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nice game , a little disapointing though
chaser711
Member Posts: 2 Arc User
Alright, I played the game for a while and while the story idea is sound and seems exciting....it dies quickly. If the war is so very furious, with every known enemy coming after us, many time together, how can peaceful exploration be even considered? But it is, if that war were real, then every ship with a gun would be on call, just to stop them from getting to Earth, or Vulcan or a few of the other major planets. But the story stops after you get command, because thats all it was needed for. There are a few ideas I had that I think are missing to help make the game more interesting, since I like to play a bit of a pirate, undercover as a Federation Captain, my crew would be a little more lenient
about some things, like:
1) Salvaging weapons for the crew from fallen enemies ( already done in some form) this gives you the idea that you gain something from combat, and save money.
2) crew pay...they don't work for free do they? And Starfleet might pay them a salary but to get the best, you need to pay the best (bonuses anyone?)
3) attacking and capturing enemy ships...a little pirating goes a long way towards making ends meet. ( in some episodes I believe they used enemy ships they captured to get close to enemy targets and planets, so why cant we capture some and sell them or use them ourselves, forming our own unique fleets?) of course they would either need an emergency crew beamed over to pilot them or we'd be forced to tow them to the nearest starbase, and that might take a while, but I'm game for it.
4) disabled ships in space...theres a war going on, and we see a ship from time to time, why not scan it, get info from it, or send an away team and salvage weapons or goods to sell from it? Are we saying the biggest war in history doesn't leave disabled and abandoned ships? Total BS, wars are wasteful.Of course they might use the same idea to set traps for us, and marines waiting to capture US when we beam in looking for free stuff. But there would always be bases in need of materials, and the ships they asked to deliver them didnt make it...so theres an instant economy right there.
A few more details and ideas that would add more depth to the game. I'd like to play a Captain thats barely on the legal side, a pirate working for Starfleet, and making his living while doing missions they order him to.A cross between Kirk, Harry Mudd, and that freighter captain Picard helped that day that was broken down.
about some things, like:
1) Salvaging weapons for the crew from fallen enemies ( already done in some form) this gives you the idea that you gain something from combat, and save money.
2) crew pay...they don't work for free do they? And Starfleet might pay them a salary but to get the best, you need to pay the best (bonuses anyone?)
3) attacking and capturing enemy ships...a little pirating goes a long way towards making ends meet. ( in some episodes I believe they used enemy ships they captured to get close to enemy targets and planets, so why cant we capture some and sell them or use them ourselves, forming our own unique fleets?) of course they would either need an emergency crew beamed over to pilot them or we'd be forced to tow them to the nearest starbase, and that might take a while, but I'm game for it.
4) disabled ships in space...theres a war going on, and we see a ship from time to time, why not scan it, get info from it, or send an away team and salvage weapons or goods to sell from it? Are we saying the biggest war in history doesn't leave disabled and abandoned ships? Total BS, wars are wasteful.Of course they might use the same idea to set traps for us, and marines waiting to capture US when we beam in looking for free stuff. But there would always be bases in need of materials, and the ships they asked to deliver them didnt make it...so theres an instant economy right there.
A few more details and ideas that would add more depth to the game. I'd like to play a Captain thats barely on the legal side, a pirate working for Starfleet, and making his living while doing missions they order him to.A cross between Kirk, Harry Mudd, and that freighter captain Picard helped that day that was broken down.
Post edited by chaser711 on
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Comments
As you said you already have this in game to some extent, no real need to fix something that isn't broke, especially just to fulfil the niche of someone pretending to be a pirate instead of a military officer...
The economics of the future are somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th century...
This kind of does happen albeit in a somewhat roundabout way through the lockbox ships.
We don't disable stuff in this game, we blow it up. Matter-Antimatter meet and annihilate each other. Some elements of the Klingon campaign are more like this, so you might want to consider playing that side of things before you condemn the game entirely.
Again this would go a long way against the IP at least on the Federation side. If you want this kind of gameplay, I would suggest either KDF or KDF Aligned Romulan for alternative stories and mechanics.
I would also point out that this game isn't an EvE clone, so if that's what you want, you might be more at home there.
Because in the end this is Star Trek, and you just described Star Trek as a whole. Star Trek Insurrection, for example, took place during the height of the dominion war.... so where was the Enterprise-E (one of the most advanced ships of the time) during the height of the war? on the front lines in combat? No, it was hosting a diplomatic dinner.
So they could implement 1 or 2 missions here and there where you have to disable a ship instead of blowing it up without any diplomatic contacts or warnings, like in Star Wars
That was a whole lot of irrational defensive reaction. Most unfriendly and hostile.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
Starfleet (and the Romulan Republic) are goody-goody-friendly-types who aren't really in to piracy. When a captain shows up at ESD towing a couple of Tuffli's recently reported missing and tries to sell the crew as slaves to Admiral Quinn, somebodies gonna ask questions you don't want to answer
This would make a bit more sense for Klingons - it's implied that's how a lot of Nausicaans live. But, you're in the Klingon Defence Force - they're above such lowly acts!
Unfortunately, there aren't many games that let us live out our more nefarious fantasies. Such desires are often frowned upon.
While it would be nice to go around raiding federation outposts, looting colonies and holding up transport ships, I think many players would disapprove. Either KDF when the rewards are pathetic, or FED when the rewards are unbalancing.
The most common argument I see is that Marauding Doff assignments cover this, But somehow clicking a button isn't quite as satisfying as strafing a transport, beaming aboard & sending a bunch of officers to search for valuables while you ravage the captains daughter, or whatever...
As for the economics:
They Do work for free. This is Star Trek after all.
Starfleet crew are on your ship because they want to be. If they didn't want to go fluttering around the universe, they'd just go back to earth and open a cake shop, or be a scientist. Because that's just how things work among humies in the future.
KDF crew are there because they want to serve the empire, For Honor! And Glory! and Cookies! or whatever...
Romulan crew are "fighting for the survival of their race" by blowing up other members of their race. i.e. they're there out of necessity.
None of those really require financial motivations. Besides, any crew that needs to be paid can be bought. Not the sort of person I'd want serving me.
Disabling ships!
To do this properly, they'd need to introduce some pretty revolutionary game mechanics. Yes, we have subsystem targetting for temporarily disabling sybsystems (about 2 seconds), but this is of negligable gain.
There are several space-RTS's that allow you to semi-permanently disable systems of enemy ships. And I don't know about you, but I reckon it would be quite satisfying to have somebody cripple your ship, and then go on to destroy them. Before limping home for repairs.
Not literally of-course. That'd be a waste of time.
But I'm sure many of you have experienced that exhilaration? A recent example would be a recent game of SupCom, where my base defences proved inadequate, and a trio of Galactic Collosi got through, and quite effectively shattered my resource generation and unit production. I went on to win with a small fleet, and a few dozen aircraft. By far the most fun I've had in a long time, also the closest I've ever came to defeat.
Back on topic, search features would of course annoy the more casual players. Especially when random enemy fighter gets a lucky torpedo that knocks your shields out...
The day will not save them. And we own the night.
The Marquis?
Marauding? Attacking Freighters?
Grand Theft StarTrek?
No, they wouldn't. Nothing revolutionary is needed. Wotertool said it earlier. It is too much to ask of Cryptic. That doesn't make it revolutionary.
It's hardly irrational, though it is defensive. This isn't as you put it, "Grand Theft Star Trek"
and piracy (particularly with the Federation) is probably not within the IP licence agreement.
There are more aggressive game-play modes with the KDF side of things, that allow you more flexibility with regard to piracy, if that's what you really want, For example the Pi Canis Sorties as well as some of the neutral zone missions. There is, as someone else already pointed out also the foundry if you want to play as some kind of rogue, but by and large that isn't what this game is about.
I was simply recommending the OP try them before he writes off the whole game because it isn't an exact clone of some other space based MMOs which are more geared to pretending to be some kind of pirate and getting gear and loot in that fashion.
What about them? They are neither Starfleet or Romulan.
Yes, Marauding and attacking freighters. "Nausicaan" and "Pirates" are used almost interchangably in Enterprise. Plus, look at most of the Nausicaan NPCs...
I'm assuming that's what you meant, if not - please make your posts clearer, I'm not the most intelligent guy around...
No. As I've previously said, that's not very Star Trek. I was thinking more of an entirely new IP with no affiliation to anything that currently exists.
Please take the rest of my post into consideration.
The day will not save them. And we own the night.
Disabling and capturing ships would only really be viable in an authentic simulation style space combat similar to that seen in Klingon Academy or Bridge Commander.
But STO is far too arcadey for that.
The Maquis were wiped out, almost to a man, during the Dominion War (Chakotay, B'Elanna and a few still on Voyager were pretty much all that remained, aside from a few in prison, rescued by Ben Sisko - see episodes DS9 Blaze of Glory and VOY Hunters). It's not likely that the survivors, with Cardassia broken, are going to take up arms to become pirates - they saw themselves as freedom fighters.
There's plenty of room to roleplay in this game (it IS an MMORPG after all
The thing to remember above all is this game is a Star Trek game, veering too far from that would alienate the majority of the playerbase (something many feel is close thanks to so many lockbox ships). Personally, I RP that my Chel Grett IS a spoil of war and I'm keeping it!
Jo Cox 22.6.1974 - 16.6.2016
Uhm... yeah. That it was defensive is in itself irrational.
Among other things that evidence this is your invocation of the IP to dismiss one part of the OP, then immediately using an existing game standard that is the antithesis of the IP to dismiss another.
Never said it was.
With acknowledgment to Drow's observation that they were wiped out, their existence within the IP offers an alternative career path to Starfleet officers. Albeit a path that abandons Starfleet, they retain those ideals as they engage desperate measures according to their conscience.
Additionally, A career path that allowed for a less rigid adherence to regulations may be something that Section 31 could sponsor.
Its not that this is something I'm aching to see in the game. I just didn't like the tone
of tc10b's response to the OP, which was basically telling a new player to shut-up and go away.
In playing a KDF character recently, I've been given missions to attack and loot freighters. I was merely pointing out that piracy is not an affront to the standards of the KDF.
Ah. Considering it in that manner, I concur.
This idea has been discussed at length in multiple other threads. To continue to do so is to flog the dead horse literally.
The perception of tone in a text based forum is one that is entirely your own. You may have percieved it in such a manner, in that I percieve your responses as nothing more than obnoxious. I was simply pointing out that such ideas as put forward by the OP would not make it into the game because of restrictions on the IP. I was also pointing out that such gameplay mechanics already exist in other factions available in the game to a limited degree and he might want to play these before slamming the game on the forums demanding change.
It would also appear that given some of the OPs statements, he doesn't have a full understanding of the IP on which this game is based and may in fact, be confusing it with another popular franchise which is also an MMO. He also appears to lack understanding of real naval warfare.
The topic of renegades and civilian factions has been discussed already at length, and it would appear that Cryptic are not keen on adding it to the game in any particular hurry.
Which is precisely why I advocated the OP play this faction before deciding to demand overhauls to the game mechanics to suit him in such an obnoxious fashion.
Capturing a prize isn't necessarily piracy if done "in the name of queen and country" as it were. Even in the old days, though, said captured ship would immediately becomes the property of the victor's government. Nowadays, It would probably be sent to a unit who's job it is to reverse-engineer it's technology. It could also be used for infiltrating behind enemy lines, or simply for getting your crew back home to face court-martial after a side-trip to the past to pick up a couple of whales. As far as transports go, seizing the wrong one can turn a captain into a criminal, which would make an interesting story line.
The OP, seems to want to play a Privateer, though. Privateering is more or less frowned upon in the 21st century, and I certainly wouldn't expect to receive a Letter of Marque from a 24th century Starfleet. I don't know that much about the KDF, but I suspect that they might not trust person who makes a living in such a way all that much.
You're in the wrong IP.
Such characters (including the one in my user name and pic) aren't the heroes of this setting. Secondary characters, sure; comic relief, frequently. But not heroes.
Now, you can certainly find room to play such characters on the margins - e.g., my Gorn who professes to be a "simple freighter captain, nothing more", but is actually working for the eventual restoration of the Hegemony to self-rule - but don't expect mechanical support for such a playstyle, which must ultimately go to what the majority and/or least-common denominator wish to play.
(Heck, the need to do so is responsible for most of the least Trek-like elements of the game as it stands, like looting the burning hulks or disruptor-charred bodies of our foes. This should not, however, be taken as reason to widen the gap further.)
You can write and/or role-play whatever sort of character you like, but expecting the devs to support your unique concept is something else entirely.
Literally, really? And I guess the OP should have read the entire forum archive to know that. Just another example of a "shut-up" post.
You advised the OP to play a different game.
Demand? Making suggestions in a forum that asks for feedback is making demands?
"The perception of tone in a text based forum is one that is entirely your own."
Yeah, I see the IP canard tossed out quite a bit. Like most broad, vaguely defined, concepts it is often invoked selectively to support a predetermined position.
Two things wrong with this.
1) Established IP in Trek Lore states that economics of the future does not use or rely on money. The specifics of this is hazy, but the firm stance is that money is not used.
2) Even in modern militaries, the immediate command have zero control or concern for their crews pay or money in general. This isn't a McDonalds where each unit is concerned about profit margins and bottom lines. The bottom line for an Admiral is "How many do I Have" vs "How many do they have". The Economics of Warfare is handled by the bureaucrats in Congress. This is a good thing, because generals and admirals can focus solely on the task at hand, securing the homeland, without worrying about cost effective measures. They just use everything they have as best they can.
This idea is further complicated that, as mentioned before, the economics of lore states that money does not exist, so a "Pay raise" is a foreign concept.
Again, you are a military commander. You have little concern for "Making ends meet". you are concerned with "Making them meet ends". And again, this mechanic can be covered with the lockboxes, as you are a captain of an enemy ship.
There are a few story missions that involved a disabled ship. But as a mechanic, it is not needed nor wanted. It would just clutter up the system even more.
There has been asked for a civilian faction that can do this sort of thing. But as of right now, within the mechanics of the game, you are limited to playing as a Military Captain. Also, if a civilian faction was implemented, where would it fit in as at end game? Civilians can't go fight the Borg. They would not be concerned with or even bother helping the Romulans uncover the Iconian secret. Such an idea works better in more sandbox games as you can get around easier and have more freedom of gameplay. In the current model of this game, this is unfeasible and does not work as a mechanic.
... which is that if they don't like the tone of the shows and movies, they probably shouldn't be playing a game called Star Trek Online.
Even in the grittiest version of the setting to date, to the point that many have suggested it would have Gene rolling in his grave (to which others answer "Good",) the protagonists and heroes were still serving members of Starfleet - shown as a more outright military organization than ever before or since. The greedy scheming Ferengi, the desperate freedom-fighters/terrorists (depends on who you ask) Maquis, the unscrupulous ends-justify-the-means Section 31... those were foils, antagonists and/or comic relief, not main characters. In the parlance of this genre, NPCs.
If you want a game where the player characters are merchants and mercenaries, civilians and corporates, go play EvE or Elite or Traveller or Firefly or X or Privateer. Coming to this one and complaining that it doesn't offer enough support for non-Fleet characters (whether that fleet happens to be Starfleet or KDF or Republic) is like complaining to an ice cream vendor that his vanilla is insufficiently chocolatey, or that his orange sherbet doesn't taste like apples.
Blockade Rule Warfare is not the same piracy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_rules#Governing_laws
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prize_rules
Do you understand basic rules of war?
If more people read things in this game, there would be less whining about things like cloaks being removed from ships that aren't supposed to have them and "noobs" that don't understand.
If the OP (or you) can't take a little bit of heat for what he is responsible for writing, he should consider rewriting it or not writing it at all. I don't have to give positive responses to bad ideas, I never once explicitly told anyone to shut up, I simply pointed out the flaws in his arguments about a radical overhaul of the game to suit his particular niche taste which were interpreted by you, and only you I note, to be offensive.
Perhaps he should, there are games that more suit his suggested form of RP something which this game isn't and probably never will be. He might be more suited to play for example a Firefly MMO if one were to exist.
You don't go to McDonalds and "suggest" they start serving Curry, you go to a Curry house in the first place and the people that work there might be offended at the suggestion. I simply "suggested" that the OP go and play a different game more to his tastes in the same way that someone in McDonalds might tell you to go to a Curry house if you want a curry. It's entirely up to him what he does with that "suggestion" however.
Yes it is, you clearly don't read these forums very much with all the demands to keep, remove or add things being dressed up as "suggestions". In this case it is an extremely unreasonable suggestion based on self entitlement like most others that has a very simple and elegant solution which is apparent in of itself.
But you can be as naive and obtuse as you want to be to attempt to make a point if you so wish.
This made me laugh. lol
Yeah... I think I'm just gonna ignore you from this point on. I'm concerned that reading these blatant self-contradictions may trigger an aneurism.
yeah don't worry about it, his personality rubs a lot of people the wrong way.
and this isnt the first time he posted a gtfo to someone.
.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
That really is the pot calling the kettle black there.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
I understand your position and would be more sympathetic to it, if not for the divergence from the IP already established in the game and supported where convenient to either the developers or players.
More to the point, however is that the game is called Star Trek Online and was not promoted or developed as a strictly "Starfleet" character experience. The game can remain faithful to the IP and still allow for the cultivation of any element found in that universe.
Thanks for your encouragement though. I'm looking forward to the release of Star Citizen (Privateer).
And is there a Firefly MMO?