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Forums > Home› Feedback› Builds, Powers, and Game Mechanics

What if everthing was set to global cooldowns?

dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited January 2014 in Builds, Powers, and Game Mechanics
Ya ya...haters gonna hate.

But think about it; if you are smart, your doubling up on abilities, aux2batting or doffing to hit the gcd anyway. You sacrifice want vs need. Builds tend to stay pretty cookie cutter.

Bad/misinformed players don't even know about the global cool down and instead believe 1 ability is all you need.

It could be seen as more power creep...i understand that, but as it is...doubling abilities seems kind of...i want to say redundant...

Thoughts?
Chive on and prosper, eh?

My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Post edited by dahminus on
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Comments

  • o0kami87o0kami87 Member Posts: 590 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I'm weary any time someone starts off with "haters gonna hate" but here we go.
    Pleas explain your meaning better, as I read it right now I see any time you use a power or ability everything would go on cooldown. If this is the case I pass, one torpedo has a 6 second cooldown on my build with two forward, two aft, now if the second bay is on that same 6 second cooldown instead or being ready 1/2 a sec later it's useless. Also if you look at reality one thing takes longer to do or recover from than another, it would make since that this would reflect ingame aswell.
    First, Vice Admiral, U.S.S. Wolf Pack-F, NX-101687-FFirst., Vice Admiral, A.R.W. Moon WolfWolf, I.K.S. Frost Bite
  • j0hn41j0hn41 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    All ships would fly around with a single weapon and no bridge officers.

    It would suck.
  • admiraltrappittadmiraltrappitt Member Posts: 444 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I thikn I understand it, but I'm not sure I agree. I don't disagree touhg. For those confused, I read it life
    TT: 15S cooldown
    CRF 15S coolsdown ect..
    Proad admin of the Star Trek Battles channel. Join today!

    I actually like Delta Rising.
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    No no no no....

    You missed the point and that is my fault. Let me clear up the confusion with an example/scenario

    Take cannon:scatter volley. You pop it and it goes to a 30 second cool down.

    You decide to use 2 abilities of cannon scatter volley...the first when popped starts at 30 seconds as it should but the second copy starts at 15 seconds

    Now you decide to use cannon rapid fire with the 2 aforementioned cannon scatter volleys...you pop cannon scatter volley and the duplicate csv. as well as the crf start at 15 seconds.

    This 15 seconds cool down is know as the global cool down...there is no way to reduce this number.

    My suggestion is that when you pop cannon scatter volley. It immediately starts at the 15 second cool down along with the cannon rapid fire.

    Thusly remove the need of 1-2 potential abilities.

    Everything has a global cool down, it may not be 15 seconds but everything does have a global cd

    Hope that clears or up a bit
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Most eng and tac ships are doing that anyways through various doffs. Sci however would get highly entertaining.
  • o0kami87o0kami87 Member Posts: 590 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I see, and that make a bit more sense to me, however one thing I can't seem to understand is why Eng team science team and tact team are tied together with a cooldown, my engineers are not science officers and my science officers are not tactical/security.
    First, Vice Admiral, U.S.S. Wolf Pack-F, NX-101687-FFirst., Vice Admiral, A.R.W. Moon WolfWolf, I.K.S. Frost Bite
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    admiraltrappitt wrote: »
    I thikn I understand it, but I'm not sure I agree. I don't disagree touhg. For those confused, I read it life
    TT: 15S cooldown
    CRF 15S coolsdown ect..

    Thats 15(Seconds...5/S look kinda similar :P)
    reginamala78 wrote: »
    Most eng and tac ships are doing that anyways through various doffs. Sci however would get highly entertaining.

    Welll the idea would eliminate the cool down doffs, Also you would be able to change from attack pattern delta to beta to omega on the fly if you wanted to without hurting your self. Utilizing 2 eptX abilities, swapping from crf to csv based on how many mobs are there...

    That was the idea anyway idea anyway
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    dahminus wrote: »
    No no no no....

    You missed the point and that is my fault. Let me clear up the confusion with an example/scenario

    Take cannon:scatter volley. You pop it and it goes to a 30 second cool down.

    You decide to use 2 abilities of cannon scatter volley...the first when popped starts at 30 seconds as it should but the second copy starts at 15 seconds

    Now you decide to use cannon rapid fire with the 2 aforementioned cannon scatter volleys...you pop cannon scatter volley and the duplicate csv. as well as the crf start at 15 seconds.

    This 15 seconds cool down is know as the global cool down...there is no way to reduce this number.

    My suggestion is that when you pop cannon scatter volley. It immediately starts at the 15 second cool down along with the cannon rapid fire.

    Thusly remove the need of 1-2 potential abilities.


    Wait, wha?! So, you essentially want a gratuitous A2B for everyone?! (Sans the power transfer, but *with* a power-creep). Yeah, somehow I don't think they're gonna go for that. :P
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Wait, wha?! So, you essentially want a gratuitous A2B for everyone?! (Sans the power transfer, but *with* a power-creep). Yeah, somehow I don't think they're gonna go for that. :P

    Your the first to think the haters will hate...kinda odd. I was expecting the typical
    no.../10 chars
    followed by me asking why?
    And them stating reasons
    Then I try to debunk those reasons
    And then I'm engulfed in flames
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I can see how this would benefit almost everyone EXCEPT escort pilots and tactical toons as it would render the current form of tactical initiative kinda useless. It would most certainly benefit science more than anything though and for that I would welcome the concept... I do have a question though, what would you do with all the cooldown doffs yo are making irrelevant?
    ZiOfChe.png?1
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    dahminus wrote: »
    Your the first to think the haters will hate...kinda odd. I was expecting the typical
    no.../10 chars
    followed by me asking why?
    And them stating reasons
    Then I try to debunk those reasons
    And then I'm engulfed in flames

    No flames; no hate. :) Just mild amusement, really (and some bewilderment) that you thought that, with all the power creep going on, Cryptic would seriously consider bringing everything down to global, without even needing a second copy of the skill. I can't read the minds of the devs, of course; but I bet their thoughts on this are along the lines of "Yeah, no."
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • o0kami87o0kami87 Member Posts: 590 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    dahminus wrote: »
    Thats 15(Seconds...5/S look kinda similar :P)



    Welll the idea would eliminate the cool down doffs, Also you would be able to change from attack pattern delta to beta to omega on the fly if you wanted to without hurting your self. Utilizing 2 eptX abilities, swapping from crf to csv based on how many mobs are there...

    That was the idea anyway idea anyway

    Why would they need to be removed, how about restructured. Not bashing your idea just a little tweek, as I said before something's take longer to do and or recover from so why not make the global cooldown reflect that in some way. Example:

    Torpedo abilities, high yeld could put all torpedo abilities on a 15 second cd and wide spread could put them all on 20 (assuming ws takes more time to prep up what hy) the doffs could then be ways to reduce the global a particular ability, say ws from 20 sec to 15 sec. A2B could work in much the same way.
    First, Vice Admiral, U.S.S. Wolf Pack-F, NX-101687-FFirst., Vice Admiral, A.R.W. Moon WolfWolf, I.K.S. Frost Bite
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited January 2014
    dahminus wrote: »
    Ya ya...haters gonna hate.

    But think about it; if you are smart, your doubling up on abilities, aux2batting or doffing to hit the gcd anyway. You sacrifice want vs need. Builds tend to stay pretty cookie cutter.

    Bad/misinformed players don't even know about the global cool down and instead believe 1 ability is all you need.

    It could be seen as more power creep...i understand that, but as it is...doubling abilities seems kind of...i want to say redundant...

    Thoughts?

    So basically, make the doff system almost obsolete? Id rather have the devs fix the broken doffs and adjust the functioning of the technician doff.
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    adamkafei wrote: »
    I can see how this would benefit almost everyone EXCEPT escort pilots and tactical toons as it would render the current form of tactical initiative kinda useless. It would most certainly benefit science more than anything though and for that I would welcome the concept... I do have a question though, what would you do with all the cooldown doffs yo are making irrelevant?
    Make them do other things or force them into what other variants of their profession do.
    Technicians could remove the aux drain affect or I think they do something with aux in the non aux2bat form...
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    No flames; no hate. :) Just mild amusement, really (and some bewilderment) that you thought that, with all the power creep going on, Cryptic would seriously consider bringing everything down to global, without even needing a second copy of the skill. I can't read the minds of the devs, of course; but I bet their thoughts on this are along the lines of "Yeah, no."

    Didn't say you were, but you are on the same page as me in that there should be flaming going on
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • bpharmabpharma Member Posts: 2,022
    edited January 2014
    Or, now bare with me, we get rid of cool down reduction.

    Nothing reduces cool downs anymore.
    It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
    A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
    Has damage got out of control?
    This is the last thing I will post.
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    lucho80 wrote: »
    So basically, make the doff system almost obsolete? Id rather have the devs fix the broken doffs and adjust the functioning of the technician doff.

    There are more then just cool down doffs....
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    bpharma wrote: »
    Or, now bare with me, we get rid of cool down reduction.

    Nothing reduces cool downs anymore.

    Even duplicate abilities? im fine with the doff aspect being removed or nerfed. But that is one hell of a wait time to use an ability. SNB would be even more scarey
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • alexlancosalexlancos Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Well i see 3 problems with it. First: pinting at a full DHC/turret defiant theres a problem with having 3 tt and if it would hit global.. there u go 2 useless ensign slot, but it fits for any dhc/turret build, Avg. escort have 7 tac stations, so what to fit? 2 cannon skills, 3 attack paterns, 1 tt and u still got a useless ensign slot.

    Second: as favoring sci its not my problem but, what about tac innitiative skill? Absolutely useless which would call for a replacement... any buff/debuff would pretty much make tac absolutely OP or would need a balancing which is never good (broken nerfed stuff).

    And finally: many ppl claims that a2b builds are op, whether its true or not i can't tell, but with insta globals, the "OP" a2b ships sudenly gain 3 doff slot and 2 Lt. stations and bytheway every other ship would turn into a2b ship.

    So overall i cant say its a good idea, at least not in the way u suggested.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    dahminus wrote: »
    Didn't say you were, but you are on the same page as me in that there should be flaming going on

    Well, I can tell you one thing: I could make some wicked builds that way! Imagine a Fleet Excelsior that wouldn't need to do the A2B thingy, in order to have full Tact going on, all the time! I'd probably suddenly have an excess of Engineering stations, come to think of it. I was thinking iof replacing the 2x A2B positions with 2x A2D, for instance; but then I realized I'd only be needing 1 of those too. :) Arrgh. Or the T1 Connie, de facto running with dual TT and dual HE. Wee!

    In all seriousness, with all the power-creep already going, fun as some builds could become, I don't think we should be making it even twice as easy for ppl. But I'm not gonna bother you about it in your own thread any further. I think I made my position clear.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    alexlancos wrote: »
    Well i see 3 problems with it. First: pinting at a full DHC/turret defiant theres a problem with having 3 tt and if it would hit global.. there u go 2 useless ensign slot, but it fits for any dhc/turret build, Avg. escort have 7 tac stations, so what to fit? 2 cannon skills, 3 attack paterns, 1 tt and u still got a useless ensign slot.

    Second: as favoring sci its not my problem but, what about tac innitiative skill? Absolutely useless which would call for a replacement... any buff/debuff would pretty much make tac absolutely OP or would need a balancing which is never good (broken nerfed stuff).

    And finally: many ppl claims that a2b builds are op, whether its true or not i can't tell, but with insta globals, the "OP" a2b ships sudenly gain 3 doff slot and 2 Lt. stations and bytheway every other ship would turn into a2b ship.

    So overall i cant say its a good idea, at least not in the way u suggested.

    1. Fair point, but possible using beam/torpedo boff abilities...

    2. Tactical initiative could reduce tact abilities by 5 seconds. Not game breaking and still a serious boost

    3. Exactly, puts everyone on an even playing field for using or not using aux2bat...
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Well, I can tell you one thing: I could make some wicked builds that way! Imagine a Fleet Excelsior that wouldn't need to do the A2B thingy, in order to have full Tact going on, all the time! I'd probably suddenly have an excess of Engineering stations, come to think of it. I was thinking iof replacing the 2x A2B positions with 2x A2D, for instance; but then I realized I'd only be needing 1 of those too. :) Arrgh. Or the T1 Connie, de facto running with dual TT and dual HE. Wee!

    In all seriousness, with all the power-creep already going, fun as some builds could become, I don't think we should be making it even twice as easy for ppl. But I'm not gonna bother you about it in your own thread any further. I think I made my position clear.

    The power creep is so far ahead of content, really...what harm would it do. The before mentioned ignorant players would gain an amazing boon at the very least
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • alexlancosalexlancos Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    dahminus wrote: »
    1. Fair point, but possible using beam/torpedo boff abilities...

    2. Tactical initiative could reduce tact abilities by 5 seconds. Not game breaking and still a serious boost

    3. Exactly, puts everyone on an even playing field for using or not using aux2bat...

    Dont want to argue but, i have to say i'm pve player so torps arent my stuff and i like full dhc/turret escorts and mixing with beam never worked out to me. So if tac initative give 5 sec cooldown...hmm... CRF3 with 100% uptime...+alpha strike... well i think u see the point.
    And on the other hand with the insta globals, the FAW3+APB3+DEM and similarly strong build would do insane dmg and the game would be boooooooring, every1 had high uptime on strong skills and things would go boom too fast, so the game would be like 30 min of blowing up the known galaxy then nothing... sure thing having such an insta global on any of my ships would be fun, but becoming perma OP kills fun too fast to me, sorry but i still have to go against this idea :)
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Well as to stands its 5 sec downtime for crf...tact initiative would stay relevant this way

    For full cannons, i see what your getting at, you are wasting boff slots anyway...no?
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • twamtwam Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    bpharma wrote: »
    Or, now bare with me, we get rid of cool down reduction.

    Nothing reduces cool downs anymore.

    This.

    I could live with duplicate copies, if need be, but why someone thought it'd be a good idea to introduce ways of negating the number one balancing mechanism is beyond me.

    As a compromise to the backlash, introduce some more skills across the board, as far as I'm concerned (viable low level eng comes to mind).
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    bpharma wrote: »
    Or, now bare with me, we get rid of cool down reduction.

    Nothing reduces cool downs anymore.

    And lose my 25+ mil doffs in the process?! Um, no! :) CD reduction is one of the many ways to tweak your builds.

    Honestly, between dahminus wanting to make things twice as easy, and you wanting to make them twice as difficult, this thread is getting just a little too chaotic for me.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited January 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    This is just a bad idea. :) Fun but the game would become boring to everyone with in about an hour.

    So I can load every single skill in the game one every ship because there is no draw back... I never have to worry about dying because... I have heals up darn near perma like.

    I don't think it would go all that well.... having said that... you make a good point as to what is one of the major issues with the game right now.

    There are to many ways to defeat cool downs. All the cool down doffs could be deleted and things would likely be much cleaner. As far as people running 2 copies... well sort of a draw back to that isn't there. :)

    The people that really really don't know better are either doing PvE in which case they get by just fine... those that are infecting pvp need to be taught, they may be nooby now but that is correctable.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • bpharmabpharma Member Posts: 2,022
    edited January 2014
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    And lose my 25+ mil doffs in the process?! Um, no! :) CD reduction is one of the many ways to tweak your builds.

    Honestly, between dahminus wanting to make things twice as easy, and you wanting to make them twice as difficult, this thread is getting just a little too chaotic for me.

    I also want to take away your D'Kora, mobius and all your other lockbox ships :P

    Having said that cooldown reductions and specifically doffs are one of the major issues this game has in balance. You got attack pattern, beam and cannon ones which are stupidly rare and out of reach to most casual players.

    I still stand by what I say about aux to battery and that is it's popularity has shot up so much mostly because of how easy/cheap it is to get the doffs. If I had 3 Zemoks (Rugal for kdf) on every character I wouldn't touch aux to battery with a heavy graviton beam.

    Monetizing performance was a terrible idea to begin with and has led to Pay to Win or in some cases Pay to Fail. I still cry a little whenever I parse a JHAS lower than 5k...

    Also a warm welcome to Antonio, not seen you in this section before =)
    It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
    A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
    Has damage got out of control?
    This is the last thing I will post.
  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    alexlancos wrote: »
    Well i see 3 problems with it. First: pinting at a full DHC/turret defiant theres a problem with having 3 tt and if it would hit global.. there u go 2 useless ensign slot, but it fits for any dhc/turret build, Avg. escort have 7 tac stations, so what to fit? 2 cannon skills, 3 attack paterns, 1 tt and u still got a useless ensign slot.

    Second: as favoring sci its not my problem but, what about tac innitiative skill? Absolutely useless which would call for a replacement... any buff/debuff would pretty much make tac absolutely OP or would need a balancing which is never good (broken nerfed stuff).

    And finally: many ppl claims that a2b builds are op, whether its true or not i can't tell, but with insta globals, the "OP" a2b ships sudenly gain 3 doff slot and 2 Lt. stations and bytheway every other ship would turn into a2b ship.

    So overall i cant say its a good idea, at least not in the way u suggested.

    OH OH I CAN ANSWER THAT!!!!! 1 DBB w/ BO pweor, 2 DHC's with 1 CRF and 1 CSV, and a BA, with FAW. Maybe throw in a torp or mine and corresponding piece :)
    Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
    I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    bpharma wrote: »
    I also want to take away your D'Kora, mobius and all your other lockbox ships :P

    Awwww :)
    Having said that cooldown reductions and specifically doffs are one of the major issues this game has in balance. You got attack pattern, beam and cannon ones which are stupidly rare and out of reach to most casual players.

    Well, I possess those stupidly rare doffs, and I bought them at stupidly rare prices. :P
    If I had 3 Zemoks (Rugal for kdf) on every character I wouldn't touch it with a heavy graviton beam.

    Why not?! They rock! The Zemoks are amongst the best purchases I ever made. And I *do* have 3 of them (turns out I only needed 2, LOL, but when was math ever my thang? LOL) Slap on a Hamlet to boot, and you're good to go!
    Monetizing performance was a terrible idea to begin with...

    A(greed) :P
    and has led to Pay to Win or in some cases Pay to Fail. I still cry a little whenever I parse a JHAS lower than 5k...

    Even *I do over 10k these days. So, lower than 5k for JHAS, that seems odd.

    N.B. Actually, not to ruin it for my own side, but yesterday, during a run of ISE, I noticed on of the 4 Nanite Generators was still up (apparently nobody had noticed it, me included). It didn't matter none: the Transformer went down regardless, easy-peasy. That's when I briefly thought: "Okay, maybe bpharma *does* have a small point."
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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