Crystalline catastrophe score fix plz

tinkerbelch

Crystalline catastrophe
Currently it appears score is determined by both hull damage done and heals.
Please fix it so self heals don't count on score. This is exploitable.
Also eliminate spam healing at full health. Only actual hull damage healed on other players should count.

macronius

Have to disagree here with you. I think the devs got this right by not making it a DPS arms race for once. I almost never get 2nd or 3rd and only once did I get 1st place on my tank / cruiser.

Finally there is an elite mission that rewards supports ship. Could it stand some tweaking with spam healing and healing P2W consoles ... sure. But overall it is a good approach.

topset

macronius wrote: »

Have to disagree here with you. I think the devs got this right by not making it a DPS arms race for once.

While I agree with the sentiment, I'm not so fond of the execution. Getting points for self-over-healing is a bit silly, I can see the OP's point.

Not worth the hassle though, the items you get from "winning" are junk anyway - you only run it for the marks.

trekkerchick

It counts healing? Even self healing?
So far I've placed 1st every time I've done it except once. Never getting hit by a shard, never attacking it while charging. Never getting hit by the wave.... So never having to heal.*

In fact, those that sit there camping it and letting the CE heal it's self of them like candy tick me off because they just make it take longer to finish. Though I always suspected they let it heal off them on purpose so it would take longer, to have more time to use their "leet deeps" trying for 1st...

verline1

trekkerchick wrote: »

It counts healing? Even self healing?
So far I've placed 1st every time I've done it except once. Never getting hit by a shard, never attacking it while charging. Never getting hit by the wave.... So never having to heal.*

In fact, those that sit there camping it and letting the CE heal it's self of them like candy tick me off because they just make it take longer to finish. Though I always suspected they let it heal off them on purpose so it would take longer, to have more time to use their "leet deeps" trying for 1st...

CE doesn't heal off shards any more, it has a set regen that grows stronger over the course of the fight. In fact they had to nerf the regen a bit.

I take first almost all the time in my recluse, and I only heal when I need too, which is usally when it starts getting too many stacks and its random beams start hitting really hard, or I get aggroed by large crystals or someone drags them across me. Which surviving being hit by the crystals isn't easy, most that just let them hit them are going to end up very dead.

Im in a carrier, most of my dps is front loaded, so sitting still and backing out of the AoE radious when its charging is my optional attack option.

What it does get off shards its a stacking buff that increases the amount of damage it does, same way the blast AoE get stronger, and seems to charge faster, the more people that are shooting it while its charging. And without a drain, syphon power, or a sub nuc, those stacks can get problematic.

trekkerchick

I just realised it probably came off like I was bragging.. I didn't mean it like that. Just that I rarely ever need to heal, don't get hit, not even it's hard focus most of the engagement. But I'm still able to place 1st consistently. So from my point of view I'm dubious about healing, self or otherwise, being included in the outcome.

It sounds like you experience the same I have. Following the mechanics, not being a tool, and not having to heal from it, and still placing consistently.

aarons9

the scoring is broken..

ive gotten 1st place and never shot the CE before.

i mostly get 1st place on my engineer and science the most.. ive only gotten it like one time on my tac.. mostly because my tac doesnt heal at all.. just fly away and regen.

healing is over weighted.. it counts too much towards the score..

you can put every healing ability on your ship.. fly in and just scroll through them and get 1st place.

verline1

trekkerchick wrote: »

I just realised it probably came off like I was bragging.. I didn't mean it like that. Just that I rarely ever need to heal, don't get hit, not even it's hard focus most of the engagement. But I'm still able to place 1st consistently. So from my point of view I'm dubious about healing, self or otherwise, being included in the outcome.

It sounds like you experience the same I have. Following the mechanics, not being a tool, and not having to heal from it, and still placing consistently.

Healing was added because otherwise everything is a dps race, which throws several ships, setups, and engineers in general to the way side.

there is enough, only dps matters, in this game as is, this is why it generally gets called escorts online, remove healing counting towards loot and you have what, dps, so engineers have no captain cool downs that seriously affect their dps and are not replicatable by doffs. Sci captains can sensor scan, but that helps everyone, so that leaves tac captians, who will be king of the hill since one of their damage buffs only works for them.

A while back they removed the scored loot from stf placement, why, because 9 times out of 10 it was a tac captian that won, the reason, only dps mattered, no healing.

Why people feel the need to throw healing under the bus in favor of dps always boggles my mind, your essentially saying anyone that plays any sort of support, or anything other then raw damage dealing, should go soak, and get nothing. granted power creep and escort def/hull have pushed the need for tanks or dedicated healers to the way side, but why push them more out of the game.

Should over healing count, no, but that's a different argument, and anyone with a borg set is going to have it happen periodically.

and the large crystals are lethal enough, and yes I still and eat them, that really only a hand full of people can just sit and eat them, and typically blow ever res cool down they have to do it, which doesn't always save you.

and lets be honest the lack of need of dedicated healers these days has pushed most builds into carrying self healing, and if your not carrying self healing, well that means your relying on hull regen/resists, or a dedicated healer.

and ill be dead honest taking out the over healing, if its even factored in, is a good move. But any time someone brings up "taking healing out all together" they only come across as a whiny dps, who is mad that dps isn't the only thing that matters.

I'm not sure were, but some were, MMO's picked up a sudo FPS mentality, were if your not doing damage obviously your not important, among many players, and its spread much like a virus or cancer and has made some game communities so vile it can drive people off.

Granted sto is a poor example of a balanced system, and its getting more and more out of whack as it goes. but that's what happens when balance of ships, weapons, and captain types essentially goes out the window, and Im not talking trinity, just balance, competitive viability.

CE also vastly favors AoE, despite the fact that much of it is useless, since it fails to kill large or small crystals, should we also remove all aoe damage abilities from counting. I could go really far out there and claim that any dps during the charge up of the blast shouldn't count either.

aarons9

verline1 wrote: »

Healing was added because otherwise everything is a dps race, which throws several ships, setups, and engineers in general to the way side.

there is enough, only dps matters, in this game as is, this is why it generally gets called escorts online, remove healing counting towards loot and you have what, dps, so engineers have no captain cool downs that seriously affect their dps and are not replicatable by doffs. Sci captains can sensor scan, but that helps everyone, so that leaves tac captians, who will be king of the hill since one of their damage buffs only works for them.

A while back they removed the scored loot from stf placement, why, because 9 times out of 10 it was a tac captian that won, the reason, only dps mattered, no healing.

Why people feel the need to throw healing under the bus in favor of dps always boggles my mind, your essentially saying anyone that plays any sort of support, or anything other then raw damage dealing, should go soak, and get nothing. granted power creep and escort def/hull have pushed the need for tanks or dedicated healers to the way side, but why push them more out of the game.

Should over healing count, no, but that's a different argument, and anyone with a borg set is going to have it happen periodically.

and the large crystals are lethal enough, and yes I still and eat them, that really only a hand full of people can just sit and eat them, and typically blow ever res cool down they have to do it, which doesn't always save you.

and lets be honest the lack of need of dedicated healers these days has pushed most builds into carrying self healing, and if your not carrying self healing, well that means your relying on hull regen/resists, or a dedicated healer.

and ill be dead honest taking out the over healing, if its even factored in, is a good move. But any time someone brings up "taking healing out all together" they only come across as a whiny dps, who is mad that dps isn't the only thing that matters.

I'm not sure were, but some were, MMO's picked up a sudo FPS mentality, were if your not doing damage obviously your not important, among many players, and its spread much like a virus or cancer and has made some game communities so vile it can drive people off.

Granted sto is a poor example of a balanced system, and its getting more and more out of whack as it goes. but that's what happens when balance of ships, weapons, and captain types essentially goes out the window, and Im not talking trinity, just balance, competitive viability.

CE also vastly favors AoE, despite the fact that much of it is useless, since it fails to kill large or small crystals, should we also remove all aoe damage abilities from counting. I could go really far out there and claim that any dps during the charge up of the blast shouldn't count either.

the problem is most missions are timed.. and if you dont have dps you wont beat the clock.

with the power creep tho you can have really high dps non tactical ships.. you just have to know how to build them.

fraghul2000

Why people feel the need to throw healing under the bus in favor of dps always boggles my mind, your essentially saying anyone that plays any sort of support, or anything other then raw damage dealing, should go soak, and get nothing. granted power creep and escort def/hull have pushed the need for tanks or dedicated healers to the way side, but why push them more out of the game.

Because in the end, healing doesn't win the fight. As far as the CE is concerned it's:

a) putting out enough DPS to counter the CE's regen ability.

b) not letting the CE stack it's buff, either by avoiding or shooting shards or by removing the stacks.

Even if they change it by not rewarding overheal anymore, they're rewarding stupidity. Running into shards or staying in the wake (charging it up to 25 stacks so it does more damage) and healing yourself or others who did the beforementioned, is counterproductive to finishing the encounter, it is dragging it out, but it is rewarded dispropotionally high.

verline1

aarons9 wrote: »

the problem is most missions are timed.. and if you dont have dps you wont beat the clock.

with the power creep tho you can have really high dps non tactical ships.. you just have to know how to build them.

the thing is when the game only favors dps, those builds don't beat out pure escort builds on tac captains.

Just did one, pulled second, most likely because I pulled me pets in and forgot about them most of the second phase, only had to heal my self a couple times, torp spam carried me. Two torps plus a spread 2 and a spread 3, mesh weavers with 3 escort doffs in, plus wing commander so they hit 5 fast.

try exploiting the massive opportunity for AoE dps see what that nets you. and abuse that the CE is weak to kinetic, and strong to energy.

verline1

fraghul2000 wrote: »

Because in the end, healing doesn't win the fight. As far as the CE is concerned it's:

a) putting out enough DPS to counter the CE's regen ability.

b) not letting the CE stack it's buff, either by avoiding or shooting shards or by removing the stacks.

Even if they change it by not rewarding overheal anymore, they're rewarding stupidity. Running into shards or staying in the wake (charging it up to 25 stacks so it does more damage) and healing yourself or others who did the beforementioned, is counterproductive to finishing the encounter, it is dragging it out, but it is rewarded dispropotionally high.

Actually you can put cleaning up the tholians in there too, since ive watch a CE crash and burn because only two of us were killing them, and they built up. a single wave isn't threating unless your the focus of it and the CE, but all the waves.

trekkerchick

verline1 wrote: »

Healing was added because otherwise everything is a dps race, which throws several ships, setups, and engineers in general to the way side.

there is enough, only dps matters, in this game as is, this is why it generally gets called escorts online, remove healing counting towards loot and you have what, dps, so engineers have no captain cool downs that seriously affect their dps and are not replicatable by doffs. Sci captains can sensor scan, but that helps everyone, so that leaves tac captians, who will be king of the hill since one of their damage buffs only works for them.

A while back they removed the scored loot from stf placement, why, because 9 times out of 10 it was a tac captian that won, the reason, only dps mattered, no healing.

Why people feel the need to throw healing under the bus in favor of dps always boggles my mind, your essentially saying anyone that plays any sort of support, or anything other then raw damage dealing, should go soak, and get nothing. granted power creep and escort def/hull have pushed the need for tanks or dedicated healers to the way side, but why push them more out of the game.

Should over healing count, no, but that's a different argument, and anyone with a borg set is going to have it happen periodically.

and the large crystals are lethal enough, and yes I still and eat them, that really only a hand full of people can just sit and eat them, and typically blow ever res cool down they have to do it, which doesn't always save you.

and lets be honest the lack of need of dedicated healers these days has pushed most builds into carrying self healing, and if your not carrying self healing, well that means your relying on hull regen/resists, or a dedicated healer.

and ill be dead honest taking out the over healing, if its even factored in, is a good move. But any time someone brings up "taking healing out all together" they only come across as a whiny dps, who is mad that dps isn't the only thing that matters.

I'm not sure were, but some were, MMO's picked up a sudo FPS mentality, were if your not doing damage obviously your not important, among many players, and its spread much like a virus or cancer and has made some game communities so vile it can drive people off.

Granted sto is a poor example of a balanced system, and its getting more and more out of whack as it goes. but that's what happens when balance of ships, weapons, and captain types essentially goes out the window, and Im not talking trinity, just balance, competitive viability.

CE also vastly favors AoE, despite the fact that much of it is useless, since it fails to kill large or small crystals, should we also remove all aoe damage abilities from counting. I could go really far out there and claim that any dps during the charge up of the blast shouldn't count either.

I completely agree, and have been very vocal about the plague that is the DPS syndrome. And that no one bothers to heal because they get nothing out of it for themselves. Assuming they even have any heals on their ship at all.

I do heal other players. Why? because I get self gratification out of it. More often than not, I end up solely keeping the other 4 players in a Elite PUG alive. As a Tactical. In a Cruiser. And still holding aggro from my DPS alone.
Do I ever get a heal back when I'm in danger? Rarely ever, no. Maybe one science team or TSS every few days. So all I can do is evasive away from the fight to disengage and heal myself up. While they die one after another on a Cube or Gate. And it's extremely frustrating and pathetic that most people need some bloody personal reward just to help someone else. And since there isn't one. It's all about the DPS so they can get in and out as fast as possible and get their phat lewt to sell on the exchange.

Okay.. I'm angry... time to close the browser for a while...

havokreign

Nonsense, Grav Wells with decent particle gens crit for 45k + multiple times, while drawing in and CC'ing the shards as they pop.

CE is designed to favor exotics and resist straight energy DPS. If you want to be the Duke A#1 that way, go run an Omega.

futurepastnow

I do agree that heals should only apply when they actually heal something.

Hazard Emitters? It stops ticking when you're at 100%. A2SIF? Same green number no matter your health. Shield heals like TSS seem to also apply their heal even when you're at max shield health.

Heals applied at 100% aren't really healing and should not be counted. But I don't think they're going to change that just to help the scoring in events.

rylanadionysis

are you mad that someone other than a loldps tacscort is winning something?

i rather enjoy the fact that my KDF toon specced for threat/heal/tank owns the heck out of CE. It amuses me to watch purely dps specced tacs get fragged while im like, ho hum lets set up this doff mission while i win this thing.

The sheer amount of people in this game that do not know how to effectively heal themselves astounds me.

On top of that the same ship does respectable DPS as well!!! Combine those and unless someone else is doing the same thing as I am, I cannot lose. Learn from me and adapt.

Does not need fixed.

rylanadionysis

havokreign wrote: »

Nonsense, Grav Wells with decent particle gens crit for 45k + multiple times, while drawing in and CC'ing the shards as they pop.

CE is designed to favor exotics and resist straight energy DPS. If you want to be the Duke A#1 that way, go run an Omega.

This, my sci cappy tends to win the event for this reason as well (combined with self healing). Grav well and Tykens owns CE (singularity jump as well)

rylanadionysis

fraghul2000 wrote: »

Because in the end, healing doesn't win the fight. As far as the CE is concerned it's:

a) putting out enough DPS to counter the CE's regen ability.

b) not letting the CE stack it's buff, either by avoiding or shooting shards or by removing the stacks.

Even if they change it by not rewarding overheal anymore, they're rewarding stupidity. Running into shards or staying in the wake (charging it up to 25 stacks so it does more damage) and healing yourself or others who did the beforementioned, is counterproductive to finishing the encounter, it is dragging it out, but it is rewarded dispropotionally high.

Baloney. Like said previously, it amuses me to no end to watch high spike damage ships get one shotted while im putting up steady constant damage because I DONT DIE.

Its people like me that win that event and kill the CE, not the dps spikers that die every two minutes.

fraghul2000

Its people like me that win that event and kill the CE, not the dps spikers that die every two minutes.

Nope, you're just taking damage that can be avoided (probably by stacking up the CEs buffs in the process, making it harder for everyone else) and you're "tanking" an opponent that doesn't need to be tanked. In short: you're stupid.

If you really think you're doing something right or contributing to win the encounter, you're mistaken.

Please get a grasp on game mechanics and learn to play.

saekiith

fraghul2000 wrote: »

Nope, you're just taking damage that can be avoided (probably by stacking up the CEs buffs in the process, making it harder for everyone else) and you're "tanking" an opponent that doesn't need to be tanked. In short: you're stupid.

If you really think you're doing something right or contributing to win the encounter, you're mistaken.

Please get a grasp on game mechanics and learn to play.

So your Solution would be... Scrap Points for healing and keep it DPS Only...

Yepp, that is in NO way wrong...

This Game needs to turn 180? with this DPS TRIBBLE... make more encounters where DPS aren't Over the Top Important!

derbeelzebot

My TacScort actually pwns the **** out of CE scoring.


It's a Warbird with the Valdore console. Counting overheals on shields is broken and should be fixed.

fraghul2000

So your Solution would be... Scrap Points for healing and keep it DPS Only..

more like: keep points for healing, but subtract points for damage taken through shards, subtract points for staying in the wave, subtract points for every small shard that reaches the entity, subtract points for firing while it's charging, while on the other hand, massively add points for people who remove debuffs.

Currently, the easiest way to get to first place is through behaviour that is completely counterproductive to finishing the encounter, counterproductive to finishing it quickly and behaviour that's also hurting fellow players.

omegashinzon

tinkerbelch wrote: »

Crystalline catastrophe
Currently it appears score is determined by both hull damage done and heals.
Please fix it so self heals don't count on score. This is exploitable.
Also eliminate spam healing at full health. Only actual hull damage healed on other players should count.

You win the award for "Can't tell if seriously misguided or troll" of the day.

macronius wrote: »

... I think the devs got this right by not making it a DPS arms race for once. ...

rylanadionysis wrote: »

are you mad that someone other than a loldps tacscort is winning something?...Does not need fixed.

My sentiments, exactly.

topset wrote: »

...Getting points for self-over-healing is a bit silly, I can see the OP's point...

Spoken like a true DPSer. I rarely agree with anything you say anyhow. And with a Guy Fawks mask for a logo, ...well, I'll just leave it at that.

---

My end statement, FFS leave us who don't want to fly escorts all day long just 1 thing to do that we can still excel and even surpass DPSers at. Just 1 thing. CE is that thing. I have penty of DPS escort toons, I take them STFs or PvP. It's nice to fly my toons with otherwise crappy ships into CE and not feel outclassed. I love CE now, they finally got it right after about a year. Let it go.

cgta1967

omegashinzon wrote: »

Spoken like a true DPSer. I rarely agree with anything you say anyhow. And with a Guy Fawks mask for a logo, ...well, I'll just leave it at that.

dude..... look who's talking with the bronie elf ..... :P

" my little pony....dum te dum tum....."

haha

markhawkman

rylanadionysis wrote: »

are you mad that someone other than a loldps tacscort is winning something?

i rather enjoy the fact that my KDF toon specced for threat/heal/tank owns the heck out of CE. It amuses me to watch purely dps specced tacs get fragged while im like, ho hum lets set up this doff mission while i win this thing.

The sheer amount of people in this game that do not know how to effectively heal themselves astounds me.

On top of that the same ship does respectable DPS as well!!! Combine those and unless someone else is doing the same thing as I am, I cannot lose. Learn from me and adapt.

Does not need fixed.

It's also worth remembering that the event tallies your total damage output for the entire event. Any time you spend KOed is time you can't do damage. Thus, tanking like your life depends on it actually does increase your average DPS for the amtch.

questerius

tinkerbelch wrote: »

Crystalline catastrophe
Currently it appears score is determined by both hull damage done and heals.
Please fix it so self heals don't count on score. This is exploitable.
Also eliminate spam healing at full health. Only actual hull damage healed on other players should count.

So you want a balanced scoring system for all classes to go back to Escorts only?
I would argue that this system needs to be implemented in all STF

omegashinzon

cgta1967 wrote: »

dude..... look who's talking with the bronie elf ..... :P

" my little pony....dum te dum tum....."

haha

Dude..., that's Shinzon (from Nemesis) with Omegashenron's (DBGT) ears and facial features. "Omegashinzon", lol? Anyhow, no MLP here buddy and clearly you do not get the unique significance of his icon of which I shall speak no more.

cgta1967

sure it is fluffy cakes.... :P

omegashinzon

cgta1967 wrote: »

sure it is fluffy cakes.... :P

riiiight....

cgta1967

hey...you made an assumption based on an avatar...

...that means yours is fair game too don't it ?

anyway...just breakin your BB's for doin' that.

dont let it get your lil' ponies in a stampede.....

verline1

The over healing being removed from counting isn't unreasonable, healing that's doesn't heal anything, counting towards anything is silly, but that's if it even counts it. otherwise you can just spam engineering teams and SiF/hazard emitters and transfer shield strength on a fully healed ship the whole match, which would be silly.

Also destroying large shards, even if its turning them into small ones, so long as someone can remove the stacking buff off the CE isn't counter productive, its technically no different then blowing the shards up, just more dangerous to the one letting their ship get hit.