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science ships help
matchstick606
Member Posts: 233 Arc User
so without lockbox/lobi ships being an option what would be the best science ship for rom?
i would get a palisade for my rom alt but my main sucks up a lot of my resources and i don't want to invest to much on my rom. zen store ships ar an option but i don't know what warbird would do well for a science ship.
i would get a palisade for my rom alt but my main sucks up a lot of my resources and i don't want to invest to much on my rom. zen store ships ar an option but i don't know what warbird would do well for a science ship.
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Roms also have one pure science vessel, which is the Ha'nom (along with mirror and fleet versions). Its got built-in subsystem targeting and sensor analysis, and 4/3 sci BOFF seating, but its reallly big and a lot of people find it hard to fly.
Otherwise you'll need to look at lockbox/lobi ships, or wait to see if they release another romulan sci ship down the road later (which they have hinted at).
My romulan sci flies the T'varo rigged as a torpedo boat, and also has a Ha'nom (used for parts storage) and an Obelisk. I will eventually get a Dhelan, and probably a Tal Shiar Battlecruiser
I scoff at all claims that tactical ships are capable of acting as science ships. If it doesn't have a science or universal commander boff station, then you're limited to using the level 1 version of the best sci abilities. No thanks.
That's not to say they can't play a role - but that role is primarily tactical with some science thrown in.
Word is that the next Romulan ships to be released will be science warbirds of the same calibre as the fed vesta. I haven't seen first hand dev statements but I've read others say their eta is Christmas or early next year. If you can be patient, I'd wait for those.
In the meantime if you want a proper science ship I'd recommend the regular ha'nom over its mirror variant. I find its boff and console layout to be better. But that's assuming you still have the chit to get a free one. I definitely wouldn't waste dilithium buying a ha'nom. The mirror ha'nom is less than 100k on the exchange and a better deal.
The main problem I have with the ha'nom is its size. You are often literally bigger than every other player ship in an STF combined. That means you can become an obstacle to other players if you try to get in where the action is. Write off all the science and singularity pbaoe abilities, focus on things like gravity well and tyken's rift, and hang back as far as you can from the action.
MY FLEET:http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=498091
LOL
You keep a Ha'nom in your Space Garage as you would an old Volks for broken parts?
:P
- Scotty, to La Forge
Really? Golly gosh!
Now you're just trying to make us laugh.
"all" = 1, and it's mirror variant. All?! Hahahahaha :P
And it's funny how you call them "science-heavy" instead of just "science", which is what they are. The ha'nom is a science warbird, not a science-heavy warbird. The t'varo is a tac warbird with some flexibility in the boff department, not a science warbird.
This isn't limited to tac warbirds pretending to be sci warbirds.
I just said to forget all the pbaoe sci abilities in the grossly oversized ha'nom. Putting those aside... you have some shield and hull heals, tachyon beam, energy siphon, gravity well and tyken's rift. I know cannons work but I generally run with transphasic torpedoes, including the cluster one. 99% of other players use energy weapons so in STFs I find torpedoes bring more value to the table.
The ha'nom is functional in that role - gravity well, cluster torpedo, sensor scan, aoe torpedo. Throw in the tyken's if anything is still alive, or the tyken's first instead of gravity well against stuff like cubes. Always keeping well back and out of the way of team-mates.
That works but playing in eg. fed or kdf sci ships which aren't so freaking huge you have more options. They can do the above plus other stuff.
Variety. It's good for so many reasons!
Wow.
No I don't have to want what you tell me to want.
Egomaniacal much?
Not that tired old chestnut...
No I'm not doing it wrong. The ha'nom, mainly by virtue of freakish size, is somewhat limited. How big is its wingspan anyway? Most pbaoe abilities havie a 3km or 5km radius. It's harder to get ships inside that radius in a ha'nom.
These ships were originally designed as enemy vessels and true to MMO norms enemies are often a bit oversized. But that doesn't work so well for players.
Happy to help
Unfortunately that leaves us with one ship (and it's mirror), which is rather lackluster.
So much for Romulan Science prowess.
i bet my behind that a grav well 1 and scatter volley 2 + AP beta 3 from 4 DHC and turrets is more effective than a grav well 3 in 99% of the situations this game throws at you.
the sci heavy escort remains the easiest way to play PVE content...and romulans have plenty of them. No need for a full blown sci ship anyway, which currently fall behind all the other ship classes when it comes to PVE content.
further, since romulans are merely allies to the factions, they don't necessarely need to fill that role anyway.
So playing a romulan and hoping to play with a sci ship is like going to an italien restaurant and expecting that their sushi is excellent.
If the only reason to play was to DPS everything into oblivion, I'd agree. But then if it was, I'd have gotten bored and walked away from this game long ago.
No, more like going to an Italian restaurant and expecting their cannoli to be excellent, only to find they have none. But here, they have eclairs! Be happy with eclairs!
--Red Annorax
Let's get this out first. DPS is KING in the game now.
The aforementioned GW1+CSV2+APB3 is more powerful in clearing NPCs out than GW3+APB2+CSV1.
- GW1 pulls together NPCs as fine as any GW. The strength lies in the build's Gravity Generators Skill. Damage from Grav Well itself was nerfed long, long ago, even if you camp out at the center.
- APB3's debuff is higher than APB2
- Dmg buff from CSV2 > CSV1
Let's be honest here... the REAL reason why people like Grav Well is bunching up targets to hit them with what really matters: Powerful AOE attacks or whatnot. In this purpose Baudl's example of GW1+CSV2+APB3 is much more efficient.
Again, STO these days is all about DPS, DPS, and more DPS. A close second is stuff that makes things easier to make you deal out that DPS better, i.e. Grav Well.
The SCIscort (typically Cmdr TAC, LtCdr SCI) is very efficient in this regard. They have the maneuverability to do anything. They have hands down the firepower and TAC Consoles / BOFF stations to do it. And they have just enough SCI Consoles / BOFF stations to control the battlefield NPCs to make their job easier.
The sad part is that the SCIscort will do the majority of what people want SCI for nowadays... Grav Well. It will do that function of control almost (not quite) as well as a dedicated Cmdr SCI type of ship. But with that basic form of control over NPCs, they can wield with higher effect those weapons / torps / TAC abilities.
Matter of fact, I'd rather have a SCIscort on the team than a dedicated Science Vessel (unless it's a Carrier, those are different beasts). The SCIscort player does the job of basic control, while still dishing out tremendous damage with the Cmdr level TAC station and weapons typical of an Escort. The SCIscort brings control and great firepower.
SCIscort examples? MVAE/Prometheus, Elachi S'Golth, KDF Birds of Prey (Universal BOFF Stations), Temporal Destroyers, and pretty much almost all Warbirds have the potential. They all bring basic SCI control and come with nasty TAC firepower & abilities.
And as I mentioned before, DPS is king in STO now. If you're not doing significant DPS, you are a hindrance to the team.
For you. Please quit trying to tell me how to enjoy myself.
I wouldn't dream of denying that using grav well to pull a bunch of bad guys into a little ball that can then be obliterated by your favorite AoE death-dispensing power is a *lot* of fun.
For you. Please quit trying to tell me how to enjoy myself.
Well aware of that. My T'varo is still probably my favorite ship on the whole.
If you're setting up the team, recruit who you want. No sweat off my nose.
For you. Please quit trying to tell me how to enjoy myself. You don't hear me barking at you about what you're doing wrong.
--Red Annorax
it is not really about enjoyment when we talk about effectiveness...apples and oranges
in other words you can't shift from a discussion that is about "what is objectively better, because there are numbers to prove it" to "what is more fun for me, you, everybody"
another thing is, that the grav well 3 +APbeta2 +scatter volley 1 doesn't really exist for most science vessels...only a handfull can actually use DHC, most have only access to beams or single cannons, or no ltdcmdr tac. Matter of fact, those with a ltdcmdr tac (and high turnrate) are already the preffered ones anyway.
Honestly, why anybody would like a hanom "sci vessel" to play STO is beyond me. In terms of stats this ship offers nothing...the only reason i can come up with is "fun" and even in that regard the tal shiar cruiser is somewhat superior when comparing stats.
grav well 1 is good enough for what it is supposed to do, since it doesn't matter how much dmg the grav well does...it is the warpcore breaches and the "zero def" on enemies that is interesting.
i actually consider it a little overpowered or unbalanced that NOT ONLY sci ships can use grav well.
Similar to escorts using DEM and marion doff, or RSP...those are the crown jewels of their respective field and should only be possible to use on those ships.
and to say DPS is king in STO is not an opinion...it is actually fact. It is not ONLY for me or warmaker001b, it is the easiest way to do "the grind" which is 99% of STO.
Sci vessels and even certain cruisers sure have their place in the game, but i wouldn't recommand them for the repeated grind (where max dmg is actually rewarded) that STO is.
Another example: No win scenario...the way to do it was/is sciscorts with TBR and grav well and a dedicated healer.
PS: i didn't even mention, until my last sentence, that most missions reward only the highest dmg dealers.
The issue here is the lack of dedicated Romulan Science ships, aka ships with a Cmdr Sci slot. Romulans currently have one. The Feds have plenty, and the KDF have plenty of ships that can have a Cmdr Sci, but the Romulans have one.
Suggesting that another ship might do PvE easier, or that our "allies" can fulfill the role doesn't address the issue that if a Rom wants to fly a Rom science vessel, he really only has one choice. Once again, telling someone that they shouldn't want a Cmdr Sci slot doesn't solve the problem, nor does suggesting that you don't want them on your team.
More than one dedicated Rom Science ship should be available to people who want to play them.
Actually it was Warmaker that took us there. I was simply pointing out that your comparisons weren't logical, and he jumped up my tailpipe with the "DPS is king and your desires are irrelevant" argument.
Probably true - I didn't spend time researching all the possible power combinations. I simply meant to point out that you were comparing one power (GW3) to a combination of powers (GW1+CSV2+APB3). I'm sure that you could come up with some possible groups of powers and crunch the numbers and say that GW3+whatever is X% less effective. But what is that number? 5%? 15%? 50%
Not all of us compare stats and decide based solely upon that criteria, and there is nothing wrong with that. The DPS kings may not want me on their STF team because I'm 'gimping myself' by using an inferior setup. Frankly, I'm just fine with that. I have better things to do than be berated for playing a game in a way that doesn't fit some narrow definition of 'best'. If flying a Ha'nom means I won't get picked on their team, then sign me up!
Just because it is the easiest, fastest way does not make it the only way. I'm not here for the grind. I'm not here to somehow 'win' by doing a bit more damage in some mission than you or anyone else. It just isn't important to me. It is obviously important to you, and that's just fine, but this game supports all kinds of playstyles. Mine is not "wrong" simply because you or anyone else doesn't understand it.
--Red Annorax
only objective things are valid, and stats on a ship are those objective data.
Everything else is guessing and generally just bad advice given in good intend.
if somebody asks for help in a game, than it most likely the reason is, that he is not performing too well...in other words, dies or takes too long to kill stuff.
to advice that person to go for the "most fun" is not appropriate advice...
romulans have no good sci ships, but they have a big selection of sci heavy cruisers and escorts to fill the gap, at least for PVE that is an excellent alternative. Maybe that is intentional.
"watch out we got a badass overhere!"
of course you you don't need an escort...but it is easier with one. and mentioning that you use a vesta kinda proofs that point anyway...a DHC capeable ship with a hangar and a boff layout so versatile you can practically do anything with it, doesn't really give leverage to the point you try to make.
[edit: point 2 not so much directed at you, just a comment in general. I read what I wrote and it sounded like I was lecturing you, which was not my intent.]
And yeah, its teh intarwebz. I get that.
I respectfully disagree. The original question was "What is the best Rom Sci ship". That 'best' will vary depending upon what the player wants to do with it. Best DPS to chew thru PVE content? Forget a true science ship and go SciScort, as you've pointed out.
The OP didn't give us any reason to assume that. I felt like he was wanting advice for which sci ship to use rather than make a 'bad' choice.
Well, I still maintain the Ha'nom is fine, but not everyone likes it for varying reasons. There are obviously plenty who would like a true alternative, but there are also plenty of threads dealing with that argument.
--Red Annorax