamspeak is required. But only to listen, you don't have to have a microphone.
Fighting fire with fire is better than nothing. As to forced attitude changes, thats what it seems like many players want to have cryptic do to overcome the Roflstomp six to one avrage of poor attitude pvper.
No amount of fixes will change a persons base personality of poor sportsmanship.
Having said that Im open to what ever rank and stat system is devised to help but put little faith that it will stop the poor sportsmanship of some.
R.I.P
You're absolutely correct to say that, in effect, if someone wants to be a paininthefundament then they'll be a paininthefundament.
However, a stat tracking, ranking system with a match making mechanic would go a long, LONG way to making it so much more difficult for them.
Can't stop them if they're determined, but you can make it so the effort required may be prohibitive.
And this is all down to Cryptic. As players we have no authority or power to do this.
Opening up PvP is a noble aim and the PvP bootcamp will certainly fit the bill for some.
But its not the panacea.
I never said boot camp was. I merely did not see the logic in bashing it in this thread as to do so will only compound the pvp problem as a whole and keep more people from trying it as a means to better their pvp experience in STO.
Ranking systems can be manipulated and stat systems can be thwarted. Those who take pleasure in roflstomping will always find a means to continue.
The only real fix that Cryptic can do is to fix the many unbalanced and broken issues that effect pvp, like the crew mechanic for example. Once things are more dependable and balanced then the rank and leader systems or Single/team que ideas will be easier to maintain.
R.I.P
I'll be honest, only reason i posted in this thread was because Branflakes created it and thus could be relied upon to actually read it.
If he cares enough about PvP to support bootcamp in this way (and I think thats a good thing) then maybe, just maybe he can find a dev who'll actually champion things a bit.
You're absolutely correct to suggest that a ranking system can be abused.
Someone can purposely lose a bunch of matches in order to gain a lower ranking and thus go-a-roflstomping.
However, think about that a minute.
They spend an unspecified amount of time to artificially depress a ranking so they can spend a short amount of time in a ranking band that pits them against cannon fodder. Then, as they quickly roflstomp away their ranking goes back again and its rinse and repeat.
It's a chunk of work. and its a chunk of work that has to be repeated and never gets any easier.
You don't think that, all by itself, would actually cut down on the roflstomping at all?
However, I quite agree that there are broken mechanics (the crew number issue and the peculiar ability of large ships to lose 100s of crew members to a torpedo that kills 5 people on an escort is one) that, if fixed, would certainly attract more players and, possibly, even the playing field a bit.
Just dont think it would have as much effect as a decent ranking system.
For the record, I'm not against PvP.
I actually really want a good PvP experience, and i think that the initiative for this has to come more solidly from Cryptic than heretofore.
I do not see the point, actually five of the players run Boot Camp. And none of them, including me have ever used something that was broken. So please stop generalizing.
Maybe there are who are using, but that not means that everyone uses!
If you want fair play make your own tournaments, basically the first No BS tourney was run by the Sad Pandas's Naz. He created the No BS rules, what is still the starting point of any tourney's rules now.
Otherwise, if you feel bad about PvP because of pugs/premades, then make your own premade and beat them up.
Regards,
I prefer unleashing a fiery tornado on the odd occassion
Please come and join us. We really do not intentionally leave people behind!
This is the registration thread
The TS: bootcamp.hgforces.hu:9988 (no password)
See you on the 8th!
Fiery Tornado.... I think you just gave the owner of SyFy another B-movie idea. :-P
R.I.P
I have a better one. SNAILQUAKE.
To be followed by such spinoffs and sequels as Snailquake 2: The Wrath of Salt, the Dry Hard series, and Snailquake presents: Attack of the Fog Snails!!!!!
LOL.
LMAO - seriously it could work given enough lighting and special effects. The snail just needs to be trained to slump over at the right moment, with its eyes stalks slumping all dramatic like.