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Qang (Chancellor class)
misterde3
Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
The Qang (Chancellor) class appears in at least half a dozen novels published by Pocket Books.
One member of its class, the IKS Gorkon, is also mentioned in "The Path to 2409".
It shares these two characteristics with the Luna class.
So it makes sense to bring the Qang class to STO as a playable ship.
Schematics as presented in "The Brave and the Bold" book 2:
http://imageshack.us/a/img14/7733/qangschem.jpg
As shown on the cover of "A Good Day to Die":
http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130916005852/startrek/images/5/5e/Gorkon.JPG
On the outside it is essentially a slightly enlarged Vor'cha class and as much related
to this class of ship as the Nebula is related to the Galaxy for example.
One important change from the Vor'cha is that the amount of disruptors this ship carries is
reduced, only 12 compared to the 18 listed for the Vor'cha in every soft-canon source available.
But since they are mounted on turret-like structures, they have a greater firing arc. Each individual disruptor is covering 90 degrees as explained in "The Brave and the Bold" book 2.
They were built for the Dominion War but could not be completed until the end of that
conflict. And while they didn't look much different from ships that had come before,
what was "under the hood" has noteworthy.
-the most advanced sensor array available
-a really modern sickbay
-advanced ECM technology independent of the cloaking device
-holodecks for extensive combat practice and simuations
The sickbay part might sound ridicilous, but Martok was so impressed with what he
saw when stationed on DS9 that he decided that a drasic increase in medical
standards would do the Defense Force some good.
After the Dominion War the Empire began to rebuild and it was decided to expand into
new and unexplored sectors of space. So the 12 existing Chancellor class ships
were sent in the first novel of the "IKS Gorkon" series on an open-ended mission
of exploration. They mapped stars and nebulae and a lot of it bored the crew to no end.
However one aspect of Klingon exploration that differs drastically from the way Starfleet
operates is first contact. These ships were sent to conquer new worlds in the name of the
Empire so they either tried to occupy a new planet themselves or called in a fleet on
standby and supported its efforts.
You might wonder why I'm telling you all of this.
Well it explains what this ship is designed to do and what it is capable of.
The Chancellor class is as much a ship of scientific exploration as well as a capable
combat ship. And while it is noted in the books that it does even remotely come close to
handling like a Bird of Prey it is indeed able to face a Vor'cha on even terms.
Of course that would be the Vor'cha right at the end of the Dominion War, so that would
be the one at STO's captain level.
So here are my proposed stats:
Qang Expedion Ship
Rank: Lt.G
Tier: 5
Type: Science ship
Hull: 30,000
Shield Modifier: 1.3
Crew 2,000
Weapons: 3/3 can equip cannons
Bridge Officers:
Tactical: Lieutenant Commander
Engineering: Lieutenant
Science: Commander, Ensign
Universal: Lieutenant
Consoles:
Tactical: 3
Engieneering: 2
Science: 4
Turn Rate: 10
Impulse Modifier: 0.15
Inertia Rating: 20
Bonus Power:
+5 weapons power
+10 auxiliary power
Abilities:
Cloak
Subsystem Targeting
Sensor Analysis
Special Weapon: Mk XI Wide-Angle Dual Cannons (90 instead of 45 deg)
An homage to the 90 degree weapons the Qang has.
The Fleet Version gains the usual upgrades as well as one additional Engineeering console.
NOTE: In the books the ship has a total crew of 2,725 including the ground troops.
This has been reduced due to reasons of sanity.
Comments?
Notes?
Flames?
Interest in seeing this ingame?
One member of its class, the IKS Gorkon, is also mentioned in "The Path to 2409".
It shares these two characteristics with the Luna class.
So it makes sense to bring the Qang class to STO as a playable ship.
Schematics as presented in "The Brave and the Bold" book 2:
http://imageshack.us/a/img14/7733/qangschem.jpg
As shown on the cover of "A Good Day to Die":
http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130916005852/startrek/images/5/5e/Gorkon.JPG
On the outside it is essentially a slightly enlarged Vor'cha class and as much related
to this class of ship as the Nebula is related to the Galaxy for example.
One important change from the Vor'cha is that the amount of disruptors this ship carries is
reduced, only 12 compared to the 18 listed for the Vor'cha in every soft-canon source available.
But since they are mounted on turret-like structures, they have a greater firing arc. Each individual disruptor is covering 90 degrees as explained in "The Brave and the Bold" book 2.
They were built for the Dominion War but could not be completed until the end of that
conflict. And while they didn't look much different from ships that had come before,
what was "under the hood" has noteworthy.
-the most advanced sensor array available
-a really modern sickbay
-advanced ECM technology independent of the cloaking device
-holodecks for extensive combat practice and simuations
The sickbay part might sound ridicilous, but Martok was so impressed with what he
saw when stationed on DS9 that he decided that a drasic increase in medical
standards would do the Defense Force some good.
After the Dominion War the Empire began to rebuild and it was decided to expand into
new and unexplored sectors of space. So the 12 existing Chancellor class ships
were sent in the first novel of the "IKS Gorkon" series on an open-ended mission
of exploration. They mapped stars and nebulae and a lot of it bored the crew to no end.
However one aspect of Klingon exploration that differs drastically from the way Starfleet
operates is first contact. These ships were sent to conquer new worlds in the name of the
Empire so they either tried to occupy a new planet themselves or called in a fleet on
standby and supported its efforts.
You might wonder why I'm telling you all of this.
Well it explains what this ship is designed to do and what it is capable of.
The Chancellor class is as much a ship of scientific exploration as well as a capable
combat ship. And while it is noted in the books that it does even remotely come close to
handling like a Bird of Prey it is indeed able to face a Vor'cha on even terms.
Of course that would be the Vor'cha right at the end of the Dominion War, so that would
be the one at STO's captain level.
So here are my proposed stats:
Qang Expedion Ship
Rank: Lt.G
Tier: 5
Type: Science ship
Hull: 30,000
Shield Modifier: 1.3
Crew 2,000
Weapons: 3/3 can equip cannons
Bridge Officers:
Tactical: Lieutenant Commander
Engineering: Lieutenant
Science: Commander, Ensign
Universal: Lieutenant
Consoles:
Tactical: 3
Engieneering: 2
Science: 4
Turn Rate: 10
Impulse Modifier: 0.15
Inertia Rating: 20
Bonus Power:
+5 weapons power
+10 auxiliary power
Abilities:
Cloak
Subsystem Targeting
Sensor Analysis
Special Weapon: Mk XI Wide-Angle Dual Cannons (90 instead of 45 deg)
An homage to the 90 degree weapons the Qang has.
The Fleet Version gains the usual upgrades as well as one additional Engineeering console.
NOTE: In the books the ship has a total crew of 2,725 including the ground troops.
This has been reduced due to reasons of sanity.
Comments?
Notes?
Flames?
Interest in seeing this ingame?
Post edited by misterde3 on
0
Comments
Seems the very model of a true KDF sci ship. I'd have swapped the Ens Sci/Uni Lt, but I'm basing that on nothing more than gut.
I would totally buy this.
Now it just needs to become reality...
(holds breath)
I'm sure your DPS is great, but as Kahless said, "a petaQ with high system mastery is still a petaQ." (Well, he should have said it...!)
From a legal point of view it's the same as the Luna, which is what I tried to explain above.
It's from Pocket books like the Luna (Titan) which we know Cryptic has the rights to and on top of that it's even mentioned by Cryptic in its own lore. If they didn't have the rights for it they wouldn't even be allowed to do that.;)
As far as shields and hull for cloak is concerned: have a look at the Ha'nom.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Ha%27nom_Guardian_Warbird
It has the same turnrate, hull and shields as the ship I proposed...and on top of that a battlecloak.:) So I don't think it's OPed in any way.
True, but Rom ships in general are always better, and balancing against them just adds more creep. I think more in terms of balancing against like the Nebula-R or the D'kyr.
Okay, then let's have a look.
DSSV: turnrate 11 hull 28,5000
Qang and D'Kyr: tunrate 10 hull 30,000 (+1,500)
Nebula: turnrate 9 hull 31,5000 (+1,500)
shield mod is the same on all 3 (4) ships.
so it's still just another 1,500 for one point of turnrate trade just like with the Federation counterparts.
3+4+2=9 you can't even count.:rolleyes:
Right, then you add cannons and cloaking and a better boff layout, ought to lose something somewhere. And that better-hull-lesser-shields is a pretty common thing on a lot of KDF ships like the Raptors or the Bortasqu or Vo'quv, seems to be a theme. Like I said, I'm not against it at all, I'd have a fleet one on launch day, just a tweaking.
R.I.P
Cheers
http://sto.gamepedia.com/File:Klingon_Battle_Cruiser_(Vor%27cha).png
Only difference is the nacelles.
I actually like Delta Rising.
Nice argument, except the Federation has been given some KDF stuff without the KDF getting anything in return. So it doesn't work. Now, if the Federation hadn't been given carriers AND hybrid carriers (which are more useful than the KDF hybrid carriers, the Flight-Deck Cruisers) with NO recompense to the KDF and hadn't been given a solid toehold in the battlecruiser area via the Avenger (which is better than any KDF battlecruiser except the Mogh, and ya'll whined about the Mogh), you might have an argument.
What about the Vesta? That's got 1 more tac console slot, a unique console, and a hangar over this. For slightly less hull, but way more maneuverability. Seems the OP has done a decent job balancing to me, especially if those wide angle cannons are NOT auxiliary powered, meaning that one would still have to play the energy balancing game.
Sorry, had to get some sleep andget some RL stuff done, didn't bail on our discussion.
I'll try to incorporate your concerns as much as I can in my post further below. By god I'm pretty sure I'll fail at some point...
Okay, if you want to be fair on this so will I.
Since I don't fly carriers that much (never cared for them) I'd have to go by stats only on the Atrox. So in what way is it inferior? Because from where I'm sitting the loss of 1,500 hull for an increase from 1.0 to 1.0 shield mod is perferctly fine.
The differences in BO layout are not that substantial either.
Let's have a look at the "free" Ha'nom compared to the Qang as I propose it:
Hull: same (30,000)
Shields: same (1.3)
Turnrate: same (10)
Consoles: same (T3 E2 S4)
Weapons: same (3/3+ abilit to mount cannons)
crew: not sure it matters really
impulse mod: same (0.15)
inertia: Ha'nom wins (40 vs 20)
Bonus power: same (both +15 overall)
Abilities: Ha'nom wins due to battlecloak
So in what way may the Qang be superior? Well in theory the BO layout.
However when you compare the BO layout of the Asssault Cruiser with that of the Assault Cruiser refit you'll see that it's a similar BO switch as compared to Qang vs Ha'nom. And yet what does the Assault Cruiser Refit "lose" over the non-refit version? Nothing I can see.
So the defining characteristic for the hull value is turnrate and for the shield mod it's the class. That's it.
Based on Cryptic's weird logic the Assault Cruiser Refit might be a bit "better" since it's a VA and not an RA ship (same as the "better" layout of the Nebual compared to the RA ships) but that is also covered due to the fact that the Qang is also a Level 50 ship.
At least that's how I understood Geko's explanation about why the D'kyr was not so great compared to other ships like the Nebula: she's only RA and not VA.
With regards to a comment about the singularity core I assume f2pdrakron will at this point bring I'd like to point you to the Vet Destroyers the Klingons and Romulans have. They are identical except for the warpcore so appearently Cryptic considers a singularity and a matter/antimatter core to be balanced equivalents. I alson don't recall any threads about how one or the other is either over- or underpowered so appearently the community agrees.
For the record: I don't entirely understand how Cryptic "balances" its stuff.
Never have and probably never will.
In some cases like the Raptors vs Fed Escorts or the Vo'Quv vs. Atrox it's less shields for more hull. In other cases it's more turn, more hull and same shields like the Negh'Var vs Galaxy...one that totally eludes me. In other cases it's less shields period like the Fleet Varanus vs the Fleet Deep Space Science Vessel.
So Cryptic's approach to ships and faction-specific design is at best all over the place and at worst...broken.
I come from a starship combat tabletop background and not from an MMO background.
So I assume I'm missing something somewhere but personally I'd have balanced a lot of stuff differently. So this ship is balanced based on the pattern Cryptic does its stuff whether I always agree with their approach or not.
They don't consider the addition of cannons or a cloak a need to reduce shilds or hull when we compare the RA Ha'nom to the RA D'kyr. Or the addition of a cloak to the Mogh compared to the Avenger. Personally I would.
So please when you criticise the Qang, do the same and look at the way Cryptic balances ships and not the way your or I would prefer they'd do it.
I do honestly hope that the Devs' comments about a need for a balance pass on existing ships is more than a smoke screen. A few months ago I'd have snorted at the idea Cryptic is actually doing something in that direction but thanks to the addition of comm arrays it seems they're actually doing something in that regard. And to be blunt: the Qang is at best as powerful as recent existing ships and that the same slightly more than less recent ones. So there are two options left to someone like me to do things:
1.) Balance it compared to older ships which will hopefully get a well-deserved balance pass at which point the ship will be altered again to fit them.
2.) Design it to competitive (without being outrigh "better") based on recent ships like the ones from LoR so it doesn't need to be rebalanced.
The Cover image is that of a Vorcha. If you look at the schematics the head's width is the same as the top of the neck where it connects to. The Image has the neck narrower than the head so it's a Vorcha.
Maybe I should've gone into detail regarding the discrepancy in the opening post, but yes you're right the ship on the cover looks different from the one in the schematics.
Strangely enough though the ship on the cover is not actually a Vor'cha either.
The Vor'cha does not have a curved head section and has a large triangular structure on the rear section missing on the cover image. I'm not sure what went wrong there either.
*EDIT: however a more "cuvey look" than the "blocky look" on the schematics would probably make it more appealing.*
I think the Federation complaint is really about the fact that they're paying 2500 zen for a ship that is more or less equivalent to the free lvl 40 Vo'Quv, not because the ship itself is inferior. But then again, that would require them to understand the concept of 'balance'. They pay extra in order to have access to what's supposed to be a KDF concept, something the KDF is supposed to be stronger in. I believe that was the thinking at the time, anyways. The Atrox was the first example of Cryptic essentially taking something from the KDF and giving the Feds access to it for a higher price. Happened before the 'giving our best universal consoles away' spree, I think.
You mean like the Varanus costs 2,000 Zen and is no better (rather worse) than its free Federation counterpart?
Pretty much. And I'd expect any new science ships given to the KDF to have the same treatment. That's how it should be done.
The issue is when you start thinking about the Avenger and what it represents. It costs the same as other end-game ships that the KDF has, and is better than all of 'em except one (and that one is the Mogh). That's hardly a fair trade-off to compensate for the fact that the Federation isn't supposed to have a bloody battlecruiser, and is a definite encroachment upon a KDF exclusive. . .I don't like the kind of trend that could start.
Well the thing is that it's already there.
I don't consider the Atrox worse off than the Vo'quv nor is the Avenger worse off than the Klingon BCs. The thing is: should this trend only be in one direction: Federation gets all their shinies and the KDF shinies (ATM without the Raiders) while the KDF gets....what exactly.
The biggest hole in their lineup is a science-heavy ship that doesn't turn like an outpost and doesn't have such massive shield penalties as the Varanus.
The Varanus is slightly worse than the Deep Space Science vessel by .1 in shield modifier.
On a fleet level the Varanus is .11 less shield with a 3/3/4 console setup versus a DSSV of1.43 shield mod with a 2/3/5 console set up.
The VoQ I never considered a true science vessel since it has low turn, is a carrier, has no sensor analysis and only a 1 shield mod.
I think the KDF needs a true klingon science vessel and it should be restricted to a single cstore choice and a single fleet choice.
I think Misterdees is a good idea and I would pay money for it for my sci toon.
R.I.P