Avebger weps question

bogarf

Ive heard cannons nees to get closer for optimal dps and i like the idea of dual beam banks having better range and arc. Are dual beams viable on an eng avevger for stfs? Looking at 4 beams ant torp front 2 turrets and cuting beam back. Thankyou

bogarf

I know i cant hit top dps but i want to pull my weight lol

tenkari

I dont see why not, the Avengers got the turn to keep DBB's on target compared to normal cruisers or even sci ships.

momaw

Dual beams are not only completely viable, they often out-perform dual heavy cannons unless you invest heavily in cannon tactical abilities.

Though I hasten to point out that beams suffer damage reduction over range, they just don't suffer as MUCH as cannons do. Both weapons should, ideally, be fired at as close a range as you can manage.

talaj

I run mine with 4 DBBs & the omega torp up front, and I love it. Tac boff seating is also more flexible, since you've got beam-boosting abilities at ensign lvl.

mustafatennick

momaw wrote: »

Dual beams are not only completely viable, they often out-perform dual heavy cannons unless you invest heavily in cannon tactical abilities.

Though I hasten to point out that beams suffer damage reduction over range, they just don't suffer as MUCH as cannons do. Both weapons should, ideally, be fired at as close a range as you can manage.

This is about the worst two statements I've ever seen

DHC's will always outperform any other weapon regardless of BOFF abilities

No beam suffers from distance to damage drop off

momaw

A challenger appears.

mustafatennick wrote: »

This is about the worst two statements I've ever seen

Unnecessary hyperbole.

I conducted tests to verify my statements. The first test was a synthetic benchmark against Starbase 234, a stationary target which makes a great target dummy.

Your first point,

No beam suffers from distance to damage drop off

Is the easier to disprove. In the first experiment set I approached the station at 1/4 impulse starting from 10km up to 1km while firing a dual beam bank which was my only mounted weapon. At the start of the test, maximum range, hits were between the mid 700's and low 800's. At the conclusion of the test, minimum range, hits were consistently over 1000.

Conclusion: beams suffer damage falloff from range; approximately 25% damage is lost at maximum range.

DHC's will always outperform any other weapon regardless of BOFF abilities

I did two parts on this. The first part was a synthetic test against Starbase 234. I performed the same experiment as before, flying slowly toward the base while firing continuously. This time I had both a dual beam and a dual heavy cannon equipped.

Looking at the graph of hits over time, it's easy to see how cannons have a vastly more damage falloff over range but that beams are not immune. (Not sure why weapon power took a hit right at the end there, but it affected both weapons equally)

Beam hits:
http://momaw.kikaimegami.com/sto-testing-beams.png

Dual heavy cannon hits:
http://momaw.kikaimegami.com/sto-testing-cannons.png

Cannons scored a total of 44,961 damage. Beams scored a total of 45,781 damage. (In order to correct the anomalous spike, I substituted the bogus 9K hit for an average of the other hits in that specific volley)

The second part was a practical test in a "live" mission, where I mounted a variety of weapons and played normally. The mission lasted 573 seconds, and this is the average damage per second that each weapon system delivered:

http://momaw.kikaimegami.com/sto-testing-practicaltest.png

As you can see, dual beams outperformed dual heavy cannons when cannon tactical abilities were not used. In fact, the DHC was competing neck and neck with a beam array. Because the weapon has a small fire arc, and because it is horrendously affected by range, the practical damage of an unaugmented DHC is nothing like what you would expect from its listed stats.

Please duplicate my experiments so that we can compare notes and have a discussion based on facts.

mustafatennick

momaw wrote: »

A challenger appears.



Unnecessary hyperbole.

I conducted tests to verify my statements. The first test was a synthetic benchmark against Starbase 234, a stationary target which makes a great target dummy.

Your first point,


Is the easier to disprove. In the first experiment set I approached the station at 1/4 impulse starting from 10km up to 1km while firing a dual beam bank which was my only mounted weapon. At the start of the test, maximum range, hits were between the mid 700's and low 800's. At the conclusion of the test, minimum range, hits were consistently over 1000.

Conclusion: beams suffer damage falloff from range; approximately 25% damage is lost at maximum range.



I did two parts on this. The first part was a synthetic test against Starbase 234. I performed the same experiment as before, flying slowly toward the base while firing continuously. This time I had both a dual beam and a dual heavy cannon equipped.

Looking at the graph of hits over time, it's easy to see how cannons have a vastly more damage falloff over range but that beams are not immune. (Not sure why weapon power took a hit right at the end there, but it affected both weapons equally)

Beam hits:
http://momaw.kikaimegami.com/sto-testing-beams.png

Dual heavy cannon hits:
http://momaw.kikaimegami.com/sto-testing-cannons.png

Cannons scored a total of 44,961 damage. Beams scored a total of 45,781 damage. (In order to correct the anomalous spike, I substituted the bogus 9K hit for an average of the other hits in that specific volley)

The second part was a practical test in a "live" mission, where I mounted a variety of weapons and played normally. The mission lasted 573 seconds, and this is the average damage per second that each weapon system delivered:

http://momaw.kikaimegami.com/sto-testing-practicaltest.png

As you can see, dual beams outperformed dual heavy cannons when cannon tactical abilities were not used. In fact, the DHC was competing neck and neck with a beam array. Because the weapon has a small fire arc, and because it is horrendously affected by range, the practical damage of an unaugmented DHC is nothing like what you would expect from its listed stats.

Please duplicate my experiments so that we can compare notes and have a discussion based on facts.

I have neither the time or the patience to go through all that Trollope and I'm not that great with numbers neither do I care all that much

A dhc build will out-damage a beam build on single targets all day long your argument of wether one would with or without BOFF/captain powers is null and void purely because anyone who doesn't use tactical BOFF powers really isn't playing the game all that well and it's their own fault

You proved me wrong on the damage distance drop off and I stand corrected however I fear that it was all in vane as a 100 damage difference in the long run and grand scheme of things isn't going to make or break anyone's build and if there picking down to that much damage then they really need to remember that we come here to play and have FUN I worry a lot of people nowadays forget this

momaw

mustafatennick wrote: »

I have neither the time or the patience to go through all that Trollope and I'm not that great with numbers neither do I care all that much

...

A dhc build will out-damage a beam build on single targets all day long your argument of wether one would with or without BOFF/captain powers is null and void purely because anyone who doesn't use tactical BOFF powers really isn't playing the game all that well and it's their own fault

You seem to be making the mistake of equating the two highlighted things. You seem to think that every ship is a DHC based ship and that the only tactical abilities people use are Rapid Fire and Scatter Volley. I believe this is the basis of why you don't see the point I am trying to make.

mustafatennick

momaw wrote: »

...



You seem to be making the mistake of equating the two highlighted things. You seem to think that every ship is a DHC based ship and that the only tactical abilities people use are Rapid Fire and Scatter Volley. I believe this is the basis of why you don't see the point I am trying to make.

Being the runner of a fleet regent and a scimitar both running beams both kicking out about 25k dps through out an estf I'm well aware there are other builds

Like I say I don't really play that much to worry about what point your making so I guess in a way I am missing the point

thissler

I'm not going to read all that stuff either.

Mostly because I know he's right.

I think, if I recall from the weapon tester that I downloaded, and from other graphs people had made that the following is true about DHC's vs Beams and DBB's.

All else being equal they are at parity at 7k. Inside that DHC's rule, outside that beams rule. DHC DO lose much more than beams, and much faster as well. They just start so darn high that they are better all they way out to 7k.

http://starship-weapons-calculator.software.informer.com/

I think that should still be accurate.

Anyways, OP, of course you can do that. Taking for granted that you know at least the basics.

Oh and the avenger is so agile you could use zero arc weapons for stf. Seriously.

bogarf

Cheers for all the replys, ive found them helpfull so thankyou again. One final question, is there a good energy type to use? From what i can find disrupter/plasma are good. Am using phaser at the mo