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Romulan Playable Race Specific Trait...

breygornbreygorn Member Posts: 189 Arc User
edited December 2013 in Builds, Powers, and Game Mechanics
I do not think that the rommie race trait is working.

rom in rom bird, battle cloak. stealth skill 150, actual stealth 5k, +25% damage.
reman in rom, battle cloak. stealth skill 150, actual stealth 5k, +25% damage.
kdf in bop, battle cloak. stealth skill 150, actual stealth 5k, +15% damage.
fed in gal-x, cloak, stealth skill 0, actual stealth 5k, +15% damage.

umm, there was no actual bonus for the rommie race trait of;
increase damage and stealth value...

:: edit :: added in regular cloak...

note :: the 5k value for actual stealth is +/- .5% (ie: gal-x stealth was only 25 points off total)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by breygorn on

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    pyrogxmk3pyrogxmk3 Member Posts: 206 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I was also involved in testing all this so have a few more pieces of info. Alien KDF captain with a standard battle cloak at 54 aux total is also 4979.4 stealth value when cloaking.

    First off, asking about the values - which started the whole thing - was a confusing mess. "What are the numbers for the Romulan Captain racial bonus "+Stealth while cloaking, +Damage when decloaking"" obtained a range of responses from "Click 'details' on the BOFF's trait to see how much subterfuge gives" or "you can't stack those boffs" to "Covert Operative you have to select while you level up".

    If this hasn't been reported as a bug, it's likely because the romulan racial ability is actually to convince everyone that we're talking about boffs or selectable traits no matter how many times we specify that we're talking about captains and the non-selectable race trait up there in blue in the description.

    I've got a TSAD with some numbers. The only thing I could not yet test and would like to see is whether it is in fact giving a bonus that caps at +25%. +25% is the cloak ambush bonus of my destroyer. It's possible that's +15%? If so that's still a horrible deal for romulans, as they're already capped with their own ships.

    Don't mind the cruddiness of my equipment, I need a respec as badly as I need refined dilithium:

    Omega Torpedo: Base in-system 2137.1 kinetic + 1924.4 plasma
    Omega Torpedo: with ambush, no boffs: 2692.6 + 2418.1 plasma
    Omega with 1 subterfuge boff in ambush: 2692.6 + 2418.1 plasma
    Fleet ACCx1DMGx3 DBB: Base In-System at 125 power 1429.1
    With ambush, no boffs: 1790.3
    Ambush and boff: 1790.3

    Starship Stealth SKILL increases by exactly 50 points with the 200 stealth bonus boff on, which would suggest the ships themselves have standard 150 stealth counting as subterfuge. It's certainly unchanged by having a different captain for the same ships.

    So there's no +stealth while cloaked, there's no +damage while decloaking, and the +damage while decloaking component of subterfuge also does not function.
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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    breygorn wrote: »
    I do not think that the rommie race trait is working.

    Are you running any +Stealth BOFFs?

    Sub +150
    Infil +150
    Pirate +150

    They do not stack..the +Stealth part that is.

    If your Captain has +150 and a BOFF has +150, you only get a single +150.

    Keep in mind, the +150 Starship Stealth is equal to +75 Stealth Value.
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    pyrogxmk3pyrogxmk3 Member Posts: 206 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Again; Tests were done with boffs both on and off to check differences.
    Further testing showed the 150 on some ships did not actually come from the captain at all, or if it can it does not stack with what ships with innate cloak give.
    Species trait: Romulans are extremely talented at Subterfuge, making their use of Cloaking Devices unparalleled and their damage bonus from de-cloaking higher than that of other species. Additionally, Romulans' Vulcan heritage is reflected in their immense physical strength, making them powerful melee combatants.

    In Space: +Stealth while Cloaking, Bonus damage when exiting Cloak
    On Ground: Bonus Physical Damage, chance to knock down foes when using Melee attacks.

    Not Covert Operative, not "Two remans with subterfuge only give +150", not superior infiltrator, not Warp Theorist(I have in fact had it 'explained to me' that warp theorist doesn't affect stealth out of nowhere) or a mkXI phaser wide-beam pistol (I figure that must be next?)

    That thing, up there, in the quotes, that seems to trigger a random anomaly in nearly any reader's brain, sending it anywhere but where it's supposed to look as the answer. That's the one that's doing not-a-thing in space.
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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    The simplest test would have been the following.

    Remove any BOFFs. Remove any +Starship Stealth gear. Go to Status in normal (non sector) space. Look at Skills. Scroll down to where Starship Stealth is located. If you've put no points in it, but you're on a Rom - then you should see 150. If it is not displayed, then it is not working.

    It is not displayed. Rom Captain Subterfuge is not working for the +Stealth.

    Open up the Available Skills window (typically the P key), find a weapon and note the damage.

    1422.3 for example.

    Cloak. Wait a few seconds. Decloak and note the damage.

    for example.

    Divide the second number by the first number.

    1777.9 / 1422.3 = 1.2500175771637488574843563242635

    125%. 25% is the expected amount. It's +15% normally, Subterfuge provides an additional +10% bringing it to +25%.

    Damage is working fine.

    As for Starship Stealth Skill and Stealth Value...

    1 Starship Stealth Skill = 0.5 Stealth Value
    1 Auxiliary Power = 1 Stealth Value

    Base Stealth Value = 4925 @ 0 Aux. Warbirds receive +55 Stealth Value compared to other normal Cloakers (that amount appears regardless of Rom, Rem, Alien).

    4925
    +55 (Warbird) = 4980
    +28 (Aux) = 5008 (matches displayed stealth value)

    There is no +150/+75 appearing...just the normal and expected values for Sub/Pirate/Infil not being part of the equation.

    Add any +150 BOFFs, you get the +75...5083 displayed - a match.

    People have not likely noticed that the Rom Captain was not giving the +150/75 Stealth, because they likely have at least one Sub, Infil, or Pirate...
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    breygornbreygorn Member Posts: 189 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    My numbers from the original post were from no boffs/doffs/gear.
    I tried to make sure that nothing I had was affecting any numbers by any means. :}
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    breygorn wrote: »
    My numbers from the original post were from no boffs/doffs/gear.
    I tried to make sure that nothing I had was affecting any numbers by any means. :}

    It's no biggie, wasn't mentioned in the OP whether there were or weren't - so it warranted asking.
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    pyrogxmk3pyrogxmk3 Member Posts: 206 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Taking everything off and putting it back on is what had led us to believe a captain gives +150 stealth... Then we discovered that the captain was not the source of it but rather the ships themselves.

    It was already quite obvious that +25% was the base form of the romulan battle cloak, so the bonus damage from the captain is certainly not that. Ask anyone around New Romulus or at ESD however and guaranteed you'll get told that cloak gives +15% and romulan captains have subterfuge that adds +10% to that to make it 25.

    Or that your dilithium can't select Miracle Worker, but if it did that wouldn't stack with your boff's superior infiltrator.

    If anyone has a non-romulan captain with a Tal Shiar cloaking ship, if you could strip it naked for a minute and tell us if the base cloak's ambush damage is +15% or +25%, we'd get a final datapoint on the matter of whether it's capped or just nonexistent.
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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Simpler test...if you've got a spare slot:

    Create an Alien Rom. Skip the tutorial. Run around the Flotilla, speak/cancel the costume/ship customization, speak to D'Tan, return to your ship, and look at your Ambush bonus. +15%.

    Create a Rom Rom. Skip the tutorial. Run around the Flotilla, speak/cancel the costume/ship customization, speak to D'Tan, return to your ship, and look at your Ambush bonus. +25%.
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    breygornbreygorn Member Posts: 189 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    no worries Virusdancer, am glad you asked. :}

    Didn't try with an alien rom, although a rom rom and a rom reman both had the same +25%.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    breygorn wrote: »
    no worries Virusdancer, am glad you asked. :}

    Didn't try with an alien rom, although a rom rom and a rom reman both had the same +25%.

    Hrmm, that's a good point since you clarified the no BOFFs thing. The Reman shouldn't be getting the +10% to take it to +25% without a Sub BOFF.

    However, if I strip BOFFs from my guy Willard - he's just showing the +15%, not a +25%.
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    pyrogxmk3pyrogxmk3 Member Posts: 206 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    And on what ship is that?
    Either way, if you have a romulan captain and a 15% ambush, and it only goes up with boffs, then quite clearly the captain does not work.

    This would also confirm that +25% is as high as it goes...
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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    pyrogxmk3 wrote: »
    And on what ship is that?
    Either way, if you have a romulan captain and a 15% ambush, and it only goes up with boffs, then quite clearly the captain does not work.

    This would also confirm that +25% is as high as it goes...

    25% is as high as it goes.

    Standard Ambush is +15%.
    Having a single instance of Sub, whether from a Rom Captain or a Rom BOFF applies an additional +10% taking it to +25%.

    The Rom Alien/Rom Rom tests were done on brand new toons, so that would have been a T'liss.

    I did not have an instance of a Romulan Captain with +15%. Rom Alien yes. Reman, yes. Not actual Romulan though, the +10% is showing for the Rom.

    BTW, Willard's in a Fleet T'varo...the Reman only showing +15%.
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    pyrogxmk3pyrogxmk3 Member Posts: 206 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    The Enhanced Battle Cloak gives a 15% ambush bonus instead of the usual warbird one
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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    pyrogxmk3 wrote: »
    The Enhanced Battle Cloak gives a 15% ambush bonus instead of the usual warbird one

    +15% is the usual Warbird one. It's the standard Ambush bonus which is +15%.

    Willard (Reman)
    Fleet T'varo +15%
    Mirror Ha'nom +15%
    Ha'feh +15%

    Saraquael (KDF-aligned Alien)
    Hegh'ta +15%

    Tselina (KDF-aligned Alien)
    Kamarag +15%

    Etc, etc, etc.

    Standard Ambush bonus is +15%.

    Subterfuge, whether from a BOFF or from a Romulan Captain - provides an additional +10% to take that to +25%.
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    breygornbreygorn Member Posts: 189 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    hmm, this doesn't quite make sense to me some how...

    yesterday... no boffs/doffs/gear still showed +25% on my reman...
    today... it shows +15% ... exact same test...

    oh, and infiltrator trait for reman captain gives +150 stealth.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    pyrogxmk3pyrogxmk3 Member Posts: 206 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    The patch, maybe?
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    breygornbreygorn Member Posts: 189 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    perhaps patch, or bug, or just a glitch in display... which ever it was, seems to be right now.
    I'll re-visit the test in a few days, when I remember to. :}


    So, in answer to the original question that had brought this all up;
    Romulan Captain trait gives +150 to stealth skill and +10% ambush damage.

    (oh, and it does seem like 25% ambush is max.)

    k, I think that's right. :}

    edit :: Just wanted to thank Virusdancer as well :}
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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