Female models

adamkafei

Can we please have the old ones back? The limbs looked more natural on those than they do on these models...

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jodarkrider

Well, I am mixed on this.. they are a tad thicker on the torso, which I personally kinda like, but the skin colour is unnaturally smooth, and thus, looks unnatural. That is most visible on classic humanoid pigmentation...

Tbh, female models do need some extra love... still cannot adjust the middle-part of the torso for example. That being sad, I don't want to completelly revert to the old model, rather than for the devs to continue on it and improve it.

adamkafei

jodarkrider wrote: »

Well, I am mixed on this.. they are a tad thicker on the torso, which I personally kinda like, but the skin colour is unnaturally smooth, and thus, looks unnatural. That is most visible on classic humanoid pigmentation...

To be honest I just want my character's old arms an legs back, they were just fine before.

senatorvreenak

*sigh* the only problem I had with the old model to be honest was the chicken-leg skirts.
But those were more problems with the specific types of skirt rather than the model as a whole.
On top of that they shrunk my head!!!

adamkafei

Am I the only one noticing that the model used by the character creator is different to the game model? my character looks fine in the tailor but the in game one has practically no lower leg to her.

I even took screenies

futurepastnow

senatorvreenak wrote: »

*sigh* the only problem I had with the old model to be honest was the chicken-leg skirts.
But those were more problems with the specific types of skirt rather than the model as a whole.
On top of that they shrunk my head!!!

I agree, I'm not a fan of the changes. Too-thin thigh on some skirts really was the only thing wrong with female models. Nothing else was a problem. Nothing else needed changed.

The character artists wanted to make it a lot worse. We managed to talk them down from the biggest changes on Tribble.

Oh well.

senatorvreenak

Appearantly you did not manage to talk him down enough.

Honestly this is a serious game breaker for me.
Ive spent countless hours tweaking and perfecting my toons, and this just isn't ok.

Some of my costumes are even irreplacable as they consist of costume combinations that were later locked out.

battykoda0

senatorvreenak wrote: »

*sigh* the only problem I had with the old model to be honest was the chicken-leg skirts.
But those were more problems with the specific types of skirt rather than the model as a whole.
On top of that they shrunk my head!!!

My Reman's head was enlarged. She looks like a baseball player bobble head. Her torso is smaller and her legs unchanged. Gonna adjust her and see what I can do. Right now, she's pretty scary. :eek:

adamkafei

senatorvreenak wrote: »

Ive spent countless hours tweaking and perfecting my toons, and this just isn't ok.

Exactly this.

For the character artist or any other art devs reading this...

This is great
This is tolorable
Just... no...

jodarkrider

Well, kind of makes me sad that they do not listen to people too much and just change even the good stuff on the characters; ie the texture quality. I still want TRIBBLE reduction for the minimum slider setting & ability to alter the thickness of the mid-part of the torso too...

Frankly, the female models/costumes seem to get the short end of the stick all the time in the game...

twg042370

They're a bit boney. I haven't tried to thicken them up a bit.

adamkafei

twg042370 wrote: »

They're a bit boney. I haven't tried to thicken them up a bit.

I have, it works in the creator but you only get about half that on the actual model

frtoaster

Based on the feedback we gave on Tribble forums, crypticjoejing has requested that we create separate threads for separate topics instead of one superthread for all the changes, because that makes it harder for them to keep track of all the issues. I created the following thread to discuss the changes to the leg models and related changes to the lower body:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=13417361

And here is a thread to discuss the changes to the hand models:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=13419381

frtoaster

adamkafei wrote: »

I have, it works in the creator but you only get about half that on the actual model

Just to clarify, are you saying that the changes you make in the tailor aren't being applied?

adamkafei

frtoaster wrote: »

Just to clarify, are you saying that the changes you make in the tailor aren't being applied?

They are being applied but either the percentages don't line up or the models are plain different.

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=1D51A419418C36C7&id=1D51A419418C36C7%211033&v=3
https://skydrive.live.com/?mkt=en-GB#cid=1D51A419418C36C7&id=1D51A419418C36C7%211034&v=3

Are both using the same slider settings in the tailor, both are live and taken today, as you can see the preview and the results are completely different.

jodarkrider

adamkafei wrote: »

They are being applied but either the percentages don't line up or the models are plain different.

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=1D51A419418C36C7&id=1D51A419418C36C7%211033&v=3
https://skydrive.live.com/?mkt=en-GB#cid=1D51A419418C36C7&id=1D51A419418C36C7%211034&v=3

Are both using the same slider settings in the tailor, both are live and taken today, as you can see the preview and the results are completely different.

These legs look weird on the ingame model... while those in tailor not. Something is really off there.

commanderkassy

What new models?

frtoaster

adamkafei wrote: »

They are being applied but either the percentages don't line up or the models are plain different.

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=1D51A419418C36C7&id=1D51A419418C36C7%211033&v=3
https://skydrive.live.com/?mkt=en-GB#cid=1D51A419418C36C7&id=1D51A419418C36C7%211034&v=3

Are both using the same slider settings in the tailor, both are live and taken today, as you can see the preview and the results are completely different.

I'm having trouble seeing what you are talking about. Can you get screenshots from the same angle and distance, preferably in a more neutral stance?

tpalelena

Hm... my romulan's waist is not as thick as it was on tribble.

I was afraid their rears would be way bigger than before.


But I do like the smoother face textures. Cosmetics do exist in the 25th century i would hope. Oh and female hands now actually have nails. That is an improvement.

futurepastnow

senatorvreenak wrote: »

Appearantly you did not manage to talk him down enough.

Honestly this is a serious game breaker for me.
Ive spent countless hours tweaking and perfecting my toons, and this just isn't ok.

Some of my costumes are even irreplacable as they consist of costume combinations that were later locked out.

I and other people tried to tell them. Dramatically altering the way years-old characters look is not cool. *shrug* It's a lot better than it could have been. Those original tested changes... *shudder*

adamkafei

frtoaster wrote: »

I'm having trouble seeing what you are talking about. Can you get screenshots from the same angle and distance, preferably in a more neutral stance?

I got as close as I'm likely to get to these criteria and the results can be found here:
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=1d51a419418c36c7&id=1D51A419418C36C7%21131#cid=1D51A419418C36C7&id=1D51A419418C36C7%211036

And while these look more similar I shouldn't be forced to change my character's look to suit a new pose just so she looks remotely Human (or Betazoid in her case)

crypticjoejing

Hey guys, we're looking into it. Don't panic.

Head size and hip size is known. That and face textures will be reverting as soon as we can check in non critical fixes.

You can find more detailed responses here: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=911931

adamkafei

crypticjoejing wrote: »

Hey guys, we're looking into it. Don't panic.

Head size and hip size is known. That and face textures will be reverting as soon as we can check in non critical fixes.

You can find more detailed responses here: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=911931

Thanks for the response, my main point is with the legs here, I spent more hours than I care to remember getting them right for my character but at the moment either they aren't scaling the same way they are in the creator or something is wrong with the model, I know this to be fact for the cute pose (As demonstrated in this post with before, current tailor and current game). Can you please fix this?

crypticjoejing

adamkafei wrote: »

Thanks for the response, my main point is with the legs here, I spent more hours than I care to remember getting them right for my character...

We know there are often hours put into making your characters and then months and even years are put into playing them. We don't want to ruin those beloved characters.

So keep in mind we want to find a balance of retaining what you've created while also making the whole system better, easier, and faster whenever you and others make new characters (so hopefully you don't *have* to spend hours on just one one body part to make it look normal and good). Ideally the characters would look "good" from the start and then players tweak for personal taste.

That said, intended improvements can have undesirable cascading effects, but it's not always as easy or the best idea for us to "just revert".

Aside from the hip width which we will revert (which will also thin the thighs a tiny bit), the legs with skirts are a good example.

Before, by default, legs with most skirts looked pretty atrocious from the front and back. The thighs were literally thinner than the calves and were bowl-legged. That meant that a large percentage of players that didn't customize their proportions had *terrible* looking legs, and even those players that attempted to fix it could only do so much...and it still looked pretty bad.

Now in S8, the legs with skirts look more natural by default. However, this introduced a new bug where the waist is clipping. Do we freak out and revert? Only if the new bug is worse than the previous problem and/or is too difficult to fix. In this case, the seam is an easy fix, so we should keep the improved legs and fix the new bug.

This is the sort of evaluation that we have to do on a constant basis. There are thousands of interconnected systems and components in making a game, and a live game adds to the challenges; the plus side to that, though, is we can hear and address your feedback.

Anyway, hope a little insight helps us all work together on making the game better.

cerritourug

crypticjoejing wrote: »

Now in S8, the legs with skirts look more natural by default. However, this introduced a new bug where the waist is clipping. Do we freak out and revert? Only if the new bug is worse than the previous problem and/or is too difficult to fix. In this case, the seam is an easy fix, so we should keep the improved legs and fix the new bug.

I picture is better than 1000 words:
Old Holodeck leg model:
http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z432/cerritouru/screenshot_2013-10-03-20-56-11.jpg

Current Holodeck leg model:
http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z432/cerritouru/screenshot_2013-10-03-20-57-11.jpg

The current one is not perfect (expecialy the hip width that is going to be fixed) but the legs are much better NOW.

Lets wait that crypticjoejing gives us the fix, and then we decide if we want to go back to thouse horrible legs.

Sorry for bad english.

lucho80

I don't usually pay attention to how my toon looks, but judging from those photos, yes, the legs look better, but the arms look way too think.

centersolace

That thigh gap. @_@

starfleetmaco

The female char's faces are screwed up. It's like they had way too much make up on it. Pretty highly annoyed about this as I put a lot of work to my chars' appearance. I'm this close to leaving the game because Cryptic is becoming the masters of fixing things that don't need to be fixed AT ALL, instead they create more issues! I've been playing this game since beta and this just may have crossed the line for me. I don't like my hard work being altered at all. AT ALL! Put more resources into current and long time bugs that are still around, for example, like the honor guard and maco outfit bugs, instead of breaking more things like this one.



I'm sorry but I'm not normally a harsh critic, usually more supportive, but this time, Cryptic has really crossed the line.

mandoknight89

starfleetmaco wrote: »

Put more resources into current and long time bugs that are still around, for example, like the honor guard and maco outfit bugs, instead of breaking more things like this one.

Obviously, they decided that the atrocious thighs on most skirts was a current/long time bug and worth working on.

jodarkrider

mandoknight89 wrote: »

Obviously, they decided that the atrocious thighs on most skirts was a current/long time bug and worth working on.

Well, to be fair, the female legs looked awfully originally, if the character wore a skirt, judging by the screenshots. I wouldn't know, because I'd not have my character wear dress/skirt if they paid me for it, but I can see why people would get upset, if they wanted to have an option for skirts, and when picking them, they were stuck with horribly looking legs... So I am glad they are trying to address the issue.

Some people find it difficult to understand that other people are concerned about seemingly 'trivial' things about their characters, which technically have nothing to do with game mechanics/gameplay improvement; but I understand completelly. People love to immerse into the game and create characters they like, in order to increase the enjoyment and immersion in the game.