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Is STO stuck in the transition era?
daedalus304
Member Posts: 1,049 Arc User
I've been reading a lot into STO articles and such, and I know this is all dependant on what occured years ago when cryptic was given the license to work in such a small timeframe.
but
people have been calling Star Trek Online a Transition Era MMO that needed to be phased out quick or it'd be living a short life.
basically Transition Phase means the transition from the old MMORPG style game to the new age style MMORPG, where the three class system, point and click, etc have been phased out.
and the more I think about it, the more I see it's right.
STO is stuck in this era, it keeps trying to de-balance the frame between old and new.
but the old 3 class system is still here, the point and click combat is still here, the old engine limitations is still present, limiting real growth.
the story and content may seem new, but it's all the same as it was back in the begining days only inow there are shortcuts to the stuff that akes things look good, different little tricks to make everything look new.
one analogy I found was the Gmod Analogy, you can add as many mods and as many interesting things as you'd like, it's still limited by its rugged source engine.
so the biggest question I can ask.
does anyone think Cryptic should get a Do over with this? taking what assets they already have, and putting STO on a newer engine which can take some good upgrades over the year?
or should we wait until this short wick has burned out?
but
people have been calling Star Trek Online a Transition Era MMO that needed to be phased out quick or it'd be living a short life.
basically Transition Phase means the transition from the old MMORPG style game to the new age style MMORPG, where the three class system, point and click, etc have been phased out.
and the more I think about it, the more I see it's right.
STO is stuck in this era, it keeps trying to de-balance the frame between old and new.
but the old 3 class system is still here, the point and click combat is still here, the old engine limitations is still present, limiting real growth.
the story and content may seem new, but it's all the same as it was back in the begining days only inow there are shortcuts to the stuff that akes things look good, different little tricks to make everything look new.
one analogy I found was the Gmod Analogy, you can add as many mods and as many interesting things as you'd like, it's still limited by its rugged source engine.
so the biggest question I can ask.
does anyone think Cryptic should get a Do over with this? taking what assets they already have, and putting STO on a newer engine which can take some good upgrades over the year?
or should we wait until this short wick has burned out?
Post edited by daedalus304 on
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The Cryptic engine is limited, and the devs can barely make it do what they want. I can't imagine they'd be able to handle a different outsourced one, or even a new version of their old one!
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I have never, ever played an mmo (and I have played many) that has had so much downtime, and so many bugs/balance issues..
granted, some of the things they have claimed they couldn't do they actually did (very very very very rare, but yes I do give them credit where it is due).. the list of can and can nots is pretty overwhelming in the can not side..
and as far as a 3 class system, the biggest problem is it is two small.. all the more popular games, and the up and coming games are being more successful because they give you more than 3 options of game play (ie, classes).. star trek screwed the pooch in this area.. canon trek (ie the show) gave them many more classes than they rolled with.. such as medical, security (tac and security should be separated cause they are actually two different things), command officers, etc..
im always of the feeling that the more diversity in a game, the better, and cryptic has done everything they possibly can to undiversify sto (ie, letting klinks have sci ships, letting feds have cloaks and carriers, mixing what used to be faction specific consoles).. the only real instance I can think of now that is diverse is the romulan singularity core (and its just a matter of time before they really mess trek up and let the feddies get singularity cores.. lol)..
cryptics engine is old.. the pretty hard failure of neverwinter shows that no one wants to play on an old engine.. it is limited, it is basic, and unfortunately it traps the players in rotation of specific content.. (ie, enter system, engage enemy, beam down, scan stuff, engage ground enemies, beam up, finish space enemy off, warp out)..
the new age of mmo gaming is coming with everquest next.. that game is gonna change how mmo's run, not sto and their single player approach to massively multi player game (lol)..
/ok done..
Aside from the engine the other transition elements are all about mentality and can be fixed so long as the Devs wish to do so. We just have to convince them of it. Firstly, ability bloat. Newer MMOs are phasing out 20+ abilities and ability spam combat in favor of fewer abilities with greater depth (GW2). STO could really benefit from this and make the game feel more like the cinematic, tall ship combat we were promised in the beginning. Secondly is reputation and grind. Dailies are an ancient practice. Even current reputation grinds in other MMOs go off of a weekly progress so the game isn't asking a person to find time every day to progress.
Further still, a lot of the in-development MMOs are finding other ways to engage their players without grinding, whether that be for gear or reputation. Star Trek was never about these things. I really feel that if any game could engage the player without such pains it could be STO. Imagine investing your play time because you're actually having fun and not because the only way of getting that item you like the looks of, or progressing your character, is grinding 4 hours a day every day.
A long time ago there was talk of an exploration system. That's what Star Trek is about. Exploring. Honestly it felt like it was going to be a Star Trek version of Spore. That's endless content, engaging.. if they could only devote the resources to make it work. That alone would bring this out of a transition era game and back into the spotlight as no other MMO could boast such a feature.
On top of that a territory conquest system is another means of giving engaging content to players. This could mix in PvP and PvE faction warfare. Really what I am getting at here is that the true way to please a player is to give them the ability to create their own fun. Sandbox it up, STO. As was said above, EQN is the future of MMOs.. Star Trek could have used that philosophy/tech so bad..
I liked Spore a lot, but honestly, the gameplay and content didn't hold people that long. MMO's have to have longer legs, and the legs of Spore were mainly in its creature and vehicle creators, along with mission creation in the expansion.
I think STO has a lot of elements that try to push it to the better side of the transition gap, like its shooter mode. But the ship combat is pretty awesome as it is, and if it holds people and keeps the game working, why try to 'fix' it by changing it altogether?
I don't think STO has to worry too much about the 'transition era'. It's unique enough that it stands out from other MMO's, and even things like the 3-class system don't really conform to the fighter/mage/rogue of old-school RPG's. You can prognosticate all you want, but STO still works, and nothing on the horizon is both so similar and so revolutionary to unseat it as 'obsolete'.
Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Old Age? Transition Era? What in the Name of Kor, Kang and Koloth have you been smoking?!?!
I have always wondered why this game was so "soft" about sector space combat. I honestly thought it would be the battle ground for PVP. If I'm in my JHDC and flying through Beata Ursae, I'd most likely have to fight my way through it against some Federations players/ships in the Sector (or help my fell Jem'hadar attck ship allies fight some federation ships). But if I fly my JHDC through Romulan space (like Alpha Centauri block), I should be fighting my way through a hord of Romulan ships. Since it's their turf, I shouldn't be able to causally cruise right through it. Wouldn't this immersion make the game more challenging? Instead of being so easy to get to point A & B.
I know many won't agree, but it's just an idea. Why keep PVP in a stupid arena when in actuality all of space is a battle ground for PVP? How often did Klingon's cruise through Federation controlled space without someone questioning their presence?
I find this thread interesting, because I feel that the game is stuck in a rut. I think that's because it has no direct STO competition. If their was another Star Trek game out their, this would force Cryptic to "step their game up". I also agree with the comment that they've build so much upon this engine/system that a major change could cause it all to come crashing down and TRIBBLE off a lot of people.
If I wanted to be ganked every time I entered space I'd go play EVE.
^
I agree.
And already the EVE comparisons are made. Do you lose the ship? Do you lose the skillpoints? How about consoles, weapons, boffs? No you don't. All you lose is 10 seconds and bragging rights. I wish people would stop comparing 2 completely different games.
Rant aside, you would think PvP would be more prevalent in a game set during a huge KDF/Federation war. It certainly screams territory control and fleet battles to me - kinda like Planetside 2 with spaceships.
Of course, one problem being that due to the overwhelming Federation playerbase the KDF even with their Romulan allies would get stomped in minutes.
Alas, sandbox would be too much of a stretch I think.
I also hear you on the lack of competition. Even with Star Citizen and EVE there is no competition for any of them, they all occupy their own little niche corners.
Sure there is room for improvement (ground combat and pvp come to mind for me), but compared to most other mmos out there, even when looking at newer ones, it's ok.
I haven't seen this to be true. No matter which mmo you look at, no matter how big the company behind it is, there are always going to be bugs, things that are unbalanced and unexpected downtime and a lot of them are doing far, far worse than cryptic is.
Also every forum community of every mmo out there tends to think that the company running their game is the worst and that other games are much better off. Just a matter of perspection.
This. I lost interest in Star Citizen once I learned they were partially emulating EVE's PVP structure and the boards became infested with EVE fanboys.
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You won't loose anything like EVE. It'll just be a fight, they can even program it so that you'll have to PVP 3-5 ships before they make you immune from any other PVP fight in that sector. That way win or loose to those 3-5 PVP ships both players will get something from it. They can even drop loot and reward the winner with extra dill, skill points or fleet marks. So that'll make the fight more appealing.
If you're a skilled PVPer then the program will find 3-5 PVPers that's within your bracket and you'll have to fight them off before you get to your destination. Something as simple as that isn't really "Eve" it's reality. Even gang members don't go waltzing through another gang's territory without some conflict arising.
No, no and no. I hate PvP. Serious, I am terrible at it, and I don't find it enjoyable. And I certainly don't find getting attacked by every stray ship that is between me and my next objective fun.
Forced PvP is no way to make a game viable. I guarantee if you force people to PvP who don't want to, you will lose an enormous amount of playerbase.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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The holy trinity is alive and well in many MMOs even new ones and it will remain for years to come. STO is losing nothing by having three classes especially since they don't fit neatly into the trinity. You can slap your tactical officer into a science ship or build your science officer to be a tank in ground combat. The creation is flexible, the play is flexible and while certain builds are better at certain tasks than others, it's not like a Rogue in your standard fantasy game taht can only ever be a damage dealer and nothing else.
To those who have mentioned the exploration system -- yes please more of this.
Notice how all the negative comments about PvP are exaggerated hyperbole.
Never played Swtor right?
There are so many MMO?s not only in the classical meanings which are thousend times more broken and terrible ... but only in cryptic games it is so much crying for doom and so on i really dont understand it
And on unrestricted PvP. NOOOOOOOOO! Star Trek is not some Hobbesian nightmare!
Sorry...but this is NOT true. All my PvP gear is basic and "free" in STO... haven't spent money on anything from C store or real hard cash upgrades. I did grind Rep systems but that's about it. Still I rule and do better than most people in PvPs. Its not the color of money what makes you better but how you use the tools/techniques available to you.
Smart players do so much better than those who just want to have a "I win" button.
And it is NOT a hyperbole to say that with a system like that, especially in the first few months you WILL inevitably get ganked as soon as you enter Sector Space and/or don't have a Transwarp Ready or aren't fast enough with changing Instances as soon as you see an enemy player headed for you, if you see them at all...
Yes it is hyperbole. You may have threaded enough caveats into that to allow for a more reasonable interpretation, but the tone and implication is exaggerated.
"Ganked". The word is pejorative and implies that the aggressor did something illegal or exploitative.
"Inevitably... ...as soon as you enter". You don't know this. This is not even the case in Eve.
Yes, eventually someone will destroy you. So what? It cost you nothing. You respawn, unscathed and continue on your merry way.
Seriously people. Get a grip.
2. Yes I know this... People are A**holes... they will always be... give them the tools and they WILL use them to their utmost ability to disrupt other Players... anyway and anytime they can...
3. And what do you gain by destroying innocent bystanders that are neither equipped nor willing for PvP other than the satisfaction that you just disrupted someones Gameplay?
Oh and it does cost me... a very rare and precious commodity... TIME... all the time it costs me to fight some drooling PvP-Junkie...
And don't tell me "Just don't do it" then again, I must ask you: What do you gain by destroying me on my way to more PvE that couldn't be satisfied by the current AI?
PvP has to be confined to Areas with only very very few or absolutely no PvE Elements, so no one, not willing to participate is forced to participate...
Which makes it a pejorative term. And constitutes an exaggeration, as you implied that it will be the only experience a player will have in the game. Both of these notions are false.
Are you not people? Are you now and forever an a**hole, who given the tools, WILL use them to your utmost ability to disrupt other players... anyway and anytime you can?
If, not, then... more hyperbole.
There are no innocent bystanders flying armed ships through a warzone attacking my artificial allies and compatriots. They are enemy combatants and they came looking for battle. I get the satisfaction of providing them that battle. And hopefully, I get a good fight in return. A fight much more interesting and exhilarating than any current AI can provide.
Time you should probably be spending on your children anyway. Or doing some charity work. Or watching My Little Pony re-runs (friendship is magic, you know).
Your time is no more precious than mine. So don't waste it by being an ill equipped and unwilling slug, who won't attempt to defend themselves while puttering around a warzone.
Too late.
Gain from you? Apparently nothing.
No it does not need to be confined in that way. You simply need to be a little more considerate and a lot less greedy, in thinking that any and every PvE element in the game must be accessible on the terms you dictate. There are other people's feelings to consider here, you know?
Once upon a time, "Enemy Signal Contacts" would actually pursue nearby players and suck them into a battle.
People didn't like being dumped into a Red Alert when they were just trying to get from point A to point B. Making progress through the game storyline requires a lot of travel from point A to point B; it was annoying at best. And that was just with NPC's.
Imagine what trying to travel through Sector Space would be like as a low-level character if you're getting dumped into a Red Alert by every troll you try to pass.
There's a reason why we don't have PvP in Sector Space and I'm glad of it. That said, I wouldn't mind having a few areas that were dangerous to travel through, as long as there was another path if you didn't want to take the risk.
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