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I.R.W. prefix gone?
janetza
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Hello, I can't use IRW prefix since todays patch. There is no data in release notes so I suppose it is not intantional?
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[Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.
In-game handle @Janetza
[Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.
In-game handle @Janetza
Post edited by janetza#4790 on
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--Red Annorax
Vivat Res Publica Romulana Nova!!!
But seriously, that's unfortunate. Although I myself wouldn't use the IRW prefix in the "present" game era (although I most certainly would in the TOS era), for reasons I'm sure I've made quite plain in the Romulan Gameplay forum (to say nothing of my STO forum-wide signature), the choice should be available to those who would like to do so. I would hope that this is not intentional and will be rectified at the earliest possible opportunity. While it's not game-breaking, it is a significant concern of the players.
I'm also going to go ahead and guess that instead of cross-referencing and doing multiple tests with multiple warbirds in their ship slots to ensure that the I.R.W. prefix was, in fact, completely gone or unchoosable... they decided to just throw it out on the forums that it was gone after the patch since they just bought the Ar'Kif Tactical Warbird.
Just my speculation, since OP was extremely scarce on details and reproduction steps.
To the best of my knowledge, the only vessel we could leave that off on was the Risian corvette.
Romulan Fed side. RRW or USS on all.
Shared vessels like the t'varo RRW, IRW, USS
Mirror vessel RRW, IRW, USS, ARW
Federation Side: the NX vessel you have the option of none.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Ay, correct, I took tactical warbird on lvl30. Didn't know that prefix depends on a ship. Couldn't check as I deleted my lvl20 Mogai right after.
Thanks for clarification as it is important for my immersion.
Long live the empress!
[Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.
In-game handle @Janetza
VSS is only on the D'Kyr, the Mirror ships have their own special prefixes, etc...
IRW is only available on Romulan ships and it looks like it got left off the new one.
My character Tsin'xing
All the other Warbirds save for those two were built by the Star Empire (though I'm sure some have been built by the Republic too) and have generally be rechristened by the Republic. Hense why they can have the IRW or RRW prefix.
A shame really. I would very much like to see Dhelan, Ar'Kif, Ha'nom, Ha'pax, Ha'feh, and Daeinos Romulan NPC ships. Not just as Republic allies, but as Tal Shiar enemies whom I can fight.
Also, I remember that before my break, when there was no romulan faction, npc's had IRV prefix, which I understood as Imp Rom Vessel. What "W" stands for in IRW I don't know.
[Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.
In-game handle @Janetza
I thought it was United Star Ship?
Semi-related: how much aide was the Republic given that they can field so many brand new designs so fast?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
"This is Captain Janeway of the Federation Starship Voyager"...in that sense.
So it's the second "S" that's meant here, just like the "W" in "IRW" and "RRW" is only a part of the whole designation.
Pardon if I am being thick. But I do not recall a TNG or later that broke down the U.S.S.
Only one where Kirk explained it to Mitchell as United Star Ship, of the United Earth Space Probe Agency.
Based on Imperial Klingon Ship (or Starship), Imperial/Republic Romulan Warbird.
Shouldn't the Starfleet ships be United Federation Ship (Starship)?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
NP, let's try again.:)
USS stands for United Space Ship, that's right.
BUT usually they only refer to it as a "starship" without any of the other stuff.
For example, in "The Enterprise Incident", Scotty said: "If the Enterprise is taken by Romulans, they'll know everything there is to know about a starship".
Nothing more. So it's what they usually referred to it: starship, not the whole thing with united space.
In the same manner, the Romulans refer to their own ships as "warbird".
That's what jonsills mean when he/she explained what the "W" in "IRW" stands for, just like the second "S" in "USS" stands for starship.
A little bit clearer now?:)
Now, a lot of the Romulan ships were stolen from the Imperial fleet; thus, they would come equipped with transponders using a IRW (Imperial Romulan Warbird) prefix. Understandably, the Republic would prefer that you use the RRW (Romulan Republic Warbird) prefix; thus, with those new ships built exclusively by the Republic, you can't even equip an Imperial transponder.
The IRW prefix hasn't been "taken away", judging by the experiments of others - it just can't be applied to the very latest generation of Romulan Republic craft.
The simple fact is that it probably SHOULD be there, but they forgot. Undoubtedly it got omitted on the Vet ship when it was copypasta'ed from the Klink version. Similarly, it was omitted when they copypasted this one from whatever they copypasted it from.
So the solution to wildly guessing at logic that simply isn't there is to wildly guess at logic that simply isn't there. Good to know.
Actually my work did show romulan warbirds could get u.s.s. designations. . . .
Much, thank you.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
My character Tsin'xing
Because the sad truth is that the Romulan republic isn't a stand alone faction it's a symbiotic mini faction it depends upon a host faction such as the Klingon empire or the Federation, much in the same way a goa'uld/Tok'ra symbiote in stargate needs a human to survive.
That's why you can use u.s.s. or k.d.f. prefixes
It'd be akin to the united states and british navies using each other prefixes on their own ships. Never gonna happen, both countries are allies but they wouldn't do that simply because they are separate and distinct nations, unlike above topic.
[/SIGPIC]
Funny you mention that. As I recall, all of the British commonwealth countries (Canada, UK, Aulstralia, etc.) use a very similar prefex naming system. Something to the effect of HMS(military) or RMS(civilian) but with a letter changed reflecting that country (HMCS for Canada, HMAS for the Ausies). I can't easily find a side by side compairison online to confirm this without error of memory. I'm sure there is someone online who IS from a commonwealth nation who can correct my memory.
The problem with Heinlin's Razor (or Occam's Razor), is the simplest explanation might be the preferred answer to go to, but it isn't necessarily the correct one.
Here is the original logic. The Daeinos Warbird Destroyer is documented as being developed solely by the Romulan Republic, the same with the Ar'Kif and Ar'Kala Tactical Warbird. These two designs are the actual first two completely new ships to roll out of the New Romulus Shipyards. While the Daeinos was released first, the dev blog for the Ar'Kif does state that it is supposed to be the actual first Romulan Republic design launched from the shipyards. The Ar'Kala was the next iteration of the design, which is stated why the Ar'kif has harsher lines -- so they would be subsequently corrected in the Ar'kala design by Republic engineers.
The Daeinos Warbird destroyer subsequently can be considered the 2nd or 3rd design launched from the Republic. But it too, was specifically stated to be designed solely by the Romulan Republic. We can easily attribute it being released first solely to it being a veteran reward which was released in a bundle rather than an intention to make it the chronological 'first' new Republic Warbird released.
Which brings me to the other arguement players make. That if the reason the Daeinos and Ar'Kif and Ar'Kala have the RRW Prefix because the Romulan Star Empire did not build them and thus would not have the ships, then logically the Ha'apax, Ha'feh, and Ha'nom would also only have the RRW prefix, correct?
Except those three ships are firmly established as not being Republic designed ships, but are -- in fact, Romulan Star Empire designs.
Although it is true I can't recall any of the three ships being seen as RSE NPCs, the fact it is established in the lore of STO itself means it is, in fact, true.
The Haakona Advanced Warbird (the upgraded version of the Ha'apax) states (on the C-store):
The Haakona Advanced Warbird was designed based on stolen plans for the U.S.S. Prometheus, a powerful Federation Escort. Utilizing these plans, the Romulan Star Empire was able to design their own version, merging the design of the D'deridex with advanced Federation technology.
That means that the Ha'apax is a Romulan Star Empire design (and thus eligible for the IRW prefix), as is the Haakona (since it is the upgraded version of it). This means that the Ha'feh and Ha'nom warbirds (which are likewise stated to be developed in tandem with the Ha'apax) are also Romulan Star Empire designs, and thus eligible for the IRW prefix.
Furthermore, if the ship was designed based on stolen plans of the U.S.S. Prometheus (from Message in a Bottle), you'll see that because the RSE was very much active back then, that the design for the ship is over 30 years old. Far before the formation of the Romulan Republic.
It's right there in the lore itself that these three ships were RSE designs, while the Daeinos, Ar'kif, and Ar'kala warbirds are Romulan Republic designs. And thus do not have the IRW prefix. They get the RRW prefix.
It may not be a simple explanation, but it is a factual one, based on citations in-game and not personal conjecture.
But how does this cover the Mirror versions, which are and never have been in Empire service? By this logic, they should be limited to ARW and RRW, and perhaps allied registry. But they are not, one can IRW them just fine.
The other reason why the IRW prefix should be available, period, is that at one point in the storyline, you actually work for the Tal Shiar. This means you would, at very least, have a forged Tal Shiar ship registry, otherwise they'd sort of notice this. Originally, I recall hearing that the IRW prefix would even be a reward for doing those missions, although this idea may have been dropped for various reasons and just left universally available.
The fact is, no matter what explanation you go for, there are holes, inconsistencies, and justifications you can throw for anything. However, I believe the true story is simply that someone dropped the ball somewhere. This explanation, unlike the others, is entirely consistent and entirely plausible.
Speaking of HMS, HMS should be an allowed prefix on alien ships used by Fed captains. This is canonically supported.
As far as the Mirror Warbirds go, because they are based on Empire designs, I don't see why you couldn't give them an IRW prefix. There's nothing in the lore that says the Mirror Universe ships didn't fall into the hands of the RSE, and given the Lobi Consortium are the ones taking them off the hands of the tholians -- it's perfectly plausible that they'd see the RSE as a potential buyer, not just the Romulan Republic. As far as the Ferengi go they'll just as readily accept the Romulan Star Empire as customers as they would the Romulan Republic.
The only real inconsistency I can think of is the Commander's Gig, which was an RSE design, but only has the RRW prefix (in addition to the USS or 'None' option). Which could be explained as Cryptic 'dropping the ball'.
I think looking at it in that way is intellectually dishonest. Yes, there are holes and inconsistencies. We can either say they are mistakes, or we can try to use what currently exists to form explanations.
I can take your approach and go one step further and say there are holes and inconsistencies in Star Trek in general, and instead of trying to justify it -- I can just say that it's a TV show and a fictional setting so trying to put logic to a fictional setting that is often contradictory and inconsistent is an exercise in futility in of itself. Then I'd have no reason to argue or debate Star Trek at all.
I mean if we took that approach, we'd never have the klingon augment storyline in Enterprise, for trying to explain why klingons in TOS didn't have lobsters on their heads. We could have just said "Makeup constraints in the 60's prevented that from happening."
This may seem like a straw man argument, but I see it in the same way for STO. We can either write things off as mistakes by Cryptic, or use what lore there is to justify and explain what otherwise couldn't be explained.
In my case, I think that the lore speaks for itself why the Warbird Destroyer and Tactical Warbirds are RRW ships only while others can have the IRW prefix, but I'm not going to say without a doubt that it's intentional. It could be a bug, but I just don't think it is.