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My take on Star Trek: Into Darkness
djf021
Member Posts: 1,382 Arc User
I finally got a chance to watch ST:ID this evening. First off, let me say that ALONE, and if I had no prior knowledge of Star Trek, it stands as a very exciting and visually stunning movie. A real action packed adventure. I will give it credit on that front.
But I DO HAVE PRIOR KNOWLEDGE OF TREK, and that is about where my good will ends. Look guys, I was a little reluctant to hate on ST 2009 as much as some others, mostly because I was able to rationalize the canon in my own mind for the most part. (I don't buy the explanation they give that it's an alternate universe, that's obviously a lame excuse for J.J. to do whatever he wants.) I was also very happy to have SOMETHING bearing the name Star Trek again.
That being said, even if it IS an "alternate universe", Star Trek's Mirror, Mirror and Enterprise's In a Mirror Darkly show us that the alternate universe characters do not magically change their race from one universe to another. Also, alternate universes do not suddenly make humans be able to withstand lethal amounts of radiation as well as Vulcans (Spock's rationale, and therefore canon, for going in to make repairs in TWOK) The Kirk death scene was cheesy, and felt like a rip off of the best movie ever. And all the lines they stole from other previous productions also felt forced and awkward to me. The only think missing that could have made it cheesier was if Kirk had said: "Second star to the right...and straight on til morning" in the final bridge scene.
I know I'm not stating anything others have not stated before, but I just had to get that off my chest. I REALLY, REALLY wanted to love this movie, and I am a VERY objective person by nature. But given what I know of the Star Trek franchise, it just didn't feel right.
Anyway, if this gives you a good reason to rant about the movie again, feel free, and ENJOY! :P
But I DO HAVE PRIOR KNOWLEDGE OF TREK, and that is about where my good will ends. Look guys, I was a little reluctant to hate on ST 2009 as much as some others, mostly because I was able to rationalize the canon in my own mind for the most part. (I don't buy the explanation they give that it's an alternate universe, that's obviously a lame excuse for J.J. to do whatever he wants.) I was also very happy to have SOMETHING bearing the name Star Trek again.
That being said, even if it IS an "alternate universe", Star Trek's Mirror, Mirror and Enterprise's In a Mirror Darkly show us that the alternate universe characters do not magically change their race from one universe to another. Also, alternate universes do not suddenly make humans be able to withstand lethal amounts of radiation as well as Vulcans (Spock's rationale, and therefore canon, for going in to make repairs in TWOK) The Kirk death scene was cheesy, and felt like a rip off of the best movie ever. And all the lines they stole from other previous productions also felt forced and awkward to me. The only think missing that could have made it cheesier was if Kirk had said: "Second star to the right...and straight on til morning" in the final bridge scene.
I know I'm not stating anything others have not stated before, but I just had to get that off my chest. I REALLY, REALLY wanted to love this movie, and I am a VERY objective person by nature. But given what I know of the Star Trek franchise, it just didn't feel right.
Anyway, if this gives you a good reason to rant about the movie again, feel free, and ENJOY! :P
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
Post edited by djf021 on
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There was a lot of things wrong with the movie, but to be quite honest... all of the Star Trek movies have things wrong with them. If you name a Star Trek movie, I will without a doubt find a major plothole or something that contradicts previous movies or TV series, or cite real world examples of Trekkies hating on it at the time. So because every Star Trek movie is bad, I honestly enjoyed Into Darkness for what it was worth.
I enjoyed the introduction of the Klingons, and felt that had a more intimidating presence in Into Darkness than any of the previous movies or TV shows. They seemed incredibly 'real' to me in ways the previous incarnations didn't, and hope they make a return in a far greater role in a future movie.
The central themes of family and saving your crew is in my opinion one of the major focal points of TOS and highlights the extreme disparity between Kirk and let's say... Janeway, who in my opinion was the worst captain of any series or movie. It reflects much of TOS, where Kirk had always put the lives of his crew before anything else. Despite the constant red shirt deaths, Kirk was always serious about saving his ship and crew and TRIBBLE everything else.
The major problems I had is it did seem too much like Star Trek fanboys had taken control of the movie and decided to make a nostalgic recreation of Star Trek by putting in needless references to remind people of how awesome the original Star Trek was, without a fine focus on the story. The character of Carol Marcus was completely needless, save for the cheesecake scene in the shuttle.
Khan didn't bother me too much. When the previous actor was a latin dancer trying to portray a Sikh, it really didn't bother me that the next incarnation was a white englishman. Roddenberry had already completely thrown the logical origin of Khan out the window in TOS, so I really don't see anything wrong with Benedict Cumberbatch taking the role.
That said, it was a movie that made money, and in my opinion is tons better than Star Trek Nemesis and Enterprise which is why the franchise died to begin with. Are the JJ Abrams movies great? No. But none of the movies were, so this is nothing new. But at least Star Trek is culturally relevant again.
It's the push to become mainstream. And now, we've got movies worthy of taking on the old Star Wars films.
Let's see what Abrams will do with those new films.
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I'm actually looking forward to the new SW film, too. After what Lucas did to my childhood after 1983, I'd rather see someone like JJ Abrams who recognizes what was important about those movies take the helm.
I'm not expecting Oscar-winning material, but I am expecting something much better than the prequels -- and the bar is set low enough given how crappy those movies were that I think Abrams can jump over it.
I have no argument against that. Some people like some movies and some people don't. It's totally cool that some folks didn't like this movie.
No more explanation is necessary because "I just didn't like it" is about the best reason a person could give.
But when people say they didn't like it because it had plot holes and continuity inconsistencies, I find myself wondering how they liked any Star Trek, ever. Every series had continuity errors and plot holes. Every movie had continuity issues and plot holes.
I just don't know why, "I just didn't like it" isn't good enough. Nobody can tell you you're wrong about that because it's based on personal opinion.
I remember people hating on Generations when I walked out of the movie theatre, saying that it completely ruined Star Trek because they killed off Kirk, and that it was just an excuse for them to make the next movies about the Enterprise-D cast.
Then I remember people hating on First Contact, saying that the Borg were cheapened and it completely ruined Star Trek because the Borg weren't the threat they were supposed to be, and it went against previously established canon that there was no 'leader' of the Borg, like the Queen.
Then I remember people hating on Insurrection because it was... well... it was Insurrection. They ruined the characters of Worf and Data by pigeonholing them into comic relief despite everything Worf had gone through with DS9 at the time, and Data's previous quest to become 'more human' instead made him resort to adolescent antics.
Then I remember people hating on Nemesis because it ruined star Trek by cheapening the romulan villains and the bizarre plot point where a human telepathic clone of Picard becomes the leader of the Romulan Empire. Another Soong android is needlessly introduced to provide more comic relief, and the Argo was hated on because it was needless special effects. People expected the 'ultimate' Romulan movie where they were finally given their due to be the villains they were never able to be -- and instead we got another dumb evil clone movie.
... so yeah, people hating on the JJ films? This is par for the course. Every single movie I witnessed with other people resulted in the points I mentioned above. And you're absolutely right. It's okay to just say "I hated it.", but to try to justify it by comparing it to previous films is just funny to me.
Yeah, what was with that anyway? Don't get me wrong, I like seeing a beautiful woman in her underwear as much as the next guy, but was there ANY reason for that scene other than that? Why would she be dressing in front of the captain, in a shuttle? I don't get it. Maybe I missed something. It just didn't seem very realistic to me.
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
Whether you like or dislike the previous film, it was it's OWN story still. A little over the top (Hobus supernova, really?) for my taste, but it's own story.
This just felt so...rehashed in some ways. They borrowed so much stuff from other areas of Star Trek it just was...bleh.
Khan himself was the biggest thing. Eggs Benedict did a good job with it, I'm not denying that, but it was still Khan.
The Section 31 thing was probably the most annoying problem in it. I mean, they only mention it ONCE in the whole movie. If they had removed Khan (made him a different character) and kept it to the focus of Section 31, it would've been better. Yes, most of the movie-going public (aka Billy-Bob and Joe-Anne) wouldn't know who or what that is, so they wouldn't care. Hell, even people who know Trek and know what that is won't care because it isn't mentioned again in the movie!
If it was a throwaway line about it by like...say Scotty on the Vengeance finding a Section 31 uniform and being confused by who it was, ok, I'd be alright with that. But it was said by Admiral Marcus himself, one of the primary antagonists, which usually means a point is supposed to be important, yet again, it's only ever said once However, this does lead me to...
Admiral Marcus. Robocop made him an interesting character, but he still felt like a rather cliched 'Evil Admiral of the week' which Star Trek has done a bunch of times in the past, even in a couple other movies. (Insurrection and ST VI to be exact).
If they had just focused more on one over the other, I feel it would've been better. Either go ALL out on the Section 31 aspect of it, just giving everyone a quick run-down of who they are and what they do, allow the characters to react, and then go from there. OR taken that out completely and focused more on Khan, keeping the movie more focused on that, so it would be mostly like how it is actually.
that is true.
feel free to watch Insurrection and the Search for Spock over and over again instead.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
Plot is terrible and full of holes, of course. SW's prequels too, but at least JJ doesnt pretend he has a good plot resulting in a boring and embarrasing experience as SW's prequels, he only fills the movie with awesome visuals. So yeah, I'm waiting for his new SW too xD
Then again, I'm also a life-long Transformers fan who loved Revenge of The Fallen, so what do I know? =p
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I enjoyed the homage. It showing you that even in an alternate universe these two characters would both do the exact same thing to save the ship by sacrificing themselves. if spock has 'died' again then i dont think i would have liked it. but the switch is what made it work.
i thought that was really clever and did not see it as a rip off but as a deliberate way to keep the new trek tied to the old one.
i do see how people might feel that its just copying what went before and would rather see something totally different but it worked for me.
....walks away whistling...
Pine got Kirk down great ... even the way he sat in the chair was in reference to the way Shatner did it.
Well done homages IMO.
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---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
I like your fanboy face avatar <(OMG a sequal!) XD
yes, I am a fan. Enjoyed every action packed minute of it.
I am also thrilled the Star Trek genre has been opened up for my 7 yr old daughter as well..... These two movies were her introduction to Star Trek.
She likes it so much that we have watched all of DS9, half of TNG and quite a few ToS, Ent and Voy episodes on Netflix since. What a wonderful thing !
I ask, "what should we watch tonight?" .... she replies "I want to see Data !".
There are few things better than spending Trek-time with my little girl.
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---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
What got me into Trek was when UPN began showing the TNG reruns, ive been a TNG fan ever since, and why when I first started to play my first question was, when do I get a Galaxy class
I still think there should be a an all cat version, im currently working on a childrens book using an all cat crew, if the publisher takes it I will make more and still keep the name CatStarSTO because it all started with my Caitian in THIS game!
...but only so far. I enjoyed the little S31 reference and the TWOK stuff, but when it got to Kirk dying and Spock shouting Khaaaaaan, it just felt too much like a direct copy. Kirk's death also just felt totally unneeded. There was not much of an emotional effect since he's magically brought back to life by a doctor who plays with dead tribbles in his spare time (I loved that they put a tribble in the movie, at least).
Oh, and transwarp transporters. That seemed like "We need an excuse to get Khan to Qo'nos".
...somehow I picture the planetary transporter pad systems from Galaxy Quest, hmm.
"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!" (Tim Allen shakes from emotional trama) XD
I may have to have a look after all, im curious on how he managed to crash the enterprise into earth =O.o= "Other way mate!"
it was Khan ...and it wasn't the Enterprise
dont believe everything youtube satires tell you...
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---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
I liked them myself too. I'v enever been able to understand the pyscho fan mindset myself... you(not you specifically) LOOOVVEEE a show, until they make new stuff that is in some way different.
My character Tsin'xing
I agree, that was purely gratuitous.
But hey, not like that's something new.
Nimbus III:
Kirk: "Okay, the terrorists are just over that ridge. They have no idea we're here."
Spock: "Excellent. An ambush will almost certainly succeed. I'll circle around to the other side and we can--"
Kirk: "No. I have a better idea. Uhura, I need you to get completely naked. Also, does anybody have any fans?"
Uhura: "Huh?"
I wonder, if young Kirk had made it to the Nexus, what would the movie have been rated? ^^;
http://www.myconfinedspace.com/2013/03/11/pixar-tackles-star-trek-ii/
Found the Romulan picture while browsing google images, it led to this page