Okay, what's the deal with KHG engine power bonus?

rodentmaster

Seriously, what's the deal here? I thought you were supposed to get all 3 on battlecruisers. Yesterday I happened to look when I was in local space (not sector) and it was giving me +1.5 in one power bank and +0.75 in another, and nothing else.

What gives?

It's very clear what it should be doing. It does not do it. Searching the forums and all of google yields no resolution, no comments, NOBODY bringing this up anywhere.

Honestly it's the best feature of this engine. The power bonus in 3 banks. Without it, what makes me want this engine on my ship?

This needs to be addressed.

bitemepwe

I thought the bonuses worked like effeciency and where lesser or greater as per existing power levels?

majortiraomega

rodentmaster wrote: »

Seriously, what's the deal here? I thought you were supposed to get all 3 on battlecruisers. Yesterday I happened to look when I was in local space (not sector) and it was giving me +1.5 in one power bank and +0.75 in another, and nothing else.

What gives?

It's very clear what it should be doing. It does not do it. Searching the forums and all of google yields no resolution, no comments, NOBODY bringing this up anywhere.

Honestly it's the best feature of this engine. The power bonus in 3 banks. Without it, what makes me want this engine on my ship?

This needs to be addressed.

The +power bonus on the KHG impulse engines is an efficiency bonus. You will only receive the full +3.8 power when a subsystem is set to 15 base power. Also, your ship subsystem doesn't receive the bonus at all when set above 50 base power. This effect is identical to all other efficient impulse engines, which is why nobody has ever brought it up on the forums. The KHG engines are good for two reason. One, the two piece and three piece set bonuses are very powerful. Two, KHG engines are the only engines ingame that makes your ship immune to engine power offline mode due to their Hot Restart ability.

rodentmaster

Nowhere does it say "power bonus AT LOW POWER LEVELS" -- where other things such as cores and the like specifically state this.

http://sto.gamepedia.com/Honor_Guard_Impulse_Engines#Klingon_Honor_Guard_Impulse_Engines

It should be a flat bonus. Across the board.

warmaker001b

rodentmaster wrote: »

Nowhere does it say "power bonus AT LOW POWER LEVELS" -- where other things such as cores and the like specifically state this.

http://sto.gamepedia.com/Honor_Guard_Impulse_Engines#Klingon_Honor_Guard_Impulse_Engines

It should be a flat bonus. Across the board.

The others have already mentioned it already, the bonus power is Efficiency based.

The game used to have it where bonus power was exactly that, flat bonus power. When STO released, Efficient Engines provided a flat +5 bonus to subsystem power. When I came back about 2 years later, it was changed to Efficiency based on low power.

I know it sucks, but it is what it is.

majortiraomega

Now the Dyson Impulse Engines are a flat +2.5 power to three subsystems. If you don't care about the KHG set bonuses or the Hot Restart, it is an option.

rodentmaster

Well, thanks for that tip, though I'm not very pleased with any of the dyson gear so far.

omegaphallic

The Dyson Engines are good, solid bonus power to three subsystems and they're fastest effiencent impulse engines. Good set bonuses as well.


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tehbubbaloo

why anyone wants combat engines is beyond me.

alexvecci

tehbubbaloo wrote: »

why anyone wants combat engines is beyond me.

because they require a lot less energy to be efficient, allowing you to redirect some extra energy from the engines to weapons, shields or aux.

And because they tend to have better turn rate and speed at normal impulse.

majortiraomega

omegaphallic wrote: »

The Dyson Engines are good, solid bonus power to three subsystems and they're fastest effiencent impulse engines. Good set bonuses as well.

The Dyson engines aren't efficient engines. The power bonus does not scale with subsystem levels. It's a flat +2.5 all around the board.

warmaker001b

alexvecci wrote: »

because they require a lot less energy to be efficient, allowing you to redirect some extra energy from the engines to weapons, shields or aux.

And because they tend to have better turn rate and speed at normal impulse.

For Combat Impulse Engines to really show their stuff, they need to be at really low power levels. With the abundance of power to be had in the game, via DOFFs, Warp Core Efficiency Skill, "Efficient" engines, Red Matter Capacitor, Engine Batteries, Emergency Power to X (including DOFF that has a chance to provide massive subsystem power to all subsystems when using any Emergency Power ability), good Warp / Singularity Cores, etc., it's actually quite hard to stay at very low Engine Power levels, unless you make a conscientious effort to keep power that low.

Oftenly during my play, my Subsystem Power goes up and down very frequently, and even Engine Power is never quite that low to make the most of Combat Impulse Engines. If you want to catch a fleeing opponent and Evasive Maneuvers isn't available, you need to pop Red Matter Capacitor or an Engine Battery. Combine that with Hyper-Impulse Engines, then you got some REAL speed to catch people.

I used to be an advocate of Combat Impulse Engines. This was an old practice from the early days of STO. Then after being pointed out by a friend about how my power levels actually were moving around at, I then became a convert to Hyper-Impulse. If not Hyper, then regular Impulse Engines, but Combat Impulse lost their allure long ago for me.

alexvecci

warmaker001b wrote: »

For Combat Impulse Engines to really show their stuff, they need to be at really low power levels. With the abundance of power to be had in the game, via DOFFs, Warp Core Efficiency Skill, "Efficient" engines, Red Matter Capacitor, Engine Batteries, Emergency Power to X (including DOFF that has a chance to provide massive subsystem power to all subsystems when using any Emergency Power ability), good Warp / Singularity Cores, etc., it's actually quite hard to stay at very low Engine Power levels, unless you make a conscientious effort to keep power that low.

Oftenly during my play, my Subsystem Power goes up and down very frequently, and even Engine Power is never quite that low to make the most of Combat Impulse Engines. If you want to catch a fleeing opponent and Evasive Maneuvers isn't available, you need to pop Red Matter Capacitor or an Engine Battery. Combine that with Hyper-Impulse Engines, then you got some REAL speed to catch people.

I used to be an advocate of Combat Impulse Engines. This was an old practice from the early days of STO. Then after being pointed out by a friend about how my power levels actually were moving around at, I then became a convert to Hyper-Impulse. If not Hyper, then regular Impulse Engines, but Combat Impulse lost their allure long ago for me.

I still use them despite the kinda high subsystem power we get nowadays, and i even got some fleet ones for the slowest ships i have (like the Galaxy-X, that one really smiles at me with the saucer when i put the [Turn]x3 engine on it).

ursusmorologus

I think the efficiency bonus is determined by the power setting not the current level. Results are effectively the same in this case though, since you cant feasibly run more than one system at 15

thissler

warmaker001b wrote: »

. Combine that with Hyper-Impulse Engines, then you got some REAL speed to catch people.

That is pretty much it right there. The speed gain of Combat over the other two are very small. Small enough that you would never notice it unless you were measuring it.

The advantage of Hyper over the other two is significant once you start to apply the speed boosts. You really will notice the difference in speed and distanced travelled during a battery powered evasive maneuvers between the engine types.

rodentmaster

I was playing with power levels in local space and it wasn't acting like you say. Even at 15 setting (real power about 30?) I was only getting something like +1.8 for that bank according to the tooltip hover readout. Even going from max to minimum power levels, it didn't change. I tried closing window and bringing it back up.

The difference in top speed was not very big either, from min to max power. There's no down side to using efficient engines at higher powers. You just get more the more power you have with any engine. These are no different. They did not give more speed or turn when lowering power at any point. It scaled up just like hyper engines.

generator88

What's the Engine power breakpoint at which Hyper-Impulse Engines outperform standard Impulse Engines? I'd previously been told that the corresponding breakpoint where Impulse outperforms Combat Impulse is somewhere in the low 50s, but never got the other number.

Thanks,
Gen

rodentmaster

That's kind of hard to test unless you respec and wipe stats clear, because your skills will change power settings in the different banks. You need a clean slate and a bunch of time to test it out.

alexvecci

generator88 wrote: »

What's the Engine power breakpoint at which Hyper-Impulse Engines outperform standard Impulse Engines? I'd previously been told that the corresponding breakpoint where Impulse outperforms Combat Impulse is somewhere in the low 50s, but never got the other number.

Thanks,
Gen

Combat impulse engines start having their full effect at and below 25
Standard impulse engines work between 25 and 75
Hyper-impulse really shine with a power setting at and above 75

rodentmaster

Define "really shine"? Because at 25 power the combat engines give less speed and DPS than at 50, and at 50 they give less than 75, and at 75 less than 100.

If they "really shone" at 25 power, they'd be giving more speed or DPS than the same engine at 75 power. That just isn't the case.

I think the differences are too small to really care, when all is said and done. Better to look at the other features/specs of the engine than what type it falls under.

generator88

25 for Combat engines, eh? It's even lower than I thought. Okay, thanks for the prompt reply.

notapwefan

warmaker001b wrote: »

The game used to have it where bonus power was exactly that, flat bonus power. When STO released, Efficient Engines provided a flat +5 bonus to subsystem power. When I came back about 2 years later, it was changed to Efficiency based on low power.

I had exactly the same problem. When KHG was released then +5 flat bonus to all mentioned subsystems, and I got it for a couple of my crafts. But then this changed somewhere in the line, and most likely the showrunner for that area in cryptic forgot to add "Efficient at low power in subsystem" text. Hence, people were and probably are duped into getting that engine. I even started a thread a couple of months before when I noticed this change.

Anyhow, the engine is good for 2 pcs bonus, hot restart and + in aux and + in engine if you run/able to run your ship at very low aux and engine settings.

omegaphallic

rodentmaster wrote: »

Define "really shine"? Because at 25 power the combat engines give less speed and DPS than at 50, and at 50 they give less than 75, and at 75 less than 100.

If they "really shone" at 25 power, they'd be giving more speed or DPS than the same engine at 75 power. That just isn't the case.

I think the differences are too small to really care, when all is said and done. Better to look at the other features/specs of the engine than what type it falls under.

Agreed, especially when there are other factors effecting speed, heck when I get into combat I tend to cut the throttle to mid point as it were anyway.

Setting aside engine type as honestly its not that important, I'd say stuff like setting bonus and special goodies are more important, although honestly I'd say aside from set bonuses impulse engines are one of the least important pieces of equiptment. Still set bonuses are important and that much makes a difference.

tehbubbaloo

i dunno whats going on with anyone else, but i find the omega engine (hyper) to be far zippier than any combat engine, and speed=defence. i tend to keep engine and shield power turned down and weapon/aux turned up, but i overall have an abundance of power. the omega engine seems to take advantage of this in a way that the combat engines cant.
combat engines did serve their function a couple years ago, but today the power is so plentiful that i am not sure why anyone would bother with them.