Cruiser Commands AoE is too Small

hasukurobi

As the title states that 5 KM radius is too tiny. STO is not a game where you can really fly in formation very well to begin with and clustering into balls was made a very bad idea a long time ago.

Also as this is a communications array supposedly designed to allow the Cruiser to coordinate the battle then why is it so notably limited in range? What is this advanced com array a walky-talky?

It would make the most sense to have these auras act a lot like the Fleet Buffs. That is to say that they would simply apply to all team mates regardless of where they were. If that is too much then it would be nice if at the very least they had a 10KM sphere of influence.

lan451

Yeah the 5km thing is too small. Personally I'd like it if my team members got the buff no matter where they were AND others not on my team got the buff out to 10km. That way my immediate team benefits more from my buffs but anyone inside my "combat radius" would pick it up as well. That would be useful for 20 man content like Starbase Defense.

aveimperator

Considering 10km is both weapons range and the range of a lot of support abilities (although some are limited to 5km), I think they should benefit allies up to 10km out.

milanvorius

5km is too tiny. The game moves too fast for that kind of maneuvering, the total 10km diameter can be traversed in few seconds by escorts and is too difficult for slower turning cruisers to maintain.

I have enough problems getting within 10km of an escort for healing them. The game spreads out, and the cruiser commands are not that significant to be a problem at 10km.

sevmrage

Either that or co-ordinate with other Avenger captains to keep their distances and all activate the same thing, thus increasing the range of influence.

momaw

In PVE,

I'm going to pitch a horse shoe at the other goal post and say: Range is fine. It's annoying to fly in CLOSE formation, but staying within 5km doesn't seem like a huge problem if your team is working as a team. And if the battle gets more spread out, I don't see why it is so inconceivable to have more than one cruiser. The point of the command array is to help cruisers be an anchor around which things happen, and the range is fine for that.

stofsk

Possible solution to this is that the base remains at 5km, but the range can be boosted when we get communication arrays as a gear option for cruisers.

Because you know that is what will happen.

freedumb4eva

I agree that 10km would be more suitable, if not an auto-proc to all group members.

How advanced can this communication array actually be if it only goes 5km?

If I can transfer shield strength 9.99km to an ally, why can't the command array proc at least 10km?

momaw

A better line of inquiry: Why are players so averse to teamwork. When I use Scattering Field, I can reduce your incoming hull damage by somewhere around 40% (or somewhat less if you already have heavy armor). All you have to do is get close to my carrier. But it never happens. Every time I see an ally explode while I have a Scattering Field up, which they were not inside, I am baffled. And that's an ability that has a flashy visual effect that SHOWS you where to be to get free cake.

I'm nudging toward thinking this is a pure laziness problem. People don't want to have to keep track of their team mates, they want free cake delivered to them while they Kirk around on their own.

:rolleyes:

baudl

it is primarely a buff for the cruiser itself than the whole team, that is probably the idea behind the rather small 5km radius.

freedumb4eva

momaw wrote: »

A better line of inquiry: Why are players so averse to teamwork. When I use Scattering Field, I can reduce your incoming hull damage by somewhere around 40% (or somewhat less if you already have heavy armor). All you have to do is get close to my carrier. But it never happens. Every time I see an ally explode while I have a Scattering Field up, which they were not inside, I am baffled. And that's an ability that has a flashy visual effect that SHOWS you where to be to get free cake.

I'm nudging toward thinking this is a pure laziness problem. People don't want to have to keep track of their team mates, they want free cake delivered to them while they Kirk around on their own.

:rolleyes:

You are assuming a lot about other players when in reality their reasoning is probably much different than what you assume.

For me, it is often difficult to stay within a range bubble in an escort because when I use AP Omega, AP Alpha, or Evasive Maneuvers, it is nearly impossible to maintain defensive speed while turning in a 4 km radius around a moving target. I should also mention that the best solution to avoiding incoming fire is to get out of the primary firing arc of an enemy vessel. Usually that won't be in a bubble radius.

Perhaps the range of your ability should also be increased due to the way the game mechanics work.

By all means continue to think negatively about your fellow players, though. Keep rolling those eyes.

freedumb4eva

baudl wrote: »

it is primarely a buff for the cruiser itself than the whole team, that is probably the idea behind the rather small 5km radius.

I don't believe that's entirely true.

A cruiser should not need to chase down a friendly escort in order to provide a buff. The cruiser should be able to maintain adequate distance from faster ships while still being able to apply their new role bonus, imo.

hasukurobi

momaw wrote: »

In PVE,

I'm going to pitch a horse shoe at the other goal post and say: Range is fine. It's annoying to fly in CLOSE formation, but staying within 5km doesn't seem like a huge problem if your team is working as a team. And if the battle gets more spread out, I don't see why it is so inconceivable to have more than one cruiser. The point of the command array is to help cruisers be an anchor around which things happen, and the range is fine for that.

momaw wrote: »

A better line of inquiry: Why are players so averse to teamwork. When I use Scattering Field, I can reduce your incoming hull damage by somewhere around 40% (or somewhat less if you already have heavy armor). All you have to do is get close to my carrier. But it never happens. Every time I see an ally explode while I have a Scattering Field up, which they were not inside, I am baffled. And that's an ability that has a flashy visual effect that SHOWS you where to be to get free cake.

I'm nudging toward thinking this is a pure laziness problem. People don't want to have to keep track of their team mates, they want free cake delivered to them while they Kirk around on their own.

:rolleyes:

If you are being realistic then you know that it is incredibly hard for anyone to stay within 5 KM of your ship. You are going to be a slow turning and moving Cruiser and your Escort friends and Science Ships are going to quickly leave you in their dust. Also Escorts MUST stay moving in order to be effective and they will go out of 5 KM in the blink of an eye.

If you are in a Carrier then your ability to be mobile and keep close to others on your team is also extremely difficult especially while dealing with enemies who are very large (Cubes) or fast. Like I said in my OP: STO is NOT a good game for flying in formation. It is extremely difficult to do in reality.

orangeitis

I vote 20km. Not enough to cover the entire battleground, but more than enough to cover the immediate group.

stofsk

I'm telling you guys, there will be a gear slot for cruisers and one of the mods will be '[Range] - your cruiser commands are now useful'

ziggyds

next lockbox prolly new trait to extend the range

mustafatennick

mattjohnsonva wrote: »

We tested the turn rate buff, strategic manoeuvring, in Kerrat last night. None of our ships within the 5km range saw any change to turn rate and only a slight increase in flight speed, so as it is currently it doesn't seem to work anyway.

The weapon drain resistance buff definitely works and works a treat

The range of the coverage is fine the buff is designed to buff the player primarily

The whole point of this design was to promote teamplay as most pve players don't know what this means in the slightest, if your going to work as a team you should be within 5 of each other anyway

If your zooming about user epte and omega being all Rambo about things then that's your own lookout to give it team wide would be op

autumnturning

Q: Which Cruisers are even capable of making a 360 turn within 5 km of the starting point?

A: Hardly any of the Tier 4 and 5 ones.

momaw

autumnturning wrote: »

Q: Which Cruisers are even capable of making a 360 turn within 5 km of the starting point?

Every single one. Try setting your throttle lower or even throw it into reverse.

aiden089

are the cruiser abilities on all cruisers or just the Avenger?

smokeybacon90

They will be on all Cruisers and Battlecruisers eventually, but Cryptic are holding out, likely because they want to milk Avenger purchases a little more.

gpgtx

momaw wrote: »

Every single one. Try setting your throttle lower or even throw it into reverse.

reverse turning is a cruisers best friend

fraghul2000

Originally Posted by momaw View Post
In PVE,

I'm going to pitch a horse shoe at the other goal post and say: Range is fine. It's annoying to fly in CLOSE formation, but staying within 5km doesn't seem like a huge problem if your team is working as a team. And if the battle gets more spread out, I don't see why it is so inconceivable to have more than one cruiser. The point of the command array is to help cruisers be an anchor around which things happen, and the range is fine for that.

You must not have played too many PvE events to really consider anything you said to be realistic.

starswordc

Speaking as someone who PVEs in a Fleet Avenger, the only time I've ever been covered by another Avenger's arrays (obviously assuming there's another one in the instance) is either when everyone's at the spawn point, or for brief periods in specific environments like the Crystalline Entity event. At the velocities ships typically operate at, 5 km is almost worthless. Never mind the fact that justifying it as a communications array makes it make even less sense: in space, 5 km is a ludicrously small distance.

milanvorius

starswordc wrote: »

Speaking as someone who PVEs in a Fleet Avenger, the only time I've ever been covered by another Avenger's arrays (obviously assuming there's another one in the instance) is either when everyone's at the spawn point, or for brief periods in specific environments like the Crystalline Entity event. At the velocities ships typically operate at, 5 km is almost worthless. Never mind the fact that justifying it as a communications array makes it make even less sense: in space, 5 km is a ludicrously small distance.

I agree it is too small, but what if we made it part of the tanking ability of the cruiser. Lets say it is given 20km, but starts out very weak, maybe even a slight negative. As it survives longer it charges, like singulatiry powers, and becomes more intense. I long for the time when my cruiser is actually considered a primary target, not just something to shoot at once the other ships are gone. This has the added bonus of making non-A2B builds valuable for cruisers as they may need heals more.

Edit: also the reason 5km is worthless is, really the 10km is pretty small but you are pursuing a single target. Now you have to be pursuing your target as it moves around, AND you are tethered to the cruiser. The aura needs to be larger than weapons fire range, at least the defensive ones, because if a ship is running and needs shield help it is going to need to get distance not just flee to the nearby big boy.

misterde3

Since this is a support ability, why not make its range increase depending on AUX?

*ducks*

autumnturning

misterde3 wrote: »

Since this is a support ability, why not make its range increase depending on AUX?

I was just about to suggest making the range 5 km base, but then adding 0.05 km per 1 AUX ... so at 100 AUX you have a 10 km radius range, and at 130 AUX you've got a 11.5 km radius range. Sounds simple enough, and it would give Cruiser Captains a reason/excuse to care about AUX power (beyond using it as a Dump Stat).

momaw

Or how about a compromise: Command array buffs are automatically applied to allies if they come into range, and the buff lingers on allies for 10 seconds if they move out of range. So it still forces some topography to the battle (which is good), but it makes the range limit a little more forgiving and fuzzy.

urniv821

momaw wrote: »

A better line of inquiry: Why are players so averse to teamwork. When I use Scattering Field, I can reduce your incoming hull damage by somewhere around 40% (or somewhat less if you already have heavy armor). All you have to do is get close to my carrier. But it never happens. Every time I see an ally explode while I have a Scattering Field up, which they were not inside, I am baffled. And that's an ability that has a flashy visual effect that SHOWS you where to be to get free cake.

I'm nudging toward thinking this is a pure laziness problem. People don't want to have to keep track of their team mates, they want free cake delivered to them while they Kirk around on their own.

:rolleyes:

Well.. I know I stay inside the bubble if I see one. Heck.. when I play my sci I try to get close to whoever is fighting to force them in my bubble lol.

I am not in a carrier though, so its easier for me to maneuver around to whomever needs the buff.

Get in here NOW!

hasukurobi

momaw wrote: »

Or how about a compromise: Command array buffs are automatically applied to allies if they come into range, and the buff lingers on allies for 10 seconds if they move out of range. So it still forces some topography to the battle (which is good), but it makes the range limit a little more forgiving and fuzzy.

That would certainly be better than what we have now but honestly there is no reason to just have the range be much longer or nearly infinite across the map. I do agree that it will likely come as a Lock Box Trait or some item later but it is just a bit silly that this "Support" ability is going to be largely just a self buff due to being range limited too much for the gameplay as it currently stands.

grendelthewise

I have been using them on my Excelsior and I actually like the benefits of them. I am happy that they weren't only limited to the Avenger class ship.