Obviously, Scotty used his Plot Multitool that allows an engineer to combine technologies that are completely incompatible, then Geordi somehow got his hands on it. Wouldn't be surprised if Scotty had a Q ancestor.
Oh, don't forget T'Rul or whoever installed the cloak on the Defiant.:rolleyes: Or whoever installed it on the Galaxy-X Enterprise from AGT. Damn it Jim, everyone in Star Trek is a Q.
Now about a completely logical, simple explanation like this:
Cloaking is a form of shielding. You can plug a cloaking device into any ship that can use deflector shields and it works. That's why ships that cloak have to drop shields, because the deflector grid is used by the cloaking device. The Scimitar in Nemesis could keep her shields up while cloaked because she had an additional deflector grid due to her secondary shielding.
Oh my god, it makes sense.:eek:
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Oh, don't forget T'Rul or whoever installed the cloak on the Defiant.:rolleyes: Or whoever installed it on the Galaxy-X Enterprise from AGT. Damn it Jim, everyone in Star Trek is a Q.
Now about a completely logical, simple explanation like this:
Cloaking is a form of shielding. You can plug a cloaking device into any ship that can use deflector shields and it works. That's why ships that cloak have to drop shields, because the deflector grid is used by the cloaking device. The Scimitar in Nemesis could keep her shields up while cloaked because she had an additional deflector grid due to her secondary shielding.
Oh my god, it makes sense.:eek:
Hmmm, many, many clever canon-based reasons why these ships should have cloak.
Speaking as a Wells pilot, allow me to say...oh god no.
It's nothing to do with canon, or whether they should have it, or if so how.
It's just plain and simple play balance.
You don't want my Wells cloaking into the middle of your group, hitting temporal inversion and having my evil way with you.
Unless you nerf the powers these ships do have, you'd be making the most OP ships ingame.
And I like the powers i do have.
I can make do with the mask energy field power off my adapted maco set and the mini cloak from the Romulan rep system.
It doesnt matter how logical the idea of a temporal ship cloak is......the resulting ship would make JHACs look like Mirandas.
Hmmm, many, many clever canon-based reasons why these ships should have cloak.
Speaking as a Wells pilot, allow me to say...oh god no.
It's nothing to do with canon, or whether they should have it, or if so how.
It's just plain and simple play balance.
You don't want my Wells cloaking into the middle of your group, hitting temporal inversion and having my evil way with you.
Unless you nerf the powers these ships do have, you'd be making the most OP ships ingame.
And I like the powers i do have.
I can make do with the mask energy field power off my adapted maco set and the mini cloak from the Romulan rep system.
It doesnt matter how logical the idea of a temporal ship cloak is......the resulting ship would make JHACs look like Mirandas.
Okay, now would you please explain a few things to me?
1) What is is the difference between sacrificing one console slot for a cloaking device to fly into the middle of an enemy group compared to getting Mask Energy Signature and/or just racing there with Evasive Maneuvers?
2) I have to admit I don't have a Manheim Device (and doubt I ever will) however, I do have a Tipler Cylinder, and I have no idea how I would have my evil way with anyone who is stuck in place and untargetable while I'm stuck running backwards, unable to do anything and allegedly untargetable too (allegedly because the Borg still seem to find ways to blow me up while going backwards).
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Cryptic was just lazy with the temporal ships. Since Fed doesn't cloak they couldn't put the effort into making the KDF one do so.
Actually, they put considerably more effort into the temporal ships than any other ships.
Remember when they made 3 skins for each ship rather than just 1? Well, 3 is greater than 1. In fact, it's roughly 3 times bigger. So the art time had to put in 3 times the work. Consider that 4 of the 6 were (afaik) scratch built, that's even more effort there.
You are of course suggesting that they were lazy to not build 3 individual different ships of each class. This begs they obvious question: Why didn't you expect them to build 3 totally different Galor Classes?
As I, and several others have said: The 6 temporal ships are 2 ships. They were kind enough to let you have a ship that fits your faction rather than making them all Wells class.
BTW... Scotty took a stolen cloaking device and made the Enterprise cloakable in like 5 minutes. Seems pretty canon that non-KDF ships could cloak just by a plug'n'play console
I've always liked pointing out the episode of DS9 where Quark has a cloaking devices the size of a tube of Pringles, which can apparently be fitted into any ship in mere seconds, and allow it to fly mere meters from Cardassian war ships totally undetected.
Which leads me to another obvious question: Did you know, scenes there entirely for plot points are not necessarily applicable to other criteria? Again, usually for plot reasons. As I'm sure you remember, there are dozens of Deus Ex Machina plot points done on a whim that would have rendered many episodes, or even entire arcs, meaningless.
___________________________ The day will not save them. And we own the night.
Sooo.... Tipler Cylinder or the Manheim Device aren't uber-tech that they'd feel should have self-destructed? You kinda invalidated your own argument.
I did pretty much signal there was a logical incongruity with the word 'inexplicable'.
TBH, the fact that it's a ship with time-travel capabilities should make transforming the whole ship into hot plasma a top priority for the temporal agents flying the thing. There shouldn't be anything left to salvage.
Be that as it may, we do have temporal ships, they are here to stay, and unless Cryptic drastically changes their minds they will never have cloaking devices even though logically at least two out of the three should have had it and there's a plausible reason for the Fed version to get it too.
So entertaining myself with ill-fitting rationales is about all I got. I understand that the ships are supposed to be balanced around their temporal abilities and not for cloaking. Thus, no cloak.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
So entertaining myself with ill-fitting rationales is about all I got. I understand that the ships are supposed to be balanced around their temporal abilities and not for cloaking. Thus, no cloak.
Okay, how does that work? I have a character with a Galaxy-X, leave the cloak console in the bank and equip another stat-booster instead. Am I gimping myself because the ship is balanced around the cloaking device? What if someone buys an Avenger? The ship is balanced around a cloaking device but doesn't have one. Is the ship bad unless you get a Defiant retrofit or Galaxy-X for the cloak? The way I see it the cloaking device console is balanced for occupying a console slot.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Okay, now would you please explain a few things to me?
1) What is is the difference between sacrificing one console slot for a cloaking device to fly into the middle of an enemy group compared to getting Mask Energy Signature and/or just racing there with Evasive Maneuvers?
er..seriously? Ok.
Cloak is much more powerful. 15% bonus damage on decloak, plus being actually invisible so not being specifically defended against.
Mask energy signature is fine, outside 5km. And evasive maneuver just gives your enemy a faster moving target in a game where targetting just reuires a click.
Cloak also has a plethora of other tactical options.
2) I have to admit I don't have a Manheim Device (and doubt I ever will) however, I do have a Tipler Cylinder, and I have no idea how I would have my evil way with anyone who is stuck in place and untargetable while I'm stuck running backwards, unable to do anything and allegedly untargetable too (allegedly because the Borg still seem to find ways to blow me up while going backwards).
Ahhh, you're thinking the wrong temporal inversion field. not the temporal backstep that comes with the Wells, but the timeship-specific awesomeness you get with the lobi store temporal warfare set.
Basically, it slows everyone else down by half while speeding you up accordingly.
You want me to uncloak in the middle of you then hit you with an undefendable power that slows you down while speeding me up?
Point is, cloak is not the way to go for timeships. We have a range of powers available to us that, if added to a cloak...or god forbid enhanced battle cloak.....would be op.
As I see it, the story reasonings aren't getting us anywhere. There can be all sorts of reasons one can come up with for why the temporal ships don't have cloaks, this is a universe where omniscient beings like Q can break all the rules with the snap of a finger after all, just as there are equally valid reasons why they should have cloaks.
What I'd like to see is a discussion from a game play perspective. The entire Romulan faction is designed for cloak abilities. That's a fact. Go look at the Romulan ships sub forum and the consensus is there are better ships or at least more cost effective ones to fly because the cloak less temporal ships don't bring anything significant to the table a warbird doesn't. There's a reason there are so many threads asking about cloaks on these ships, as Romulan ships there's an expectation they would have one.
So the only thing holding us back is the wells copy paste issue. I'm not sure why the devs would go through the trouble of making unique ship skins and not expect people to want these unique skins to work for their faction, but now that they have why base all 6 ships off the wells/m?bius? Why not base the wells off the rmor? Why punish 4 for the sake of 2? And if the issue is balance I don't see why we can't have a special out of combat 'temporal cloak' that puts a 30 sec cool down on the tipler cylinder and Manheim device (not that anyone should be using it...) on decloaking it's not like these ships with cloaks become monsters compared to the existing warbirds.
As I see it, the story reasonings aren't getting us anywhere. There can be all sorts of reasons one can come up with for why the temporal ships don't have cloaks, this is a universe where omniscient beings like Q can break all the rules with the snap of a finger after all, just as there are equally valid reasons why they should have cloaks.
What I'd like to see is a discussion from a game play perspective. The entire Romulan faction is designed for cloak abilities. That's a fact. Go look at the Romulan ships sub forum and the consensus is there are better ships or at least more cost effective ones to fly because the cloak less temporal ships don't bring anything significant to the table a warbird doesn't. There's a reason there are so many threads asking about cloaks on these ships, as Romulan ships there's an expectation they would have one.
So the only thing holding us back is the wells copy paste issue. I'm not sure why the devs would go through the trouble of making unique ship skins and not expect people to want these unique skins to work for their faction, but now that they have why base all 6 ships off the wells/m?bius? Why not base the wells off the rmor? Why punish 4 for the sake of 2? And if the issue is balance I don't see why we can't have a special out of combat 'temporal cloak' that puts a 30 sec cool down on the tipler cylinder and Manheim device (not that anyone should be using it...) on decloaking it's not like these ships with cloaks become monsters compared to the existing warbirds.
Because if there was a *Temporal Cloak* the Tholians stripped it, and if there was regular cloak either the Tholians stripped it or the Ferengi who rebuilding them took them to make their favorite thing in the galaxy...profit!
Ferengi would make more profit selling them off to some high bidder than handing cloaking devices out on ships. The Romulan ships are re-built with a M/AM core just like the Fed and KDF ones...KDF doesn't even have cloak on all Klingon ships.
Romulan cloak is obviously tied into their Singularity core, I highly doubt they're going to pay for a ship only to tear it apart and rebuild it with a Singularity core when they could of just built a fresh new ship.
There...there are good enough reasons.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Cloak is much more powerful. 15% bonus damage on decloak, plus being actually invisible so not being specifically defended against.
15% bonus damage on decloak for a few seconds (okay, you could extend it a bit with Remans now) and no recloak until you leave combat vs. whatever bonus a stat-boosting console would give you all the time.
Mask energy signature is fine, outside 5km. And evasive maneuver just gives your enemy a faster moving target in a game where targetting just reuires a click.
5 km are all you need to get close enough and Evasive Maneuvers also lets your defense skyrocket. What I'm saying is that there are plenty of way to get into the middle of an enemy group and fire naughty AoEs.
Ahhh, you're thinking the wrong temporal inversion field. not the temporal backstep that comes with the Wells, but the timeship-specific awesomeness you get with the lobi store temporal warfare set.
Basically, it slows everyone else down by half while speeding you up accordingly.
Okay thanks, I read up on it on STOwiki. The set bonus for using it on a temporal vessel seems to be that it speeds you up, the slowing effect works for everybody.
You want me to uncloak in the middle of you then hit you with an undefendable power that slows you down while speeding me up?
Just as much as I want anyone to decloak next to me and hit me with an undefendable power that slows me down. There are scarier things a battle cruiser or escort can do to you than speed themselves up.
Point is, cloak is not the way to go for timeships. We have a range of powers available to us that, if added to a cloak...or god forbid enhanced battle cloak.....would be op.
Sorry, still not seeing why that would be OP, and no one is asking for enhanced battle cloak, only for the console the Defiant and Galaxy-X have.
Because if there was a *Temporal Cloak* the Tholians stripped it, and if there was regular cloak either the Tholians stripped it or the Ferengi who rebuilding them took them to make their favorite thing in the galaxy...profit!
Ferengi would make more profit selling them off to some high bidder than handing cloaking devices out on ships. The Romulan ships are re-built with a M/AM core just like the Fed and KDF ones...KDF doesn't even have cloak on all Klingon ships.
Romulan cloak is obviously tied into their Singularity core, I highly doubt they're going to pay for a ship only to tear it apart and rebuild it with a Singularity core when they could of just built a fresh new ship.
There...there are good enough reasons.
You mean the Romulans who built the cloaks that were installed on the Enterprise and the original Defiant could not do so again because obviously they had to tear apart each ship and install a singularity core?:rolleyes:
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Ahhh, you're thinking the wrong temporal inversion field. not the temporal backstep that comes with the Wells, but the timeship-specific awesomeness you get with the lobi store temporal warfare set.
Basically, it slows everyone else down by half while speeding you up accordingly.
You want me to uncloak in the middle of you then hit you with an undefendable power that slows you down while speeding me up?
Point is, cloak is not the way to go for timeships. We have a range of powers available to us that, if added to a cloak...or god forbid enhanced battle cloak.....would be op.
That's kind of a specious argument considering you can already do that with a warbird since the set is universal, you just won't get the speed up bonus that comes with equipping it to a temporal ship. Still, the temporal warfare set is already balanced around how mediocre the items are outside of the console.
Comments
Oh, don't forget T'Rul or whoever installed the cloak on the Defiant.:rolleyes: Or whoever installed it on the Galaxy-X Enterprise from AGT. Damn it Jim, everyone in Star Trek is a Q.
Now about a completely logical, simple explanation like this:
Cloaking is a form of shielding. You can plug a cloaking device into any ship that can use deflector shields and it works. That's why ships that cloak have to drop shields, because the deflector grid is used by the cloaking device. The Scimitar in Nemesis could keep her shields up while cloaked because she had an additional deflector grid due to her secondary shielding.
Oh my god, it makes sense.:eek:
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Hmmm, many, many clever canon-based reasons why these ships should have cloak.
Speaking as a Wells pilot, allow me to say...oh god no.
It's nothing to do with canon, or whether they should have it, or if so how.
It's just plain and simple play balance.
You don't want my Wells cloaking into the middle of your group, hitting temporal inversion and having my evil way with you.
Unless you nerf the powers these ships do have, you'd be making the most OP ships ingame.
And I like the powers i do have.
I can make do with the mask energy field power off my adapted maco set and the mini cloak from the Romulan rep system.
It doesnt matter how logical the idea of a temporal ship cloak is......the resulting ship would make JHACs look like Mirandas.
Okay, now would you please explain a few things to me?
1) What is is the difference between sacrificing one console slot for a cloaking device to fly into the middle of an enemy group compared to getting Mask Energy Signature and/or just racing there with Evasive Maneuvers?
2) I have to admit I don't have a Manheim Device (and doubt I ever will) however, I do have a Tipler Cylinder, and I have no idea how I would have my evil way with anyone who is stuck in place and untargetable while I'm stuck running backwards, unable to do anything and allegedly untargetable too (allegedly because the Borg still seem to find ways to blow me up while going backwards).
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
As a general rule, I think they've stuck to that pretty well. The only one that break it that springs to mind is the Vo'Quv...
That I would like
Actually, they put considerably more effort into the temporal ships than any other ships.
Remember when they made 3 skins for each ship rather than just 1? Well, 3 is greater than 1. In fact, it's roughly 3 times bigger. So the art time had to put in 3 times the work. Consider that 4 of the 6 were (afaik) scratch built, that's even more effort there.
You are of course suggesting that they were lazy to not build 3 individual different ships of each class. This begs they obvious question: Why didn't you expect them to build 3 totally different Galor Classes?
As I, and several others have said: The 6 temporal ships are 2 ships. They were kind enough to let you have a ship that fits your faction rather than making them all Wells class.
I've always liked pointing out the episode of DS9 where Quark has a cloaking devices the size of a tube of Pringles, which can apparently be fitted into any ship in mere seconds, and allow it to fly mere meters from Cardassian war ships totally undetected.
Which leads me to another obvious question: Did you know, scenes there entirely for plot points are not necessarily applicable to other criteria? Again, usually for plot reasons. As I'm sure you remember, there are dozens of Deus Ex Machina plot points done on a whim that would have rendered many episodes, or even entire arcs, meaningless.
The day will not save them. And we own the night.
I did pretty much signal there was a logical incongruity with the word 'inexplicable'.
TBH, the fact that it's a ship with time-travel capabilities should make transforming the whole ship into hot plasma a top priority for the temporal agents flying the thing. There shouldn't be anything left to salvage.
Be that as it may, we do have temporal ships, they are here to stay, and unless Cryptic drastically changes their minds they will never have cloaking devices even though logically at least two out of the three should have had it and there's a plausible reason for the Fed version to get it too.
So entertaining myself with ill-fitting rationales is about all I got. I understand that the ships are supposed to be balanced around their temporal abilities and not for cloaking. Thus, no cloak.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Okay, how does that work? I have a character with a Galaxy-X, leave the cloak console in the bank and equip another stat-booster instead. Am I gimping myself because the ship is balanced around the cloaking device? What if someone buys an Avenger? The ship is balanced around a cloaking device but doesn't have one. Is the ship bad unless you get a Defiant retrofit or Galaxy-X for the cloak? The way I see it the cloaking device console is balanced for occupying a console slot.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
er..seriously? Ok.
Cloak is much more powerful. 15% bonus damage on decloak, plus being actually invisible so not being specifically defended against.
Mask energy signature is fine, outside 5km. And evasive maneuver just gives your enemy a faster moving target in a game where targetting just reuires a click.
Cloak also has a plethora of other tactical options.
Ahhh, you're thinking the wrong temporal inversion field. not the temporal backstep that comes with the Wells, but the timeship-specific awesomeness you get with the lobi store temporal warfare set.
Basically, it slows everyone else down by half while speeding you up accordingly.
You want me to uncloak in the middle of you then hit you with an undefendable power that slows you down while speeding me up?
Point is, cloak is not the way to go for timeships. We have a range of powers available to us that, if added to a cloak...or god forbid enhanced battle cloak.....would be op.
What I'd like to see is a discussion from a game play perspective. The entire Romulan faction is designed for cloak abilities. That's a fact. Go look at the Romulan ships sub forum and the consensus is there are better ships or at least more cost effective ones to fly because the cloak less temporal ships don't bring anything significant to the table a warbird doesn't. There's a reason there are so many threads asking about cloaks on these ships, as Romulan ships there's an expectation they would have one.
So the only thing holding us back is the wells copy paste issue. I'm not sure why the devs would go through the trouble of making unique ship skins and not expect people to want these unique skins to work for their faction, but now that they have why base all 6 ships off the wells/m?bius? Why not base the wells off the rmor? Why punish 4 for the sake of 2? And if the issue is balance I don't see why we can't have a special out of combat 'temporal cloak' that puts a 30 sec cool down on the tipler cylinder and Manheim device (not that anyone should be using it...) on decloaking it's not like these ships with cloaks become monsters compared to the existing warbirds.
Because if there was a *Temporal Cloak* the Tholians stripped it, and if there was regular cloak either the Tholians stripped it or the Ferengi who rebuilding them took them to make their favorite thing in the galaxy...profit!
Ferengi would make more profit selling them off to some high bidder than handing cloaking devices out on ships. The Romulan ships are re-built with a M/AM core just like the Fed and KDF ones...KDF doesn't even have cloak on all Klingon ships.
Romulan cloak is obviously tied into their Singularity core, I highly doubt they're going to pay for a ship only to tear it apart and rebuild it with a Singularity core when they could of just built a fresh new ship.
There...there are good enough reasons.
15% bonus damage on decloak for a few seconds (okay, you could extend it a bit with Remans now) and no recloak until you leave combat vs. whatever bonus a stat-boosting console would give you all the time.
5 km are all you need to get close enough and Evasive Maneuvers also lets your defense skyrocket. What I'm saying is that there are plenty of way to get into the middle of an enemy group and fire naughty AoEs.
Battlecloak maybe. But the normal cloaking device console?
Okay thanks, I read up on it on STOwiki. The set bonus for using it on a temporal vessel seems to be that it speeds you up, the slowing effect works for everybody.
Just as much as I want anyone to decloak next to me and hit me with an undefendable power that slows me down. There are scarier things a battle cruiser or escort can do to you than speed themselves up.
Sorry, still not seeing why that would be OP, and no one is asking for enhanced battle cloak, only for the console the Defiant and Galaxy-X have.
You mean the Romulans who built the cloaks that were installed on the Enterprise and the original Defiant could not do so again because obviously they had to tear apart each ship and install a singularity core?:rolleyes:
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
That's kind of a specious argument considering you can already do that with a warbird since the set is universal, you just won't get the speed up bonus that comes with equipping it to a temporal ship. Still, the temporal warfare set is already balanced around how mediocre the items are outside of the console.