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Suggested: Advanced Fleet K'Tinga Retrofit
rodentmaster
Member Posts: 1 Arc User
Here is the Fleet K'tinga Retrofit, for those that need a reminder:
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Fleet_K%27t%27inga_Battle_Cruiser_Retrofit
We need either to update this or to get a better version. It's the weakest and worst battlecruiser in the KDF (counting the non-retro version as part of this, it is weaker even still!). It isn't worthy of its battlecruiser designation nor its role in the KDF fleet as a frontline FLEET level ship.
We need an "Advanced" version of it. Or perhaps call it "Elite Fleet K'Tinga Retrofit" if "Fleet Advanced K'Tinga Retrofit" doesn't work -- though Advanced worked for the feds on FACHR.
I will simply list the changes. Assume all else is the same as Fleet K'Tinga Retro.
What it needs:
hull: 36,500 (up from 34,450)
Bridge Officers:
CMDR ENG (its a cruiser, it must have this)
LT SCI
LT TAC
LtCMDR UNIVERSAL (was ENG)
ENS UNIVERSAL (was TAC)
Naturally, since it has no Z-store equivelant, it would cost 4 more fleet modules. A hefty price, but a minor change so the effort cryptic expends will be minimal compared to the returns they would get.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Fleet_K%27t%27inga_Battle_Cruiser_Retrofit
We need either to update this or to get a better version. It's the weakest and worst battlecruiser in the KDF (counting the non-retro version as part of this, it is weaker even still!). It isn't worthy of its battlecruiser designation nor its role in the KDF fleet as a frontline FLEET level ship.
We need an "Advanced" version of it. Or perhaps call it "Elite Fleet K'Tinga Retrofit" if "Fleet Advanced K'Tinga Retrofit" doesn't work -- though Advanced worked for the feds on FACHR.
I will simply list the changes. Assume all else is the same as Fleet K'Tinga Retro.
What it needs:
hull: 36,500 (up from 34,450)
Bridge Officers:
CMDR ENG (its a cruiser, it must have this)
LT SCI
LT TAC
LtCMDR UNIVERSAL (was ENG)
ENS UNIVERSAL (was TAC)
Naturally, since it has no Z-store equivelant, it would cost 4 more fleet modules. A hefty price, but a minor change so the effort cryptic expends will be minimal compared to the returns they would get.
Post edited by rodentmaster on
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Comments
Despite there being absolutely no evidence anywhere in canon that the K'tinga ever had a hanger?
Some more hull and some boff flexibility would do it for me. I spent money on fleet modules for the one I have. I'd do it again for an advanced version. I don't think I'll spend any on the Mogh. I already bought the fed avenger. Same ship. I shouldn't have to pay twice. Either make it cross faction and identical or don't do it that way, Cryptic! I'm not stupid and not paying you twice!
The thing is... It has a rather large hangar deck on the upper back main hull. That's what that boxy bump is. There's logically a way it could run 1 wing of shuttle-type pets (no frigates, no BoPs, etc).
That's why I have mixed feelings. It's possible, it's logical, but it's not really fitting with the ship I know and love.
Huh, so it is...I always assumed that section of the ship was main engineering.
And let's be clear on something, there's a difference between a shuttlebay, which every starship has, and a hanger, which can handle a variety of different craft including fighters and frigates.
It's safe to assume the K'tinga's "hanger" is a shuttlebay, and this is a slippery slope. If the K'tinga were able to launch shuttle-type pets, shouldn't all starships with a shuttlebay (ie. every starship in the game) have that same power?
Then again I'd rather see improvements to the basic ship, rather than a new flight deck cruiser variant.
Both of them require engi-centric playstyle, such as 2x AtB with EPtW3, DEM3, and AtS2 or RSP2. You pretty much need to want that kind of seating, otherwise it will be awful. On the other hand, 11 turn-rate and DHCs, if you cant make engi-heavy work with that its not possible
With the amount of heals you can put on this ship, the HPs are not a factor anyway.
I'm running the ship on a Tac captain and aside from magic oneshotting Elite Tac cubes, it just won't die. And with Attack Pattern Alpha on a baseturn of 11 it maneuvers incredibly well.
Buffing it would be over the top and putting fighters in a ship small enough to fit into the Vo'Quv's hangar...
http://www.suricatafx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/klingonships181.png
...no comment.
2) NOR is it the "most agile" in the game -- 1 dps doesn't make a difference. It's 0.5dps above the Kamarag. There are fed escorts and kdf raptors with MORE hull than this ship which have 50% more turn rate than it. You're making a nonsense argument, trying to justify it. It has a battlecruiser turn rate because it is a battlecruiser. What it does NOT have is a battlecruiser's hull rating. It has a light escort's hull rating, which is a slap in the face.
3) The boff layout does not mean it was designed to be the counterpart for the Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit. This same boff setup can be found in the Vorcha, which this is an advanced version of. The same boff setup can also be found in the fed Assault Cruiser, the fed Dreadnought, and other ships as well. It's a low-level basic ENG-heavy cruiser setup.
4) the ship (sadly) is far better as a beam boat because there's almost no TAC-oriented boff setup. That's fine, you can run beams on it no sweat. However, some flexibility would be nice for such an expensive and FLEET-level ship. It is the ONLY battlecruiser with "Fleet" in the name that has NO universal boff.
This ship gets slammed in all categories:
- worst battlecruiser hull (by a long shot)
- worst FLEET battlecruiser boff setup (no universal AT ALL)
- of the 10 LtGeneral+ ranked battlecruisers KDF have available the ONLY 2 that have no universal boff slot are the K'Tinga retro and the Fleet K'Tinga retro
- tied with Fleet Negh'var for worst tactical boff setup options in the entire battlecruiser list.
It's simply a slap in the face to the battlecruiser. Keep in mind this ship cost 4 fleet modules. Keep in mind this is a contemporary brother of the Tork and the Mogh and the Bortas, yet is given the stats of a lvl30 free vor'cha (non-retrofit, even!).
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/8320/01y0.jpg
no.
2.) How is a turnrate of 11 not the most agile cruiser in the game?
i wrote "cruiser", not ship. Reading comprehension.
Yes there is a Raptor with more hull and abviously they have more turnrate, but since you need to be informed of the obvious: THEY HAVE MUCH LESS SHIELDING.
It's the Raptors' thing: the worst shields in the game for a bit more hull than Fed escorts.
1.1 vs 0.92 at fleet level that translates out to 83.6% of the shields a battlecruiser has.
Or did you totally forget about that?
Just like science ships have lower hulls but more shields. YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS BY NOW.
The Fleet Somraw has the same hull as the Fleet K't'inga at the above 0.92 shield mod.
And now to the one you're so very much complaining about, the Fleet Qin.
It has 36,300 base hull vs the K't'inga's 34,450. That translates out to 5.37% more hull.
5.37% are you kidding me? That's what your "slap in the face" translates out to?
5.37%? Really?
Beyond that your "Slap in the face HULK SMASH!" post isn't worth bothering with.
Do you seriously think "battlecruiser" must translate out to "must be more boomboom than Fed Assault Cruiser" ?
Eng 1: EPtW 1, Aux2Batt 1, RSP 2, DEM 3
Eng 2: EPtS 1, Aux2Batt 1, Warp Plasma 1
Tac 1: FAW 1, APB 1 (or TS 1/CSV 1, or whatever else you fancy)
Tac 2: TT 1
Sci: Whatever
It's not super-nimble (it's "only" the most agile battlecruiser in the game), but should be capable of out-maneuvering the opponent enough to trap them in warp plasma. The rest is a more-or-less standard Aux2FAWSpam build, but it's agile enough to switch that out for a torpedo/DHC mix with torpedo spread and scatter volley instead.
Forget it. It's essentially the same I saw in a recent "Avenger needs turnrate 12+ and Commander Universal" thread: people are no longer interested in creating a build around a ship, they want the ships altered to fit their build because when their build doesn't work on a ship, it's the ship's fault.
For your screenshot: try parking them literally side by side, nacelles almost touching. Your image could have tons of size variation based on depth of the dogpile there. I have better screenshots on my own computer that show them side by side with very little difference in size.
Further, battlecruisers are NOT cruisers. They are battelcruisers. You are harping that it's "the MOST nimble cruiser! omgz!!!" but it has 1 freaking dps more than 99% of all other battlecruisers in the game. That is not a valid argument. It's also no justification for the treatment it has received in this game. It also shows your fed-only bias that you can't comprehend the difference. Do you even play much KDF?
You speak as if you've never played this ship before, also. Hitpoints make a massive difference. Especially with 90% of damage bypassing shields these days. You can't tank with low HP. ENG-oriented battlecruisers can only heal so much and so fast, and they rely on hull to absorb damage to out-last the damage coming their way. You can't do that with no hull to absorb the damage. Note that this also applies to cruisers, though they are 2 different ship types, entirely. Let's put it in fed terms you might relate to: What if the Fleet Support Cruiser only had 30k hull instead of 43k+? Precisely. What if the FACHR were only given 33k instead of 42.9k? Precisely.
You can't tank without hull points. Saying otherwise shows ignorance.
Every ship in this game with a CMDR and LtCMDR as ENG has been heavily tank-oriented. Look down the list. EVERY one, from lvl 40 free ships, to mirror ships, all the way up to the highest fleet ships, even the LOWEST of the LOW is many thousands of hull hitpoints above the K'tinga retro. Even the lowest lvl40 ship with those boffs is still way more than the lvl 50 Fleet K'tinga. That statement applies to both fed cruisers and KDF battlecruisers. Not ONE is intentionally held back as badly as the K'Tingas.
It is an unjustified handicap.
As to the boff setup itself, like I said it's conducive for beams, and you can get SOME milage from it, but it really is one of the least desired setups for a battlecruiser. Let alone a battlecruiser that cost 4 fleet modules and has "FLEET" and "RETROFIT" in the name. Do you realize that you would do better in a free lvl40 Vor'cha retrofit than you would in the very costly Fleet K'Tinga Retro? And, while you CAN run an A2Bat build on this, you can also do the same on the mogh, on the tork, on the bortas, the kamarag... oh wait, EVERY KDF battlecruiser can currently run an A2Bat setup, and yet they still have the option of a universal boff where the K'tingas do not.
And misterde3, don't tell me about "building to the ship" -- I know very well how to do that. I do that. It's just a necessity of using any ship in the game. The reason I am using the K'Tinga is love of the ship, love of the shape, love of the history. Meanwhile fed Fleet level retrofits enjoy all the modern stats of a Tier5 ship and retain their retro exterior while getting the best capabilities and options, the K'tinga is once again maligned and kept in the closet under the stairs. The only thing it has going is the retro look. It enjoy no other benefits of being a fleet shipyard ship.
The problem is really the core of the game: DPS over everything.
This is where the K'T'Inga and every ENG heavy ship starts falling back in terms of competitiveness.
Anyways, I just want to emphasize that the K'T'Inga does not need to become another TAC Cruiser, another Carrier / Flight Deck Cruiser. No, no, no to all that.
It's not about the age of the ship.
They show that the Mogh is of similar size to the Vor'cha (bulkier and ever-so-slightly longer, but similar size). K't'inga (and also the K'tanco, which I don't have a comparison shot of, but one is visible in the K't'inga comparisons) is absolutely tiny in comparison. It's +10% more turn rate than any other T5 battlecruiser (double-checking, the K'Tanco, which is T2 only, does have a higher turn), and the Galor is the only "normal" cruiser with 10 base turn rate. Battle or not, the (Fleet) K't'inga Retrofit is the most agile T5 cruiser-type in the game. Not so different that they can't be compared directly (in fact, you do it yourself, in order to make your point). Cruisers tend to have more hull, less turn, can't cloak or use dual cannons, but can use Attract Fire.
Their bridge layouts are basically identical (Kamarag and Ambassador, Negh'var and Galaxy Retrofit, standard Sovereign and Vor'cha Retrofit, Bortasqu' and Odyssey, and the Mogh and Avenger have very similar layouts to the Regent), the console layouts are similar (Sovereign/Vor'cha-R, Imperial/Fleet Mogh/Tor'kaht, and Fleet Kamarag/Fleet Ambassador are all identical), and the weapon layouts are the same 4/4 at Tier 5 (except the Avenger and Mogh, which have 5 fore weapons and 3 aft).
Iirc, it was confirmed by the staff behind enterprise that the k'tinga appearance in enterprise shouldn't have happened. The ship that should have appeared didn't as they simply ran out of time and had to put in something. The closest thing they had to hand (that could be dropped in) was the k'tinga.
I think that came from Doug Drexler, though I'm working from memory here.
An another note, feel lucky that you even GET that ship at a Fleet level. Thos of us that would like to have a Fleet refit Constitution or Enterprise class cruiser get told no all the time. And then get told to STFU by half the forum members on top of that. Now THAT'S a slap in the face, compared to your complaint.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Yes you can, its damage mitigation and shield mod that counts, not hull. I assume you havnt tried killing the miriad of science vessel healer builds in pvp ? They mostly use resilient fleet shields that take only half the bleedthrough other shields do.
Also my atb particle gen based ewp ktinga can tank just fine, the low HP only starts to matter when I get subnuked the 2nd time in a row. If its just 1v1 a ktinga is near impossible to kill, even vs good JHAS players.
Yes, I ignored that as well, hence I said TOS :P. Read about that on ex-astris scientia
You are, of course, correct; the ship which was meant to appear, designed and built, was the incredibly similar D-4 cruiser, which appears in STO as the Koro't'inga refit. The terminology is significant, IMO, in that it places this as an older model than the D-5 used by notable Klingons such as Duras an Krell.
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/klingon-battlecruiser.htm
So what - the K't'inga, or something *very* like it at least, was an established design before humans had warp 5. Even if you go to the unused production designs.
I wondered the same, but dps in this sentence means "degrees per second" not "damage per second".
Thank you. Appearently rodentmaster's definition of "you've never played this ship before" is to actually get along with it and to know what you're doing.
Okay, first off since I expect you to make the claim the ships were not parked side by side I made a second screenshot to show that they actually were:
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/494/u300.jpg
unless you want to now claim I intentionally moved the ship in the time between the first and second shot.:rolleyes:
Second I've played KDF so long that most of my chars still have the MkX Covariant Cap 3x shield one could only get with marks of honor in their bank, if that means anything to you.
So I've played long enough to know one important thing you appearantly missed: hitpoints are less relevant than resistances and heals. And the K't'inga has as much of that as any onther Engineering-heavy ship.
And as far as your supposed anti-K't'inga bias goes, have a look at some other Fleet ships and you'll find lots without universals on both the Fed and KDF side...unless you've come up with the absurd definition that a KDF battlecruiser must have at least one uni slot to be viable.
Of course it's easy to come up with your own definition and then complain the rest of the universe doesn't follow it. This makes it pretty easy to be angry about stuff all the time.
And for the record: I would have a liked a totally different ship for the Fleet K't'inga, I'd have preferred a ship with one less aft weapon slot, more maneuverability (12 or 13) and an LtC Tac. I was bummed when I first saw the BO layout as it is now. But even though it's not what I would have wanted it's an incredibly solid ship that's just great as it is. Not being the ship that I want and being a bad ship are unrelated matters. It's still easily my preferred battlecruiser and I also have the Flee Kamarag and the Fleet Mogh on other chars.
this ship being more weaker defensively than other Battlecruisers needed to use APO because without it when it gets trap like for an example Warp Plasma, it will not be able to escape and will be destroyed.
You're forgetting weapons-booster builds. That thing could handle dual aux2batt no problem. Take the engi slots and invest in self-buffs.
People in this game always gravitate to the glass cannons and forget the other build archetypes. Slow engi/tac ships are generally best handled as mighty glaciers. Don't complain about the ship, play to the ship's strengths. Just because something can mount dual cannons doesn't mean it should (the Bort and Galaxy-X are evidence enough of that). If you can't adjust, get a different ship that you can fly better.
I think people get confused about its age because it looks nearly identical to the D-7.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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