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Is the expermental proton weapon working properly?
momaw
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Just got this space weapon. It's supposed to have a 25% chance on critical hits to add a shield-ignoring bonus damage.
Over the course of a mission I scored 427 hits with the weapon, with a 20% critical hit rate, and got ONE instance of "proton particle burn" logged during the entire mission.
The fact that it logged correctly at least once makes me think it's not in the same inscrutable situation as Tachyon Beam and such abilities, but obviously it should have triggered a lot more times (about 20) so I just don't know.
Thoughts?
Over the course of a mission I scored 427 hits with the weapon, with a 20% critical hit rate, and got ONE instance of "proton particle burn" logged during the entire mission.
The fact that it logged correctly at least once makes me think it's not in the same inscrutable situation as Tachyon Beam and such abilities, but obviously it should have triggered a lot more times (about 20) so I just don't know.
Thoughts?
Post edited by momaw on
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All 708,816 663.87 359.62 384 0 1,122 All 1,971 2,065 95.45 10%
Experimental Proton Weapon 704,765 660.08 360.68 389 0 1,122 Shield 1,954 2,048 95.41 10%
Proton Particle Burn 4,051 3.79 238.29 253 0 270 Proton 17 17 100.00 0%
So ~10% of 1954 hits were a crit...so ~195 crits. 17 burns.
A thing to keep in mind is that it is a chance per crit, not that a certain percentage of crits will. Technically, all 195 crits could have been burns...none of the 195 crits could have been burns. It's a 25% chance per crit to be a burn, not that 25% of crits over a period will be burns.
So maybe it's a case of looking to see if there's something else going on, eh?
These are the timestamps for the burns.
07:49:38.7
07:49:49.9 +11.2s
07:50:20.3 +30.4s
07:51:19.9 +59.6s
07:52:00.8 +40.9s
07:54:26.7 +145.9s
07:55:32.3 +65.6s
07:55:39.0 +6.7s
07:55:49.8 +10.8s
07:55:58.3 +8.5s
07:57:28.3 +110.0s
07:59:57.8 +149.5s
08:00:20.7 +22.9s
08:01:34.1 +73.4s
08:03:11.6 +117.5s
08:04:18.5 +66.9s
08:04:34.6 +16.1s
And all that tells us is if there is a proc limiter, it's somewhere under 6.7s. Perhaps a 5s proc limiter? We'd have to run the tests so many times to tell...would be much easier just to ask the devs if there is or isn't, eh?
Another mission, another data point:
575 hits, 18.4% critical hit ratio = 106 crits
Proton burn logged 8 times (7.5% of crits)
Your data also seems very much lower than one would expect. Less than 10% of crits triggered burn.
Might be time to spend an hour poking a PVP crash test dummy to get a more statistically valid sample size.
Moved the experimental proton weapon to a back mounting because I just wanted it for the set bonus to test something out. It registered a whopping 39 regular hits (rear mounted 180 degree arc on a beam boat), none of which triggered proton burn.
But here's where it also gets pear shaped: It registered 80 hits on Fire At Will, and triggered proton burn 5 times. As anybody who's used it is aware, Fire At Will cannot crit. So where's that "25% chance on critical hits" coming from?
but what ship are you using this weapon on?
i ask because im trying to figure out would it be a good idea to replace a DHC for this? (i fly the Breen Warship)
or should i not bother and just get the torpedo.
tbh i wish it was a turret instead i wouldn't mind giving up a turret for it.
Yeah. Sadly, with its 180 degree arc, can't really use it as a turret. With 2-piece Adapted Maco, you get all the extra torp dmg. Along with the Gravimetric Torp + Dyson Particle Console, you're looking at another +22% Torp dmg, plus extra CrtH (+3.0%); and extra CrtD (for the full set).
You *might* consider replacing 1 DHC for the experimental proton wep, if you also fit the Dyson Particle Console (for thar +3.0% CrtH). But on most 'normal' ships, I'm guessing you're better off just with the torp.
i could fit the console but it would seem like a useless used up slot just to get the 2 set bonus.
but the weapon is also useless for a pure cannon torp build without the 3rd set bonus for CRF.
wish they didn't split the 2 firing modes for the 2 set and 3 set bonuses. as long as you have atleast 2 pieces i believe the weapon itself should gain the ability bonuses.
would it hurt my build if i use all 3 pieces? im using a AP DHC/Turret setup with the obelisk set, KCB set i plan to replace my space set with the adapted maco.
Then you have the set bonuses... Yes, the +3% crit chance on the 2 piece set is nice. But the gravimetric torp is, itself, kind of pointless. It sacrifices 25% of the DPS of a photon torpedo to to get a *chance*to cause a rather weak rift thing on normal shots, or a guaranteed rather weak rift thing if you High Yield it. But then you're forced into using torpedo abilities to see any kind unique features out of it, and even then, you're only going to put those unique features to best use if you are also slapping down gravity wells so that the rift can affect multiple enemies. Basically the gravimetric torp is no better than the Omega torp on high yield but significantly weaker with standard DPS. And if you need something to clean vermin out of your gravity wells, the Hargh'peng is better than both of them since it's fast, can't be intercepted, and offers two generously large AOE explosions per launch without needing to spend tactical slots.
The three piece bonus is even worse. +10% chance for crits on photon torpedo launchers?!? Amazing! ... But now you've got a problem since the gravimetric torp is low DPS and doesn't play nicely with projectile doffs because its reload time is 8 seconds instead of 6. So you'll want a pair of standard photon torpedo launchers on the front, the gravimetric torp on the back, which leaves you with either 4 or 5 weapon slots. One of which is going to have to be the experimental proton weapon, and another is probably going to be a cutting beam, so now you're down to either 2 or 3 actual, good, energy based weapons to get through the target's shields.
Equipping the set also lets you use Fire At Will and Rapid Fire with the EPW. ... Except it only has a 180 degree arc, so it doesn't really broadside (your optimum arc is, what, like 15 degrees at that point?). And if you're going to make a ship with a focus on forward firepower then why wouldn't you just use dual beams or single cannons with scatter volley?
I just can't seem to find a configuration that really works well with this set.
And now that I've thoroughly threadjacked my own topic... :rolleyes:
i use 3 piece on BFAW avenger works nicely , 3beams rear, 2 + experimental plasma + those 2 Dyson weps front
My latest build uses it even more:
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=icicle_3238
(I modify this for Stfs using CSV x 2 instead ApD and CRf + LtC goes to sci for GW )
Torp is useles for me (I specialise in energy weps) so i showed it aft, the CRF gain on Experimental , 10% CritD and reduced energy drain (1 less turet) outguns missing turret aft for that torp
Now imagine Scimitar with similar setup
However whether it's better than anything else you could slot there...well probably not but at least it will benefit from FAW
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Nice so my allready awesome weps will be more awesome
Thanks
P.S. I fell like guinea pig flying Raider with dyson set lol
Wait what? Why in the WORLD would you bother with a Turret on the front of your ship? To cover your rear? WHAT? Are you serious?
I mean yes, you are weakening your damage by not having a turret shoot back to front but only an absolute fool would even worry about your rear end damage so much as to put a turret in a forward slot. Sorry but that idea was just so inane I could hardly believe I read it.
However, I completely agree with your assessment. I wanted to like this set but it is not likable at all. The EPW is pathetically weak, too hard to boost, not worth boosting, does not work with Subsystem Targeting (which may have made it barely useable), cannot serve as a turret (which it should be), and is a bit wonky besides.
The Torp as you say is also garbage. The Rift deals so little damage that even the High Yield version can rarely kill fighters and it has next to no pulling or holding power. The fire rate of the torp is too slow to be that great and even with the full 3 piece set the High Yield of this thing is barely as strong as the High Yield of a normal Photon Torp and nowhere near as powerful as Quantums, Plasma, or the Omega Torp.
So basically you get a worthless beam/cannon, a worthless torpedo, and a console that is only vaguely worthwhile. Nice set guys.
The Dyson ship set by comparison is actually pretty good from my testing even if some bonuses are a bit odd. So you did fine there but dropped the ball on this odd man out weapon set.
i knew there had to be some limiter relating to normal per cycle procs interfering with the 25% chance every crit, that explains the performance of these proton pol weapons, glad to hear this is getting fixed, but this might be to powerful, with 20%+ base crit chances romulan captains can get, without spire tac consoles.
Thank you for that reply, Hawk. Some of the results appeared plausible as just how the cookie crumbled...but some of them were definite head-scratchers.
And uh, just to be sure here...the proc change to a per pulse check (based on the crit, in this case) is only being made to this weapon for that per pulse thing (akin to what I call a per pulse goodie like DEM, Tet Glider - albeit with the crit required) and not in general to procs...so things like Phasers, Disruptors, Plasma, Tetryon, etc will still just be the cycle instead of pulse, right?
edit: Well, this sort of weapon sort of thing...
I can quite honestly say DDIS this is a PvP weapon more than anything. I don't think it will be as bad as you think, besides you can always slot a dyson rep armour console or two.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Ding. Bug aside, this 3-piece seems made for cannon escorts. Throw on CRF III, TS III, and BO I and go to town.
It is meh on a beam boat, which is the case really for any 3-set bonus with a torpedo.
I have never noticed the Rift do that much real damage. Spread can help but if you are already going to use a GW then the Torp is sort of redundant rather than useful. Also if you can pull things together with GW then there are FAR better Torps to use than this to capitalize on it... Like pretty much all of them. Specifically the plash from the Omega High Yield, the Romulan Hyper (spread of utter doom or endless string of jade pearls), The torp from the T'Varo, or any solid Quantum spread with high CTH.
On a Cannon Escort you are wasting time with that Torp and you are losing out on the option of a powerful Beam Overload III from Dual Beam Banks which is a real shame because a good BO 3 = No more shield Facing and many times no more enemy. I have seen crits on BO 3 get over 90K.
I do think you are just responding out of knee-jerk. I see crits from that torpedo spread with a decent graviton generators skill produce double that in total. BO/CRF is just to drop their shields. Then again, I do have a ridiculous critH/D.
Also, destructible torpedoes, really do not work at all the instant BFAW hits the scene. HY is really only useful for the borg, slow-moving as they are.
/shrugs.
PS. the reason why it does so little damage for you bolded.