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Currency proliferation concerns
stirling191
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
With the addition of three new currencies in S8 (voth implants, voth marks and dyson comms) we're now going to have to juggle on a daily basis a dozen or so different currencies. Given the current design atmosphere at Cryptic, that number appears to be heading steadily upwards.
Why is this necessary? Wasn't the whole point of the dilithium changeover supposed to be so that players wouldn't be drowning in currencies or being pigeon-holed into running a handful of missions to earn rewards.
Why also are some of these currencies (BNPs and impants for example) not treated as currencies and instead take up inventory space?
Why is this necessary? Wasn't the whole point of the dilithium changeover supposed to be so that players wouldn't be drowning in currencies or being pigeon-holed into running a handful of missions to earn rewards.
Why also are some of these currencies (BNPs and impants for example) not treated as currencies and instead take up inventory space?
Post edited by stirling191 on
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That was the stated reason. But if you look at what actually happened, both the conversion from marks to dilithium and the conversion from Borg data chips to omega marks were in fact used to remove large amounts of players accumulated currency from the game.
With the initial implementation of dilithium this was done by converting our currency to dill and only providing us waist full ways to spend it for many months.
When they implemented omega marks it was more direct. At that time I had many hundred Borg data chips, which due to my own pessimism I converted to dilithium before cryptic implemented the new system.
Its a good thing I did as if I had allowed my stockpile to be converted into the reward crate I would have lost out on thousands and thousands of dill.
I'm well aware of the history on the subject and the related shenanigans that ensued (removal of dilithium from STFs anyone?). I'm trying to set that aside for now and actually get a reasoned response as to why Cryptic is diverging so far from it's "stated goals" with each passing release.
At the present rate we're looking at hitting 20 or so different currencies in play by the time S10 launches. I'm certain I'm not the only one who finds that prospect entirely ludicrous.
Currencies are media of exchange. Marks (as well as BNPs and the new voth cybertech) exist solely to be traded for other things.
Expertise (though arguably a currency unto itself at this point), weapons and consumables have uses other than being turned in for projects.
Are you really arguing that something being used in a transaction, that exists solely to be used in transactions, isn't a type of currency?
It would be nice if a dev answered your question directly (I also agree with your comments). But,...we all know that's not how things operate in the STO forum.
So in other words, Data Samples, Particle Traces, and Unreplicateable Materials are currencies as well since they are the same thing as Marks. Sorry, but I don't buy it. These are just project inputs. Since it is a project input and there is no form of transaction involved, then it is not a currency. Currencies are something that is used by a store while Marks could be considered as favors or other intangible products used for doing a project.
1. I'm concerned about the proliferation of stuff we need to store in our inventories and banks. We already have Borg Neural Processors. Now, you are adding Dyson Joint Command Commendations and Voth Cybernetic Implants. Why can't these be a type of mark? I believe that Borg Neural Processors were originally Elite Omega Marks. What happened to that design?
2. We now have embassy provisions, dilithium mine provisions, and spire provisions in the replicator. As you add new fleet holdings, the list will only grow. I can't think of a reason why these need to be separate provision types. Replacing them with a single type of fleet holding provision would simplify the fleet system and reduce space in the replicator window.
The Dyson Joint Command Commendation has a listing in the "Assets" tab so it won't take a spot in your inventory. The only thing we have to worry about is the Voth Cybernetic Implants taking a spot.
This is the first time I have heard of Elite Omega Marks and I have been around since before the game launched.
I don't need to convert them to dil as I've plenty of that via other means. And I don't need any more rep items. My efforts and rewards are effectively locked away and I can't turn my well earned rewards into something useful.
Then there's the 5000+ rom marks and a few hundred nuke marks. The list and amount of unused rep marks will continue to grow too.
As people max out reps and with more and more ways to earn dil for the day. All these marks are being wasted and not being used to reward the player.
We need a way to use these various disparate currencies used for reps to either be converted via projects into other rep currencies as well as into EC and/or FMs/FCs directly.
Even better make them account bound!
Or, ya know, just have one rep currency that all reps accept inputs with. Rep commendations and rep marks.
In fact why not just 1 rep currency, equivalent to a BNP/commendation. and everything rep wise is bought/leveled up using those?
Want a deflector, 30 reps pls. want a consumable thingy, 1 rep for 10 thanks. body armor for 10 reps. etc etc.
Players can then play what they want and like and rank up all their reps playing the content they like.
Worried about players not playing certain content? Then make the content better.
If it's good they'll keep coming back to it (as I do with STFs), if they're just in it to grind rep, they'll do so until T5 then stop playing it anyway.
Besides, players can get bored with some content and will play the new flashy missions anyway so I don't see much of an argument for the lock in disparate rep currencies create.
Marks can all be just removed and make it an expertise automaticaly applied to whatever rep and even fleet holdings. when X amount is applied the 20 hour cooldown kicks in before more can be applied. This removes the marks currency and the stupid rep projects. For buying things all rep projects completion(the automatic one) and fleet donations get you a new curency that replaces all the marks as curreny. This new one can be used to buy any rep item now and future and fleet store items. How the experiance applies to rep and fleet could be it will apply to matching content first and if that goes into cooldown it will apply to all the remaining evenly until all are filled at wich time it goes into overflow storage to be applied when cooldowns are complete.
0 player input, players can do what they want to increase rep but doing events that will apply to X rep or fleet first before any other to increase one or another faster. No need for rep projects at all, and fleet marks could be removed from the fleet projects and apply automaticaly at the amount Cryptic figures each member should be able to donate per day.
Doing that will make players happy and reduce currency to 5.
1. Lobi for special Lobi store items.
2. Dilithium for the same use we have now.
3. EC for player to player purchase/sales.
4. GPL for the odds and ends in that store as well as doffing.
5. The marks and FC replacement for purchasing rep and fleet goodies.
#4 and 5 could also be merged and just have 1 through 4. and now no more new currencies ever.
Atleast thats my 2 EC's.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Congratulations on making entirely irrelevant distinctions. Currencies are used for trade. Sometimes that means one to one sales and conversions, sometimes that means barter. By either definition, marks are currencies.
None of which changes the fact that the number of currencies, tokens and trinkets used by the ever expanding reputation and holding systems continue to balloon at an exorbitant rate. An expansion that runs directly counter to what has been espoused to the playerbase as Cryptic's overarching design philosophy.
If I recall correctly, when the Omega reputation was beta on Tribble, Borg Neural Processors were Elite Omega Marks. Before it went live on Holodeck, Cryptic changed them from a type of mark to a type of item.
Honestly, I agree with Cryptic's x-events for x-marks for x-rep system. Marks don't take up space, and it doesn't make as much sense to just pile one's existing currency into maxing a rep, but never actually play the related content. If you're too lazy to grind your old marks into dil and play some of the new missions, well, that's not really a leg to stand on in my opinion. Sure, when you have oodles of marks in a T5 rep, being able to use them in another rep sounds like quite the windfall. But that doesn't mean it's good for everyone or the game in general.
The currency simplification unified currencies that needlessly separated various marks of gear and would always go obsolete when you leveled up. No matter how many rep currencies there are in the future, it'll always be pretty clear which ones go with each rep, and they're always of some value in dilithium. So there isn't really a need for more unification, IMO. People are taking Cryptic's stance on one issue and interpreting it as an idealogical position with no connection to present circumstances, then criticizing them for not following that ideology.
TL;DR: The devs are not hypocritical for thinking currency simplification of redundant exploration marks is good but unifying differently-themed rep marks is not.
Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I understand this, but it doesn't really explain certain design decisions.
1. Why are Borg Neural Processors and Voth Cybernetic Implants items instead of marks? They are character-bound, so you can't trade them anyway. They just take up inventory space.
2. Why are there three types of provisions in the replicator: embassy, dilithium mine, and spire? They all cost the same. It just takes up space in the replicator window.
1) Because BNPs or VCIs are used for specific requisitions. They're meant to be a supplementary reward, a pat on the back for beating harder difficulty missions. Sometimes you get alot and you can increase the amount of Dil you earned or it can go for a really rare item.
2) I actually kinda agree with you it doesn't make sense for us to have one for each holding. The closest thing I can think of is they might be worried someone could accidentally put the ones they planned for the embassy into the Mine or something.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
Yes, but why do they need to be items? Why can't they be tracked in the "Asset" tab of your inventory window along with the various types of marks, EC, dilithium, and GPL?
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Why not make rep work like a rep system and not a store. You kill the bosses or finish the missions, you get a reputation award. Works like an experience bar. You get a couple items from the mission (like the old EDC) for purchasing items. Ditch the dilithium prices from the reputation stores. Ditch the commodities. You level your tiers by doing missions and completing them. You buy your gear by getting 1 to 5 tokens that are the currency for the store of that system. This is the most cumbersome reputation system I have ever seen and it's massively expensive in resources. You grind for these factions for days and weeks to earn the ability to grind for their store?
The entire system is this way. The fleet system as well but it is even worse. You bust your butts for a year or more to unlock tier 5 to get what? You simply unlock the privilege to pay real money for modules to buy a ship from the Zen Store that you have paid for a thousand times over in grind time. Those should be a fleet provision as well or should not even exist at all. If you want to sell ships, sell them. I would flat out buy the fleet ships I want from your store and gladly walk away from this grind system. If you own the lower version and want a discount, by all means, grind out your fleet tiers and get the ship for 1 module instead of 4 but don't make us wait to tier 5 to unlock a "special" cash store for full price. I'd rather pay full price right now from the regular store to be frankly honest. And before you say it, yes you can buy them for EC but SOMEONE paid cash for the one you bought on the exchange. Any way you want to water it down, someone paid for your privileged purchase.
There should be no cost for any of this gear besides marks/tokens, including dilithium, once unlocked OR there should not be the massive social cost of dilithium for fleet holdings. Use it in one or the other but not both. If you want dilithium used in the stores, remove it from fleet projects. If you want massive amounts (millions!) for fleet projects, remove it from the stores (fleet store and reputation stores - leave the dilithium store as it is as it's not an unlocked tier level).
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I think what is lost in translation is playing a game and working a game. The rewards should come from playing. That being said, the content for Season 8 is fun. I had a blast on Tribble the past few days. I look forward to this going live. It's fun, creative, engaging, and a new twist not seen here before. The new reputation system is vastly better than the current ones. I would cheer to see the others converted to something similar because it would be a massive improvement to them. The open world feel and mass play are a very fresh and exciting facet new to STO. And the visual presentation that greeted me when I stepped out literally received a "Whoa!" over voice chat with my fleetmates when I entered the zone. I can definitely say the expected "same old same old but with dinosaurs" was immediately smashed to bits at a glance. This is light years from the same old!
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