Help choose My Next Tactical Ship

cruisin1500

Hi everyone, after fooling around on science ship recently with a new sci captain, I've decided for now to return to a tactical ship...


I mainly PVE these days in the borg space Estf's because for some reason I find them fun...

I've learned a lot since I came back and am about to choose a new tactical ship.

Goals:
To be the best I can be while puggins estf's and help lead the team in the event that some of them are struggling.

First Ship: - Dominion Heavy Escort Carrier

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=jemhadarheavyescortconcept_5791

Thinking/Strategy: I don't want two copies of CSV because I find one enough for when you have groups and the CRF better because most of the time you only have one target, and it is a better boost to damage, such as for tac cubes and gates.

The heavy lean to Hull heals is to keep me alive against a gate or tac cube alone. This should be taken care of with Aux2SIF, ET3 and HE to clear debuffs along with Aux2Bat and 3x technicians to lower my cool downs all around.

Alternative Build: - Beams Aux2Bat

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=jemhadarheavyescortconcept2_5791

Do you think the beam can get as good damage ou put as the canon? Or it will depend on how long I can sit still facing the target? Should one bother with a dual aux2bat build on an escort? Is not the point of the dual build to help buff the damage of cruisers who were lacking damage compared to escorts?

Option 1 thoughts: with the Heavy Canons I might have to move if my heals don't keep up because defense stat is lower while being still, thus placing my weapons out of arc.

Option 2 thoughts: This means I can broadside while at full speed and keep the defense rating up to help subsidize how regular I have to use my heals, thus potentially making it so I never have to retreat?

Additional Variation: for the dual aux2bat beam build...replace the Lt Eng with Lt Tac, put APB on the LT tac, take out APB3 on the Commander Tac and replace with APO3.

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=jemhadarheavyescortconcept3_5791

The final decision rests on the ability to tank really. Dropping the Engineer, is two less hull heals, ET1 and Aux2Sif 1. If it can survive without those, with just the cycling of EMPtS + your speed + HE + the point defense console I'd drop the engineer.

But I am skeptical. I am inclined to believe that the canon/sit still build would definitely require more tanking. So the question is, will the sit/still dual heavies keep up with the damage of the beam/dem/FAW. Because ultimately if the heavies are better damage AND I can survive while sitting still to keep them in arc, then I would go that way with extra engineer, dropping the LT tac.

Second Ship -- Jem Hadar Dread Carrier

The standard dual aux2bat build

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=kdfromulandpsjhdreadnought_0


Third Ship -- Bortasqu Tactical Ship

Standard dual aux2bat build, perhaps with aux2damp thrown in for maneuverability if desired.

Any thoughts, plus personal experience with these ships and setups and your results with the variations of speed tanking/sitting still, surviving tac cubes and gates would be very welcome!

thanks,

Cruis

dahminus

Well the Jem hadar ships will be pricey compared to the bort. But they are a lot of fun to fly. I'd suggest the jhec. Just because it will have a different feel compared to the massive bort and carrier

shpoks

Just a question, why don't you consider trying a Mogh Battlecruiser?

cruisin1500

I didn't like the aesthetics.

How is this for a torpedo Bort?

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=borttorpedo_5791

5x 30% consoles + Rule 62 (11% or so increase to projectile) + 2 piece honor guard set = 25% increase to projectile

8 torpedoes firing on torpedo spread 3 at a group, with like 120% + in damage should make for a nice show. I never tried one before, I am sure I am missing something with regard to more damage.

It's got good hull resists/heal with Aux2Sif3, Aux2DampII, HE and Polarize Hull.

stofsk

cruisin1500 wrote: »

I didn't like the aesthetics.

Neither did I at first but you know what, the more I looked at it the more I thought it looked kind of cool.

cruisin1500

it actually isn't so bad...I don't know why but I like the Bortas better. And the Negvar.

lianthelia

cruisin1500 wrote: »

I didn't like the aesthetics.

How is this for a torpedo Bort?

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=borttorpedo_5791

5x 30% consoles + Rule 62 (11% or so increase to projectile) + 2 piece honor guard set = 25% increase to projectile

8 torpedoes firing on torpedo spread 3 at a group, with like 120% + in damage should make for a nice show. I never tried one before, I am sure I am missing something with regard to more damage.

It's got good hull resists/heal with Aux2Sif3, Aux2DampII, HE and Polarize Hull.

Umm first off if I'm reading your post right you have a misunderstanding of how TS works...the spread will only fire from one torpedo tube not all 8. Second going all quantum is a bad idea and if you're fighting something with shields you're gonna do no damage at all.

Normally on a torpedo boat people take a lot of shield bypassing torps like Transphasics for their 40% shield penetration and stuff like Plasma and the Hargh'peng for their hull burning procs.

Lastly what I can think of at the moment, the Bortas is really to slow to make a good Torp boat...most people go with science vessels...which normally have decent middle of the road turning. Plus with few torpedo doffs you don't need so many torps which is another reason why Science vessels work so well as Torp boats.

noblet

Look into the fleet Kar'fi.

It's the definitive tac carrier, and one of the rare few benefits of being klink.:D

High turn rate, 4/3 weapon layout, 4 tac consoles, high tac boffs, weapon power bonus.

The frig pets are arguably better than bug ship pets. Elite bug ship pet has directed energy modulation III for dual polaron cannons, plus proton scan. Elite Fer'jai has rapid fire III for dual antiproton canons, plus heavy torp III for tricobalt torp.

amincielbleu

How to make your own opinion if you look for a small and nimble ship :
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=807251
(there is a dedicated post for science captains after the main text)

How to make your own opinion if you look for a massive and solid ship :
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=808621
(there is a special warning for science captains who look for a carrier).

When you say you "return to a tactical ship", I assume you considered and rejected the Vo'Quv and the Kar'Fi, but then I was surprised to see the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought in your options. Despite some differences in the bridge setup, you will find it similar to the Kar'Fi in terms of feeling and performance. Depending on your experience, you might want to reconsider the Kar'Fi or forget about any "massive and solid ship" to focus on an escort or destroyer.

We all have a different style ; your criteria will determine which ship is recommended for you.

cruisin1500

Sorry for the confusion, my tactical escort carrier was fed, this is for a new one is klingon

So before I used the defiant.

mandoknight89

lianthelia wrote: »

Lastly what I can think of at the moment, the Bortas is really to slow to make a good Torp boat...most people go with science vessels...which normally have decent middle of the road turning. Plus with few torpedo doffs you don't need so many torps which is another reason why Science vessels work so well as Torp boats.

Another big thing with going Science for a torp boat is because when you're a torp boat, you don't need Weapon power at all, so you can put everything into Aux instead, for extremely powerful Sci abilities (such as a massive Gravity Well, to hold everything down for a devastating Torpedo Spread).

coldicephoenix

Another big thing with going Science for a torp boat is because when you're a torp boat, you don't need Weapon power at all, so you can put everything into Aux instead, for extremely powerful Sci abilities (such as a massive Gravity Well, to hold everything down for a devastating Torpedo Spread).

^This. Also if you go Rom-kdf get the destabilized torpedo console... you can get humongous numbers with that.

sander233

I've been driving the Tac Bortasqu' practically since it first came out, and I'm pretty good with it. However, the character that has it an engineer, so not all of my advice may apply.

First off, the BOff layout is not the best for a 2x A2B build. If you put both A2Bs in the Cmdr. Eng. slot, you will either have to sacrifice heals or abilities like EWP1 or DEM or heals or the all important Aux2Damp (which you've already figured is the key to making the Bortasqu' maneuverable enough to be useful.) Or you have to make the LCdr. Uni. slot an Eng. and that sacrifices your Tac abilities.

Torp boating in a Bortasqu is not as fun as it sounds. Although I have seen a guy with a Transphasic Tac Bortasqu' torpboat which is almost hilariously lethal in PvP, but if you're interested mainly in carrying pugs through ESTFs this is not the way to go.

People will tell you that the only way to fly a Bortasqu' is as an A2B/FAW beam boat. They are wrong. With an enhanced RCS accelerator or a couple of [+turn] neutronium consoles (or both) and Aux2Damp2 hot-keyed with evasive maneuvers, this ship will pull powerslide turns that will shock you (and your teammates. I had one guy stop shooting in CSE for two minutes demanding to know how I was able to make my ship pull snap J-turns.) There is no reason why you can't make an effective DHC platform out of a Tac Bortasqu', and take advantage of its special console: the Disruptor Autocannon.

rodentmaster

The autocannon isn't worth it. I really really wanted it to be worth it, but it just isn't. The cooldown is too long. The damage is way too low. It really does very little and the times you can use it are few because you have to be set up in the right position to take best use of it.

A2Damp can help a little, but it's still a wallowing pig. Most of your maneuverability came from Evasive Maneuvers. That has a very long cooldown. For dynamic fights where you're constantly turning to find another target (such as inside the main hangar in Breach Elite) you'll be turning too much and not firing on targets enough. You NEED to use beam arrays. I even tried single cannons, but that 180 degrees just isn't enough to stay on targets that just barely go outside your arc off to your sides. You're a big ship, and it doesn't take much to cross the line from "firing at it" to "can't fire at it"...

Running as beam also means you don't need to use up valuable skills to turn as much. Especially if you run the LtCDR as ENG. A2Damp is fine, don't get me wrong, but what if you want to run RSP and A2SIF or ES? Get some cross-healing go without losing any damage? you can still get tac team1, faw1, and APB1 going, broadside the hell out of anything with 360 degrees of weapons coverage, and meanwhile have enough to tank anything or heal your entire team. All without being last on the damage boards when the mission is done.

However, I'd NEVER suggest the Borty to anybody. It's just not worth it. you want ENG heavy? Run a Negh'var! Hull almost as good, everything else as good if not better. You can run cannons in a Negh way better than in a bort. You want TAC heavy? Go mogh or tork! you want Sci heavy? Chel Gret or Karamag retrofit! Every one of these ships has a better setup and better performance than the Borty, while maintaining similar weapons setups, console setups, boff setups... The only difference is the bort has a bit more hull. Problem is it NEEDS that hull because it can't turn worth a damn and so becomes a sitting duck and dies faster.

cruisin1500

Do high yields come from every launcher? Or only one like torpedo spread?

tksmitty

cruisin1500 wrote: »

Do high yields come from every launcher? Or only one like torpedo spread?

High yields only apply to one of your launchers. Torpedoes are not like energy weapons. Torpedo skills (and mine skills for that matter) only affect one of your torpedoes. Cannon rapid fire or beam fire at will affects all equipped weapons of that type.

You are a science officer, so, have you looked into a sci-heavy escort like an S'golth or a Temporal Destroyer? My sci is in the Chel Grett and loving it.

rodentmaster

My KDF sci started in battlecruisers raptors and raiders, and then went mirror voquv (had a blast) but lately is testing the waters with the many universal boff slots on the Plesh Brek raider.

Just a tip/thought for those that want some sci boff slots to play with.

noroblad

The jem carrier seem to suit your request. Are you a sci wanting a tac boat or a new tac captain?? It was unclear.

I prefer the mogh or tac carrier to your other choices.

If you are a sci captain, I would look hard for a ship with a uni cmdr BO slot so you can go either way (sci or tac). Come to think of it, that works for a tac too

beams vs cannons.... cannons lose dps at a distance & things fly out of (or you move the wrong way) giving 0 dps moments where you are not aligned. My personal rule of thumb is cannons on 12+ turn rate, dual beams on 8-12, and below 8 usually get beam array/broadside. There are exceptions of course, but give or take a degree of turn rate its close to what you should probably consider. There are ways to build in a lot of turn rate boosting abilities allowing cannons on whales, if you want to go there it can be done to reasonable success in PVE. Pvp, people gonna move out of your fire and that is that, but AS (artificial stupidity) will sit in it.

I just got the tholian carrier for my sci captain. It is not a tactical ship, but I absolutely love it. Sci may not do a lot of damage with their beams, but you take 12 fighters, a photonic fleet, 6 beam arrays, GW and the sci skills, your one FAW, and so on... it piles up a lot of dps when you need it, though obviously PF has a cooldown so you have to use that when it is most useful. If you are a sci wanting a carrier, let me strongly recommend this ship as a contender for putting the hurt on things. It may not do as much with its beams, but it delivers punishment elsewhere.