Eng consoles - useless

a19spectre

Alright, first, I don't mean all of them, just these little gems....

Plasma Distribution Manifold
Field Emitter
Injector Assembly
Booster Modulator

seriously, can we do something with these? They aren't worth running until endgame, and even then there are better choices, given the new warp cores.

baudl

there are atleast 2 more that are very limited in use, or useless...EPS flow regulator and emergency forcefield.

additionally the armor consoles do nothing while shields are up...and when they are down, you are dead anyway.

fleet consoles did the only logical thing, combining 2 consoles into 1...still most people simply take a combination of the least useless, that is armor and turnrate.

so in my opinion 70% of engi consoles are useless or little desireable given the now numerous number of universal consoles and reputation consoles.

nearly the same goes for science and even tac consoles...

shar487a

I personally run almost all tac and universal consoles, usually consisting of the following:

4 or 5x matched tactical consoles
1 plasmonic leech
1 borg assimilated universal module
1 zero point energy conduit (soon to be replaced with a subspace integration circuit)
1 tachyokinetic converter
1 field generator -- this is the only standard console I normally equip on all my ships

milanvorius

SIF consoles are perfectly wonderful for a healer. I wish they gave hull HP boost too. My HE, A2Sif, and ET are epicly wonderful.

senatorvreenak

baudl wrote: »

additionally the armor consoles do nothing while shields are up...and when they are down, you are dead anyway.

Completely and utterly false.

You are aware there is such a thing as shield bleed? Not to mention weapons and reputation powers that deal further bleed damage on top of that, or even our lovely new elachi disruptors that have a proc that completely bypasses shields alltogether..

If you have no armor consoles any decent DEM boat will chew you up easily, and no shield buff in the world can save you then.

And no, the entire notion of being dead when shields are down is just pure nonsense all the way through.

coffeemike

I don't know, the armor consoles help a lot when you don't spec into hull resists for kinetic and energy weapons. Or even if you do, they help you tank more. This is quite useful for low hull ships like escorts and science vessels.

And shield bypass is an issue now, hence why I respec'd to add more hull armor to my main toon and my alts. Romulan Plasma weapons eat thru your hull unless you have HE.

If you get the fleet eng consoles, get the neutronium with hull heal. Useful for escorts and sci ships.

mimey2

Just as a note from an 'old timer'...the 'power bonus' consoles like the Injector Assembly were nerfed long ago because, as a dev stated approximately this:

"We didn't want players to gain too much power"

Yes, that was then, this is now, but with ALL the other power bonuses that people can get irregardless, they remain nerfed.

Heck, I was surprised a power bonus WASN'T one of the bonuses given to the fleet engy consoles.

arctcwolf

senatorvreenak wrote: »

Completely and utterly false.

You are aware there is such a thing as shield bleed? Not to mention weapons and reputation powers that deal further bleed damage on top of that, or even our lovely new elachi disruptors that have a proc that completely bypasses shields alltogether..

If you have no armor consoles any decent DEM boat will chew you up easily, and no shield buff in the world can save you then.

And no, the entire notion of being dead when shields are down is just pure nonsense all the way through.

exactly right...

running a single neut console is usually a good idea. some decide electro or mono is better, but in PvP, u dont know who's running what.

SIF makes sense if in a tank, fleet excelsior or ody.

RCS being modified to give a set bonus to turn now makes a lot more sense for cruisers since they get more out of it than before.

I think they may wanna get some new consoles that either boost efficiency or boost max power levels. This will give some new life to eng consoles.

hereticknight085

senatorvreenak wrote: »

And no, the entire notion of being dead when shields are down is just pure nonsense all the way through.

Say that to a THY3 Quantum or Photon crit. With the way Rommie ships are, that's pretty much commonplace now. I used a mk VIII white quantum with THY3, and I critted for almost 70k on my friend's Odyssey that was running 4 mk XII purple monotaniums. I was running 5 rommie BOffs all with at least Romulan Operative, 3 of which were superior. Add in the assimilated module, and your crit severity is basically... well... you get the idea. It ain't pretty.

And since Crtd mods and crits are so easy to get nowadays, and anyone with half a brain and NOT running DEM with Marion usually has a torp and a THY3, you are basically screwed if they get your shields down (ironically if they do use DEM and Marion, you're screwed regardless).

mimey2 wrote: »

Just as a note from an 'old timer'...the 'power bonus' consoles like the Injector Assembly were nerfed long ago because, as a dev stated approximately this:

"We didn't want players to gain too much power"

Yes, that was then, this is now, but with ALL the other power bonuses that people can get irregardless, they remain nerfed.

Heck, I was surprised a power bonus WASN'T one of the bonuses given to the fleet engy consoles.

And now as a result, you now have 4 pretty much useless consoles that the devs refuse to remove from the game, and end up becoming drops that you just sigh at when you see them.

momaw

hereticknight085 wrote: »

Say that to a THY3 Quantum or Photon crit.

I see the problem now. You're looking at STO as a PVP game... but it isn't. STO is a PVE game with an unsightly mutant PVP appendage hanging off its back.

And in this PVE game, you don't have to die just because your shields are down. A few layers of armor can and will save your ship on a frequent basis.

momaw

If I were in charge of reworking those under-used power buff consoles, I would explore other options like giving drain resistance to the subsystem, or a repair rate bonus, or even giving a clickable power like another set of batteries.

shar487a

momaw wrote: »

I see the problem now. You're looking at STO as a PVP game... but it isn't. STO is a PVE game with an unsightly mutant PVP appendage hanging off its back.

And in this PVE game, you don't have to die just because your shields are down. A few layers of armor can and will save your ship on a frequent basis.

ESTF Borg Gates and Tac Cubes hit in the 100k+ damage range once shields are down (they use an uber version of the Borg cutting beams). So yes, the notion that shields = life does hold true against certain high end PVE opponents. STO hull armors are only occasionally useful against damage levels of this magnitude, which is why I rarely bother with them anymore, depending more on maintaining shield integrity and speed-based defense rating.

organicmanfred

And what about the EPS Flow Regulator. I do have one on each ship with a +70.
And my Boff Layout is filled with Humans.

So is this console valuable? Do I really need this?

mustafatennick

organicmanfred wrote: »

And what about the EPS Flow Regulator. I do have one on each ship with a +70.
And my Boff Layout is filled with Humans.

So is this console valuable? Do I really need this?

Not unless you run beam overload then they come in handy

shar487a

organicmanfred wrote: »

And what about the EPS Flow Regulator. I do have one on each ship with a +70.
And my Boff Layout is filled with Humans.

So is this console valuable? Do I really need this?

Being spec'd in the Electro-Plasma System skill works even better since it increases subsystem power transfer rates in addition to boosting EPtX BOFF skills. This effectively frees up that slot originally used for the EPS Flow Regulator.

hereticknight085

momaw wrote: »

I see the problem now. You're looking at STO as a PVP game... but it isn't. STO is a PVE game with an unsightly mutant PVP appendage hanging off its back.

And in this PVE game, you don't have to die just because your shields are down. A few layers of armor can and will save your ship on a frequent basis.

I was only putting in context the requisite point. In PvP it matters if your shields stay up. In PvE, it only matters vs certain enemies on certain maps. And tbh, if your shields are down, some of those gate torps can be rather... painful.

hanover

I used to love my Mk XII purple armor consoles. Then the universal consoles slowly pushed them out, until I was down to Neutronium, and then nothing.

baudl

senatorvreenak wrote: »

Completely and utterly false.

You are aware there is such a thing as shield bleed? Not to mention weapons and reputation powers that deal further bleed damage on top of that, or even our lovely new elachi disruptors that have a proc that completely bypasses shields alltogether..

If you have no armor consoles any decent DEM boat will chew you up easily, and no shield buff in the world can save you then.

And no, the entire notion of being dead when shields are down is just pure nonsense all the way through.

yeah, PVP well...that has been such an integral part of this game for the last 3 years...lol

and no, a DEM boat does not chew you up easily...the skill tree provides sufficent resistance already...console slots are simply too valuable to boost resistance further.

but they have a place in PVP, i agree. however if you prefer a armor console instead of a dmg boost console in any PVE scenario you gimp your ship on purpose.

senatorvreenak

hereticknight085 wrote: »

Say that to a THY3 Quantum or Photon crit. With the way Rommie ships are, that's pretty much commonplace now. I used a mk VIII white quantum with THY3, and I critted for almost 70k on my friend's Odyssey that was running 4 mk XII purple monotaniums. I was running 5 rommie BOffs all with at least Romulan Operative, 3 of which were superior. Add in the assimilated module, and your crit severity is basically... well... you get the idea. It ain't pretty.

And since Crtd mods and crits are so easy to get nowadays, and anyone with half a brain and NOT running DEM with Marion usually has a torp and a THY3, you are basically screwed if they get your shields down (ironically if they do use DEM and Marion, you're screwed regardless).



And now as a result, you now have 4 pretty much useless consoles that the devs refuse to remove from the game, and end up becoming drops that you just sigh at when you see them.

Yes I do say it.
A crit or even a hit is not a given, or if you do crit there is no guarantee its even going to be a 70k hit.
Armor consoles can and do make a significant difference in any fight, this is a fact.
Armor consoles prevent you from dying in those brief seconds your shields may have been compromised, whereas without you would break like an egg.

Even the best PvP'ers will have their shields fail them at some point, and a good BO3 hit is pretty effective at knocking "any" shield down, or tearing right through it even.

arctcwolf

senatorvreenak wrote: »

Yes I do say it.
A crit or even a hit is not a given, or if you do crit there is no guarantee its even going to be a 70k hit.
Armor consoles can and do make a significant difference in any fight, this is a fact.
Armor consoles prevent you from dying in those brief seconds your shields may have been compromised, whereas without you would break like an egg.

Even the best PvP'ers will have their shields fail them at some point, and a good BO3 hit is pretty effective at knocking "any" shield down, or tearing right through it even.

Thats assuming you can take advantage of taking all shields offline...I have 100% uptime with TT1, EptS1, HE1, and TSS2...so as your BO3 starts chewing thru 1 side of my shields, it has to deal with damage resist buffs from EptS and TSS, as well as the shield distribution of TT1...requiring all 4 shields go down to get access to the hull, and that bleedthru is being negated by HE1...so when u do get thru the shields, u have to contend with a full hull with hull heal and more damage resist...

this is assuming I can see you coming...if you're a rommie with battle cloak and alpha strike me with 5 stacked superior boffs and the right setup(30%+ critH), then im prolly popped.

hereticknight085

arctcwolf wrote: »

Thats assuming you can take advantage of taking all shields offline...I have 100% uptime with TT1, EptS1, HE1, and TSS2...so as your BO3 starts chewing thru 1 side of my shields, it has to deal with damage resist buffs from EptS and TSS, as well as the shield distribution of TT1...requiring all 4 shields go down to get access to the hull, and that bleedthru is being negated by HE1...so when u do get thru the shields, u have to contend with a full hull with hull heal and more damage resist...

this is assuming I can see you coming...if you're a rommie with battle cloak and alpha strike me with 5 stacked superior boffs and the right setup(30%+ critH), then im prolly popped.

Wait, how do you manage 100% uptime on TT1, HE1, and TSS2? Do tell.

arctcwolf

all 4 abilities run off different subsystems. TT is crew based, EptS is emergency power, HE1 is auxiliary, and TSS is deflector. each system has doffs that reduce cooldown. so, all can be run at the same time due to no conflicts/shared cooldown, and all can run on reduced cooldown.

Now that the elachi doffs are out, all doffs have dropped substantially in price, so its pretty cheap to play with doff setups to find the best for u.

baudl

arctcwolf wrote: »

all 4 abilities run off different subsystems. TT is crew based, EptS is emergency power, HE1 is auxiliary, and TSS is deflector. each system has doffs that reduce cooldown. so, all can be run at the same time due to no conflicts/shared cooldown, and all can run on reduced cooldown.

Now that the elachi doffs are out, all doffs have dropped substantially in price, so its pretty cheap to play with doff setups to find the best for u.

yeah but that is not what a 100% uptime means...tac team for instance has a 10 sec duration and 15 second dublicate cooldown with team abilities...so there is an uncloseable gap of 5 seconds. 66% uptime.

EPtX can be run with 100% uptime, since it's buff duration is the longer than the dublicate cooldown (which is also 15 seconds)

HE has a 30 second dublicate cooldown, and a buff duration of 15 seconds, so technically a 50% uptime.
Same with TSS

and the only build that can effectively reduce all the mentioned abilities down to the dublicate cooldown is A2B build.
also to run all those abilities on their dublicate cooldown would require atleas 10 doff seatings, not to mention that those only work by chance.

whamhammer1

I dont know about useless. A Fleet Galaxy can always plop an additional power console to add to its other four engi consoles.

dave18193

The ones you listed do indeed suck, but I wouldnt say all engi consoles are useless.

In particular, the new hybrid mine consoles are great. My Charal usually runs two RCS [+allres] for a massive turn rate increase and a noticebale boost to survivability.

Flip that on it head, and you've got cruisers with room for at least two MK12 UR Neutroniums with turn rate boosts equal to slightly more than one MK12 RCS.