Building a ship around the new CRTH and CRTD spire consoles.

redsnake721

So my Primary toon is a Tac and I have aquired 5 Antiproton, 5 Polaron, 5 Disruptor CTRH consoles and 5 Polaron and Plasma CRTD consoles.
Now with BFAW being broken I will only discuss Escorts.

I have played around testing in the JHAS, Breen Raider, Avenger, Fleet Armitage. Fleet MVAE, Fleet Defiant.
Now I am wanting input on different builds as it seems a cookie-cutter build is looming in the distance. What I mean is: To exploit these consoles to their fullest is seems that players are going to use Plasmonic leech, Borg Console, Zero point, Tachyokinetic converter then if room a Fleet Neutronium-pwr transfer. And 2 Romulan Embassy Tac boffs. Now I have had success with the CRTD Tac consoles and the listed Uni consoles using CRTDx3 weapons. I usualy run my CMDR Tac with TT1,CSV,CRF2,APB3 and then the 2nd Tac officer with a BO and if its a LT station BO,APB.

As far as space sets I tested with i used 2 piece Borg and Elite Fleet Resiliant. But also using Romulan Eng (with buff to attack patterns) and the Omega Deflector did really well also. I tried the obelisk core and antiproton Turret for the 2 piece Antiproton buff also. My warp core for non-antiproton builds is a Elite fleet Hyper-charged (A-W, AMP, A-cap)

Needless to say with the CRTD consoles and weapons I was doing really, really big crits and Cruisers were popping with one good combo. Now with the CRTH consoles I used the same layout but with Voth Antiproton weapons. A mix of ACCx3 and CRTDx3 weapons.
This also preformed extremely well. But after doing multiple starbase 24's and all the STF's and Fleet actions I see that the CRTD build kills faster. If you can take out a fresh Cruiser in one good crit, nuff said.

My concern is that, is this: (Plasmonic leech, Borg Console, Zero point, Tachyokinetic converter then if room a Fleet Neutronium-pwr transfer. And 2 Romulan Embassy Tac boffs.) all that there is when building one of these CRTH/CRTD monsters?
I also typicaly use the Attack pattern Doff and some technicians and some EP doffs.

P.S. The ship that hit the hardest and killed the fastest was the Breen Raider. I'm guessing it was do to the Flank bonus.

P.S.S. The Fleet Armitage with it's LT CMDR Eng station running ET,EPTW2, DEM2 and Marion Doff did some amazing things with the CRTH/Antiproton build.

saxfire

id try the armitage with epts3 eptw1 dem1 instead, since the dem is not rly a dps output but the marion is the whole point of it, or eptw3 dem1, but i would leave that to ships that can actually do it properly...

saxfire

dont forget the elachi console for 15% critD

I wouldn't bother with CritD consoles in fleet since they are only 40% efficinecy when the critH consoles are around 80% efficiency. compare that to the ideal dps boost 1/10 and you will see that critD was waste of fleeet credits and dilithium

redsnake721

I only took the Armitage out for 3 STF's and a Starbase defence mission. It did a bunch of one shot insta-kills on Negh'vars and spheres, thats why I commented on it. But I will try the EPTW1,EPTS3, DEM. But the way I had it does lack a shield heal besides TSS but honestly I never needed it. Targets were exploding before I ever needed to heal.

dahminus

The crtd would only give a +40% to crit severity on a 5 tactical ship.

The crth gives 8% crit chance on a 5 console ship.

Would 40% severity damage make the difference? Your weapons should be around 200% before these consoles come into play...i would think critting more at a slightly weaker crit

In fact, one of my tricks was to stack as much crt chance in world of wcraft. It took a while expansion for everyone else to start doing the same. They would crit bigger. I would crit a lot more.

Yes. Crth is the way to go, especially since the crth consoles are twice the supposed ratio.

noblet

Yep, crit chance all the way. You'll get more out of them and kill faster. I can't imagine someone having so much crit chance already that crit dmg becomes more damaging.

coffeemike

I thought BFAW was fixed in the last patch already?

starsword1989

Crit chance is always the way to go, it opens up for many builds. The Romulan Reputation T4passive gives you a placate chance whenever you crit hit an opponent (which is very very useful), voth antiproton weapons, protonic polaron weapons, Valdore console, etc, all rely on crit chance to be effective.

But you want to hit harder? Get weapons with critD x3 mods, dual heavy cannons give an extra 10% critD.

nikephorus

coffeemike wrote: »

I thought BFAW was fixed in the last patch already?

It's still broken. It doesn't crit at all right now.

capnshadow27

nikephorus wrote: »

It's still broken. It doesn't crit at all right now.

I think there is a new word for FAW.

Brixed (noun) ~ A state of flux of being both fixed and broken at the same time.

Kind of like Duct taping a bumper on, or using tape to fix your glasses. They are "fixed" but still broken.

This a thing i will make it a thing now.

shookyang

You really need to look at your passive critical hit and severity to better determine which will be better for you.

On my Fleet Defiant, I have:
88% critical severity (passive)
70% critical severity (on each DHC I have)
11.7% critical hit

As was stated before, on a 5 tactical console ship:
5x the CritD consoles will give you 40% critical severity
5x the CritH consoles will give you 8% critical hit

Potentially, if I went with:
- 5x CritD consoles, I would have 88% + 40% + 70%, giving me a total of 198% (compared to my current 158%). Or, a 45% increase in my critical severity before factoring my weapons in.
- 5x CritH consoles, I would have 11.7% + 8%, giving me a total of 19.7%. Or, a 68% increase in my critical hit.

So, I would benefit more with CritH, as it's over a 50% increase in my critical hit. But, it's different for everyone, so you'll need to figure out what your passive critical hit and severity are before you decide which you should go with.

noblet

shookyang wrote: »

You really need to look at your passive critical hit and severity to better determine which will be better for you.

On my Fleet Defiant, I have:
88% critical severity (passive)
70% critical severity (on each DHC I have)
11.7% critical hit

As was stated before, on a 5 tactical console ship:
5x the CritD consoles will give you 40% critical severity
5x the CritH consoles will give you 8% critical hit

Potentially, if I went with:
- 5x CritD consoles, I would have 88% + 40% + 70%, giving me a total of 198% (compared to my current 158%). Or, a 45% increase in my critical severity before factoring my weapons in.
- 5x CritH consoles, I would have 11.7% + 8%, giving me a total of 19.7%. Or, a 68% increase in my critical hit.

So, I would benefit more with CritH, as it's over a 50% increase in my critical hit. But, it's different for everyone, so you'll need to figure out what your passive critical hit and severity are before you decide which you should go with.

That's exactly the point. And it's not different for everyone. You'd need to have an impossibly high crit chance already for critD console to be more damaging. Thus, it's the same for everyone - critH consoles are better.

cruisin1500

I was looking at this. With the dyson consoles you could even use a photon torpedo and boost your torpedoes to 25 percent critical chance with just the dyson three piece set. This is without APA on.

The console gives a 10% crth to 'photon' projectile weapons. Not to mention a 22.9% increase to damage of photon projectiles. With some of your other consoles I imagine the crth is even higher on the torpedo. Crth at 15-20 percent with crf3 or csv would crit so much so often!

noblet

cruisin1500 wrote: »

I was looking at this. With the dyson consoles you could even use a photon torpedo and boost your torpedoes to 25 percent critical chance with just the dyson three piece set. This is without APA on.

The console gives a 10% crth to 'photon' projectile weapons. Not to mention a 22.9% increase to damage of photon projectiles. With some of your other consoles I imagine the crth is even higher on the torpedo. Crth at 15-20 percent with crf3 or csv would crit so much so often!

There's more to a fit than that single torp. A single torp going crit isn't going to make up for rest of the guns.

cruisin1500

true but you could put in all photon torps then

thishorizon

my experience:

the critD actually outperforms while under alpha. you are already critting more....now they hit that much harder.

now this is pvp focused mind you, i dont intend to kill anyone outside of my alpha run in the first place.

therefore....for me....its crtD.

i am popping off 14-18k dhc crits vs hardened targets. had a 26k today vs a nuked scanned target. and thats just 1 volley out of a crf run.

so, for pve, and statistically, i can see how the crtH is definitely your go to....but if you only plan to kill targets while you alpha....as you are only most likely to in pvp... then i would challenge the stats.

edit: obviously for tac captains consideration

have fun kill bad guys

noblet

cruisin1500 wrote: »

true but you could put in all photon torps then

A torp boat isn't going to be fit full of short cooldown photon torps that get blocked by shield. This doesn't work, no matter how you slice it.

rylanadionysis

noblet wrote: »

That's exactly the point. And it's not different for everyone. You'd need to have an impossibly high crit chance already for critD console to be more damaging. Thus, it's the same for everyone - critH consoles are better.

Incorrect. Over 20 chance (romulans and extreme crit nuts with lots of embassy SROs on 3 tactical boff slot ships) critD always outperforms more H.

Base damage of 1000, with 100 severity, H vs D below.

Crit a hundred times for 2000

Crit ninety-two times for 2400

Which is better?

Because in practice the way the RNG works, once youre over 20 crit you practically always crit at least twice a cycle with a 7 weapon ship. You can never stack enough critH to achieve 3/cycle (thats about 43 percent critH territory).

Its per weapon.

Ive seen a crapload of parses lately of people that championed critH stacking, and im seeing mediocre returns compared to the sheer insanity I saw when I put 5x CritD consoles on one of my Romulans (who already has 28 chance, mind).

I would never give up 40 severity for 8 chance. Never. 8 percent more crits that crit for 2/3 of what they were before... i swear some of the math nuts on this board are nuts.

Stack critH all day, I promise you wont hit as hard as if youd taken an already high crit and added severity to it.

The only people that should even be putting critH on their ships with consoles are the ones that either use AP CritDx3 DHCs and have fully specced into D ALREADY, or those that have a critH less than 15-20 percent with decent severity (130+)now.

How many people run AP critDx3 or have a critD over 130 without the consoles? Not many.

noblet

Wrong. Not everyone is Romulan, not everyone is tac, tac can't have alpha active all the time, and not everyone use Romulan boffs. Even with all of the above, critH still outdps critD by a long shot. Existing Romulan warbrids won't outdps an andorian escort anyway, making the additional crit of being Romulan a moot point.

I have no idea where your crit 100 times vs 94 times come from. It sounds like one of these things pulled out of the special place where sun don't shine.:rolleyes:

The fact is, 8% additional crit doubles most people's base crit chance, that's 100% increase in dps from crits. The same 5 tact consoles give 40% crit severity, it sounds like a lot until you realize crit dmg starts at 200% instead of 0% of crit chance. Even if you have 0 crit severity before, it's merely a 20% increase in dps from crits. If you already have some crit severity, above the 200%, it's even less than 20% increase in dps.

rodentmaster

What noblet said.

You spoke as if 20% crit were no big deal. "As if" indeed...