I really dont care, sure let all be able to use cannons, but how about balancing beam arrays with cannons first. Damage is fine left as is with DHC's having more damage and beam arrays less because of the arc but power drain for beams does some serious harm to damage the more beam arrays you have while cannons do not have that issue. If DHC's are not the only choice unless you want to do some heavy power managment to negate beams drain then choosing cannons over beams would simply be a preferance. Once it is a preferance and not required for DPS without heavy power managment then fewer will want cannons and even beam array escorts could be a valid build and more build options would be available.
As it is now to get DHC level DPS with beam arrays I have to overcap weapon power, replenish the power rapidly, and decrease drain. If I just put beam arrays in without doing all 3 then weapon power will drop to the 50's and never get back over 100 while firing. DHC's you just put them in and fire away and rarely if ever go under 100 weapon power. This is where many players do not understand how that power drain hurts DPS and so they try beam arrays and DHC's then see the differance in damage and think the only valid choice if they want to do DPS is to use DHC's. If Beam arrays drained power the same as cannons then DHC's would not be the go to weapon for damage, having the ability to use cannons would not be desired for every ship possible.
If beams and cannons had drain the same i would run a beam array escort. max speed and weapons on target constantly without having to do strafing runs. more turn so I could do figure eights around targets and keep shield facings rotating. And have full evasion. To me that would be better than slowing to a crawl to maximise fore targeting, having that 1 shield facing getting hit and very little evasion. then having to turn arouns and get a good distance away before starting the next run. Might lose spike damage but with weapons on target 100% of the time and fewer run and heal makes up for that. I guess thats why my tac flies a beam boat cruiser now, more constant DPS, more kills, and far less dying.
This has all the winning. Make beam and DHC drain to be actually comparable.
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This has all the winning. Make beam and DHC drain to be actually comparable.
Beams easily outdamage DHCs. The only thing DHCs have going for them is they deal it faster, but over time beams always win.
Single target it can be close, sometimes with the heavies edging out the beams, but multi target beams not only win, they win decisively.
Ive even seen single target figures from a strongly specced beamer outdamage my tacscort. It can happen.
You dont even need aux to bat or dem, tbh.
And here is the real rub: A cannon user has to actually line their attacks up, a beamboat doesnt. They fire that lolDPS all around them. They have sweetspots on the broadside, but when you sum up the firing arcs and how they overlap, the beamboat will ALWAYS have more weapons on a target assuming they are flying it correctly.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Beams easily outdamage DHCs. The only thing DHCs have going for them is they deal it faster, but over time beams always win.
Single target it can be close, sometimes with the heavies edging out the beams, but multi target beams not only win, they win decisively.
Ive even seen single target figures from a strongly specced beamer outdamage my tacscort. It can happen.
You dont even need aux to bat or dem, tbh.
And here is the real rub: A cannon user has to actually line their attacks up, a beamboat doesnt. They fire that lolDPS all around them. They have sweetspots on the broadside, but when you sum up the firing arcs and how they overlap, the beamboat will ALWAYS have more weapons on a target assuming they are flying it correctly.
I've played around a bit with the Fleet Avengar and Fleet Defiant on my tac. DHC Avengar gets about 1k less DPS than the Defiant but beam boat Avengar got about 2k more than the Defiant. Thats with no RCS and +Huh nuetroniums on the Defiant, 1 RCS and 2 +Turn nuetroniums on the DHC Avengar, No RCS but +Turn on beam boat. So even with lots of turn the Avengar is not up to par with an escort when equiped with DHC's. I tried beams on the Escort and I couldnt get power managment up to par to make them viable, but on my engi I could for brief periods and a beam scort is fun to fly as well as deadly.
Ill give it a try with some of the new gear that helps with drain later maybe.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
And here is the real rub: A cannon user has to actually line their attacks up, a beamboat doesnt. They fire that lolDPS all around them. They have sweetspots on the broadside, but when you sum up the firing arcs and how they overlap, the beamboat will ALWAYS have more weapons on a target assuming they are flying it correctly.
If you want to go further with it then the avenger with 5 dbb up front gives you a bit of control over your faw while still doing more damage then the broadsider. with the kcb and the omi-ap beam in the back with a turret and you got your bfaw in escort style in a cruiser that can stil aux2bat and dem if you want it too.
The "real rub" here is that bfaw increases the rate of fire. since dbb have a narrower fire arc it is possible to get only one target and bfaw become a pseudo beam rapid fire and not just a scatter volley equivalent. It is the best of both worlds.
If you want to go further with it then the avenger with 5 dbb up front gives you a bit of control over your faw while still doing more damage then the broadsider. with the kcb and the omi-ap beam in the back with a turret and you got your bfaw in escort style in a cruiser that can stil aux2bat and dem if you want it too.
The "real rub" here is that bfaw increases the rate of fire. since dbb have a narrower fire arc it is possible to get only one target and bfaw become a pseudo beam rapid fire and not just a scatter volley equivalent. It is the best of both worlds.
Never could understand why people don't make use of bfaw against single enemies, it boots the shot cycle and damage for a slight wp drain at the end, but it can be easily mitigated. So long as they fix the critd issue with the skill I have always found it to be useful against multiple and single enemies alike.
Personally I think we need to see cannons draw more power than the ship can replenish, so that they can't be used constantly. Cannons should offer burst damage, but should diminish in effectiveness the longer they are used.
Beams should be the opposite; medium damage but with power drain balanced against replenishment.
Personally I think we need to see cannons draw more power than the ship can replenish, so that they can't be used constantly. Cannons should offer burst damage, but should diminish in effectiveness the longer they are used.
Beams should be the opposite; medium damage but with power drain balanced against replenishment.
They could easily make beams mitigate wp drain by eliminating the need for each and every array to fire a 4 shot cycle. Beams even in canon were fired in a single burst for full effect, while the next array cycles afterwards.
I've suggested this before, but I say this game needs some cruiser-only single heavy broadside cannons. Sixty degree firing arc to the port and starboard.
Alternately (or in addition to that), cruiser-only dual turrets.
It would not matter to cruisers because their turn rate is so slow that mounting cannons on them would be sheer stupidity. Science vessels, however, would be much improved if they could mount cannons, as the Vesta line already can.
To be honest, I suspect the key reason you can't put dual cannons on every ship is to prevent stupid setups, and then have those people whining why they can't succeed at anything and get wiped out in a hurry. When I was starting out and saw those dual cannons for the first time, I thought, "That would be cool!"--but I had a sci ship and couldn't put them on. After awhile I took a closer look at the firing arcs (45 degrees!) and realized that they're pretty much worthless on a sci ship--since I spend most of my time running away until my gravity wells have cooled down to be able to be fired again. If I had to keep my nose at the enemy all the time--I'd be nerfed every time.
And there's my point--the new players won't realize that and think they've got a cool setup when the put dual cannons all over their sci ships or engineering tanks--then cry foul when they get blasted before they have a chance to turn their nose to anyone.
Heck--I'm not even much a fan of the dual beam banks for the narrow arcs. Just replaced my only dual beam bank with that 360 degree Borg Kinetic cutter. It's pretty cool now when I do my FAW at a single enemy.
The dual cannons are only of value on ships with a high turn rate. That's why it's pretty much only on the escorts that you see them.
I can just imagine them on the Obelisk carrier--now that would be funny. By the time you got the thing turned around, you'd either be decimated or wondering where everybody was.
I've suggested this before, but I say this game needs some cruiser-only single heavy broadside cannons. Sixty degree firing arc to the port and starboard.
That would be a bit of a neat idea that would work well with the cruisers--and something different.
I've suggested this before, but I say this game needs some cruiser-only single heavy broadside cannons. Sixty degree firing arc to the port and starboard.
Alternately (or in addition to that), cruiser-only dual turrets.
Would love to have a nova class with some pew-pew *explosion*
Yeah, the Nova and Nebula always seem more tactically oriented than science based.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Even on a Avenger I wouldn't want cannons. DHCs have a weapons dps drop off immediately. Beams maintain a maximum dps for up to 5 km. Even in stfs this is important because escorts don't like being near the gate because they are too squishy or stay 5 km away from Donatra or she'll cloak, etc.
In those cases om already doing more damage and with the Marion doff, the Omega Weapon Amplifier and the Weapons System Efficiency, I can have all 8 weapons (5 dbb, 2 turrets and a kcb) firing with no energy draw.
If I can have max dps with no energy drain from 5 kms away with bfaw in a manageable firing arc where I can hit multi-targets or treat bfaw like a beam rapid fire against one target while tanking, why would I want inefficient cannons?
Comments
This has all the winning. Make beam and DHC drain to be actually comparable.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Beams easily outdamage DHCs. The only thing DHCs have going for them is they deal it faster, but over time beams always win.
Single target it can be close, sometimes with the heavies edging out the beams, but multi target beams not only win, they win decisively.
Ive even seen single target figures from a strongly specced beamer outdamage my tacscort. It can happen.
You dont even need aux to bat or dem, tbh.
And here is the real rub: A cannon user has to actually line their attacks up, a beamboat doesnt. They fire that lolDPS all around them. They have sweetspots on the broadside, but when you sum up the firing arcs and how they overlap, the beamboat will ALWAYS have more weapons on a target assuming they are flying it correctly.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Aux2Bat and DEM are for noobies.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I've played around a bit with the Fleet Avengar and Fleet Defiant on my tac. DHC Avengar gets about 1k less DPS than the Defiant but beam boat Avengar got about 2k more than the Defiant. Thats with no RCS and +Huh nuetroniums on the Defiant, 1 RCS and 2 +Turn nuetroniums on the DHC Avengar, No RCS but +Turn on beam boat. So even with lots of turn the Avengar is not up to par with an escort when equiped with DHC's. I tried beams on the Escort and I couldnt get power managment up to par to make them viable, but on my engi I could for brief periods and a beam scort is fun to fly as well as deadly.
Ill give it a try with some of the new gear that helps with drain later maybe.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Let Fed ships, or at least sci and cruiser ships, use single cannons in the back.
BAM
Instant unique feature for Feds without stomping on the other factions, and is something I wouldn't mind using.
Kinda like it.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If you want to go further with it then the avenger with 5 dbb up front gives you a bit of control over your faw while still doing more damage then the broadsider. with the kcb and the omi-ap beam in the back with a turret and you got your bfaw in escort style in a cruiser that can stil aux2bat and dem if you want it too.
The "real rub" here is that bfaw increases the rate of fire. since dbb have a narrower fire arc it is possible to get only one target and bfaw become a pseudo beam rapid fire and not just a scatter volley equivalent. It is the best of both worlds.
Never could understand why people don't make use of bfaw against single enemies, it boots the shot cycle and damage for a slight wp drain at the end, but it can be easily mitigated. So long as they fix the critd issue with the skill I have always found it to be useful against multiple and single enemies alike.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Beams should be the opposite; medium damage but with power drain balanced against replenishment.
They could easily make beams mitigate wp drain by eliminating the need for each and every array to fire a 4 shot cycle. Beams even in canon were fired in a single burst for full effect, while the next array cycles afterwards.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Alternately (or in addition to that), cruiser-only dual turrets.
And there's my point--the new players won't realize that and think they've got a cool setup when the put dual cannons all over their sci ships or engineering tanks--then cry foul when they get blasted before they have a chance to turn their nose to anyone.
Heck--I'm not even much a fan of the dual beam banks for the narrow arcs. Just replaced my only dual beam bank with that 360 degree Borg Kinetic cutter. It's pretty cool now when I do my FAW at a single enemy.
The dual cannons are only of value on ships with a high turn rate. That's why it's pretty much only on the escorts that you see them.
I can just imagine them on the Obelisk carrier--now that would be funny. By the time you got the thing turned around, you'd either be decimated or wondering where everybody was.
That would be a bit of a neat idea that would work well with the cruisers--and something different.
I'm using 3 cannons and a dual beam on my Gal-R atm. Stupid? Great. Let me be free to be as stupid as I wish.
I really hate arbitrary restrictions that are put in place by people who believe they know what's best for everyone else.
Nooooo not more shield absorbed kinetic nonsense. :P
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Science ships : yes
Would love to have a nova class with some pew-pew *explosion*
Yeah, the Nova and Nebula always seem more tactically oriented than science based.
In those cases om already doing more damage and with the Marion doff, the Omega Weapon Amplifier and the Weapons System Efficiency, I can have all 8 weapons (5 dbb, 2 turrets and a kcb) firing with no energy draw.
If I can have max dps with no energy drain from 5 kms away with bfaw in a manageable firing arc where I can hit multi-targets or treat bfaw like a beam rapid fire against one target while tanking, why would I want inefficient cannons?