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What is the best non-escort for a Tac captain?

hypnosnakehypnosnake Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited October 2013 in Federation Discussion
Greetings!

I was tooling around in my escort tonight and started to think about another ship that I might like. So, a simple and straight forward question, really:

What is the best ship for a Tactical captain without having an escort?

It's a little general, I know, but I'm quite curious. Destroyers, obviously, are good for a Tac guy with their better turning than a cruiser and such.

So, what's your opinions and why?

Thanks for your time!
Post edited by hypnosnake on
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Comments

  • mustafatennickmustafatennick Member Posts: 868 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    For pve and fooling around in Kerrat or the ques you can't go past the fleet excelsior and fleet assault cruiser

    For team pvp a tac in a cruiser doesn't work

    My favourite is my aux2bat fleet assault, tough hard Hitting and quite nimble plus it looks great! it's god mode in pve(doesn't take much) and in pvp it's funny watching all these alphas strikers running off because they failed yet again
    ----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====---- :cool:
  • tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,673 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Avenger Battle Cruiser. It's like a Destroyer, but with even more fire power and tanking ability, but with slightly less turn. Still plenty of turn for DHCs for PvE (up to 5 fore :eek: ) if you desire, and can easily use builds meant for fleet excelsior and fleet assault cruiser if you want a beam boat.
  • sevmragesevmrage Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    You could do quite well in an Avenger.

    *facepalm*

    I hate that I keep saying that.

    There's not a lot of ways you can be the most useful in a cruiser, and take it from a tac captain who's a die-hard cruiser guy.

    You can run a beam boat, perhaps, or play at escort in a cruiser with cannons and turrets, but you'll never be more effective than if you're in an escort, with the Avenger being a really, really close second.

    Throwing it out there, if you really wanna fly something for the hell of it and risk getting laughed at, cover a Galaxy X in DCs/DHCs and turrets and drive it like you would at a jousting tournament. Consider Tetyron for the anti-shield proc and if you can kill a shield facing, Spinal Lance them.

    Make sure you have backup, though, as it is, you need support yourself, you won't be much more than firepower support in that arrangement.
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  • admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,561 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Excel, Sovie, Gal X
  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    sevmrage wrote: »
    You could do quite well in an Avenger.

    *facepalm*

    I hate that I keep saying that.

    There's not a lot of ways you can be the most useful in a cruiser, and take it from a tac captain who's a die-hard cruiser guy.

    You can run a beam boat, perhaps, or play at escort in a cruiser with cannons and turrets, but you'll never be more effective than if you're in an escort, with the Avenger being a really, really close second.

    Throwing it out there, if you really wanna fly something for the hell of it and risk getting laughed at, cover a Galaxy X in DCs/DHCs and turrets and drive it like you would at a jousting tournament. Consider Tetyron for the anti-shield proc and if you can kill a shield facing, Spinal Lance them.

    Make sure you have backup, though, as it is, you need support yourself, you won't be much more than firepower support in that arrangement.

    The Excel' with a single cannon/turret combo , compared to escorts, is a very forgiving ship. Its no escort, and isn't the dps king, but it can still contribute fire and take damage without being a ponderous tug.
  • hypnosnakehypnosnake Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I appreciate the responses so far!

    So, from what I can gather from yas, the good ones so far are:

    Avenger Battle Cruiser
    Fleet Assault Cruiser
    Fleet Advanced Heavy Cruiser (Excelsior)
    Galaxy X

    I'll make an addendum to the post as well. *chuckles* First, I've never PvPed and never plan to, so it's definitely a PvE focus. And, second, I actually don't have any access to Fleet ships, so, sadly, I can't get those ones.

    What about the Temporal Destroyer or the Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer? Are those very good as well?
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    The temporal destroyer is an escort and the tal shiar destroyer is a pretty cool cruiser.

    The problem is that these are usually way out of reach for the average player. Paying 75 dollars for a test drive isn't in most people's agendas
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

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  • hypnosnakehypnosnake Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    dahminus wrote: »
    The temporal destroyer is an escort and the tal shiar destroyer is a pretty cool cruiser.

    The problem is that these are usually way out of reach for the average player. Paying 75 dollars for a test drive isn't in most people's agendas

    A fair enough point. They're both well out of reach for me, but, over (probably a long) time, one could probably scrape together enough EC to buy one off of the Exchange. Both of those ships sit at around 70m or so, I believe.
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Correct, 70mil ec=70dollars, give or take.

    I am currently saving for a black Mobius temporal destroyer which requires the aeon shuttle. Mobius and wells.


    210 million later...i hate having "special snowflake" syndrome...lol
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

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  • hypnosnakehypnosnake Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    dahminus wrote: »
    Correct, 70mil ec=70dollars, give or take.

    I am currently saving for a black Mobius temporal destroyer which requires the aeon shuttle. Mobius and wells.


    210 million later...i hate having "special snowflake" syndrome...lol

    Wow, damn. heh Good luck with that!

    I can't even grasp the concept of 210 million EC...


    Hmm. The question continues though!

    Does anyone have any other opinions and thoughts on good destroyers/non-escorts for a Tactical captain?
  • unboundinfernounboundinferno Member Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Realistiacally, any ship with 3+ Tac Consoles can function reasonably well for a Tac captain trying to get *enough* DPS to work in PvE.

    Science ships are tricker than Cruisers as opposed to what Escorts can do, but can also work if you work with their strengths.

    A recent though occurred on the forums and holds some merit of making a Science ship into a Torpedo boat, using Grav Well and Tractor Beams to hold a target while drainign Shields through Tachyon Beam and possibly Tetryon Turrets to slam what's left with Torpedoes. Not ideal, but it holds enough merit in how it can wreak havoc despite Weapon Power but instead benefit from higher Aux to boost that and still boost Torpedo damage enough to really pack a wallop. Just will require a hefty investment into purple Projectile DOFFs for recharge boosts.

    Other than that, take your pick of a Cruiser - but you'll want to invest heavily into RCS to improve turning, or figure out how to work Aux2Dampner or Omega in. Dual Beam Banks or Single Cannon/Turret would be the best option for damage unless you invest a ton into Fleet parts and pricy Universal Consoles to irk every ounce out.
  • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    hypnosnake wrote: »
    Does anyone have any other opinions and thoughts on good destroyers/non-escorts for a Tactical captain?

    Here's the thing, Destroyers are a sub-branch of escort. Asking for a non-escort destroyer is asking for something that doesn't really exist.

    In terms of non-escort DPS heavy ships for the Feds, you've pretty much already got the greatest hits lined up: Avenger, Fleet Sovereign/Regent, Excelsior. All three have the capacity to do some very serious pew pew. They also render the Gal-X entirely obsolete.

    The only other ships are the Monbosh and the Jemmy Dreadnought, but they're non-Fed ships and cost a pretty penny for newer folks to snag off the exchange.
  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    stirling191 wrote: »
    Here's the thing, Destroyers are a sub-branch of escort. Asking for a non-escort destroyer is asking for something that doesn't really exist.
    Disagree, sort of. If you look at superclasses like escort/cruiser/sci ship, then yeah escorts encompass frigates and destroyers, but if you look at ship sizes and factors like turn-rate and hull-strength, you see that there are basically 4 categories, which include frigates, escorts, destroyers, and cruisers. There is kind of a fifth category above cruiser that includes the 5 turn-rate ships like carriers and D'Deridex and dreadnoughts, but they are actually very close to cruisers in overall stats.
    [img]http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x57/UrsusMorologus/MechWarrior Online/Catapult_K2 sig.jpg[/img]
  • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    ursusmorologus wrote: »
    Disagree, sort of. If you look at superclasses like escort/cruiser/sci ship, then yeah escorts encompass frigates and destroyers, but if you look at ship sizes and factors like turn-rate and hull-strength, you see that there are basically 4 categories, which include frigates, escorts, destroyers, and cruisers. There is kind of a fifth category above cruiser that includes the 5 turn-rate ships like carriers and D'Deridex and dreadnoughts, but they are actually very close to cruisers in overall stats.

    While those differentials do exist, they're more than outweighed by the similarities from things like console slots, boff seating and weapon loadouts.
  • hypnosnakehypnosnake Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Yeah, I was going to say something fairly similar to Ursus...

    I kind of look at destroyers as something that stands on their own, really. They tend to be tougher than escorts and closer to cruisers, but not quite. Escort/Cruiser territory.

    Anyways though!

    @unboundinferno

    I suppose that's true. So long as there's enough Tactical slots, it should work. That opens the options a bit, though I think Avenger might be where I'm leaning now.

    @Stirling

    Yeah, my resources are definitely NOT good enough to try and get a hold of a JH Dreadnought and a Monbosh. *chuckles* Trying to get enough Lobi crystals together is a bloody feat.


    All around though, it sounds like if you can't get a hold of the Fleet versions of the Assault or Excelsior, the Avenger would probably be the best bet. I'm definitely considering that now.
  • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    hypnosnake wrote: »
    Yeah, my resources are definitely NOT good enough to try and get a hold of a JH Dreadnought and a Monbosh. *chuckles* Trying to get enough Lobi crystals together is a bloody feat.


    All around though, it sounds like if you can't get a hold of the Fleet versions of the Assault or Excelsior, the Avenger would probably be the best bet. I'm definitely considering that now.

    Something else to consider: the Regent. While mostly outclassed by the Avenger now, it has the same boff seating as the Fleet AC (the Fleet AC is actually the Fleet version of the Regent, not the Sovereign). You'll lose out on the 4th tac console, but everything you can do with an FAC you can do in a Regent.

    Plus you get the wide angle quantum launcher, which for beam boats means you can quite readily drop some kinetic damage on things without losing your broadside.
  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    stirling191 wrote: »
    While those differentials do exist, they're more than outweighed by the similarities from things like console slots, boff seating and weapon loadouts.
    Oh... Frigates are the smallest sized ship (model size), and encompass Defiant, B'Rel (smaller than other BOPs), T'varo, Corvette, Aquarius, Fed Sci Vessel (Nova/Rhode Island), and a couple of others. Only the Defiant is strictly tactical, because of the rigidity of the layout. Weapon hard-points are 4/3, 4/2, and 3/3. Turn-rate ranges from 15 to 23. Hull strength ranges from 22.5k (B'rel retro) to 30k (Defiant retro) [non-fleet]. Basically anything that in that size is going to be 30k down (non-fleet) and 15+ turn-rate, that is the frigate class.
    [img]http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x57/UrsusMorologus/MechWarrior Online/Catapult_K2 sig.jpg[/img]
  • hypnosnakehypnosnake Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    stirling191 wrote: »
    Something else to consider: the Regent. While mostly outclassed by the Avenger now, it has the same boff seating as the Fleet AC (the Fleet AC is actually the Fleet version of the Regent, not the Sovereign). You'll lose out on the 4th tac console, but everything you can do with an FAC you can do in a Regent.

    Plus you get the wide angle quantum launcher, which for beam boats means you can quite readily drop some kinetic damage on things without losing your broadside.

    I never even noticed that one...

    That IS actually really good looking. The wide angle torpedo launcher would be pretty helpful.

    Thanks for showing that one off! I think that one is going to make the decision a little bit trickier now. *chuckles*
  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    hypnosnake wrote: »
    I was tooling around in my escort tonight and started to think about another ship that I might like. So, a simple and straight forward question, really:

    What is the best ship for a Tactical captain without having an escort?
    Which escort are you flying? And do you want something that's a little different, or very different?
    [img]http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x57/UrsusMorologus/MechWarrior Online/Catapult_K2 sig.jpg[/img]
  • kintishokintisho Member Posts: 1,040 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    admiralq1732 wrote: »
    Excel, Sovie, Gal X

    Yes, Yes, NOOOO!!!! (Gal-X = failboat that turns like a broken down tractor)

    Avenger YES (epic win P2W) fleet version after z store purchase (then its worthwhile)
  • hypnosnakehypnosnake Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    ursusmorologus wrote: »
    Which escort are you flying? And do you want something that's a little different, or very different?

    Oh, just a fleet escort retrofit I got a while back. It's good, I like it and it's fun, but wanting something very different.

    This is why the Avenger or the Assault Cruiser Retrofit is tempting me. I had been considering trying to get a Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer before, but the price is pretty prohibitive on that one and trying to get lucky on a lockbox is hard when you're not lucky at all. heh

    Definitely leaning toward the Avenger now though. I like a lot about it, so I'm definitely thinking I'm going to go that way. Fleet ships are out of reach and I'd sooner be struck by lightning than get a ship out of a lockbox, so yeah. heh

    I do really appreciate everyone's suggestions and comments though. You guys have even given me a few ideas for stuff I might like to try with my Engineer as well. hehe
  • shar487ashar487a Member Posts: 1,292 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I picked up the Fleet Avenger... it's easily one of the most offense-oriented ships out there that can actually soak up punishment. I have mine currently spec'd for cannons +CSV, but the new Command Mode features lets you dynamically change modes from DPS to tank to Escort-level mobility every few seconds.

    And... it can use a cloak :D
  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    hypnosnake wrote: »
    Oh, just a fleet escort retrofit I got a while back. It's good, I like it and it's fun, but wanting something very different.

    This is why the Avenger or the Assault Cruiser Retrofit is tempting me. I had been considering trying to get a Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer before, but the price is pretty prohibitive on that one and trying to get lucky on a lockbox is hard when you're not lucky at all. heh

    Definitely leaning toward the Avenger now though. I like a lot about it, so I'm definitely thinking I'm going to go that way. Fleet ships are out of reach and I'd sooner be struck by lightning than get a ship out of a lockbox, so yeah. heh
    Yeah its a nice ship, tactical destroyer basically, buff the turn with helmsman and a tachyokinetic console and it will be very very good.

    The fed Heavy Escort Carrier is another good candidate for a tactical destroyer, bigger and slower than most escorts, plus it has a hangar bay.

    After that you get into lockbox territory. The Jem'Hadar Heavy Escort Carrier is another good destroyer, and more engi focused so it is more different.

    BTW, the federation escort is frigate-sized and stats. Not much difference between it and the straight escorts though.
    [img]http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x57/UrsusMorologus/MechWarrior Online/Catapult_K2 sig.jpg[/img]
  • milanvoriusmilanvorius Member Posts: 641 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    The Avenger is a good ship and would serve you well. Might be an indication of the future that to make cruisers more useful they need to be as much like escorts as possible. But it will serve you well with being a tac captain. Its frontal weapons are ideal for alpha strikes.

    I have thought the Vesta could be fun with a tac too, all the sci holds for your APA, too bad TachBeam is useless. Go down fighting, get your use of it then pop the bubble before you die, heal and go back to pew pew.
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  • admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,561 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    kintisho wrote: »
    Yes, Yes, NOOOO!!!! (Gal-X = failboat that turns like a broken down tractor)

    Avenger YES (epic win P2W) fleet version after z store purchase (then its worthwhile)

    GAl X is still my prefered STF ships. you just need to build her right
  • shar487ashar487a Member Posts: 1,292 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    admiralq1732 wrote: »
    GAl X is still my prefered STF ships. you just need to build her right

    The Gal-X needs a real spinal lance, as opposed to the beam overload flash-bulb that it sports now...
  • unboundinfernounboundinferno Member Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    A Tac Capt - building the Gal-X around the Spinal Lance - will make that thing worth it.

    But only once every like three minutes.
  • admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,561 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    shar487a wrote: »
    The Gal-X needs a real spinal lance, as opposed to the beam overload flash-bulb that it sports now...

    it's accuratacy needs a buff no doubt. but my Goldberg does very well. I will say though my RA Sovies is a beast. and why I haven't gotten the stupid Regent.
  • matchstick606matchstick606 Member Posts: 233 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    D'kora, adapted battle cruiser, fleet excel/sovie

    and on the off chance you may have one the breen warship isn't bad.
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  • mscowboymscowboy Member Posts: 231 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Go with a beam boat on excelsior, regent or avenger. If you're tired of sitting with your nose to the enemy and unloading cannons from a fast little escort, you probably won't want to switch to sitting with your nose to the enemy and unloading cannons from a bigger, slower battlecruiser, so the avenger as a cannon ship would be a poor idea here.

    For something very different: try a Vesta torpedo boat.
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