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Forums > Home› The Foundry for Star Trek Online› The Foundry for Star Trek Online - Discussion & Feedback

Just What IS the Deal with Reach Markers?

maninblack017maninblack017 Member Posts: 152 Arc User
edited September 2013 in The Foundry for Star Trek Online - Discussion & Feedback
Okay so I just finished my second mission now and have experimented a few times with using Reach Markers. But I've never had any success with getting them to work properly so I deleted them. Does anyone have advice on using them? Tips to make them more effective? No one wants people playing their mission to have to run around in circles trying to trigger a marker (that was the problem I was having). I know that these could really help expand the abilities of creating a mission but I just haven't seen enough reliability to justify them.
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Post edited by maninblack017 on

Comments

  • hippiejonhippiejon Member Posts: 1,581 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Try playing around with the size of the reach marker, change the radius.

    I mainly use them on ground maps, or places where I know the PC will move through.
    I don't use reach markers as objective points. I use them for triggers.

    So, if I know that the PC is going to walk into that room (for example) , and when they do I want an explosion across the room. So, I put a reach marker at the door, sized to cover the whole door area. I set the explosion to trigger off of the reach marker so when the PC walks through the door, the explosion goes off.

    Hope that's of some help, and understandable.
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  • thegreendragoon1thegreendragoon1 Member Posts: 1,872 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    As hippiejohn mentioned, be sure to check your radius. The reach markers sometimes have a tendency to start out with a default radius of 0. You'll also want to check that your reach marker is on the same y plane as the player. Reach markers are essentially a sphere, meaning that if the marker is above or below the player, it can reduce the area in which the player can set off the reach marker.
  • drogyn1701drogyn1701 Member Posts: 3,606 Media Corps
    edited September 2013
    They seem to be much more reliable on ground maps than on space. In space it is far too easy for the player to miss them vertically. I know they are supposed to be spheres, but I'm not too sure. I tend to avoid using them in space in favor to talk to contacts or interact with objects. Those can be scanned for.

    On the ground I've never had any trouble. Just make sure to set the radius to a decent size.
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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I've used them quite successfully in space. Watch your radii and your y-coordinate and you're fine.

    One tip: Players usually maneuver all over the place during combat. It kind of helps to have some kind of physical object marker if you put a "reach point" objective after a fight. Make the marker big enough and this is less of an issue, but if size is a consideration, some kind of object (FX - Beacon at least, set to vanish upon reaching the marker) helps.

    For another example, I've got a map where you have to reach transporter range of a particular section of a space station after a rather busy space battle (a good dozen Fed and KDF mob groups, plus the PC). The solution I used is to state clearly in the narration and mission objective which part of the station you're supposed to go to, and center the marker on that part of the station.
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  • maninblack017maninblack017 Member Posts: 152 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I bet this was my issue. I never knew that there was a radius modifier. That makes total sense now. Where is the radius at - where the coordinates are? I will definitely use them now that you guys cleared that up for me! Thank you so much!
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  • zorbanezorbane Member Posts: 1,617 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    maninblack017 wrote: »
    ...Where is the radius at - where the coordinates are? I will definitely use them now that you guys cleared that up for me! ...

    Yup, its right below the XYZ thing
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  • maninblack017maninblack017 Member Posts: 152 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Now I know! And knowing is half the battle!

    ....G..I ...Joooooooeeeee...

    Sorry..couldn't resist.
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  • stoutesstoutes Member Posts: 4,219 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    maninblack017 wrote: »
    Now I know! And knowing is half the battle!

    ....G..I ...Joooooooeeeee...

    Sorry..couldn't resist.

    [Spock's Voice]* Now.... you... know.. *[/Spock's Voice]

    :eek::D me neither
    maxvitor wrote: »
    Nerf is OP, plz nerf
    That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.

    I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    maninblack017 wrote: »
    Now I know! And knowing is half the battle!

    ....G..I ...Joooooooeeeee...

    Sorry..couldn't resist.
    Go JOE!

    Erm, anyways, I'm not sure if it still does this but there's a minor issue in space maps where if a reach marker objective spawns around you, you have to exit and reenter the radius.... Or was it fixed? not sure.
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  • thegreendragoon1thegreendragoon1 Member Posts: 1,872 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    markhawkman wrote: »
    Go JOE!

    Erm, anyways, I'm not sure if it still does this but there's a minor issue in space maps where if a reach marker objective spawns around you, you have to exit and reenter the radius.... Or was it fixed? not sure.

    No this is still the case. I'm not sure if this is a bug or a limitation of how reach markers work.
  • stoutesstoutes Member Posts: 4,219 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    thegreendragoon1 wrote: »
    No this is still the case. I'm not sure if this is a bug or a limitation of how reach markers work.

    Isn't it the case that you can trigger the reachmarker by touching the borders? If I want to start the user hitting a trigger, i usually set the reach marker border barely touching the user spawn point.
    maxvitor wrote: »
    Nerf is OP, plz nerf
    That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.

    I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
  • thegreendragoon1thegreendragoon1 Member Posts: 1,872 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    stoutes wrote: »
    Isn't it the case that you can trigger the reachmarker by touching the borders? If I want to start the user hitting a trigger, i usually set the reach marker border barely touching the user spawn point.

    An interesting thought. I don't know, it depends on how it works. While it's difficult to predict exactly where a player will be, you could group a bunch of reach markers since component reached is an OR instead of an AND.
  • maninblack017maninblack017 Member Posts: 152 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I actually haven't used reach markers in space. Only on the ground. After all of your responses, I was able to edit the next to last map of Uprising Act II to turn it into what I had envisioned as I wrote it. I played through it last night and was very pleased with how it turned out. Can't believe that I was steered away from such helpful tools in reach markers. I definitely will be looking into utilizing them more in Act III and forward. Thank you guys again!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • thegreendragoon1thegreendragoon1 Member Posts: 1,872 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I wouldn't say never use reach markers in space, but I do like to give the player some kind of visual indicator of where they're going. In many cases this ends up being a beacon which can be seen at any distance.
  • stoutesstoutes Member Posts: 4,219 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Certainly, although for greater distances a beacon wouldn't work as good. You "might" put an optional dialog over the beacon-blink to create a white objective border like in Ker'rat.

    This optional dialog can give you a second layer of control btw (you can run events by using "dialog reached") in this way.
    maxvitor wrote: »
    Nerf is OP, plz nerf
    That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.

    I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    maninblack017 wrote: »
    I actually haven't used reach markers in space. Only on the ground. After all of your responses, I was able to edit the next to last map of Uprising Act II to turn it into what I had envisioned as I wrote it. I played through it last night and was very pleased with how it turned out. Can't believe that I was steered away from such helpful tools in reach markers. I definitely will be looking into utilizing them more in Act III and forward. Thank you guys again!

    Yeah, they're definitely useful. Quite apart from the basic "Go here" objective, I've used them for everything from making a ship warp out and then disappear (nearby "Component reached" makes "ship doing warp animation" invisible so the animation won't cycle and break immersion) to things like simulating a stray torpedo from an ongoing battle hitting a space station the player boards ("component reached" makes "FX - screen shake" visible). Markers are a bit more versatile than invisible objects for this kind of map event because you can control their size more precisely.
    thegreendragoon1 wrote: »
    component reached is an OR instead of an AND.

    Now this I did not know. Cool stuff!
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
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    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • paxfederaticapaxfederatica Member Posts: 1,496 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    stoutes wrote: »
    Isn't it the case that you can trigger the reachmarker by touching the borders? If I want to start the user hitting a trigger, i usually set the reach marker border barely touching the user spawn point.

    This is how I do the "title cards" at the start of my missions. In addition to the series title, each mission in my series has a sub-title that I display as yellow fly-in text by creating a reach marker with a huge radius that encompasses the player's first objective, and having the player spawn just outside that radius. Moving toward the first objective will also move inside the radius, triggering the sub-title text.
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  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,115 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    maninblack017 wrote: »
    Okay so I just finished my second mission now and have experimented a few times with using Reach Markers. But I've never had any success with getting them to work properly so I deleted them. Does anyone have advice on using them? Tips to make them more effective? No one wants people playing their mission to have to run around in circles trying to trigger a marker (that was the problem I was having). I know that these could really help expand the abilities of creating a mission but I just haven't seen enough reliability to justify them.

    I've used them very successfully in the missions I've made, BUT:

    1) Make sure that there no way to bypass a reach marker that triggers something you need to have happen for the player tom progress (IE Make sure it's large enough that there is no way to bypass it.)

    2) It is indeed possible for a fast flying ship to go at a fast enough velocity in game (at full impulse with high engine power that it can pass through a default size reach marker without actually triggering it (IE don't ask me why but reach marker trigger has a small delay.) Solution: make it larger - and test.

    3) If somehow, you set up your map and mission so that a ship is somehow already within a reach maker when the marker is made 'active' - said reach marker will never be triggered (unless the player heads fully outside said reach marker and turns around and heads back into it. For a reach marker to trigger; a player/ship must be outside it when it becomes active; and walk/fly into it. So, when setting spawn or respawn points, make sure they are all well outside of any reach marker you want/need the player to trigger.

    Some authors say,

    "Never use a reach marker; instead always use an intractable object; or an NPC interaction to trigger something."

    I disagree. Reach Markers (when used and tested carefully) can allow you to surprise a player with something when they hit a certain point; or hide further objectives you don't want them to see until they've gotten to a particular point, etc.

    they can also be used to trigger dialogue from other characters at the right time, and used that way can enhance your story, etc.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    My favorite use of reach markers in space is to mark course headings.
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  • nagoraknagorak Member Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    In space if there's an issue, just make them really big. If necessary you can make it so that just generally entering an area of the map will trigger the marker.

    Also, it helps if you make it so that there is some sort of physical object that the player is supposed to approach for orientation. For example, a planet, or space station, or another ship.
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