Build Assistance Requested

tggrinc

.....Is the 30K your talking about spike damage? Or is it done over several seconds?

.....If it's a spike hit there are several ways to create spike dmg. Mines can do well over 100k with a single DPB3 set. Some torps can do 20-50K if they crit.

.....If it's over a range of seconds then you're talking about an alpha strike. That's all about maxing your build to the inth degree. And timing your attack so that you have every weapon, damage buff, target debuff, and exploit running at the same time. It also includes being at the optimum distance from your target for your weapon type, and making sure that your target is not running any defensive buffs that counter yours at the moment of the strike.

.....You can probably find lots of threads on how to create various types of alpha strikes. I suggest starting a new thread for that purpose. But you have to give those who read it a clear starting point. If you want to work with some of what you have, give them your current build as a starting point. If you want to build a ship from scratch, you should search the forums and online for alpha builds before starting a new thread. Then come back to the forums with the one that's closest to what you want to build and ask for advice on how to finish the build and how to fly it for maximum effect.


.....None of the previous info I gave you is aimed at alpha strikes or spike damage. But here is some basic info since I have a better idea of what you're looking for.

....You have to start with weapons that have the maximum combination of crit chance, crit dmg, and base dmg. Then you have to maximize your set up with the best consoles, dmg buffs, target debuffs, power level buffs, Doff's, and skill set that max out your setup.
.....When you initiate the strike, you have to be at optimal target distance for your weapon type and time your attack so that your target isn't running buffs and debuffs that will reduce your affect on it.

.....A PvP player will tell you how important accuracy is. Accuracy isn't a significant factor in PvE. Everything about your weapons and setup should be aimed at improving crit chance, crit dmg, and base dmg, in that order.

.....Disruptors probably won't be the weapon of choice, the proc is primarily meant to reduce your targets defense so that you and all of your team do more dmg over time. If you want alpha strike spike dmg, increased DPS over time is not your goal.

.....Beam builds are generally designed for max DPS over time, not spike dmg or an alpha strike. Although you may find some folks that have know how to build one.

.....The DBB beam overload does spike damage but will reduce the effectiveness of an alpha because of the weapon power penalty. And it only fires once in the time it takes to run the strike.

.....Your skill set & rep perks should be aimed at maximizing dmg output and power level boosts.

.....You may want to consider a ROM char for max dmg output, they rule the dmg output kingdom atm. At least from what I hear.

tggrinc

.....On the subject of weapon power.

.....Maximum damage output is attained at 100% power. You do not get more damage output if your weapon power is at 125 or higher. The only way to increase the damage done to your target from that point is damage buffs, weapon buffs, target debuffs, etc. You begin to lose damage output as soon as you drop below 100%.

.....Running weapon power at 125 and buffing that power level means that your weapons can maintain 100% damage output for longer periods of time. Power boosting & buffing makes sure that your weapon power level is at 100% or higher every time your energy weapons fire.

.....DHC's make the best use of weapon power due to the short firing cycle.
.....I.E. They use the maximum power available to create the maximum damage output with the shortest firing cycle. Which gives the power levels time to recover from each volley.

.....Because the DHC's are already the most efficient in terms of damage output vs power usage, you'll reach a point of diminishing returns with weapon power overboosting faster with DHC's than you would with beams or DBB's. Where that point is will depend on the build.

.....The reverse is true of beams or any weapon with a long firing cycle. They have a smaller power penalty, but they have a longer firing cycle which gives weapon power less time to recover. This increases the possibility that they will be firing when weapon power is below 100%.

.....This means that beams and DBB's benefit more from weapon power overboosting than cannons. You can put a lot more bonus power into weapons when using them before you reach the point of diminishing returns.

EXAMPLE: A DBB using beam overload hits weapon power for a -25. If you don't have weapon power overboosted or buffed, your weapon power levels will drop to under 100%. This will reduce the damage output of all energy attacks that fire before weapon power recovers to 100% or higher.



Do not confuse damage output with the actual damage to a target or overall DPS.
...Damage output is the maximum damage that the weapon can put out at a given power level. The buffs (debuffs, etc) that you apply, all work from that base number.
...The damage done to your target is a function of the damage output by the weapon over a given distance AND all of the buffs, debuffs, resistances, etc that are applied to you and the target from Boff's, doff's, consoles, equipment sets, etc.
...Your overall DPS is a function of your damage to each target and how many targets you can engage or damage with each attack. This should be much higher than your DPS to one target, especially if you're using AOE attacks.

.....In terms of potential damage output, no matter how much you over boost or buff power levels, you'll never exceed 100% of the damage potential that each weapon can generate at 100% power. (plus buffs, etc, etc.) So a DHC, given the same power level, buffs, etc, will always outperform a beam.

.....However, in terms of DPS delivered by one ship to one target, it is possible for beams and other weapons to outperform DHC's. Beam boats can focus eight beams on a single target. DHC's are limited to five plus turrets if you equip them. This is the type of damage that you want to focus on for alpha strikes. CRF, BO, and HY maximize this type of damage.

.....In terms of your overall DPS, Beams can potentially outperform DHC's here as well since FAW fires in all directions but CSV is restricted to a cone in front of the ship. Again, you'll see the greatest benefits in overall DPS from AOE attacks like FAW and CSV.

crusty8mac

bitemepwe wrote: »

Sadly I am on a smart phone as my internet is down and the function does not work, but thanks for the reminder.

Awwww, man. I hate that for you.

dahminus

My builds are sustained...30k burst is garbage

tggrinc

dahminus wrote: »

My builds are sustained...30k burst is garbage

.....I can't tell from his request whether he's looking for sustained DPS or an alpha strike. I only used the 30K number because it was mentioned, I know 30K is unusual for a single weapon hit. And I don't parse so I don't know what an avg dps is vs an uber dps. But again, not knowing if he's looking at a single hit, an alpha pass, or an avg dps doesn't help.

xanathaar

As always, thanks to you all for taking the time to answer me.

In regards to the questions thats popping up, since my goal is to do eSTF's as "fast" as possible and ultimately to do as much dps over the eSTF as I can, the overall goal is sustained DPS and not spikes.

Spikes can help, especially in regards to travel time, but overall it's the total dps of the run that I want increased and not just a few hard hits.

I understand the basics of Alpha strikes, but I don't honestly find them very useful in PVE except in very specific cases, holding everything back just to hit 1 target hard aint all that good when you gotta chip away at 10 targets.

So far, I have managed a sustained dps of around 10k with the Aux2Bat build by dahminus.

Im sure a lot of this is simply about lack of skills, but im also worried it's about not knowing the right timing to use what abilities and about it being primarily solo-work, not much team effort in PUG STF's.

tggrinc

You might want to look into these guys channels. They're all about DPS.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=955451


Some info from my noob experience with parsing.
.....I've just started parsing in the past few days. Your results may vary depending on your parser and/or the settings in it. I've only run about 3 dozen ESTF's with the parser(s) running, but this is what I've learned so far.

NOTE - These are from PUG ESTF's. This is using the base settings in the parser and manually starting & stopping the combat log.

.....I started with ACT parser and the Arias sto.cs plugin. I got some good news and some bad news.
.....The good news is that I have been consistently the #1 damage producer (except with my Bop that runs mines) and if I'm not not #1 then I'm #2.
.....The bad news was that my all DHC loadout was only producing around 7-8k dps on avg. My all beam load out was producing just under that at 6-7k.
.....And the other bad news was this. When I wasn't number one, the person that was #1 was generating two to three times as much DPS as I was. Thus far they have been exclusively romulan.

.....I found another thread about DPS channels (noted above) and they said to use a different combat log reader. "http://tinyurl.com/onc6wd6" It requires java runtime environment 7 or newer. I installed it and looked over the old logs that I had just looked at in ACT.

.....Reading the same logs, the new logger was seeing 2-3k more dps from my beam boats. The way it computes DPS is slightly different from the ACT parser.



A note on weapon performance.
.....My DHC's saw little to no change in DPS between the parsers. I did see one ISE at 13K. So I ran the same ESTF's with a Bort tac beam boat (FAW II & III) and compared it to my Tac boat with DHC's (CSV I & II). (All other powrer were the same.)
.....The beam boat got consistently higher DPS than the DHC's. Clearly, the time it takes to get my DHC's on target is taking a bigger toll on my overall DPS throughout the ESTF than I thought it was.
.....So I tried the full cannon set up on a smaller, more agile ship that could still run the same compliment of DHC's, powers, and tac consoles as the Bort. I wondered if the greater mobility would allow the DHC's to make up the difference. It didn't. The DHC's, even running CSV III, simply can't engage as many targets as the beams can when running FAW II & III.

.....Once on target, the DHC's seem to take down a target faster. But the beams easily do more DPS over the course of the event.

.....I was running two EP2W continuously and the beams regularly took my weapon power below 100%. The DHC's rarely do that. But the power penalty is apparently smaller than the benefit of running 6-8 beams & FAW.

.....The other thing I learned, since I have not flown a beam boat much before this, is that flying the beam boat is healthier than running the cannons. With the cannons I'm usually sitting still, so I have no defense bonus and am unable to show an attacker another shield face. With the beam boat neither of those things is an issue.

dahminus

Only extremely good pilots should use dual heavy cannons when dps racing in stfs, I would assume most players lack that capacity.

Even the best cannon pilot will not be able to catch the best beam pilot. Beams just have much too superior arc and bfaw trigger

evilbsg62

if it was me i would double up on tac team get EP2E DEM and A2B an ride. BT shields is handy also but you can muller someone with BT engines when its doing right

speed tanker here.

azrac

Once again thanks guys, I have been running stf's with this setup for a while now and im averaging 12k dps with the ACT dps "meter"

I can get over that in short "spikes", but mostly that seems my average for a 10-12 minutes STF-run with a PUG.

Im usually nr.1, but I still feel like im missing out on a lot.

So, a few more questions in case anyone is still reading this.

1: Is the Mogh better than the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship (the bug ship) ?
2: Which "Space" set should I run with for max dps, I got almost all of them now except the Adapted K.H.G which im working on.
3: Are there any special skill-combo I should try to get out or is it just "on-cooldown" that I should use most except the long-time or heavy dps skills ?.

Thanks as always for your time and effort!

rodentmaster

Better? Not necessarily. JHAS is one of the best ships in the game. Mogh is also one of the best ships in the game. Just different playstyles. One is more escort/raider, the other more battlecruiser. Different boff setups also.

So, better? Nah. Just different.

Questions 2 and 3 depend on your setup, your preference, and are pretty subjective. I think KHG is really good, personally. I don't use it on all ships, but I like it. Especially the engine. Borg set really has its uses too. Some folks love the Omega Force set (not me, not as much). You can do a lot and still have good results.

azrac

Sorry Rodentmaster, I should have clarified that when I ask about Better I mean dps wise, which will theoretically output the most dps, in the hands of a novice player in a Beam boat.

rodentmaster

I think my answer still stands. It really is just different ways of achieving the same goal. I think that either one can probably do the same damage as the other in most cases. I'd say the bug probably holds an advantage, as it is much more like an escort. However this type of setup would really benefit from DHCs instead of beams. You can set the Mogh up the same way but it can just as easily be used for beams.

My suggestion: If you've already got the mogh, use it and enjoy it. Wait to even think about the super-pricey JHAS until such time as you are wise enough and experienced enough to appreciate the subtle differences. Otherwise you'll spend a lot of credits and not notice a difference.

azrac

I already have the JHAS too

Im just trying to figure out if 8 beams 4 tactical consoles beat 7 beams 5 tac consoles really

rodentmaster

Ah, there ya go :P

I think the 4 forward weapons with 5 consoles will out DPS (in perfect conditions) 5 forward weapons and 4 consoles, because of minor variations and power drain, etc... I still think a Mogh can give it a run for its money though.

azrac

Ok thanks Rodentmaster, i guess i'll have to experiment and see how it goes

I like the Mogh, but the JHAS is also awesome and I miss a bit more speedy ship

tggrinc

@ xanathaar - Would you be willing to post your current build in the planner? It'd be interesting to see what you've done to it since the OP.

azrac

Of course, this is what im currently running.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=azracmogh3_0

Thats doing on average 10-12k dps in Borg ESTF's and surviving everything but bad luck, like crit stupidtorpedo'es that goes through shields for 50k.

Sometimes I gotta tuck tail and run out to "heal", but mostly I can tank whatever im facing solo and take it down as well.

It's still far below what I would like to achieve and I still see people beating me with 5-6k at times

tggrinc

.....You could swap enhanced shield for precision on tier II of the Rom rep. And Advanced Hull for Advanced targeting on tier II of the dyson rep. That might give you some more dmg.

.....A 1-2% boost would take you from 10-12K to 13-14K.

azrac

Thanks for the suggestion, I implemented the change

tggrinc

.....I went thru your skills and made changes. The goal was to max out all items that affected damage output and then max out as many of the core hull, shield, and resistance buffs as possible.

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=moghsuggestone_4737

Changes:
Removed everything from Aux performance. - You're not using Aux2Batt for it's effect on your power levels. It's only there because of the Doff bonus. The Doff bonus isn't affected by it. So no need to invest in it.

Removed everything from Engine performance. - This only gives you a small flat bonus to engine power levels. Which you shouldn't need if you max Warp core potential and efficiency. (The Mogh is already pretty mobile, and you have Evasive maneuvers as well.)

Removed everything from Projectile weapons. - You're not using them and you want to max out the build, so I took the points and used them elsewhere.

Removed everything from Power insulators. - you haven't maxed it out so you won't see much of a boost from it. better to use those points in Shield Emitters and Shield Systems.

Removed everything from Flow capacitors. - I know this affects the plasmonic leach, but I don't know how much it affects your target or you. This isn't a drain build so I think the loss to you will be minimal.
NOTE: You could take 3 notches out of Starship Maneuvers (reducing it from 99 to 84%). And then put that back into Flow Capacitors to gain back the 84% you originally had in it. And you wouldn't be giving up anything that seriously affects your damage output or core survivability.



After removing the above items you can now Max out everything below.
Armor reinforcement
Weapon performance
Hull plating
Shield performance
Starship Maneuvers
Starship Targeting
EPS
Warp Core Potential
Structural Integrity
Warp Core Efficiency
Shield systems
Hull repair
Shield Emitters

earlnyghthawk

azrac wrote: »

Thats doing on average 10-12k dps in Borg ESTF's and surviving everything but bad luck, like crit stupidtorpedo'es that goes through shields for 50k.
(

Nono, those are called "Gozer torps o' doom":D

azrac

@tggrinc,

I have now optimzed according to your specs, I can't really see a DPS change but you are right that I had points in several unused area's from old specs

@earlnyghthawk, Call them whatever you want, but christ-al-****ing-mighty they are annoying, one just hit mef or 54312 damage, straight through full shields......POP went the weasel.

tggrinc

.....Was the ship any less squishy with the changes? I had hoped that your durability would go up so that you could maintain optimum weapon distance for longer periods of time, therefore allowing you to do more dmg.


.....I had also hoped that you'd see a small damage boost after maxing out all the damage skills. It is possible that the plasmonic leech makes maxing out the "performance" skill unnecessary. The performance skills give you a small flat bonus to the power level in whatever system they are related to. The Leech does something similar but on an active basis.

.....If the leech is effective at maintaining power levels without any investment in Flow capacitors; you can start taking some skills out of weapon & shield performance until you see a drop in their actual output that you don't like.
.....If you can spend 9K maxing out flow capacitors and get the same performance as maxing out both Weapon & Shield performance skills; you've still saved skill points that you can put elsewhere. Power insulators or Inertial Dampers will give you drain and hold resists.
....But you've reached the max damage output that you're going to get from the skill set so moving things around now is more about getting more overall out of your skills rather than more damage.


Thoughts about weapons:
.....I don't know what the Elite fleets offer, but I would focus on maxing out crtH, crtD, and then dmg, in that order. You do not need accuracy in ESTFs. I have crthx3 mk XI's. My hit rate is a steady 100%, with the very rare drop to 99% or a high 98%.
NOTE: If you have any thoughts of using your ship in PvP, you max out accuracy first, then crtH, crtD, and finally dmg.

.....You could switch to plasmas and get more damage. There are embassy consoles that will boost the plasma DOT.

.....You could add the embassy consoles and add plasma DOT to your disruptors, but it would not be as big a boost as it would be if it were applied to plasma weapons.

.....If you switch to plasmas you should get a Romulan experimental beam array. It does not drain weapon energy when fired with other weapons and it has a wider firing arc.
.....Combine it with the zero point console you get a 7.6% plasma damage boost and +15.2 to your EPS systems.
NOTE: The plasma hyperflux from the 3 piece set does big damage but you have to give up a weapon slot for the Romulan hyper torpedo to get it. So you have to decide if the hyper torp with it's limited arc and the special attack will generate as much overall DPS as the beam that you give up.


Thoughts about consoles:
.....I don't know which fleet tac consoles you got, (it doesn't show me the exploit bonus) but again you want to max out crtH, then crtD, etc.

.....The bioneral infusion circuit gives a 15.2% bonus to crit severity, A good bonus by itself. +17.2 to Structural integrity and decompiler.
.....Combine it with a single Heavy Crescent wave cannon you get a 7.6% bonus to your disruptor damage and +15.2 to starship shield systems. Again, you have to decide if the set bonus will allow you to put out more DPS than you would have with the single beam.


Thoughts about Shield, Def, Engine sets, etc.
.....Your planner shows tier X Assimlated gear. The XII's do perform better. I cannot quantify it because I can't find the stats online. But the regenerative hull and shield are always high on my list for amounts healed. The only thing that heals me for more points is the Aux2hull which I have running evey 15 seconds. They are expensive though, so if you can tank as well as you'd like, there is no need to go get them. They aren't any good for PvP.

....I haven't seen them yet but I hear that the full Dyson set is the bees knees atm. But I don't know how it fares against the Borg as it's obviously aimed at the Voth.


Other thoughts about Doff's:
.....You can get up to 6 doff's assigned to space duties. I don't remember how, but it can be done.

That gives you 2-3 Doff's slots to consider.
1) There are Doff's that boost system efficiency.
2) And Doff's that give a chance to boost all system power levels on any use of an emergency power.
But it doesn't sound like power levels are limiting you atm.

.....So I was thinking you'd want to go for the doff's that give you bonus damage against the Borg. I believe the purple ones give a 10% bonus to all damage. (there are others for other enemies)

.....I know there are Doff's that give bonus damage vs particular opponents AND have their normal power, but I'm not certain what combinations they are available in or how hard they are to get.


Other thoughts about Boff's:
.....Nausican Boff's give you 1.?% more damage with all weapons. It stacks from what I know.
.....If you feel like your ship is still a bit squishy when set up for all dmg out and few healing abilities, you can get human Boff's if you reach tier 5 in maruading. Or at least that's what I'm told. All humans give a boost to hull healing.
.....I think there are Boff's that give bonus damage vs particular opponents along with they're normal power, but I'm not certain of that.