On the one hand, the naming and shaming policy is there for a very god reason. Many posters have already succinctly explained why its a bad idea to let people name names on these fora.
On the other hand, there is a sense that nothing is, or indeed can, be done to alert the community to that tiny percentage of bad apples that can really ruin ones enjoyment of this game.
In my opinion, the biggest problem isn't what happens here on these fora, its the fact that once someone does make a complaint there is never any feedback.
Again, for apparently good reasons, policy is that sanctions are unannounced.
[This] does create a situation where a complainant can never know if a) their complaint was upheld and b) what happened to any offenders.
This lack of feedback creates a situation where the perception is that nothing is being done, that Cryptic simply does nothing to protect legitimate players from that tiny percentage of bad actors.
Seems to me, that its not the forum rules that need modifying, but rather that Cryptic need to give some feedback on their enforcement of the rules.
And again, you're hitting the nail on the head. The lack of feedback on what does seem to count as 'rule so and so being broken here, but in a similar situation not being broken there' is what's the most frustrating for me as I go about my way both in-game and out when submitting reports.
Not quite the issues at hand here, but lack of feedback is a major concern.
Ok, now let's say Cryptic found your complaint invalid and told you it wasn't upheld. Are you then going to go on a forum and in-game chat rant about how much Cryptic sucks? I mean, we only see those about twice a week from people now. Why would you, or someone like you be any different if they felt they were slighted?
Obviously, moderation decisions are subject to the Community Guidelines stating that such conflicts with how we should go about Disputing Infractions.
[...]
and going on a holier-than-thou "vigilante" crusade aint gonna do you or anyone else any good.
[...]
You seem to mistake a reminder not to go about 'naming and shaming' in the thread dedicated to discussion of the still unwritten rule about such as a crusade.
Its notice has three uses.
One, a guideline for all users to be aware of while posting in this thread.
Two, a guideline for all users to not actively contribute to a derail.
Three, a helpful way to minimize clutter once reports are handled; that way, moderators won't have to go about patrolling for the reported message being quoted anywhere.
I am nothing if not a stiffler for good appearances and presentation, and few things irk me more than seeing entire threads swept blank with moderation notices
This is a private game, not a democracy. As such, claims or other information of other people regarding infractions are only to be sent to PWE personnel. As we have no way to "substantiate" any information or screen captures you post, it is relatively pointless and amounts to trolling to make them public. Any questions regarding an infraction and a player are between PWE and that player; and no one else.
I hate to just quote the entirety of Rinkster's post, but the lack of feedback or even simply raising public awareness against people playing within the rules of the game in a fashion that is simply toxic just doesn't help at all. It helps neither moderation and forums enjoyment, nor our enjoyment of Star Trek Online.
____GREAT LEADERS LET THEIR ACTIONS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
you will never have the right to gain any knowledge of activity and/or moderation of another players account. Why cant you get this through your heads?
account privacy is one of the major bulleted points in the games ToS and rules and guidlines.
You even signed your agreement to this policy !
no matter how hard you cry about it, you arent going to be able to report someone, and then sit back and wait to see his/her name pop up on a infraction board listing, or get a 'result of action against another account' just to satisfy your vigilante sense of satisfaction.
.
deal with it and move on. It's not that hard to understand.
_______________________
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
no matter how hard you cry about it, you arent going to be able to report someone, and then sit back and wait to see his/her name pop up on a infraction board listing, or get a 'result of action against another account' just to satisfy your vigilante sense of satisfaction.
.
And if you can show me where, in this thread, I have suggested anything of the sort I'd first be amazed and secondly I'd apologise for badly misrepresenting my thoughts.
I've seen little sense of vigilantism in this thread.
However, what I do see is a situation where people are trying to find a way to balance the account privacy you rightly uphold with the desire to know that moderation is actually happening.
Because, if people are confident in the moderation system, the desire for naming goes down. Simple as.
And if you can show me where, in this thread, I have suggested anything of the sort I'd first be amazed and secondly I'd apologise for badly misrepresenting my thoughts......
...and why are you assuming that I am talking to 'you' ?
.
_______________________
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
I'm not 'railing against' anything...again, those are 'your' words, not mine.
Interesting.
You brought up and, rightly, suggested that the idea of someone making a complaint and having the name of their alleged persecutor splashed for all to see was wrong.
Thing is, nobody has actually suggested such a thing in this thread, as far as I'm aware.
The technical term for such a debate tactic is a straw man argument. Which, judging by other posts I've read of you, is not something you regulary indulge in.
Therefore, I'm asking you to point out if I've missed someone bringing such a solution up......other than you.
I hate to just quote the entirety of Rinkster's post, but the lack of feedback or even simply raising public awareness against people playing within the rules of the game in a fashion that is simply toxic just doesn't help at all. It helps neither moderation and forums enjoyment, nor our enjoyment of Star Trek Online.
You can raise public awareness of things in the forums, you just can't name people. If you have information showing a possible infraction, report it to PWE and they send you an acknowledgement.
... you win a cookie for standing your ground in a name calling session. if you want to resort to name calling and call me straw man, that's OK.... I can take it.
but the facts still stand.
- the rules and policies are clearly outlined:
- You agreed to those terms.
- no moderation will ever be discussed outside of activity of your own account.
deal with it.
or call me out again if you dont like what you are hearing, or take things I say out of context, or call me a straw man again ..... it's your prerogative.
:rolleyes::rolleyes:
_______________________
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
you will never have the right to gain any knowledge of activity and/or moderation of another players account. Why cant you get this through your heads?
account privacy is one of the major bulleted points in the games ToS and rules and guidlines.
You even signed your agreement to this policy !
no matter how hard you cry about it, you arent going to be able to report someone, and then sit back and wait to see his/her name pop up on a infraction board listing, or get a 'result of action against another account' just to satisfy your vigilante sense of satisfaction.
.
deal with it and move on. It's not that hard to understand.
the rules and policies are in place, everyone signed em.
not going to argue with you.
I have certainly signed the Terms of Service on using the service, but that won't immediately prevent healthy discussion on keeping the community sharp. Heck, that's why I made the thread! Exactly to discuss the merits of the rulings of 'naming and shaming' (kinda covered!) and what they are based on, and that there is apparently no need to clarify this despite obvious objections against this nebulous defense.
At the least, the Community Guidelines could reflect this rule more effectively, since it's pretty much a named unwritten rule.
You can raise public awareness of things in the forums, you just can't name people. If you have information showing a possible infraction, report it to PWE and they send you an acknowledgement.
And again, pointing to the OP, these infractions are big no's that you can't raise public awareness against. They're not rule infractions per say.
Example. Nothing keeps a fleet leader from kicking the entirety of their fleet off the roster after achieving all fleet holdings from investments of all members being collected and cemented as base upgrades. Would you ever join this fleet again, or have anything to do with that fleet leader again? Well, tough cookies, you can't (publically) call them out on this behaviour.
Because technically, no Terms of Service were broken.
____GREAT LEADERS LET THEIR ACTIONS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
And again, pointing to the OP, these infractions are big no's that you can't raise public awareness against. They're not rule infractions per say.
Example. Nothing keeps a fleet leader from kicking the entirety of their fleet off the roster after achieving all fleet holdings from investments of all members being collected and cemented as base upgrades. Would you ever join this fleet again, or have anything to do with that fleet leader again? Well, tough cookies, you can't (publically) call them out on this behaviour.
Because technically, no Terms of Service were broken.
Yes, no rules were broken. So, yes, tough cookies on that. If you want to argue on a postential TOS change on fleet leaders having that capacity, fine.... there is no circumstance that I would back your ability to name and shame people however. Simply because it is too easily abused.
... you win a cookie for standing your ground in a name calling session. if you want to resort to name calling and call me straw man, that's OK.... I can take it.
but the facts still stand.
- the rules and policies are clearly outlined:
- You agreed to those terms.
- no moderation will ever be discussed outside of activity of your own account.
deal with it.
or call me out again if you dont like what you are hearing, or take things I say out of context, or call me a straw man again ..... it's your prerogative.
:rolleyes::rolleyes:
And this why people say these topics turn into flame wars in the end. He is not calling you a "straw man". It is not a derogatory term. a "straw man" is a logical fallacy where a person debates their position with a similarly weak position. There is/was no name calling done.
... you win a cookie for standing your ground in a name calling session. if you want to resort to name calling and call me straw man, that's OK.... I can take it.
but the facts still stand.
- the rules and policies are clearly outlined:
- You agreed to those terms.
- no moderation will ever be discussed outside of activity of your own account.
deal with it.
or call me out again if you dont like what you are hearing, or take things I say out of context, or call me a straw man again ..... it's your prerogative.
:rolleyes::rolleyes:
I didn't call you a straw man at all.
i said that, arguing against the discussion in this thread by suggesting that anyone has called for the public naming and shaming of people via the ticker tape ingame is a strawman argument.
This is an important issue for many people. While there are many here debating the need for change, a counterpoint argument would be most welcome.
I'm a huge fan of the dialectic method.
Thesis, antithesis, synthesis.
I was hoping you, or someone like you, would provide a cogent antithesis to the central thesis of this thread.
However, employing strawman arguments fails to address the actual issues of the thread and can be seen as an attempt to derail a discuission.
i said that, arguing against the discussion in this thread by suggesting that anyone has called for the public naming and shaming of people via the ticker tape ingame is a strawman argument.....
Oh really...... ? nobody has said or implied that at all in this thread eh? :
....I would not be opposed to a 'venting deck' as it were,
....Highly agreed, if proof can be shown it should be allowed to be shown. Sending it to their staff does little to no good!!!
...Firswtly the complainant could recieve a message telling them whether their complaint has been upheld or not, and what sanctions have been applied.
... Cryptic could release a monthly statement with a list of sanctions applied that months. No names, just numbers and sanctions.
...justice must be seen to be done to be done.
It means that secret justice doesn't fulfill the requirements of justice.
... the lack of feedback or even simply raising public awareness against people playing within the rules of the game in a fashion that is simply toxic just doesn't help at all. It helps neither moderation and forums enjoyment, nor our enjoyment of Star Trek Online.
so...'nobody' has mentioned having anything of the sort in this thread ? ... interesting.
waht is being asked for here is against the policy of the terms everyone signed, and does indeed violate the privacy of any moderation or activity on a personal account.
not gonna happen. it's been clearly stated, and there is nothing yo u can do about it. it's none of your business what happens to another persons account...ever.
.please....... do go on with your attack against my posting style, lack of proper linguistics and semantics, and assumptions about my positioning... that's your prerogative, like I mentioned before. .....
good luck with that.
_______________________
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
Yes, no rules were broken. So, yes, tough cookies on that. If you want to argue on a postential TOS change on fleet leaders having that capacity, fine.... there is no circumstance that I would back your ability to name and shame people however. Simply because it is too easily abused.
The only big change I want to see is an inclusion of the 'naming and shaming' within our community guidelines.
It's already being abused, and I have a backlog of reports to back that statement. Fleets and people are already being associated with behaviours by rampant abuse of this rule, further spinning 'naming and shaming' out of moderators' control and into easy derailment of threads. Worst case scenario, forcing moderators to go "welp" and just shut it down faster than Gordon Ramsay closes a bad kitchen.
____GREAT LEADERS LET THEIR ACTIONS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
In a nutshell: that determination is up to the Cryptic/PWE staff. They are -- and should, IMHO, remain -- the sole authority when it comes to determinining who is guilty of what -- even when things may seem clear to others.
completely agreed.
Now if they'd actually do it with some form of regularity.
He is not interested in discussing about the issue, he is only raging conflict, if you keep answering him, he will eventually drag the whole thread to a war.
There is a HUGE portion of the Players that feel them selves above everyone else, too arrogant and ignorant to discuss about something instead of forcing their POV.
TO THE OP:
I understand your feelings about this, Cryptic, PW specifically don't care at all about supporting players... this game is now only a gold mine and we are the miners.
When LoR went live, I reported a problem with the launcher, after two weeks they answered asking me to do the same tests that I already did. I solved the problem my self, posted about it in the ticket, even explaining how I solved the problem, then they asked me If I could make a tutorial for them... wait... WHAT??? I'm a players and I have to create a tutorial to your STAFF?
I agree that just a report on moderation actions could help a lot, with no names there at all, just the situation and action done.
But think about it, their staff is ordered to only care to what makes money to Perfect World. Don't blame them, blame those man in black-tie who never come to the forum, and more, never played any game.
-- "If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Jean-Luc Picard
I understand your feelings about this, Cryptic, PW specifically don't care at all about supporting players... this game is now only a gold mine and we are the miners.
Salt miners. Us STO folk are a salty lot
I would like to remain somewhat optimistic, however. Cryptic is owned by PWE. Cryptic develops new content and games for them, and must play a careful balancing act between the various IPs they have developed, are still maintaining, and are basically doing a juggling act with one arm and a wooden prosthetic.
Well, it's a mental image that helps me see light of things somewhat.
I agree that just a report on moderation actions could help a lot, with no names there at all, just the situation and action done.
But think about it, their staff is ordered to only care to what makes money to Perfect World. Don't blame them, blame those man in black-tie who never come to the forum, and more, never played any game.
That's a business to you.
____GREAT LEADERS LET THEIR ACTIONS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
To what purpose is 'naming and shaming' enforced? Does it still have a place in these forums with active moderation when people themselves perpetuate scummy, deplorable behaviour and are actually called out on it?
It's enforced by the mods, myself and the PWE Community Team, and warnings and or infractions, which can lead up to and include a temporary or permanent ban, will be handed out to offenders. If there is a thread or post that contains "naming and shaming", please report it. The best way to do so is via the link and instructions in my signature. Be sure to include a direct link to the thread/ post in question, and include any other relevant information.
Why is this rule not noted in our Community Guidelines? What is the 'naming and shaming' rule based on, given the existing guidelines today? Could provisions for this 'unwritten rule' finally be put to (digital) paper?
As noted by others, "naming and shaming" falls under the rules of 'Flaming and/or Trolling' and 'Harassing Material'. Also, don't forget these lines from the rules: Interpretation and enforcement of the Rules and Policies is at the sole and exclusive discretion of PWE. and PWE has the final say on all aspects of this community. If you have a problem, you may make a complaint to PWE directly through our support site, and not publicly on the website. Creating threads or posts that question or reference administrative decisions or potential administrative decisions, such as post removals and thread closures, is not permitted.
Lastly, we will never reveal information about actions taken on user, nor provide reports on moderation taken -- this would violate their and other users' privacy.
In the end, just enjoy the boards and your community, and report the very few posts that are not within the spirit of the forums.
If there is a thread or post that contains "naming and shaming", please report it. The best way to do so is via the link and instructions in my signature. Be sure to include a direct link to the thread/ post in question, and include any other relevant information.
I hope this won't mean my reports being counted as duplicates. But I will send the tickets later on today.
Could this be cleared up in the Community Guidelines, perhaps? Anyone just being lambasted with 'naming and shaming' by forum posters could not immediately get this from the publically posted rules.
Lastly, we will never reveal information about actions taken on user, nor provide reports on moderation taken -- this would violate their and other user's privacy.
Not so much actions being taken on users, but a bit of feedback along the lines of 'yes, rules were broken,' or 'no, no rules were broken' would also help a lot when a ticket has been resolved. But that's just another opinion on the ol' heap.
Thank you kindly for the response, at least!
____GREAT LEADERS LET THEIR ACTIONS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I remember when I played UO I always got a response from a GM. Might not have been the answer I was looking for but at least I got an answer. They have been around for 15 years now so they must be doing something right. Perhaps cryptic should take some pointers from Ultima. Yeah we all signed the tos so we could play but that doesn't mean the support system can't or should be improved. An automated response that I filed ticket# 12345678912345 is not a response to the issue being reported nor are the generic response you get from support when they lose a ticket for an unresolved issue.
Lastly, we will never reveal information about actions taken on user, nor provide reports on moderation taken -- this would violate their and other users' privacy.
In the end, just enjoy the boards and your community, and report the very few posts that are not within the spirit of the forums.
You really didn't get the point or just ignored it, not a surprise to me either.
We are tired of a under minimal support from your staff. Player issues, bug reports, in-game balance problems. You don't listen to the comunity, even those threads with really good ideas.
Not to say about that login queue when LoR went Live. PW never talked anything about this, never. What you make sure was that we knew that Gold and LTS players have their own priviliged queue. So after many many players bought gold and LT subscriptions, Cryptic started posting on Facebook about improving the servers and a like. So if you don't give us FEEDBACK, suspicious would rise everywhere, just like the OP is feeling about the moderation issues.
FEEDBACK is the main word here. Blizzard, Valve, even Mojang have better feedback with the comunity than you do.
Just because the game is F2P, does not mean we just don't have any right at all to request FEEDBACK, to recieve a minimal support from your Staff.
I really love this game, but the megatons of unanswered bugs, issues and the lack of regarding to te comunity is melting this game down.
Just give us a better feedback and start fixing some old an well known bugs in the game. Start fixing custome problems, that would be a nice start.
But I guess your team is focused in creating the next Lobi Store ship, because it would make more people open tons of Lock Boxes, thus buying Keys, and Zen...
-- "If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Jean-Luc Picard
so...'nobody' has mentioned having anything of the sort in this thread ? ... interesting.
.please....... do go on .....
i do wish these boards would allow the quote button to actually quote someones whole post.
To your point.
You are absolutely correct that, on the first page or so, a couple of posters argued for the ability to post so called proof.
Those posters were shot down pretty quickly by virtually everyone. It's a terrible idea and one that barely anyone supports. certainly nobody who takes a thoughtful or mature attitude to the game, or indeed life, supports.
i did suggest two possible fixes, the first involved giving feedback to a complainant on a strictly limited basis and under a strict embargo to not share that data. Much like the first rule of moderation on these boards is we dont talk about moderation.
The second suggestion specifically stated that absolutely no names would be attached to a general statement of types of action taken in a given month.
To represent either of those ideas as splashing names everywhere is to misrepresent those ideas.
My line about justice, now that one i can see in a reduction absurdio sense could end up with names everywhere.
But that would suppose everyone involved with the whole process is deeply unwise.
ETA i was called away and cross posted with Brans post. Apologies if I've made any redundent points.
Comments
And nobody in the thread suggested otherwise.
Can you please stop picking fights now?!
Not as huge a difference as you suggest I'm afraid.
Functionally they're pretty much the same statement, sorry.
Bingo.
And again, you're hitting the nail on the head. The lack of feedback on what does seem to count as 'rule so and so being broken here, but in a similar situation not being broken there' is what's the most frustrating for me as I go about my way both in-game and out when submitting reports.
Not quite the issues at hand here, but lack of feedback is a major concern.
Obviously, moderation decisions are subject to the Community Guidelines stating that such conflicts with how we should go about Disputing Infractions.
You seem to mistake a reminder not to go about 'naming and shaming' in the thread dedicated to discussion of the still unwritten rule about such as a crusade.
Its notice has three uses.
One, a guideline for all users to be aware of while posting in this thread.
Two, a guideline for all users to not actively contribute to a derail.
Three, a helpful way to minimize clutter once reports are handled; that way, moderators won't have to go about patrolling for the reported message being quoted anywhere.
I am nothing if not a stiffler for good appearances and presentation, and few things irk me more than seeing entire threads swept blank with moderation notices
I hate to just quote the entirety of Rinkster's post, but the lack of feedback or even simply raising public awareness against people playing within the rules of the game in a fashion that is simply toxic just doesn't help at all. It helps neither moderation and forums enjoyment, nor our enjoyment of Star Trek Online.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
account privacy is one of the major bulleted points in the games ToS and rules and guidlines.
You even signed your agreement to this policy !
no matter how hard you cry about it, you arent going to be able to report someone, and then sit back and wait to see his/her name pop up on a infraction board listing, or get a 'result of action against another account' just to satisfy your vigilante sense of satisfaction.
.
deal with it and move on. It's not that hard to understand.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
And if you can show me where, in this thread, I have suggested anything of the sort I'd first be amazed and secondly I'd apologise for badly misrepresenting my thoughts.
I've seen little sense of vigilantism in this thread.
However, what I do see is a situation where people are trying to find a way to balance the account privacy you rightly uphold with the desire to know that moderation is actually happening.
Because, if people are confident in the moderation system, the desire for naming goes down. Simple as.
...and why are you assuming that I am talking to 'you' ?
.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
Fair enough.
Can you quote anyone on this thread who has suggested what you rail against?
ie, the idea that if a complaint is upheld and acted on, the names of the guilty are flashed across the screen for all to see.
I'm not 'railing against' anything...again, those are 'your' words, not mine.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
Interesting.
You brought up and, rightly, suggested that the idea of someone making a complaint and having the name of their alleged persecutor splashed for all to see was wrong.
Thing is, nobody has actually suggested such a thing in this thread, as far as I'm aware.
The technical term for such a debate tactic is a straw man argument. Which, judging by other posts I've read of you, is not something you regulary indulge in.
Therefore, I'm asking you to point out if I've missed someone bringing such a solution up......other than you.
not going to argue with you.
deal with it.
.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
So, straw man argument.
Duly noted and, it has to be said, rather disappointed.
You can raise public awareness of things in the forums, you just can't name people. If you have information showing a possible infraction, report it to PWE and they send you an acknowledgement.
... you win a cookie for standing your ground in a name calling session. if you want to resort to name calling and call me straw man, that's OK.... I can take it.
but the facts still stand.
- the rules and policies are clearly outlined:
- You agreed to those terms.
- no moderation will ever be discussed outside of activity of your own account.
deal with it.
or call me out again if you dont like what you are hearing, or take things I say out of context, or call me a straw man again ..... it's your prerogative.
:rolleyes::rolleyes:
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
I think this guy means me with 'you'.
Not sure though! Especially when you refer to 'you' in plural! I am now the Royal Highness of Lombardy!
Jokes aside,
I have certainly signed the Terms of Service on using the service, but that won't immediately prevent healthy discussion on keeping the community sharp. Heck, that's why I made the thread! Exactly to discuss the merits of the rulings of 'naming and shaming' (kinda covered!) and what they are based on, and that there is apparently no need to clarify this despite obvious objections against this nebulous defense.
At the least, the Community Guidelines could reflect this rule more effectively, since it's pretty much a named unwritten rule.
And again, pointing to the OP, these infractions are big no's that you can't raise public awareness against. They're not rule infractions per say.
Example. Nothing keeps a fleet leader from kicking the entirety of their fleet off the roster after achieving all fleet holdings from investments of all members being collected and cemented as base upgrades. Would you ever join this fleet again, or have anything to do with that fleet leader again? Well, tough cookies, you can't (publically) call them out on this behaviour.
Because technically, no Terms of Service were broken.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, no rules were broken. So, yes, tough cookies on that. If you want to argue on a postential TOS change on fleet leaders having that capacity, fine.... there is no circumstance that I would back your ability to name and shame people however. Simply because it is too easily abused.
And this why people say these topics turn into flame wars in the end. He is not calling you a "straw man". It is not a derogatory term. a "straw man" is a logical fallacy where a person debates their position with a similarly weak position. There is/was no name calling done.
I didn't call you a straw man at all.
i said that, arguing against the discussion in this thread by suggesting that anyone has called for the public naming and shaming of people via the ticker tape ingame is a strawman argument.
This is an important issue for many people. While there are many here debating the need for change, a counterpoint argument would be most welcome.
I'm a huge fan of the dialectic method.
Thesis, antithesis, synthesis.
I was hoping you, or someone like you, would provide a cogent antithesis to the central thesis of this thread.
However, employing strawman arguments fails to address the actual issues of the thread and can be seen as an attempt to derail a discuission.
That is a pity.
Deal with it.
Oh really...... ? nobody has said or implied that at all in this thread eh? :
so...'nobody' has mentioned having anything of the sort in this thread ? ... interesting.
waht is being asked for here is against the policy of the terms everyone signed, and does indeed violate the privacy of any moderation or activity on a personal account.
not gonna happen. it's been clearly stated, and there is nothing yo u can do about it. it's none of your business what happens to another persons account...ever.
.please....... do go on with your attack against my posting style, lack of proper linguistics and semantics, and assumptions about my positioning... that's your prerogative, like I mentioned before. .....
good luck with that.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
EDIT: Or reading things out of context, themselves. Good to know I'm too late with this reply. Sigh.
The only big change I want to see is an inclusion of the 'naming and shaming' within our community guidelines.
It's already being abused, and I have a backlog of reports to back that statement. Fleets and people are already being associated with behaviours by rampant abuse of this rule, further spinning 'naming and shaming' out of moderators' control and into easy derailment of threads. Worst case scenario, forcing moderators to go "welp" and just shut it down faster than Gordon Ramsay closes a bad kitchen.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
completely agreed.
Now if they'd actually do it with some form of regularity.
just had to get another one in eh ?
seems like y'all are attacking me rather than dealing with the facts and policy terms that I am posting.
tsk tsk.
should I quote the agreed to policy of how personal accounts and privacy of persons and thier accounts are handled again ?
/
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
He is not interested in discussing about the issue, he is only raging conflict, if you keep answering him, he will eventually drag the whole thread to a war.
There is a HUGE portion of the Players that feel them selves above everyone else, too arrogant and ignorant to discuss about something instead of forcing their POV.
TO THE OP:
I understand your feelings about this, Cryptic, PW specifically don't care at all about supporting players... this game is now only a gold mine and we are the miners.
When LoR went live, I reported a problem with the launcher, after two weeks they answered asking me to do the same tests that I already did. I solved the problem my self, posted about it in the ticket, even explaining how I solved the problem, then they asked me If I could make a tutorial for them... wait... WHAT??? I'm a players and I have to create a tutorial to your STAFF?
I agree that just a report on moderation actions could help a lot, with no names there at all, just the situation and action done.
But think about it, their staff is ordered to only care to what makes money to Perfect World. Don't blame them, blame those man in black-tie who never come to the forum, and more, never played any game.
"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Jean-Luc Picard
Salt miners. Us STO folk are a salty lot
I would like to remain somewhat optimistic, however. Cryptic is owned by PWE. Cryptic develops new content and games for them, and must play a careful balancing act between the various IPs they have developed, are still maintaining, and are basically doing a juggling act with one arm and a wooden prosthetic.
Well, it's a mental image that helps me see light of things somewhat.
That's a business to you.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's enforced by the mods, myself and the PWE Community Team, and warnings and or infractions, which can lead up to and include a temporary or permanent ban, will be handed out to offenders. If there is a thread or post that contains "naming and shaming", please report it. The best way to do so is via the link and instructions in my signature. Be sure to include a direct link to the thread/ post in question, and include any other relevant information.
As noted by others, "naming and shaming" falls under the rules of 'Flaming and/or Trolling' and 'Harassing Material'. Also, don't forget these lines from the rules: Interpretation and enforcement of the Rules and Policies is at the sole and exclusive discretion of PWE. and PWE has the final say on all aspects of this community. If you have a problem, you may make a complaint to PWE directly through our support site, and not publicly on the website. Creating threads or posts that question or reference administrative decisions or potential administrative decisions, such as post removals and thread closures, is not permitted.
Lastly, we will never reveal information about actions taken on user, nor provide reports on moderation taken -- this would violate their and other users' privacy.
In the end, just enjoy the boards and your community, and report the very few posts that are not within the spirit of the forums.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
I hope this won't mean my reports being counted as duplicates. But I will send the tickets later on today.
Could this be cleared up in the Community Guidelines, perhaps? Anyone just being lambasted with 'naming and shaming' by forum posters could not immediately get this from the publically posted rules.
Additional clarification can only be good
Not so much actions being taken on users, but a bit of feedback along the lines of 'yes, rules were broken,' or 'no, no rules were broken' would also help a lot when a ticket has been resolved. But that's just another opinion on the ol' heap.
Thank you kindly for the response, at least!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You really didn't get the point or just ignored it, not a surprise to me either.
We are tired of a under minimal support from your staff. Player issues, bug reports, in-game balance problems. You don't listen to the comunity, even those threads with really good ideas.
Not to say about that login queue when LoR went Live. PW never talked anything about this, never. What you make sure was that we knew that Gold and LTS players have their own priviliged queue. So after many many players bought gold and LT subscriptions, Cryptic started posting on Facebook about improving the servers and a like. So if you don't give us FEEDBACK, suspicious would rise everywhere, just like the OP is feeling about the moderation issues.
FEEDBACK is the main word here. Blizzard, Valve, even Mojang have better feedback with the comunity than you do.
Just because the game is F2P, does not mean we just don't have any right at all to request FEEDBACK, to recieve a minimal support from your Staff.
I really love this game, but the megatons of unanswered bugs, issues and the lack of regarding to te comunity is melting this game down.
Just give us a better feedback and start fixing some old an well known bugs in the game. Start fixing custome problems, that would be a nice start.
But I guess your team is focused in creating the next Lobi Store ship, because it would make more people open tons of Lock Boxes, thus buying Keys, and Zen...
"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Jean-Luc Picard
branflakes read, replied and gave feedback in this thread .....
so therefore he doesnt get the point, is ignoring it, and is 'not' providing feedback ?
and is giving minimal effort to STO to boot ?.....
.... makes perfect sense to me ..... :rolleyes:
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---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
So yes, there is no Feedback, just making clear that they don't care about what "we" players think.
Therefore, to me you're just trying to create conflict and turn this thread to a War. Not answering you again.
"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Jean-Luc Picard
i do wish these boards would allow the quote button to actually quote someones whole post.
To your point.
You are absolutely correct that, on the first page or so, a couple of posters argued for the ability to post so called proof.
Those posters were shot down pretty quickly by virtually everyone. It's a terrible idea and one that barely anyone supports. certainly nobody who takes a thoughtful or mature attitude to the game, or indeed life, supports.
i did suggest two possible fixes, the first involved giving feedback to a complainant on a strictly limited basis and under a strict embargo to not share that data. Much like the first rule of moderation on these boards is we dont talk about moderation.
The second suggestion specifically stated that absolutely no names would be attached to a general statement of types of action taken in a given month.
To represent either of those ideas as splashing names everywhere is to misrepresent those ideas.
My line about justice, now that one i can see in a reduction absurdio sense could end up with names everywhere.
But that would suppose everyone involved with the whole process is deeply unwise.
ETA i was called away and cross posted with Brans post. Apologies if I've made any redundent points.