Science ships are not the problem, science skills are. the skills need major buffing so you dont have to specialize in one skill like drain or tractor beams. With only being able to do 1 skill type limits a science officers abilities because many of the skills compliment each other and would make them effective if used together. As it is we have to specialize in 1 skill to make it usefull but making all others rather useless.
A tac captain can specialize in cannons and beams, beams and cannons, cannons and torps, beams and torps, torps and mines, beams and mines, or cannons and mines with any combination else one can think of for weapons and not miss a beat. Engi can specialize in tanking and dealing damage with any combination a tac can do and be good. Mix 2 sci skills and you get 2 nearly useless sci skills. add a third and you have 3 useless sci skills. Add a fourth and you may as well never do space.
Tac captains don't need to specialize, neither do Eng captains, all the specialization comes into play in Science. But the biggest problem is you can make all of Science redundant using 1/4 the points someone used to specialize. Science is far to easily defeated, and Eng threat is easily trumped by Tac DPS.
Tac basically trumps all.
The skill points system, just like every other system in this game is haphazard and nonsensical.
Seriously Max flow caps, nearly trumped by 3 points? There is 0 balance in this game.
Plus the fact that some skills overlap, like GW being a Lt. Cmdr and Cmdr ability, it should be dropped to Lt. and up. If there is 3 of a thing and its lvl 3 is high it should start at Lt.
Serously GW, PS and VM arent that great that they should all be Cmdr skills for 2 and 3.
With more starting at Lt. it could help shift the specializations. So say you want to specialize in CC and you have a....Fleet Advanced Research Vessel....
Tac captains don't need to specialize, neither do Eng captains, all the specialization comes into play in Science. But the biggest problem is you can make all of Science redundant using 1/4 the points someone used to specialize. Science is far to easily defeated, and Eng threat is easily trumped by Tac DPS.
Tac basically trumps all.
The skill points system, just like every other system in this game is haphazard and nonsensical.
Seriously Max flow caps, nearly trumped by 3 points? There is 0 balance in this game.
Plus the fact that some skills overlap, like GW being a Lt. Cmdr and Cmdr ability, it should be dropped to Lt. and up. If there is 3 of a thing and its lvl 3 is high it should start at Lt.
Serously GW, PS and VM arent that great that they should all be Cmdr skills for 2 and 3.
With more starting at Lt. it could help shift the specializations. So say you want to specialize in CC and you have a....Fleet Advanced Research Vessel....
Tac/engi specialize by BOFF skill choice. make sense now? You know the most common builds. not really specialized like a Sci captain using sci skills in a sci ship has to do. As it i sci captains have to be 1 trick ponies to be usefull and are only usefull when that 1 trick is. engi and tac do not have to specialize in one thing or two to be effective.
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Tac/engi specialize by BOFF skill choice. make sense now? You know the most common builds. not really specialized like a Sci captain using sci skills in a sci ship has to do. As it i sci captains have to be 1 trick ponies to be usefull and are only usefull when that 1 trick is. engi and tac do not have to specialize in one thing or two to be effective.
You are absolutely right.
I just meant that Tac and Eng captains have it easy.
Sci captains and people flying Sci vessels have a lot more work they need to put in.
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
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How about this?
Improve the usefullness of support and control in PvE.
Say Khitomer: make the science vessels able to break Donatra's cloak (atm a Nebula with console power activated can't even see her while at 0.01 km, TESTED), allow their abilities to work better on probes (sure, tractor repulsors work fine, but they are available to literary EVERY ship in the game), improve subsystem disabling (small ships die too soon anyway for effect and larger ships, where a Viral Matrix or Shield Subsystem beam would actually be useful, have a too danm high resistance to these abilities) and let enemies do more damage, but in a slighty slower pace (instead of the [Omega Invisible Instant-Killer [Acc]x4] most Borg ships seem to come with, let their plasma torpedoes do less damage on impact and more DoT), because this allows abilities like Hazard Emitters to show their true effectiveness.
In short: if science has a use again, there would be no need to buff them really
That's the point of this thread: Give us a REASON TO GO SCIENCE!
I'd like to add, power drain is really terrible in pvp.
Powers like stealth detection, viral matrix, any confuse, etc are pretty much worthless in pve.
The borg seem to entirely ignore multiple max statted grav wells simultaneously.
One of the problems here, is that other classes of vessel can too easily fire off science abilities, where the Science class vessel really just get the advantage of a Commander boff slot. That's about it. They have all the advantages and none of the shortcoings of the Science class.
So again the point of the thread, reiterated is Give us a reason to go science I really want to. I've bought every zen science ship in the game. I'd love to actually use them, and not feel like I'm dragging the team down.
How about this?
Improve the usefullness of support and control in PvE.
Say Khitomer: make the science vessels able to break Donatra's cloak (atm a Nebula with console power activated can't even see her while at 0.01 km, TESTED), allow their abilities to work better on probes (sure, tractor repulsors work fine, but they are available to literary EVERY ship in the game), improve subsystem disabling (small ships die too soon anyway for effect and larger ships, where a Viral Matrix or Shield Subsystem beam would actually be useful, have a too danm high resistance to these abilities) and let enemies do more damage, but in a slighty slower pace (instead of the [Omega Invisible Instant-Killer [Acc]x4] most Borg ships seem to come with, let their plasma torpedoes do less damage on impact and more DoT), because this allows abilities like Hazard Emitters to show their true effectiveness.
In short: if science has a use again, there would be no need to buff them really
1. All NPC cloaking abilities for higher ships are unstoppable. Especially the Battle Cloak ones(like Donatra)
2. My previous Higher level abilities for higher level ships would work well for the increased ability to take down subsystems.
3. You are correct resist are too damn high. They need to balance resist vs. use. I.E. Flow Caps vs. Power Insulators.
4.Borg plasma torpedoes. Should move a lot slower, ours do.
5. Your avatar/toon photo drives me nuts. Did you intentionally give him the largest forehead since beavis/butthead?
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
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I had another way of describing a bit of what's wrong. Its an issue of Reliability. Tactical abilities, both boff skills, captain skills ship buffs etc are all reliable. You get a heavy supply of offensive weapons, offensive abilities, and strong debuffs applied to those weapons and abilities.
A cruiser likewise actually has some very reliable ways to create damage, while also soaking a lot of damage as well.
Science is very unreliable. What class has their powers completely nullified by anything that is not a direct counter? Science. I say nullified not evenly resisted. What makes this worse is that if you build a character say for Viral matrix, Scramble etc you may be useful in a team pvp environment, but its an abysmal build in pve. Many enemies outright ignore these moves and kick you teeth in and laugh at you for trying. You can't rely on many Science abilities apart from the straight forward heals. No other class of ship MUST change loadouts to be at least semi-effective in a multitude of situations. The irony is that this is the ship that is supposed to be about the dirty tricks, and not about direct weapon attacks, but by its very design it does so poorly. I think that sums up the general concern here. Its just not a very adaptable ship.
Here's another possibility I came up with when somebody lined up all the X Team abilities side by side in another thread. Take the shield redistribution off of Tac Team and move it to Sci Team.
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Just a thought, how about changing how Sensor Analysis works? Something like, instead of stacking while a target is selected, it stacks on the science vessel while in Red Alert. That way, losing LoS doesn't reset SA. Then you make the effect to increase the effect of skill points on abilites or make it a APA/APO-style final modifier for science abilities.
So I pose the question: HOW CAN SCIENCE VESSELS BE MADE BETTER, OR MORE RELEVANT IN STO?
I...
The simple answer is
Do not allow anyone (not even NPC's) to be immnue from science effects. So when I have 4 borg cubes in a Gravity Well I want those 4 cubes to be stuck their for however long the effect lasts. If I have an after shock, then they should be stuck their for the duration of the aftershock as well.
When I hit someone with a Viral Matrix, I want their tray to go haywire. When I hit a NPC or someone with that effect that has them target their friends, I don't want 2 or 3 shots fired. I want to see a borg cube to annihilate it's borg sphere's.
That's the EASY way to fix science abilities. With that system, people whom fly science ships will be able to use an enemies own weaponsystem (or other means) against them. Therefore, they won't need to be in the middle of the fight like an escort.
Now before anyone can comment about how this will make science overpowered, think about how STO is already designed towards DPS and Escort ships. We're playing Escorts online, so if 2 escorts or 1 Tactical Scimitar can clear a side of the Vortex by themselves (I've done it by myself in my JHDC but NEVER is my Atrox or Vesta) using sheer force, why can't a Science ship do the same using non-lethal tactics?
One day Cryptic will be free from their Perfect World overlord. Until that day comes, they will continue to pamper the whales of this game, and ignore everyone that isn't a whale.
They really have it set up right now so that a Science ship can only fire a couple of aggressive Science abilities. The rest simply have to be the repair oriented skills: Science Team, Hazard Emitters, Polarize Hull, Transfer Shield Strength etc. I've got some sci builds that 'work' they're just simply outperformed by alternative Cruiser and Escort builds every time. The closest I get to performance is my Vesta, and that thing is a Science ship with a hangar and some pretty killer consoles and an unusual weapon loadout.
They really have it set up right now so that a Science ship can only fire a couple of aggressive Science abilities. The rest simply have to be the repair oriented skills: Science Team, Hazard Emitters, Polarize Hull, Transfer Shield Strength etc. I've got some sci builds that 'work' they're just simply outperformed by alternative Cruiser and Escort builds every time. The closest I get to performance is my Vesta, and that thing is a Science ship with a hangar and some pretty killer consoles and an unusual weapon loadout.
But back to the point, that ship is widely considered the ship to fly when you want a science ship that can do decent DPS (it's also widely considered a money grab for Cryptic when it was introduced).
So far in this game, pure science ships are not as appealing as their Science/Tactical Hybrids. Because like everyone's been saying Science abilities are almost worthless.
One day Cryptic will be free from their Perfect World overlord. Until that day comes, they will continue to pamper the whales of this game, and ignore everyone that isn't a whale.
I was hesitant to post this, but I can't take it anymore...the problem with sci ships is not the ships...or the skills, though I will say it wouldn't hurt to buff them a lil. The problem is with the captains. Its not that science skills don't do damage, its that people don't know how to do damage with sci vessels. Its not about massive DPS, its about constant DPS and removing the others ability to heal. I am a proud sci captain and I can crush MOST ships I fight in PvP, tac, eng, sci...doesn't matter. Science does not play like the other 2 classes, it takes skill, timing and careful planning on how u want to build your ship. Just because u can't figure out how to do it, does not mean its broken.
Now...with that being said...if u want to learn how to fly sci send me a pm in game
Another idea I've mentioned in the past is to set up synergies that make it worthwhile to play a Science captain or fly a Science vessel.
For example, maybe Science vessels could give a flat +10 bonus to all Space Science Captain skills? To be fair, they might have to give similar skill boosts for Escorts and Cruisers. There are more Science and Engineering skills than Tactical, so theoretically Science Vessels and Cruisers would benefit more from a skill bonus than an Escort would.
Or, they could create combo-like interactions between Commander Science powers and other powers. Since only Science(ish) vessels will have a Commander Science BO slot, only those ships would have the Sci combos. Again, Escort and Cruiser pilots will demand combos of their own but that could be balanced out.
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I love powerful and effective CC. Mobs don't cry, so control them to hell and back, I say! City of Heroes had powerful and effective CC, and I don't remember the PvE game suffering for that, it made it more fun for everyone.
But unfortunately, CC is no fun for players at the other end of it, and if PvE and PvP builds are tied together, it makes it difficult to get the right balance between being powerful enough to be useful in PvE, while not being annoyingly overpowered in PvP. (I think the future's in active anti-CC, things players can do to get out of CC.)
However, I think Sci works at the moment as a debuffer in PvE fairly well, and with good use of beams torps and mines, and keeping pumped up with Energy Siphon, little tricks like that, playing Sci is competitive and fun.
I can't speak to PvP, as I haven't tried it in this game yet.
Basically, I don't think Sci is all that far out of whack. I think the upcoming slight boosts to Tyken's Rift III and Gravity Well III, with hopefully 2 deflectors for Sci ships, will bring Sci back into balance quite nicely. Not OP but certainly just as deadly in skilled hands as any of the other classes, if skilled and specced for it.
Incidentally, I don't think Sci should necessarily be limited to research and exploration roles; there is such a thing as military scientific research, after all. Scientists can just as easily be interested in researching ways to disable, destroy, etc., to an extent that makes them extremely capable militarily.
If we compare Sci to "magic" users in other games, it's never usually thought that magic users aren't capable of damage. They are certainly capable of it if they spec for it. The point is that the class has that versatility.
The Problem with Science Vessels is Cryptic designed the game where they make up their lack of firepower with Science "Magic". But the thing is the way the game is designed, there is few situations where Science Powers actually are a major focus. The Exceptions pretty much being CE and NWS. And Science Powers can actually be detrimental. For example, Grav Welling a NPC Group in a Fleet Action, and some Escort Scatter Fires and destroys them all. That Escort gets the kill credit and you don't. So that discourages Science Players.
So the only things that come to mind is bringing Science Ship DPS to be competitive with Escorts and Cruisers or increase Science Powers to a level that they make them competitive. However, the major down point in doing this is that it will cause further power creep, given that we are raising the level to match Escorts.
If you were around for Beta, you would know that the sci powers were nerfed because they were "OP". In other words, the escorts were crying because grav wells were killing them before they could get to effective cannon range.
I remember those days. The Tgt Subs thing was pretty early on as I recollect though. As an aside, I love playing all classes of ship. The one class I feel that underperforms as a whole though is Science, particularly when you look at what the Feets have to offer. The Ha'nom I just feel sorry for unless you're a Engy that's good at keeping your power levels really high. One thing I think they should do as well is divorce Tgt Subsystems from weapons type. Its irrelevant what you hit the subsytem with in my view. If you want to give a higher magnitude or success rate for Beams I'm fine with that, but I think even a Torpedo should be able to attack a subsystem.
yep. there are many instances where a captain said "target their TRIBBLE" and the torpedo did the job
I love powerful and effective CC. Mobs don't cry, so control them to hell and back, I say! City of Heroes had powerful and effective CC, and I don't remember the PvE game suffering for that, it made it more fun for everyone.
But unfortunately, CC is no fun for players at the other end of it, and if PvE and PvP builds are tied together, it makes it difficult to get the right balance between being powerful enough to be useful in PvE, while not being annoyingly overpowered in PvP. (I think the future's in active anti-CC, things players can do to get out of CC.)
1) City of Heroes was such a great game. I always find myself comparing every game I've played in relation to it. I agree that game had excellent crowd control. Truly excellent. I miss it to this day. In fact, I was thinking about how I wish I could go to Ouroboros, just yesterday.
2) I think you're right about the Crowd control issue. I recollect when people complained about it and it eventually did get nerfed. I don't want Science ships to be overpowered. It would just be nice if they did get that City of Heroes type balance, and I think some clicky moves might be a good way to go. Breakfrees of a sort. Although those do exist: Polarize Hull and APO. Perhaps a trait could be added?
I was hesitant to post this, but I can't take it anymore...the problem with sci ships is not the ships...or the skills, though I will say it wouldn't hurt to buff them a lil. The problem is with the captains. Its not that science skills don't do damage, its that people don't know how to do damage with sci vessels. Its not about massive DPS, its about constant DPS and removing the others ability to heal. I am a proud sci captain and I can crush MOST ships I fight in PvP, tac, eng, sci...doesn't matter. Science does not play like the other 2 classes, it takes skill, timing and careful planning on how u want to build your ship. Just because u can't figure out how to do it, does not mean its broken.
Now...with that being said...if u want to learn how to fly sci send me a pm in game
King@o-g-money
You kind of make my point for me Kundo. It wouldn't hurt to buff them a little, as long as things are properly balanced. The topic is more about how they can improve it, and a bunch of ideas have been kicked around here with the hope that a dev might read it and kick it around in the office. I agree with you its about being aware of what the enemy is doing, timing your shot at the right moment and careful planning. The real problem I've seen over the years as someone who has played science all along is that they have made sweeping changes that kill a build. A skill can go from working fantastically in pve or pvp to being made junk overnight, and seems to happen an awful lot. Polarize Hull use to be on the same cooldown of Hazard Emitters. I'm glad they changed that. The general point of the thread though is how to drive things back to even-ness. It would be nice if people wanted a Science to actually show up to an STF or Fleet action.
From what I know about science ships they are more for support than actual attacking, like if your using a sci ship in a fleet action pvp/pve you can target the enemy shields to help dmg them and use the sci officer abilities to assist your team to win against dread ships and such well that was the way it was last time I played the game with a sci ship, and that was 2 seasons ago from the looks of it all.
Photonic Shockwave should make targets screen go black for the duration of the effect. Not the UI, just the underlying game screen.
Scramble Sensors should be changed from the way it currently works. Right now, it tricks the sensors into targeting friendlies. It needs to work off the basis of tricking the Bridge Officers with incorrect data. This will cause an automatic target lock on a friendly that cannot be changed for the duration of the effect. Remove the Static Screen effect from Scramble Sensors. Block out the Target UI and add the words "Scrambled Sensors" in it's place.
Viral Matrix needs to be a constant effect, meaning a battery may cure the shutdown, but Viral Matrix would simply reapply itself to another subsystem. It also needs to have the Static Screen effect of Scramble Sensors added to it, thus giving the impression that something has invaded the ships systems or some variation of that effect.
Tyken's Rift needs to have a 10% via doff or straight ability to create an Interphasic Rift instead of a Tyken's Rift, thus spawning a Terran Empire vessel. It also needs the cool down reduced to be more in line with an ability that only lasts 10 seconds.
Tachyon Beam needs to strip off shields based on % and not a flat number. It's fairly useless atm.
Gravity Well should be changed to an AoE that effects all targets, not just the enemy. Meaning, you can get sucked into your own Gravity Well.
Tractor Beam Repulsors need to stop boosting pushed targets defenses. Yes, using this on a target actually does that. They should bring the target defense to zero like tractor beams OR boost the casters accuracy of pushed target.
Photonic Officer needs to have it's mandatory two minute cool down removed to make it a more viable option.
Tractor Beam remove the addition lengths from Ranks 2 and 3 so they last the same amount of time as Rank 1. Add boosted Kinetic DMG to Rank 2. Make Rank 3 unbreakable and maintain the Kinetic DMG boost from Rank 2.
Feedback Pulse needs to no longer have it's return DMG buffed from tacical patterns. Sorry, but that is just wrong and means that the Tactical Captains do the most DMG with a Science skill. Rank of ability, skill points spent into that ability and Auxiliary Power should be the only determining factors behind Feedback Pulse. No other changes required due to new doff.
Charged Particle Burst needs to have it's range of effect adjusted based on rank. 5km at Rank 1, 10km at Rank 2 and 15km at Rank 3. This would aid in fighting cloaked enemies and become a key defensive skill for Science Boffs.
Energy Siphon should have it's buff timers increased per rank. 5sec at Rank 1, 10sec at Rank 3 and 15sec at Rank 3 respectively.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
Did they ever fix Photonic Officer? I'm aware that the mandatory cooldown is the current hot button issue, but as I recall, the cooldown reductions would only last as long as the Photonic Officer buff itself. If you had 14 seconds left on Photonic Officer, but 15 seconds left on Emergency Power to Shields, that 15 seconds would immediately shoot up after the buff expired instead of retaining the reduction. Before they remove the mandatory cooldown, they should first change it to a flat cooldown reduction instead of applying a buff that does it for a set period of time.
Did they ever fix Photonic Officer? I'm aware that the mandatory cooldown is the current hot button issue, but as I recall, the cooldown reductions would only last as long as the Photonic Officer buff itself. If you had 14 seconds left on Photonic Officer, but 15 seconds left on Emergency Power to Shields, that 15 seconds would immediately shoot up after the buff expired instead of retaining the reduction. Before they remove the mandatory cooldown, they should first change it to a flat cooldown reduction instead of applying a buff that does it for a set period of time.
Removing the mandatory cooldown and using three photonic doffs would only mean you have 12 seconds without having the buff. It would be a good change even with the current issue you are talking about, which does still exist.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
Doesn't anyone else find that Photonic Officer is too high up the rungs for what it actually does? The only point I might see for it is maybe a siphon or healing boat, and the siphon boat is kinda pointless in pvp at least with the stats the way they are now (unless you are lucky enough to run into someone who was ignorant enough NOT to have gotten the cheap and easy protection from siphons in their skills - and unlikely prospect in pvp).
I'd personally accept it as is if they did one thing to it: Gave it shield balancing on par with Tactical Team. If they did that, I'd probably consider using it. Especially since Science ships are supposed to be all about the cool Shield systems.
I personally think they should be stronger against computer targets and less effective against human player ships. Finding a good balance with the effects in PvP and PvE is hard when your just using 1 set of stats instead of 1 set for PvP and another for PvE. Their is already some things in game that is like that with less effect against humans than the comp. Do more of that.
I think Science vessels should get a 47% increase in shield mod.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Again, I think these ideas, while great, don't address the real issue, that science ships aren't really meant for battle. I don't mind that they don't do as well in combat as actual combat ships.
I mean, you wouldn't have asked Jaques Cousteau to take the Calypso into battle would you?
Except that this game is only Star Trek in name. If Jaques Cousteau lived in the world of STO, he'd have refit the Calypso with armor piercing quad harpoon launchers and dual heavy refracting flare guns that have a 2.5% chance to blind the enemy.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
Comments
Tac captains don't need to specialize, neither do Eng captains, all the specialization comes into play in Science. But the biggest problem is you can make all of Science redundant using 1/4 the points someone used to specialize. Science is far to easily defeated, and Eng threat is easily trumped by Tac DPS.
Tac basically trumps all.
The skill points system, just like every other system in this game is haphazard and nonsensical.
Seriously Max flow caps, nearly trumped by 3 points? There is 0 balance in this game.
Plus the fact that some skills overlap, like GW being a Lt. Cmdr and Cmdr ability, it should be dropped to Lt. and up. If there is 3 of a thing and its lvl 3 is high it should start at Lt.
Serously GW, PS and VM arent that great that they should all be Cmdr skills for 2 and 3.
With more starting at Lt. it could help shift the specializations. So say you want to specialize in CC and you have a....Fleet Advanced Research Vessel....
Ens. - TB 1
Lt. - HE 1, GW 1
Lt. Cmdr. - TSS 1, TBR 1, GW 2, TR 3
Be Much better IMHO.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Tac/engi specialize by BOFF skill choice. make sense now? You know the most common builds. not really specialized like a Sci captain using sci skills in a sci ship has to do. As it i sci captains have to be 1 trick ponies to be usefull and are only usefull when that 1 trick is. engi and tac do not have to specialize in one thing or two to be effective.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
You are absolutely right.
I just meant that Tac and Eng captains have it easy.
Sci captains and people flying Sci vessels have a lot more work they need to put in.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Improve the usefullness of support and control in PvE.
Say Khitomer: make the science vessels able to break Donatra's cloak (atm a Nebula with console power activated can't even see her while at 0.01 km, TESTED), allow their abilities to work better on probes (sure, tractor repulsors work fine, but they are available to literary EVERY ship in the game), improve subsystem disabling (small ships die too soon anyway for effect and larger ships, where a Viral Matrix or Shield Subsystem beam would actually be useful, have a too danm high resistance to these abilities) and let enemies do more damage, but in a slighty slower pace (instead of the [Omega Invisible Instant-Killer [Acc]x4] most Borg ships seem to come with, let their plasma torpedoes do less damage on impact and more DoT), because this allows abilities like Hazard Emitters to show their true effectiveness.
In short: if science has a use again, there would be no need to buff them really
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I'd like to add, power drain is really terrible in pvp.
Powers like stealth detection, viral matrix, any confuse, etc are pretty much worthless in pve.
The borg seem to entirely ignore multiple max statted grav wells simultaneously.
One of the problems here, is that other classes of vessel can too easily fire off science abilities, where the Science class vessel really just get the advantage of a Commander boff slot. That's about it. They have all the advantages and none of the shortcoings of the Science class.
So again the point of the thread, reiterated is Give us a reason to go science
1. All NPC cloaking abilities for higher ships are unstoppable. Especially the Battle Cloak ones(like Donatra)
2. My previous Higher level abilities for higher level ships would work well for the increased ability to take down subsystems.
3. You are correct resist are too damn high. They need to balance resist vs. use. I.E. Flow Caps vs. Power Insulators.
4.Borg plasma torpedoes. Should move a lot slower, ours do.
5. Your avatar/toon photo drives me nuts. Did you intentionally give him the largest forehead since beavis/butthead?
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
A cruiser likewise actually has some very reliable ways to create damage, while also soaking a lot of damage as well.
Science is very unreliable. What class has their powers completely nullified by anything that is not a direct counter? Science. I say nullified not evenly resisted. What makes this worse is that if you build a character say for Viral matrix, Scramble etc you may be useful in a team pvp environment, but its an abysmal build in pve. Many enemies outright ignore these moves and kick you teeth in and laugh at you for trying. You can't rely on many Science abilities apart from the straight forward heals. No other class of ship MUST change loadouts to be at least semi-effective in a multitude of situations. The irony is that this is the ship that is supposed to be about the dirty tricks, and not about direct weapon attacks, but by its very design it does so poorly. I think that sums up the general concern here. Its just not a very adaptable ship.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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The simple answer is
Do not allow anyone (not even NPC's) to be immnue from science effects. So when I have 4 borg cubes in a Gravity Well I want those 4 cubes to be stuck their for however long the effect lasts. If I have an after shock, then they should be stuck their for the duration of the aftershock as well.
When I hit someone with a Viral Matrix, I want their tray to go haywire. When I hit a NPC or someone with that effect that has them target their friends, I don't want 2 or 3 shots fired. I want to see a borg cube to annihilate it's borg sphere's.
That's the EASY way to fix science abilities. With that system, people whom fly science ships will be able to use an enemies own weaponsystem (or other means) against them. Therefore, they won't need to be in the middle of the fight like an escort.
Now before anyone can comment about how this will make science overpowered, think about how STO is already designed towards DPS and Escort ships. We're playing Escorts online, so if 2 escorts or 1 Tactical Scimitar can clear a side of the Vortex by themselves (I've done it by myself in my JHDC but NEVER is my Atrox or Vesta) using sheer force, why can't a Science ship do the same using non-lethal tactics?
I own the Multi-Mission Reconnaissance Explorer (http://sto.gamepedia.com/Multi-Mission_Reconnaissance_Explorer) It's a hybrid between a Tactical ship and a science ship. It was my fist ship with a hangar and now I'm addicted to carriers.
But back to the point, that ship is widely considered the ship to fly when you want a science ship that can do decent DPS (it's also widely considered a money grab for Cryptic when it was introduced).
So far in this game, pure science ships are not as appealing as their Science/Tactical Hybrids. Because like everyone's been saying Science abilities are almost worthless.
Now...with that being said...if u want to learn how to fly sci send me a pm in game
King@o-g-money
For example, maybe Science vessels could give a flat +10 bonus to all Space Science Captain skills? To be fair, they might have to give similar skill boosts for Escorts and Cruisers. There are more Science and Engineering skills than Tactical, so theoretically Science Vessels and Cruisers would benefit more from a skill bonus than an Escort would.
Or, they could create combo-like interactions between Commander Science powers and other powers. Since only Science(ish) vessels will have a Commander Science BO slot, only those ships would have the Sci combos. Again, Escort and Cruiser pilots will demand combos of their own but that could be balanced out.
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But unfortunately, CC is no fun for players at the other end of it, and if PvE and PvP builds are tied together, it makes it difficult to get the right balance between being powerful enough to be useful in PvE, while not being annoyingly overpowered in PvP. (I think the future's in active anti-CC, things players can do to get out of CC.)
However, I think Sci works at the moment as a debuffer in PvE fairly well, and with good use of beams torps and mines, and keeping pumped up with Energy Siphon, little tricks like that, playing Sci is competitive and fun.
I can't speak to PvP, as I haven't tried it in this game yet.
Basically, I don't think Sci is all that far out of whack. I think the upcoming slight boosts to Tyken's Rift III and Gravity Well III, with hopefully 2 deflectors for Sci ships, will bring Sci back into balance quite nicely. Not OP but certainly just as deadly in skilled hands as any of the other classes, if skilled and specced for it.
Incidentally, I don't think Sci should necessarily be limited to research and exploration roles; there is such a thing as military scientific research, after all. Scientists can just as easily be interested in researching ways to disable, destroy, etc., to an extent that makes them extremely capable militarily.
If we compare Sci to "magic" users in other games, it's never usually thought that magic users aren't capable of damage. They are certainly capable of it if they spec for it. The point is that the class has that versatility.
If you were around for Beta, you would know that the sci powers were nerfed because they were "OP". In other words, the escorts were crying because grav wells were killing them before they could get to effective cannon range.
yep. there are many instances where a captain said "target their TRIBBLE" and the torpedo did the job
1) City of Heroes was such a great game. I always find myself comparing every game I've played in relation to it. I agree that game had excellent crowd control. Truly excellent. I miss it to this day. In fact, I was thinking about how I wish I could go to Ouroboros, just yesterday.
2) I think you're right about the Crowd control issue. I recollect when people complained about it and it eventually did get nerfed. I don't want Science ships to be overpowered. It would just be nice if they did get that City of Heroes type balance, and I think some clicky moves might be a good way to go. Breakfrees of a sort. Although those do exist: Polarize Hull and APO. Perhaps a trait could be added?
You kind of make my point for me Kundo. It wouldn't hurt to buff them a little, as long as things are properly balanced. The topic is more about how they can improve it, and a bunch of ideas have been kicked around here with the hope that a dev might read it and kick it around in the office. I agree with you its about being aware of what the enemy is doing, timing your shot at the right moment and careful planning. The real problem I've seen over the years as someone who has played science all along is that they have made sweeping changes that kill a build. A skill can go from working fantastically in pve or pvp to being made junk overnight, and seems to happen an awful lot. Polarize Hull use to be on the same cooldown of Hazard Emitters. I'm glad they changed that. The general point of the thread though is how to drive things back to even-ness. It would be nice if people wanted a Science to actually show up to an STF or Fleet action.
Scramble Sensors should be changed from the way it currently works. Right now, it tricks the sensors into targeting friendlies. It needs to work off the basis of tricking the Bridge Officers with incorrect data. This will cause an automatic target lock on a friendly that cannot be changed for the duration of the effect. Remove the Static Screen effect from Scramble Sensors. Block out the Target UI and add the words "Scrambled Sensors" in it's place.
Viral Matrix needs to be a constant effect, meaning a battery may cure the shutdown, but Viral Matrix would simply reapply itself to another subsystem. It also needs to have the Static Screen effect of Scramble Sensors added to it, thus giving the impression that something has invaded the ships systems or some variation of that effect.
Tyken's Rift needs to have a 10% via doff or straight ability to create an Interphasic Rift instead of a Tyken's Rift, thus spawning a Terran Empire vessel. It also needs the cool down reduced to be more in line with an ability that only lasts 10 seconds.
Tachyon Beam needs to strip off shields based on % and not a flat number. It's fairly useless atm.
Gravity Well should be changed to an AoE that effects all targets, not just the enemy. Meaning, you can get sucked into your own Gravity Well.
Tractor Beam Repulsors need to stop boosting pushed targets defenses. Yes, using this on a target actually does that. They should bring the target defense to zero like tractor beams OR boost the casters accuracy of pushed target.
Photonic Officer needs to have it's mandatory two minute cool down removed to make it a more viable option.
Tractor Beam remove the addition lengths from Ranks 2 and 3 so they last the same amount of time as Rank 1. Add boosted Kinetic DMG to Rank 2. Make Rank 3 unbreakable and maintain the Kinetic DMG boost from Rank 2.
Feedback Pulse needs to no longer have it's return DMG buffed from tacical patterns. Sorry, but that is just wrong and means that the Tactical Captains do the most DMG with a Science skill. Rank of ability, skill points spent into that ability and Auxiliary Power should be the only determining factors behind Feedback Pulse. No other changes required due to new doff.
Charged Particle Burst needs to have it's range of effect adjusted based on rank. 5km at Rank 1, 10km at Rank 2 and 15km at Rank 3. This would aid in fighting cloaked enemies and become a key defensive skill for Science Boffs.
Energy Siphon should have it's buff timers increased per rank. 5sec at Rank 1, 10sec at Rank 3 and 15sec at Rank 3 respectively.
Removing the mandatory cooldown and using three photonic doffs would only mean you have 12 seconds without having the buff. It would be a good change even with the current issue you are talking about, which does still exist.
I'd personally accept it as is if they did one thing to it: Gave it shield balancing on par with Tactical Team. If they did that, I'd probably consider using it. Especially since Science ships are supposed to be all about the cool Shield systems.
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Except that this game is only Star Trek in name. If Jaques Cousteau lived in the world of STO, he'd have refit the Calypso with armor piercing quad harpoon launchers and dual heavy refracting flare guns that have a 2.5% chance to blind the enemy.