Future of KDF lineup?

alsayyid

Getting the Mogh along with the fleet variant was quite nice. At the moment our battle cruiser lineup is quite solid it seems. Changes in our raider mechanics are on their way.

That leaves our raptor class. The question is are we going to see any love for our escort type lineup? We seem to be lacking somewhat. Now that we are copying fed ships, maybe we can get a copy of the Kumari or the Armitage.

Unknown

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timezarg

In all honesty, I'd rather there not be a lot of attention put to the raptors. It's a flawed concept to begin with, as the only thing that really separates Raptors from BoPs is some hullpoints and a shield mod increase. Everything else about the BoPs is superior at this point.

Maybe one new Raptor, if they can manage to avoid messing up the turn axis/player viewpoint/whatever the problem the Qin has. I'd rather they give us some friggin science ships first. Or sci-heavy destroyers (Letheans and Ferasans, anyone?). Maybe a full Orion carrier with a sci-heavy focus. More sci, in general, because we don't have enough options for that outside of the BoPs. . .which are rather limited in what they can really do.

rodentmaster

The recent anniversary ship, the Kamarag, is a sci-oriented destroyer... well, battlecruiser. But still! It has a LtCDR slot. Not terrible if you want to run GW or something on a sci toon, but retain a little firepower. The zstore borty can run LT and LtCDR as sci. I did that for a little while in my sci toon. Only problem is the ship is a slug, and even with all-beamarrays you'd only be firing half your beams on-target because it can't turn worth a damn.

variant37

To be honest, I've never really understood the point of the Raptor class. Is there any compelling reason to fly one? With Fed, up until the Avenger was introduced, if you wanted to run DHCs on a ship you needed to fly an escort. With KDF, I can throw an RCS console or two on my battlecruiser and I can run DHCs just fine. There's no need for me to take the escort penalty of weak shield and tin hull and run a Raptor when I can have my cake and eat it too with a battlecruiser.

icsairguns

raptors are obsolete for a Klingon warrior. fly a Bop or a battle cruiser we just don't need that class for end game. im not a fan of ships from the other kdf species but a couple couldn't hurt for people that do like them.

SCIENCE focus anybody?

timezarg

variant37 wrote: »

To be honest, I've never really understood the point of the Raptor class. Is there any compelling reason to fly one? With Fed, up until the Avenger was introduced, if you wanted to run DHCs on a ship you needed to fly an escort. With KDF, I can throw an RCS console or two on my battlecruiser and I can run DHCs just fine. There's no need for me to take the escort penalty of weak shield and tin hull and run a Raptor when I can have my cake and eat it too with a battlecruiser.

This as well. Especially with ships like the Tor'kaht and the Mogh, they're fully capable of utilizing DHCs in both PvE and PvP.

Raptors just never made a ton of sense. I would sometimes use 'em for PvE, but I never liked picking a Raptor over a BoP for PvP, especially back when all we had to pick from for Raptors was the free Qin (before the Fleet system was put in). Even now, with the Fleet Somraw being a pretty decent escort-level ship, people don't fly it all that much.

Sadly, Cryptic won't get rid of the line. It's been in the game since the start, and they've sold Fleet Somraws and Fleet Qins so there's money involved. I suppose if it were still just the Free Qin they could arguably discontinue the class, but it's too late now.

I'd love to see the Raptors removed and the BoPs buffed to 25-27k hull and escort-level shield and overall escort-level toughness, but with the lower hull. Given the low amount of ships we have to pick from, it would be a nice compromise. A tougher BoP would be able to serve as a better jack-of-all-trades, including for science support.

davidwford

If the consensus is that the Raptor-Escorts are obsolete, then what is needed is a complete overhaul of ALL of the escorts. My recommendation would be to make all T5 versions have 5 fore and 3 aft weapons. If anyone has a different idea to make Raptors relevant, I would very much like to hear your ideas.

alsayyid

patrickngo wrote: »

correct yourself there-because correction IS needed...

The Avenger is a correction/product improvement over KDF designs, the Mogh is a delayed entry but falls in the line of development as already established by the progression from K'Tinga to Vor'cha to Negh'var-an emphasis on turn rates and firepower forward going back evolutionarily, and the Avenger/Mogh incorporated a lot of minor fixes to known issues. (Unlike the Bort, which was dashing off into left field somewhere and did not fit KDF design philosophies in the slightest.)

i.e. KDF isn't copying federation designs, the Developers looted the KDF toybox for ideas then got a nasty kickback from the community with that Public Relations fiasco erupted after the Avenger's release.

What we're NOT going to see, predictably, is much development of the Raptor series as a concept, certainly not to put them on par with FedScorts or Warbirds.

Well then, I stand corrected.

In either case before the devs put time into another battlecruiser, which I doubt anyway, there are other options out there. More science ships come to mind. I do see where everyone is coming from, raptors are not seemingly too useful with the game how it is at the moment.

I suppose I am just wondering if there ever will be a ship worth using with a tac commander slot. Who knows maybe this raider class pass may open new doors.

terongray

This is something I was mulling over for the past few days. Really, analogs to the Vesta and Kumari are past due.

The prior notion already has good roots put down in the Qang idea thread. The vessel proposed is a good counterpart to the Vesta line, giving it sub-variants and flavorful consoles is all that is further needed. Cloak supplants the hanger in special flexibility.

As to the Kumari answer, that is one and the same as to the lack of a proper VA raptor. An Advanced Raptor family with the 5/2 weapons layout, some spruced up stats, and a similar set of offensive consoles.

As long as they are not a cut and paste, this would be a proper starting path to take to make good on the disparity between the two faction shipyards as of late. The issue with the Mogh was a case of carbon copying, asymmetrical balance keeps similar things still different.

davidwford

terongray wrote: »

As to the Kumari answer, that is one and the same as to the lack of a proper VA raptor. An Advanced Raptor family with the 5/2 weapons layout, some spruced up stats, and a similar set of offensive consoles.

What is with people and this need to do 5/2 or 5/1 weapons layouts? The Kumari is 5/3 and an escort. Yes BOPs have 4/2. If you were to argue a BOP with 5 fore weapons and a battle cloak, then I might buy into that. If you assume that a 5 fore weapons BOP or escort has to sacrifice an aft weapon slot for the extra fore weapon, then you are already making the ship weaker than the Kumari.

lianthelia

davidwford wrote: »

What is with people and this need to do 5/2 or 5/1 weapons layouts? The Kumari is 5/3 and an escort. Yes BOPs have 4/2. If you were to argue a BOP with 5 fore weapons and a battle cloak, then I might buy into that. If you assume that a 5 fore weapons BOP or escort has to sacrifice an aft weapon slot for the extra fore weapon, then you are already making the ship weaker than the Kumari.

The Kumari is 5/2...what is with people wanting 5 fore weapons? Except on beam boats fore weapons produce much more damage than aft...generally aft is just used for turrets or the KCB...you get a lot more punch out of your fore than your aft.

ga1en

Perhaps keep the current specs but add sci targeting abilities and move the boffs around so that the lt com slot is a sci? Should quiet the "we want sci" roar down to a murmur.

Sort of make the Raptors a combat oriented sci?

szerontzur

I suppose my opinion for bringing the KDF 'up to speed'..


Needed
-Kumari-like Bird of Prey/Raider (5/2 with flanking and a glass hull)
-Flight-Deck Raptor (An agile/evasive counterpart to the Armitage and Ar'Kif)

Wishlist
-Super-Neghvar battleCRUISER (An engineer heavy super-tank successor to the aging Neghvar and Bortasqu)
-Gorn Science-Minelayer (Rather than copy the Vesta, let's get the KDF a nice new science ship that matches the Gorn thematic of deployable warfare.)
-Orion FDC Dreadnought (Because who doesn't want a Warbarge for their Orion? - Possible alternative for the super-tank now that the "Mogh'var" was made into a quasi-destroyer.)

greendragon527

Sounds crazy but what about an all 6 fore weapon BOP? They have the turn and cloak to make it work, but of course if you do managed to get caught with your butt hanging out you're royally screwed. High risk high reward.

davidwford

greendragon527 wrote: »

Sounds crazy but what about an all 6 fore weapon BOP? They have the turn and cloak to make it work, but of course if you do managed to get caught with your butt hanging out you're royally screwed. High risk high reward.

And that would make the most sense with the B'Rel or other small BOP.

I stand corrected on the Kumari. I have not flown it since shortly after I bought it. Did not feel like it suited my play style.

bitemepwe

terongray wrote: »

This is something I was mulling over for the past few days. Really, analogs to the Vesta and Kumari are past due.

The prior notion already has good roots put down in the Qang idea thread. The vessel proposed is a good counterpart to the Vesta line, giving it sub-variants and flavorful consoles is all that is further needed. Cloak supplants the hanger in special flexibility.

As to the Kumari answer, that is one and the same as to the lack of a proper VA raptor. An Advanced Raptor family with the 5/2 weapons layout, some spruced up stats, and a similar set of offensive consoles.

As long as they are not a cut and paste, this would be a proper starting path to take to make good on the disparity between the two faction shipyards as of late. The issue with the Mogh was a case of carbon copying, asymmetrical balance keeps similar things still different.

I agree on both the Qang and raptor ideas.

tancrediiv

terongray wrote: »

This is something I was mulling over for the past few days. Really, analogs to the Vesta and Kumari are past due.

The prior notion already has good roots put down in the Qang idea thread. The vessel proposed is a good counterpart to the Vesta line, giving it sub-variants and flavorful consoles is all that is further needed. Cloak supplants the hanger in special flexibility.

As to the Kumari answer, that is one and the same as to the lack of a proper VA raptor. An Advanced Raptor family with the 5/2 weapons layout, some spruced up stats, and a similar set of offensive consoles.

As long as they are not a cut and paste, this would be a proper starting path to take to make good on the disparity between the two faction shipyards as of late. The issue with the Mogh was a case of carbon copying, asymmetrical balance keeps similar things still different.

I agree with the above. The Qang class science battle cruiser is needed. A good VA Raptor is also needed.