Just curious, is there a counter to cloak?

dahminus

Or is it always on the cloaker's terms, when a battle commences?

I'm throwing in the towel as a pve only flyer. I hope to bring something to the the pvp community...and I pray I'm not just fodder

chrisbrown12009

....fresh meat....

majortiraomega

Toss 6 points in Starship Sensors, toss on the Jem'hadar Deflector, and use Emergency Power to Auxiliary III. Most cloakers will be visible within a nice radius using that setup.

rmy1081

yeah points in sensors. CPB and GW also decloak nearby ships. One can get GW's area so large you can decloak a ship from kinda far away.

Another is experience. A good player can chase down a cloaking ship and pop them with no shields.

wolverine595959

CPB, TR/GW, sensor scan, solution mentioned above

bitemepwe

The grid console thingy that casts a net to decloak ships

pokersmith1

Most of the buffing up sounds can be heard within 10km radius. So if you hear somebody buffing up and it's not you, you can be damn sure there is a cloaker around. Raise your guard and prepare for combat.

twam

Sci ships get x3 cloak detection.

Points in sensors, Jem deflector, Nebula (T3 and T5) console, high aux power.

EWP, GW, Tykens, (Tractor) Mines, Yellowstone pets (ugh), PSW, CPB, Sensor Scan, the Snooper Torpedo (see Leech lockbox item for the name).

Tractor Beam, Beam:target aux or VM 'm if they plink for a sec (maybe even Boarding Parties).

I'm sure there's more options.

dahminus

rmy1081 wrote: »

yeah points in sensors. CPB and GW also decloak nearby ships. One can get GW's area so large you can decloak a ship from kinda far away.

Another is experience. A good player can chase down a cloaking ship and pop them with no shields.

The chasing down aspect is something I'm finding not too hard to do. But to engage the fight on my terms. Sounds like an advantage I'd rather not be without.

Thanks to all that replied and chrisbrown

/loads shotgun with chainsaw attachment

rmy1081

bitemepwe wrote: »

The grid console thingy that casts a net to decloak ships

That's just a dirty klingon trap!!!! never use that console, it just lags out your own team lol


there is the t3 nebula console, Tachyon detection field. That one works well too.


Science ships also get a passive to stealth detection.

rmy1081

dahminus wrote: »

The chasing down aspect is something I'm finding not too hard to do. But to engage the fight on my terms. Sounds like an advantage I'd rather not be without.

Thanks to all that replied and chrisbrown

/loads shotgun with chainsaw attachment

Another thing I do is, while not fighting or while APA is on CD, I sit with max shield and max engine power and fly around. It really helps to fight off alphas. After I see them I then switch to max weapon and engine power. That then, hopefully, puts the fight on my terms after they wasted their alpha. That's why I like the Dhelan and MVAE. They can both slot CPB and keep TSS and HE.

lucho80

I didn't really spec thinking of cloaking ships, but since I use the Jem delfector and have some points in sensors,, I can see them pretty well. Using antiproton sweep on cloakers is nice.

bpharma

Like pokersmith says, you can hear them buffing up in 10km, a good pair of headphones if you have them will allow you to be ready most of the time.

Generally if you want to snoop them you want a science ship, also if you can see them it doesn't mean your team can, however it also means their shields are down too, quantum THY will ruin their day.

Oh and rom cloaks are OP but they get a massive stealth debuff if they have singularity charge.

thissler

bpharma wrote: »

Like pokersmith says, you can hear them buffing up in 10km, a good pair of headphones if you have them will allow you to be ready most of the time.

Generally if you want to snoop them you want a science ship, also if you can see them it doesn't mean your team can, however it also means their shields are down too, quantum THY will ruin their day.

Oh and rom cloaks are OP but they get a massive stealth debuff if they have singularity charge.

I thought it was five k?

But in any case, if you're in the middle of combat you may be SOL unless you can distinguish between the submarine pings of the cloaker and your own teams cloakers, and the actual combat going on.

No just kidding. It's super easy. Only thing easier is keeping track of where the Borg Gate is going to spawn in The Cure Found. Elite.

ursusmorologus

Good info in the thread here.

Sci ship gets a boost to detection range, but even a sci ship thats geared and skilled can only detect for so far (I get around 8k with EPtA and a Detection Field console with Sensor Scan, all of which boosts sensors).

If you hear a buff, hit your TT1 button. If they come out of cloak, hit them with something that will prevent them from recloaking easily. GW will reveal anybody around, APB and APD have -stealth penalties, tractor beam will lock them, etc.

rylanadionysis

All the stealth detection in the world wont help vs a tvaro alpha striker with epte/a2d/singularity jump as an escape route

Hes gonna pop his buffs from 15k out, zip in on you, stop on a dime, decloak, unload, and be gone before you can even react (assuming youre still alive TO react).

Sad but true, and ill be honest, its the guys that do this that are slowly killing the queues. Sorry guys, but some of us are getting tired of trying to catch the uncatchable. Play a different ship for once, christ.

The fact that someone can even be completely invisible, unload enough damage to kill a cruiser or sci ship, and be completely gone as if he wasnt there 5 seconds later, is ludicrous. At least BOPs have a weakness or two, the Tvaro has exactly zero.

bpharma

thissler wrote: »

I thought it was five k?

But in any case, if you're in the middle of combat you may be SOL unless you can distinguish between the submarine pings of the cloaker and your own teams cloakers, and the actual combat going on.

No just kidding. It's super easy. Only thing easier is keeping track of where the Borg Gate is going to spawn in The Cure Found. Elite.

LOL. By good headphones I generally mean hi-fi quality, these are what I use and you can distinguish every sound and pick it out amongst the rest.

Made Left 4 Dead really creepy when you hear the screams no-one else can...

Oh also if you're not moving, assume Thissler is on your rear buffing up and preparing for the fireworks show

thissler

rylanadionysis wrote: »

All the stealth detection in the world wont help vs a tvaro alpha striker with epte/a2d/singularity jump as an escape route

Hes gonna pop his buffs from 15k out, zip in on you, stop on a dime, decloak, unload, and be gone before you can even react (assuming youre still alive TO react).

Sad but true, and ill be honest, its the guys that do this that are slowly killing the queues. Sorry guys, but some of us are getting tired of trying to catch the uncatchable. Play a different ship for once, christ.

The fact that someone can even be completely invisible, unload enough damage to kill a cruiser or sci ship, and be completely gone as if he wasnt there 5 seconds later, is ludicrous. At least BOPs have a weakness or two, the Tvaro has exactly zero.

I do sorta feel that way about the T'varo. BoP at least someone has 20 seconds to get something to stick on you. Twenty seconds is a long time in PvP.

I really thought it was five K. We should investigate this.

schnirsel

rylanadionysis wrote: »

All the stealth detection in the world wont help vs a tvaro alpha striker with epte/a2d/singularity jump as an escape route

Hes gonna pop his buffs from 15k out, zip in on you, stop on a dime, decloak, unload, and be gone before you can even react (assuming youre still alive TO react).

Sad but true, and ill be honest, its the guys that do this that are slowly killing the queues. Sorry guys, but some of us are getting tired of trying to catch the uncatchable. Play a different ship for once, christ.

The fact that someone can even be completely invisible, unload enough damage to kill a cruiser or sci ship, and be completely gone as if he wasnt there 5 seconds later, is ludicrous. At least BOPs have a weakness or two, the Tvaro has exactly zero.

Ah yes... it's the T'varo pilots who are slowly killing the queues. Not the guys who run TIF, or doffed scrambles. No it's teh cloakers! It's not the guys who bring recluse healers to a pug match giving one side an unfair advantage. No it's teh cloakers! It's not the guys who drop tons of money to buy the latest p2w TRIBBLE like battle cloaking science ships and head into teh queues with it. No it's teh cloakers! It's not the godmoding bugships. No it's teh cloakers! It's not the teamspeak using pug-, fleet- or premades. No it's teh cloakers. It's not the guys who spawn camp (whether it is arena or c&h). No it's teh cloakers. Yes of course! How could I have been so blind to this?

rmy1081

schnirsel wrote: »

Ah yes... it's the T'varo pilots who are slowly killing the queues. Not the guys who run TIF, or doffed scrambles. No it's teh cloakers! It's not the guys who bring recluse healers to a pug match giving one side an unfair advantage. No it's teh cloakers! It's not the guys who drop tons of money to buy the latest p2w TRIBBLE like battle cloaking science ships and head into teh queues with it. No it's teh cloakers! It's not the godmoding bugships. No it's teh cloakers! It's not the teamspeak using pug-, fleet- or premades. No it's teh cloakers. It's not the guys who spawn camp (whether it is arena or c&h). No it's teh cloakers. Yes of course! How could I have been so blind to this?

I think you read too much into what he said...this thread is about cloaking...so talking about cloaking is what one is supposed to do if they want to respond. In the world of cloaking ships...the T'varo is one of the best. It can do things no other cloaking ship can do, and it's the best enhanced battle cloak ship in the game currently, unless one is using a full sci b'rel.

P2W, TIF, Scrambles, etc. are problems, yes, but it's all for another thread.

bpharma

thissler wrote: »

I do sorta feel that way about the T'varo. BoP at least someone has 20 seconds to get something to stick on you. Twenty seconds is a long time in PvP.

I really thought it was five K. We should investigate this.

I could be wrong but I hear rom boffs reduce the cloak cool down, course you need access to a T2/3 embassy.

ussultimatum

rylanadionysis wrote: »

All the stealth detection in the world wont help vs a tvaro alpha striker with epte/a2d/singularity jump as an escape route

...

Sad but true, and ill be honest, its the guys that do this that are slowly killing the queues. Sorry guys, but some of us are getting tired of trying to catch the uncatchable. Play a different ship for once, christ.

This isn't entirely true, it's just true for most PUG situations.

This is because the snooper build is a support build, it supports the team but it requires a team with enough sense to make use of the support unit.


This dichotomy is why Premade teams so heavily favor "support" ships (force multipliers) and why most PUGs can't usually make full use of them - force multipliers and support ships only work when your team takes advantage of them.

SNBs power, or lack of, highly depends on the team's ability to capitalize.



For the thread:

While most players have posted hard counters like straight snooping, there are also indirect measures like zone control/area denial (EWP, GW, Tykens, Theta, etc.) that can wreak havoc on a vaper in arena scenarios.

Unlike the hard spec snooper build, those abilities are also effective against standard targets so you aren't at a loss if your opponents suddenly show up without a single cloaking ship.

BFAW can also be a strong deterrent, depending on who is using it and how many ships on your team have it, and minespam can also be an issue for vapers (although the upper tier/more effective dispersal patterns have a very high cost opportunity).

ilhansk

dahminus wrote: »

Or is it always on the cloaker's terms, when a battle commences?

I'm throwing in the towel as a pve only flyer. I hope to bring something to the the pvp community...and I pray I'm not just fodder

Of course cloakers can be countered. If you know how, its actually not that of a difficult deal. If you know how, only the most leet cloakers have a chance to survive. A small chance.

If you play as tac or engi, in most cases (but not all) you indeed have to wait for cloaker to attack. Be quick, dodge the attack and punish the cloaker for trying. Repeat 15 times.

The real countercheck for stealth though is stealth perception. Most people look at stealth perception as some sort of fringe skill, study it insufficiently and don't learn to utilize it correctly. Increase your stealth perception.

Works only really well when being a sci unfortunatly. So roll a fed sci and hunt the cloakers. It's fun. Roll a romulan for wider choices.

You can build a sci snooper that only detects, and you can build a sci snooper that detects and kills. (Keep in mind that most ships don't have shields when cloaked.)

To make it even more easy to counter cloakers: work as a duo together with a friend, 1 sci 1 tac.

thissler

ilhansk wrote: »

Of course cloakers can be countered. If you know how, its actually not that of a difficult deal. If you know how, only the most leet cloakers have a chance to survive. A small chance.

If you play as tac or engi, in most cases (but not all) you indeed have to wait for cloaker to attack. Be quick, dodge the attack and punish the cloaker for trying. Repeat 15 times.

The real countercheck for stealth though is stealth perception. Most people look at stealth perception as some sort of fringe skill, study it insufficiently and don't learn to utilize it correctly. Increase your stealth perception.

Works only really well when being a sci unfortunatly. So roll a fed sci and hunt the cloakers. It's fun. Roll a romulan for wider choices.

You can build a sci snooper that only detects, and you can build a sci snooper that detects and kills. (Keep in mind that most ships don't have shields when cloaked.)

To make it even more easy to counter cloakers: work as a duo together with a friend, 1 sci 1 tac.

Beware the Hank! He seeees youuuuuu!

kyeto13

There are several means to catch a cloaker. A science ship with high aux and points in sensors can see shadows of cloaked ships if they get within range. Standard configuration on my Vesta has a stealth sight range of about 3-5kms. Using that, you can catch someone in cloak and then decloak them with either a tractor beam, Charged particle Burst, or even standard fire will drop them out of cloak. Sensor Scan for Science captains also disrupts cloak for the team.

Pets are also bugged where if they have aggro on a ship that then cloaks, they will continue to track the cloaked ship through their sensors, even if they will not engage them. Using this, you can select target of target and sound your way towards a cloaked vessel.

And, of course, a third option is just be prepared. If you are in an area where PvP might or will happen, be on your guard for the sound of decloaking and prepare to defend yourself. hit tac team and invasive maneuvers and go hard a starboard. That will at least get you out of the way enough to mount a counter offensive.

skyranger1414

rylanadionysis wrote: »

At least BOPs have a weakness or two, the Tvaro has exactly zero.

I realize its pretty galling, but its not the player's fault. Your anger stems from the lack of balance, and that lies directly at Cryptic's feet.

Edit: For what its worth, I think the roms being so potentially powerful has put a dent in lockbox sales. Only Cryptic would know for sure, but It sure feels like I see far more scimitars than lockbox ships around.

warmaker001b

bpharma wrote: »

I could be wrong but I hear rom boffs reduce the cloak cool down, course you need access to a T2/3 embassy.

The BOFF trait "Romulan Operative" reduced cloak cooldowns. Some of the Embassy BOFFs have it.

"Subterfuge" raises the decloak damage bonus, with "Superior Subterfuge" raising it to a whopping 30%. This helps for the KDF BOP to jump from the much less standard decloak damage boost.

But "Infiltrator" however is Reman / RRW exclusive. Dissimilar "Infiltrator" traits stack, but not multiples of the same quality. My Reman SCI has up to 23 seconds of bonus decloak damage.
5 seconds default timer
7.5 seconds from "Infiltrator" from my Reman Captain
10 seconds from Reman BOFF with Superior Infiltrator
Of course, good alpha strikers won't need that much time, but it is nice having an ability to greatly boost dmg by that long and at that severity without burning a TAC BUFF.

I tried adding another Reman with Superior Infiltrator to see if 2 Superior Inf will stack, but it didn't and stayed with 23 seconds.

wildweasal

I hear tavaros with decloaking damage bonus and APA dont like sombody with FBP3 and full aux and the boff that makes you fbp gve a dam resistance debuff and the particle damage increase consoles......most time its poof for the tavaro...but you have to be quick when they come for you....and if all else fails as im in a wellls with all the goodies i just hit that rollback time button i think its the manhiem effect its called freezes em in there tracks its the ultimate FU botton

bpharma

That's the thing though, there will be differences in not just the hearing but the audio equipment used to play it back. Some people could hear any sound if it was made, some wouldn't even hear you buffing up at 1km. Might grab pokey and do a test with my hearphones, if it makes a sound, I'll hear it.

playhard88

the problem with cloakers is the impulse burst console, is imposible catch up a t'varo, jump+impulse burst and bye bye

rylanadionysis

playhard88 wrote: »

the problem with cloakers is the impulse burst console, is imposible catch up a t'varo, jump+impulse burst and bye bye

Romulans should be restricted to only putting warbird and rep consoles on said warbird.

A fed ship cant use the valdore console, so why can a rom ship use the cap cell?