Yes, I hate this too. Especially when it comes to car metaphors.
HEY LET'S COMPARE STARSHIPS MADE WITH MAGICAL SPACE FUTURE TECHNOLOGY TO MY CAR!
I don't think I've ever heard a good car metaphor for anything. It's like the go-to comparison for people who make bad comparisons.
Well technically its a good metaphor for describing how much better designed 23rd century starships are to their 24th century counterparts
I means seriously you damage one of a Galaxy's warp nacelles and the ship blows up, where as you blast a warp nacelle off of a Miranda WITH A PHOTON TORPEDO and its just stuck limping on impulse.
The Tier 5 T'Varo is not hundreds of years old. It was recently built by the Romulan Republic. Romulans have been in space for far longer than humans have and their ship designs have matured for centuries. So it is an old ship design that has been built with modern materials and technology. The NX is apparently the same thing so even though it is built with modern materials and technology, the ship design prevented it from being more than a Tier 1 ship.
What is this? Seems like the only thing stopping that being a 300 year old T'Varo is its name. What is the issue with doing the same thing with the NX? It's been done with a bunch of other in-game ships. I'm not going to argue semantics on this one. That linked ship is a T'Varo whether people like it or not, or do we think that Cryptic came up with the T'Varo desgin coincidentally by themselves? There is no logical argument beyond a CBS veto for there not to be T5 variants of ships like the NX, Miranda and Connie.
*edit* Also, can you explain why the NX ship design prevents if from being more than a T1 ship but this is not true for the others, like the T'Varo, that are 'old ship designs that have been built with modern materials and technology'? *edit*
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
What is this? Seems like the only thing stopping that being a 300 year old T'Varo is its name. What is the issue with doing the same thing with the NX? It's been done with a bunch of other in-game ships. I'm not going to argue semantics on this one. That linked ship is a T'Varo whether people like it or not, or do we think that Cryptic came up with the T'Varo desgin coincidentally by themselves? There is no logical argument beyond a CBS veto for there not to be T5 variants of ships like the NX, Miranda and Connie.
*edit* Also, can you explain why the NX ship design prevents if from being more than a T1 ship but this is not true for the others, like the T'Varo, that are 'old ship designs that have been built with modern materials and technology'? *edit*
Aliens have been in space for far longer than humans have and they have different design philosophy than humans. When humans build something, it has an established lifespan and then the next model comes out. When aliens build something, they don't have to follow the new design every 10 years system that humans seem to have. Therefore, they are less likely to create a new design when a perfectly good design already exists. If the 22nd Century T'Varo fit the ship design for a 25th Century ship, then Romulans would likely use it. If it is not broke, then don't fix it. Since they are aliens and don't have to follow the same beliefs as humans, then it is easy to explain why they have modern ships that look the same as ships 200 years ago and humans don't.
As far as Starfleet ships being created by many aliens and therefore ship designs are not completely human, Star Trek has always been a human-centric show with the token alien so aliens in Starfleet are always underrepresented. There might be the odd alien working to design ships, but it is mostly humans that design ships for Starfleet.
Aliens have been in space for far longer than humans have and they have different design philosophy than humans. When humans build something, it has an established lifespan and then the next model comes out. When aliens build something, they don't have to follow the new design every 10 years system that humans seem to have. Therefore, they are less likely to create a new design when a perfectly good design already exists. If the 22nd Century T'Varo fit the ship design for a 25th Century ship, then Romulans would likely use it. If it is not broke, then don't fix it. Since they are aliens and don't have to follow the same beliefs as humans, then it is easy to explain why they have modern ships that look the same as ships 200 years ago and humans don't.
As far as Starfleet ships being created by many aliens and therefore ship designs are not completely human, Star Trek has always been a human-centric show with the token alien so aliens in Starfleet are always underrepresented. There might be the odd alien working to design ships, but it is mostly humans that design ships for Starfleet.
That would also be a valid point if some races also redid their designs more often than humans do to show their dissatisfaction with the work.
But if you wish to argue design philosophy of vulcans/romulans. Why not use the fact that they are extremely longer lived than humans and think of obsolesence in longer terms? So to them a design from Enterprise would be old but not obsolete by their long term thining.
On a similar vein, Klingons. They do upgrade designs, but they build very solidly and put less energy into construction as they do combat. So their designs go slowly, but they do adapt. Then keep every available ship around to be used if they need enough numbers. As evidenced by the D7's seen attacking DS9 in Way of the Warrior.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
That would also be a valid point if some races also redid their designs more often than humans do to show their dissatisfaction with the work.
But if you wish to argue design philosophy of vulcans/romulans. Why not use the fact that they are extremely longer lived than humans and think of obsolesence in longer terms? So to them a design from Enterprise would be old but not obsolete by their long term thining.
On a similar vein, Klingons. They do upgrade designs, but they build very solidly and put less energy into construction as they do combat. So their designs go slowly, but they do adapt. Then keep every available ship around to be used if they need enough numbers. As evidenced by the D7's seen attacking DS9 in Way of the Warrior.
I went for a general excuse as to why old alien ships are at Tier 5, but that could work for Romulans and Vulcans. The problem is that the only Federation ships that are from their member races are in Enterprise. So having a different design philosophy than humans is a good reason IMO for having Andorian and Vulcan ships from Enterprise. If the other series showed Vulcan and Andorian ships, then it would be a different matter.
Comments
Well technically its a good metaphor for describing how much better designed 23rd century starships are to their 24th century counterparts
I means seriously you damage one of a Galaxy's warp nacelles and the ship blows up, where as you blast a warp nacelle off of a Miranda WITH A PHOTON TORPEDO and its just stuck limping on impulse.
What is this? Seems like the only thing stopping that being a 300 year old T'Varo is its name. What is the issue with doing the same thing with the NX? It's been done with a bunch of other in-game ships. I'm not going to argue semantics on this one. That linked ship is a T'Varo whether people like it or not, or do we think that Cryptic came up with the T'Varo desgin coincidentally by themselves? There is no logical argument beyond a CBS veto for there not to be T5 variants of ships like the NX, Miranda and Connie.
*edit* Also, can you explain why the NX ship design prevents if from being more than a T1 ship but this is not true for the others, like the T'Varo, that are 'old ship designs that have been built with modern materials and technology'? *edit*
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Aliens have been in space for far longer than humans have and they have different design philosophy than humans. When humans build something, it has an established lifespan and then the next model comes out. When aliens build something, they don't have to follow the new design every 10 years system that humans seem to have. Therefore, they are less likely to create a new design when a perfectly good design already exists. If the 22nd Century T'Varo fit the ship design for a 25th Century ship, then Romulans would likely use it. If it is not broke, then don't fix it. Since they are aliens and don't have to follow the same beliefs as humans, then it is easy to explain why they have modern ships that look the same as ships 200 years ago and humans don't.
As far as Starfleet ships being created by many aliens and therefore ship designs are not completely human, Star Trek has always been a human-centric show with the token alien so aliens in Starfleet are always underrepresented. There might be the odd alien working to design ships, but it is mostly humans that design ships for Starfleet.
That would also be a valid point if some races also redid their designs more often than humans do to show their dissatisfaction with the work.
But if you wish to argue design philosophy of vulcans/romulans. Why not use the fact that they are extremely longer lived than humans and think of obsolesence in longer terms? So to them a design from Enterprise would be old but not obsolete by their long term thining.
On a similar vein, Klingons. They do upgrade designs, but they build very solidly and put less energy into construction as they do combat. So their designs go slowly, but they do adapt. Then keep every available ship around to be used if they need enough numbers. As evidenced by the D7's seen attacking DS9 in Way of the Warrior.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
I went for a general excuse as to why old alien ships are at Tier 5, but that could work for Romulans and Vulcans. The problem is that the only Federation ships that are from their member races are in Enterprise. So having a different design philosophy than humans is a good reason IMO for having Andorian and Vulcan ships from Enterprise. If the other series showed Vulcan and Andorian ships, then it would be a different matter.