Daeinos vs. Mogai

lan451

Alright so I need some advice from you ship gurus.

Just got to 50 on my new Rom and am looking to use one of these ships, but I'm having a problem deciding on which one. Both of them look similar in their capabilities, but have enough differences that I can't decide.

A few things I have/want to use/am looking for:

-Tac Captain
-Plasma DHC build
-Valdore unlocked, will be using the console regardless of the ship
-PVE only
-For the time being, let's assume that the Fleet versions of either are off limits. I would be using my Vet Token for the Mogai, so the Fleet version would cost 4 FSMs, and I don't have the Spire for the Fleet Daeinos

So a few questions I have. How does the Mogai/Valdore 2 piece set bonus stack up against the Daeinos attack/regen modes?

How effective is the Mogai console? Is it even worth using or just something there for the set bonus?

What have been your experiences with either of these ships?

I'd like to get some more opinions on these ships before I burn my Vet Token on the Mogai. Can't get that back once it's spent so I'm a bit hesitant to pick it up and find out that it's worse than the Daeinos I already have.

Any advice or builds that you found effective on these ships would be most welcome.

Thanks!

alfamega

i'd say mogai.
2 piece bonus improves your weapon energy drain, basically you can ignore power drain of 3 turrets in back.
also electrical spike cannot be resisted as nothing have electrical resists. with skilled particle generators the numbers are quite decent given the fact all tactical buffs will be set off at the same time. 25 less drain means up to 50% more damage for every weapon after first one in difference to all other ships. well, may be cruiser nowadays can compete on that.
also you get 2 tac boffs on mogai, which mean additional attack pattern beta for ex.
daeinos console lotus have much longer cooldown. bit more accuracy, 5 weapon power.

btw. there are 2 vet tokens, one(1000days) is eligible only for vet ship, another(600 days) for ordinary ship. so if you are over 1000 you can get both of them.

tpalelena

I use a fleet mogai with turnrate neutroniums, proton set console, Ap consules, and a valdore console plus plasmonic leech.

It is as dangerous as it is durable.

It may no be the biggest dps escort, but its as durable as a light cruiser.

Also, the leech is better than the 2 part consoles of either ship i think.

warmaker001b

Since we're talking only standard Daeinos and Mogai Retrofit:

- Daeinos has tad bit more hull than Mogai.
- Mogai has better shield mod of 1.0 vs Daeinos 0.83 (that is KDF BOP level shields, paper thin).
- Daeinos has LtCdr Universal, a powerful customization tool.
- Mogai already comes with the basics for a Destroyer implemented: TAC Cmdr/Lt, ENG Ltcdr, very basic SCI Ens to put on Hazard Emitters.


The Mogai 2-piece bonus lessens the drains to your Weapons Power, so your damage output is steadily higher. The cost of even Beam Overload is noticeably lower when you try it out.

Since both have Battle Cloaks, and equal access to RRW BOFF & Traits, they both will perform well weaving in & out of cloaks.

Where the Mogai outshines is when you cook up a good Decloaking Alpha Strike. Brew up your standard TAC BUFFs, hit up Beam Overload for that Dual Beam, ensure Ionized Particle Beam is ready, pop Aux Battery, decloak, and unload everything. With whatever weapons and stuff you have firing plus Beam Overload, that's a good amount of firepower. But the Ionized Particle Beam in effect is a game legal "Double Tap" and more powerful than a BO3 because it's not resisted.

Tip: Ionized Particle Beam feeds off Particle Generators Skill and Aux Power level.

So, in the end, the Mogai is a winner for me due to:
- Easily keeps Weapons Power higher.
- Massive spike potential with the Ionized Particle Beam.

The 2 Mogai Consoles synergizes very well with what the Mogai does.

lan451

Thanks guys. This was exactly the type of stuff I was looking for.

Picked up the Mogai and was not disappointed. That 2 set bonus is really sweet.

hasukurobi

warmaker001b wrote: »

Since we're talking only standard Daeinos and Mogai Retrofit:

- Daeinos has tad bit more hull than Mogai.
- Mogai has better shield mod of 1.0 vs Daeinos 0.83 (that is KDF BOP level shields, paper thin).
- Daeinos has LtCdr Universal, a powerful customization tool.
- Mogai already comes with the basics for a Destroyer implemented: TAC Cmdr/Lt, ENG Ltcdr, very basic SCI Ens to put on Hazard Emitters.


The Mogai 2-piece bonus lessens the drains to your Weapons Power, so your damage output is steadily higher. The cost of even Beam Overload is noticeably lower when you try it out.

Since both have Battle Cloaks, and equal access to RRW BOFF & Traits, they both will perform well weaving in & out of cloaks.

Where the Mogai outshines is when you cook up a good Decloaking Alpha Strike. Brew up your standard TAC BUFFs, hit up Beam Overload for that Dual Beam, ensure Ionized Particle Beam is ready, pop Aux Battery, decloak, and unload everything. With whatever weapons and stuff you have firing plus Beam Overload, that's a good amount of firepower. But the Ionized Particle Beam in effect is a game legal "Double Tap" and more powerful than a BO3 because it's not resisted.

Tip: Ionized Particle Beam feeds off Particle Generators Skill and Aux Power level.

So, in the end, the Mogai is a winner for me due to:
- Easily keeps Weapons Power higher.
- Massive spike potential with the Ionized Particle Beam.

The 2 Mogai Consoles synergizes very well with what the Mogai does.

Not really debating much of what you said but I would like to point out a few perks of the Daeinos. You are ignoring its higher accuracy (which is far more important than just damage) when in weapon's mode. You are also ignoring its Lotus which Vs. a group of small things will clear them right out and against a single target will do more damage than the Ionized Particle Beam, especially fresh out of cloak and all you need to do is focus on Weapons Power and nothing into Particle Generators.

Also with good Flow Caps, Shield Emitters, a Deflector DOFF, and a Warp Theorist DOFF your Inverse Tachyon beam will strip shields from a number of foes, lock them on their path, and heal your shields to full while reducing its own cooldown. That in addition to the nice shield system boost of Regenerative mode can make a big difference for tank on the Daeinos.

Also the Daeinos has a higher impulse modifier and has less inertial slide making it handle a bit quicker and more crisply.

unangbangkay

hasukurobi wrote: »

Not really debating much of what you said but I would like to point out a few perks of the Daeinos. You are ignoring its higher accuracy (which is far more important than just damage) when in weapon's mode. You are also ignoring its Lotus which Vs. a group of small things will clear them right out and against a single target will do more damage than the Ionized Particle Beam, especially fresh out of cloak and all you need to do is focus on Weapons Power and nothing into Particle Generators.

Also with good Flow Caps, Shield Emitters, a Deflector DOFF, and a Warp Theorist DOFF your Inverse Tachyon beam will strip shields from a number of foes, lock them on their path, and heal your shields to full while reducing its own cooldown. That in addition to the nice shield system boost of Regenerative mode can make a big difference for tank on the Daeinos.

Also the Daeinos has a higher impulse modifier and has less inertial slide making it handle a bit quicker and more crisply.

This, and don't forget that the Daeinos has a universal LtC slot, which makes it more flexible and opens access to cool science and tac powers like Gravity Well, Viral Matrix, or adding extra slots to stick in a rank 3 Beam Overload or Attack Pattern Omega.

Lastly, having a Daeinos is a fun indicator of status! Specifically, the status of being CRAZY! Either you've been playing STO so long that you've gone insane (1000-day Veterans), or you were so crazy that you spent $200-$300 on a lifetime membership.

Fly that Daeinos and revel in letting others know how bonkers you are! I know I will!

lan451

Good stuff.

So for the sake of the discussion, how do the Fleet versions stack up against each other? They have 1 more console slot and some more HP/shields, but does that change anything that's been said here?

alfamega

lan451 wrote: »

Good stuff.
So for the sake of the discussion, how do the Fleet versions stack up against each other? They have 1 more console slot and some more HP/shields, but does that change anything that's been said here?

+1 console, usually sci or eng, 10% more hull and shields. nothing more nothing less.
and fleet version is cheaper if you got nonfleet version, 4 to 1 module discount.

lianthelia

Having flied both (well non fleet versions) I personally say the Daeinos. People have mentioned already about the extra accuracy...but also if in regenerative mode the shield systems stat really closes the gap on shield modifier between the two.

The Ionized Particle Beam can be a powerful tool but it also requires a lot of work and requires stats you wouldn't normally put on a Escort/Destroyer...like Auxiliary Power and Particle Generators. Not to mention the Negative Ion Charger can be a pain in the backside to get to proc sometimes.

lan451

Nice, thanks guys. I'm mostly a Feddie, so Warbirds aren't something I'm used to. :P

tmassx

Fleet Mogai until Fleet Daeinos comes
+5 weapon power from mogai set and on pve not to much usefull lightning (cd 3 min).
Fleet Daeinos looks enough durable on pve + DTS console is 2 in 1 +plasma lotus works with you plasma consoles

chrisbrown12009

I can not speak on one, but the Fleet Mogai i know. This is a ship i continue to return to. Ive bought the Scimmie...i hate the space drifting...(its a starship, not a 240sx). I have the Arkif, which IS a great ship, but doesn't survive as long as i like, granted not by much though.(waiting to get fleet version.) i have a fleet DD which tanks like no other, but is slow and i like speed.

My Fleet Valdore (Mogai). Is just wonderful. I have a Nanite Disruptor build that gets me 1st A LOT on Crystal Cat. she can take a hit, and punch back. HARD. my highest crit was in the 47-50K range....and i am not even done with her yet. While she is bigger than i like, she rips through PVE with vicious abandon. No matter what ship ive bought, ive always come back to the Fleet Mogai.

....The Fleet Valdore Class I.R.W. Heartless....because she IS.

warmaker001b

The Vet ship Lotus and all that is fine guys, but the Mogai's Ionized Particle Beam is more powerful than a landed BO3 and can't be resisted. A BO3 and one of these landing on anything, PVE or PVP, is nasty indeed :cool:

hasukurobi

warmaker001b wrote: »

The Vet ship Lotus and all that is fine guys, but the Mogai's Ionized Particle Beam is more powerful than a landed BO3 and can't be resisted. A BO3 and one of these landing on anything, PVE or PVP, is nasty indeed :cool:

But you need to get it to proc properly and it can only ever hit one thing whereas the Lotus can hit several. Also the Lotus gets an accuracy boost thanks to firing mode which helps it out as well.

warmaker001b

hasukurobi wrote: »

But you need to get it to proc properly and it can only ever hit one thing whereas the Lotus can hit several. Also the Lotus gets an accuracy boost thanks to firing mode which helps it out as well.

You don't need the proc to make it more powerful than a BO3. The proc though is icing on the cake if it does pop up. Proc or not, the Ionized Particle Beam cannot be resisted and is nastier than a BO3 in terms of damage also.

Edit to add: Don't think I'm trying to say the Daeinos is a bad ship. I have the KDF & Rom Vet ships on 2 toons and they play nicely, esp. those Universal LtCdr stations. But when it comes down to coming out of cloaks and spiking the living hell out of something, I love my Mogai in that role.

alfamega

tmassx wrote: »

Fleet Mogai until Fleet Daeinos comes
+5 weapon power from mogai set and on pve not to much usefull lightning (cd 3 min).

well, that is not correct.
its not only +5 weapon power, its also +25 drain resistance, which means that you can "feed" 3 turrets or 2 dhc with the same energy as the first weapon, on full power setting.
overall its up to 50% more damage in difference to other ships.
also lightning is strong, irresistible and much more important it is indeed useful in difference to many other warbird consoles.

lan451

Yeah, after playing around with both ships for a bit now I really like the power drain resist on the Mogai. Enough that I'm considering dropping the 4 FSMs for the Fleet version. We'll have to see about that though.

warmaker001b

lan451 wrote: »

Yeah, after playing around with both ships for a bit now I really like the power drain resist on the Mogai. Enough that I'm considering dropping the 4 FSMs for the Fleet version. We'll have to see about that though.

Possession of the Mogai Retrofit makes the Fleet Mogai cheaper at 20k FC and 1 FSM.

lan451

warmaker001b wrote: »

Possession of the Mogai Retrofit makes the Fleet Mogai cheaper at 20k FC and 1 FSM.

I know, but I used my Vet Token for the Mogai Retro so it sadly doesn't count for the discount.

l30p4rd

Only need two words for this.

Fleet Mogai !

sonnikku

Mogai.

It's iconic and looks cooler.

azmodeas

if you start comparing the fleet mogai vs fleet Daeinos... they have the same turn rate . Same console layout . vet ship has 150 less crew ( not that crew mean much ) the vet ships' smaller , and has a more flexible boff layout . Fleet vet has higher hull with slightly lower shield mod. So it still comes out a wash . Apart from the valdore console from the level 20 mogai . an maybe the console from the va mogai .. you could make the case for the mogai . but if you don't want to shell out the money for that . an you have access to the vet ship . I'm not convinced the mogai an it's wing spawn of a small third world country . Is the better option.

Ultimatly all comes down to what you want to use the ship for .

alfamega

azmodeas wrote: »

Apart from the valdore console from the level 20 mogai . an maybe the console from the va mogai .. you could make the case for the mogai .

well, that the point, 2-set from mogai get you godly feeling of true power.

azmodeas wrote: »

but if you don't want to shell out the money for that . an you have access to the vet ship .

agree. subscriber and lifer get fleet daeinos nearly for free. 500 zen is a month stipend.
both mogai are 3000. but its account unlock, while fleet module is a one-time stuff.
so it is trade off between immediate cheap advantage and long therm solid benefit.

dewinuwa

i tried both and i my verdict is Daeinos is better.

chrisbrown12009

dewinuwa wrote: »

i tried both and i my verdict is Daeinos is better.

How so? what am i missing?


Stats on the Daeinos?

alfamega

dewinuwa wrote: »

i tried both and i my verdict is Daeinos is better.

i must agree, daeinos indeed LOOKS better

potasssium

alfamega wrote: »

i must agree, daeinos indeed LOOKS better

The Daeinos is one of the most beautiful ships in the game, where as the mogai looks like a catamaran that lost it's sail...

I only wish I had access to the Daeinos.