Note, the Refracting Tetryon DBB is not available on the planner, so that person slotted something else in its place. Know that it's the actual Nukara T5 rep weapon that is there, no the Piercing Tetryon DBB. Also the weapon layout has slightly changed since as well.
You know, normally when I see someone use all his 4 sci consoles for shield gens, I just dismiss the entire build. I also see a KCB, wthout a Borg console. And see no resist mods at all.
People seem to rave about this build, though; so I'll try and keep an open mind. But yeah, I can usually be found in the "real sci consoles" department as well.
Note, the Refracting Tetryon DBB is not available on the planner, so that person slotted something else in its place. Know that it's the actual Nukara T5 rep weapon that is there, no the Piercing Tetryon DBB. Also the weapon layout has slightly changed since as well.
Thx.
Well, that is definitely a 'unique' build. Since I have a Wells too, might actually be fun to try it out.
You know, normally when I see someone use all his 4 sci consoles for shield gens, I just dismiss the entire build. I also see a KCB, wthout a Borg console. And see no resist mods at all.
There is no logical connection between KCB and the Borg Console other than the Omega set bonus 2. You'll note that the Omega Torp was added later in the updated view, therefore, this ship now has Omega set bonus 2.
People seem to rave about this build, though; so I'll try and keep an open mind. But yeah, I can usually be found in the "real sci consoles" department as well.
Except the key Sci skills on this build are already very strong. PG = 144, FC = 159 Given the power in all 4 subsystems are already at their max & more, there is little extra benefit in increasing the Flow Capacitor skills any further. PG is not adding much to FBP, Tractor Beam and GW beyond 120. At 144, it's more than enough. As an example, the FBP III now has a deflecting factor of 0.9 at AUX = 130. Activating Quantum Manipulation, which boosts PG to 244 temporarily, the deflecting factor only goes up by 0.3 to 1.2 So I were to take out a Field Generator and add an Embassy MK XII PG console, it will add +31.5 to PG, which will maybe boost the deflecting factor to 1.0 but that's not going to make a huge difference to the power of the FBP.
Well, that is definitely a 'unique' build. Since I have a Wells too, might actually be fun to try it out.
You are welcome, please note one of the DBB is now replaced by the Omega Torp. The two rear Torps have since been replaced by Fleet Tetryon Turrets. Photonic Officer I has been replaced in favor of Tachyon Beam II. DPS of this build is now over 17K without a single Tactical Station, tell that to the Escorts and I don't think they will believe it. Don't worry, then tell them they have 27K of shields to work through each facing for a total shielding over 100K and maximum power in all subsystems. No escort would dare to take you on alone again.
There is no logical connection between KCB and the Borg Console other than the Omega set bonus 2. You'll note that the Omega Torp was added later in the updated view, therefore, this ship now has Omega set bonus 2.
Omega torp wasn't in the build yet you linked; but yeah, OWA is what you're after (even though I haste to say the Assimilated Console is almost a must-have on all my ships, as its stats are so awesome).
Except the key Sci skills on this build are already very strong. PG = 144, FC = 159 Given the power in all 4 subsystems are already at their max & more, there is little extra benefit in increasing the Flow Capacitor skills any further. PG is not adding much to FBP, Tractor Beam and GW beyond 120. At 144, it's more than enough. As an example, the FBP III now has a deflecting factor of 0.9 at AUX = 130. Activating Quantum Manipulation, which boosts PG to 244 temporarily, the deflecting factor only goes up by 0.3 to 1.2 So I were to take out a Field Generator and add an Embassy MK XII PG console, it will add +31.5 to PG, which will maybe boost the deflecting factor to 1.0 but that's not going to make a huge difference to the power of the FBP.
I was thinking more along the linf of Embassy Flow Cap comsoles. Still, this is an interesting build. And I shall study it some more. And, if for nothing else, it has made me decide to give my Wells some new love.
You are welcome, please note one of the DBB is now replaced by the Omega Torp. The two rear Torps have since been replaced by Fleet Tetryon Turrets. Photonic Officer I has been replaced in favor of Tachyon Beam II. DPS of this build is now over 17K without a single Tactical Station, tell that to the Escorts and I don't think they will believe it. Don't worry, then tell them they have 27K of shields to work through each facing for a total shielding over 100K and maximum power in all subsystems. No escort would dare to take you on alone again.
I find your numbers very intriguing. Certainly merits a good looking into!
Hmm, losing the Tet DBB, aren't you losing like +15% Flow Caps that way? (not in-game right now). The arc on that DBB is a notorious pest, though, I know; LOL.
I find your numbers very intriguing. Certainly merits a good looking into!
Hmm, losing the Tet DBB, aren't you losing like +15% Flow Caps that way? (not in-game right now). The arc on that DBB is a notorious pest, though, I know; LOL.
The one DBB removed was a Fleet Adv. Tetryon DBB. As you guessed correctly, the Refracting Tetryon DBB has to stay for the Tetryon damage bonus and Flow Capacitor bonus. There are still two Tetryon DBB upfront.
Omega torp wasn't in the build yet you linked; but yeah, OWA is what you're after (even though I haste to say the Assimilated Console is almost a must-have on all my ships, as its stats are so awesome).
The assimilated console is nice to have except I don't have console space anymore. But the reason why it was not selected because the benefits it provides is secondary on this ship. Between the Rule 62 Console or the Assimilated Module, the Rule 62 is simply a better fit.
Put it this way, Assimilated Console gives me + 5 Weapon Power, + 5 Hull Repair, +23 Graviton
Rule 62 gives +17.5 in Flow Capacitors, which in turn gives +2.1 power drain to ES II for each subsystems = 2.1 X 4 = +8.4 Total Power Additionally, it also affects Plasmonic Leech, pulling an additional 0.2 per activation for each subsystem X 4 subsystems X 10 stacks = +8 Total Power Plus, it boosts Subsystem Targeting by another 2.5 each. It also increased shield drain from Tractor Beam & Tetryon Proc. Total power increase alone > 16 vs. 5 from Assimilated Module, which means Rule 62 will add 3 times more power to the ship overall than the Borg Console on this ship.
+5 Hull Repair (read: not actual % repair) on a ship with non-Combat hull repair rate above 150% is marginal at best, it's not going to make any significant difference whether my hull repair is 150% or 152%
Graviton skill on the ship is at 72. The only power using it is Tractor Beam. Once again, the benefit is marginal.
Instead, the Rule 62 Combat Console additionally provide +46% in power transfer rate, which is critical on this build due to frequent power transfers, shifts between power settings, A2B - not to mention extreme rapid recovery of weapon power after firing - allowing the energy weapons to operate within an optimal band. Finally, the additional 11.2% boost to the Torpedo damage is nice to have for the Omega Torp. Along with the Adapted Maco 2 piece set bonus, the Omega Torp is benefiting from a nice boost of +36, equivalent to two Mk XII Blue Prefire Warhead Chamber consoles
As you can see, it is simply illogical to insert the Borg console in here without sacrificing a more useful console for this build.
I've got a Fed Sci that I'm levelling at the moment and I'm going to give this a go once I hit 50. I'm wondering what ship to go for though, since the temporal science vessel is currently out of my price range. I was considering the orb weaver, though I'm not sure how much the different boff loadout and comparably lower turn-rate will impact my potential effectiveness.
If you've got a suggestion for an alternative vessel (I've got zen & I'm in a fleet, so few limitations on what I could get), it would be much appreciated!
I've got a Fed Sci that I'm levelling at the moment and I'm going to give this a go once I hit 50. I'm wondering what ship to go for though, since the temporal science vessel is currently out of my price range. I was considering the orb weaver, though I'm not sure how much the different boff loadout and comparably lower turn-rate will impact my potential effectiveness.
If you've got a suggestion for an alternative vessel (I've got zen & I'm in a fleet, so few limitations on what I could get), it would be much appreciated!
I am still studying on possible alternatives since many have asked for it due to the reasons you mentioned. It's very challenging to say the least.
This ship looks incredible. I've always wondered what kind of ship would result from figuring out how to balance the ship out at full power in all four areas. Now I know. This will now be my ultimate build for a Science ship, and I'll work towards it when I have a few months to spare.
Despite being the most epic build I've seen for the Temporal Science Vessel, it's going to be a long time for anyone to get something like this. The Mk XII Very Rare Field Generators alone would be quite a bit of grinding, plus the Fleet weapons and the other consoles from the Reputation system.
It's a dream, that's for sure, one that few players can actually achieve. Absolutely amazing.
I just have 1 question I did not see adressed. And I could be totally misunderstanding.
You are using fbp3 on cooldown. And using aux2bat to reduce its cooldown. However fbp requires high aux to do much of anything. Aux2bat drains aux to nothing. Even with the use of an aux battery every chance you get, fbp3 would still be running with no aux most of the time.
Or does drain from leech and siphon provide enough bounce back...
Cause I just feel like high aux fb3 and aux2bat is counter productive...
Another question is how would you use this as a science captain? Because I notice in some of your screenshots you're using Attack Pattern Alpha, an ability that is unavailable to science captains. Is there anything you would recommend to replace some of the bonuses from that?
This ship looks incredible. I've always wondered what kind of ship would result from figuring out how to balance the ship out at full power in all four areas. Now I know. This will now be my ultimate build for a Science ship, and I'll work towards it when I have a few months to spare.
Despite being the most epic build I've seen for the Temporal Science Vessel, it's going to be a long time for anyone to get something like this. The Mk XII Very Rare Field Generators alone would be quite a bit of grinding, plus the Fleet weapons and the other consoles from the Reputation system.
It's a dream, that's for sure, one that few players can actually achieve. Absolutely amazing.
I just have 1 question I did not see adressed. And I could be totally misunderstanding.
You are using fbp3 on cooldown. And using aux2bat to reduce its cooldown. However fbp requires high aux to do much of anything. Aux2bat drains aux to nothing. Even with the use of an aux battery every chance you get, fbp3 would still be running with no aux most of the time.
Or does drain from leech and siphon provide enough bounce back...
Cause I just feel like high aux fb3 and aux2bat is counter productive...
The way aux dependent Sci power works is they are dependent on the level of Aux power at the time of their activation only, you do not need to maintain maximum Aux power after activation for them to be fully effective. An easy way to test that is to activate Transfer Shield Strength at maximum AUX, then immediately used A2B after. You'll notice that TSS will continue to heal as though the Aux is at max per the rapid moving white heal numbers that you can see on your screen. Another test you can do is to activate any Energy Siphon at Aux = 130, then immediately switch your power setting so that Aux is far from max. At Aux = 130, Energy Siphon lasts exactly 24 seconds, which you can see a little icon counting down on your screen. You'll see that even if you immediately drop your Aux down to say 80, your Energy Siphon countdown that began at 24 will not accelerate, it will still last a full 24 seconds. But if your Aux started low, it will last much shorter period of time.
I alternate FBP3 with TSS3 since they share a CD. However, this sequence is not always active, unlike say cycling of EPtS/EPtE. A2B lasts only 10 seconds, I try to activate Sci powers before & after A2B, not during, unless absolutely necessary, in which case an Aux Battery is usually used.
Another question is how would you use this as a science captain? Because I notice in some of your screenshots you're using Attack Pattern Alpha, an ability that is unavailable to science captains. Is there anything you would recommend to replace some of the bonuses from that?
Time your Conservation of Energy Trait. APA's downside is that it has a long CD. Conservation of Energy's advantage vs. APA is that it can be activated without any CD so long as you are under enemy fire. You'll need to watch for your own icons, and when you see the Conservation of Energy is stacking 3 times, that's when you can give most of your exotic damage a nice 30% boost. This may mean delaying the activation of your FBP by a few seconds to allow Conservation of Energy to take hold but you will be able to boost your exotic damage more often and more reliably than a Tactical captain can.
Time your Conservation of Energy Trait. APA's downside is that it has a long CD. Conservation of Energy's advantage vs. APA is that it can be activated without any CD so long as you are under enemy fire. You'll need to watch for your own icons, and when you see the Conservation of Energy is stacking 3 times, that's when you can give most of your exotic damage a nice 30% boost. This may mean delaying the activation of your FBP by a few seconds to allow Conservation of Energy to take hold but you will be able to boost your exotic damage more often and more reliably than a Tactical captain can.
You may actually need to time your powers to coincide with your opponents shots. [post=11994991]This post[/post] suggests the impact of FBP is calculated at the time of being hit (claimed stealth nerf). I have no reason to doubt it, but I haven't tested it. If true then you need to get hit before getting hit hurts them more. So just get hit a lot.
This might also affect A2B timing, if it ever should mean your Aux is (briefly) lowered.
I am still studying on possible alternatives since many have asked for it due to the reasons you mentioned. It's very challenging to say the least.
I'm going to give THIS a try I think. It sacrifices one of the field generators for the tachyo console to push the turn rate up, and I chose TS1 for the ensign tac since it won't put any additional strain on weapon power, though obviously that can easily be substituted.
I'm actually wondering whether it would be worth substituting the omega plasma torpedo for the temporal disruption device, since it'll grant the two-piece that will buff the torpedo's damage by 27.4%. I have no experience using it, and I haven't read any evaluations on it though, so I'm not sure if it's a viable substitution.
You may actually need to time your powers to coincide with your opponents shots. [post=11994991]This post[/post] suggests the impact of FBP is calculated at the time of being hit (claimed stealth nerf). I have no reason to doubt it, but I haven't tested it. If true then you need to get hit before getting hit hurts them more. So just get hit a lot.
This might also affect A2B timing, if it ever should mean your Aux is (briefly) lowered.
The claims regarding "stealth nerfs" are too many to be counted, there is at least one per day. Most of them turned out to be false.
I'm going to give THIS a try I think. It sacrifices one of the field generators for the tachyo console to push the turn rate up, and I chose TS1 for the ensign tac since it won't put any additional strain on weapon power, though obviously that can easily be substituted.
I think your build is quite impressive. The Orb Weaver has a very similar set up, which is probably as close as one can get to Pure Science. That said, it's also a lock box ship, although it is a cheaper ship.
As a side note, there are 3 things to consider in comparing how OP a lock box ship is.
The reason why many think the Jem Bug ship is OP is because it is a very balanced ship when considering the above 3 elements. Orb Weaver is however quite a bit slower vs. comparable lock box ships, which may make the use of DBB unsuitable as fore weapons. Even with the Tachyokinetic Converter, I am not certain the turn rate (only 9) is good enough for DBB. Many people believe a turn rate of 12 is good enough for DHCs with 45 degree firing arc. I think those people are wrong due to wishful thinking on their part. You need a minimum turn rate of 15 for DHCs in PvP. Likewise, to use DBB, any base turn rate below 12 is going to be challenging. In lieu of the Tachyonkinetic Converter, perhaps a Fleet RCS Accelerator would be more suitable.
I'm actually wondering whether it would be worth substituting the omega plasma torpedo for the temporal disruption device, since it'll grant the two-piece that will buff the torpedo's damage by 27.4%. I have no experience using it, and I haven't read any evaluations on it though, so I'm not sure if it's a viable substitution.
I am very familiar with the Temporal Warfare set since I have the entire collection with my 2 Timeships, the Wells and Mobius. The short answer is : No, it's not a viable option. The reason being the purpose of the Omega Torp in the fore slot is meant as a substitution for a fore DBB. Omega Torp acts more like a rapid firing kinetic cannon and a pressure weapon that can do significant shield-bypass plasma DoT. In this sense, the Omega Torp is closer to an Energy weapon than a Torpedo launcher. It is a high DPS weapon that will shred enemies surely and quickly once the shield facing is down because these projectiles are non-targetable and non-destructible. On the other hand, the Temporal Disruption Device is a slow moving and slow firing super charged chroniton torpedo. It fires one shot every 20 sec., which can be accelerated by Projectile Doff for Torpedos but with this build, there is no doff space left for a Projectile Doff. Furthermore, it is an easily destructible projectile with no defense whatsoever. It will melt away just by looking at it. Klingon's Aceton Assimilator spam will ensure the TDD melt within 5 KM of it. Even if the TDD does reach the target, which is very difficult considering how slow it moves, shield will absorb most of the impact. TDD works best as a high yield torpedo - the Heavy Temporal Disruption Device will emit a temporal disruption field as it moves towards the target with a 3 KM range. Anything inside its 3KM range will be slowed, in addition, it will phase in & out, making it harder to be targeted. If it does hit, it will create a subspsace rupture, that slows and mini-subnuke the target, in addition to high kinetic damage. On some builds, the Heavy Temporal Disruption Device would be suitable. However, the TDD is unsuitable as a substitution for a DBB, therefore, not viable here.
Here is a hybrid build, fit for both PvE and PvP : Hybrid Build
The main changes are the boff powers. Instead of choosing between FBP III and GW III at the Commander Science station, both powers are now incorporated simultaneously into the build as GW III + FBP II. This bumps TSS III down to TSS II and eliminate Tachyon Beam II from the build. Simply put, FBP II or III is a must in PvP so long STO remains Escort Online with a strong obsession about DPS. On the other hand, GW III, properly spec is a useful multi-purpose tool effective in both PvE and PvP. It can decloak Romulans, clear pets, projectiles, kill Aceton Assimilator, hold a group of enemies in one spot, deal decent damages to enemies with weakened or no shielding. Equipping both makes sense. This means the more situational Tachyon Beam II will have to be omitted.
Testing these changes in PvP yielded good results :
The screenshot says it all. This Science vessel with 0 tactical stations can score very high amount of damage and ended up scoring more kills than anyone on either side, with a score of 12-0.
Anyone who thinks just because a ship has no tactical boff stations can't kill anything need to think again. You don't put out that kind of damage number without decent firepower, not to mention, scoring more kills than anyone else in a 10 people Arena pvp.
Just to note, while this is claims to be "Pure Sci", only half the bridge are science boffs. The captain is tactical and there are two engineers. All doffs are engineers/operations. It is still a "Sci Cmdr" ship (ie. a science ship). I point this out since my own Sci/Sci ship has a Lt Cmdr engineer (two grades less than your tactical captain) and was duly noted as not pure science.
Does the GW variant do much damage without particle gens? The FBP version would seem to depend a lot on being hit by energy weapons. Torp builds could be an achilles heel.
It still looks like an exceptional build for a Tac/Sci ship. I was not aware of that nifty Warp Core engineer, which comes in a cheaper rare version as well but only 30% chance to clear debuffs. The purples have gone over 20MM ec since your post.
Your prompt got me thinking. I have 3 toons, one Fed main: Iskan - the Betazoid Tactical that you have seen so far. One Fed-Romulan, who shall remain cloaked as Romulans do. The last one is a Fed Sci, Ludavix, a joined Trill, who didn't even reach Lv 30 Captain until a few days ago. Given your "criticism" that Iskan is not a true "Pure Sci", I started to level up Ludavix. Then comes the question: "What T5 ship should he eventually command when he <<grows up>>?" I am unable thus far to find an acceptable alternative to this build that I posted and discussed in this thread. None of the Fleet Sci ship seems good enough, unfortunately. Back when Iskan bought the Wells Timeship from the Exchange, it was a lot cheaper than what it is now. Still, I had no clue what's the current price of the Wells these days until two day ago, here is what happened:
My Fleet has some spare Temporal Lock boxes that nobody wants in the Fleet Bank. Given the current discounted lobi promotion for select items, I figure Ludavix will need a Rule 62 Combat Console eventually no matter what. So with some spare Dilithium that I pooled together, I exchanged it into zen and bought some keys in order to collect enough lobi for that console. On my 20th key, to my shock, it yieled a Temporal Science ship crate. :eek: Ludavix was only Lv 30, couldn't even use the ship. So I saved it in his bank account, pondering over for a few days on what to do. So that's when I checked on the Exchange what's the going price of the Wells Timeship... betewteen 125-130 million ec / crate! I didn't realize when many of you were saying it's unaffordable in this thread, I still had the old price tag in my head. Now, I know why. No idea what drove the price so high. So I had this dilemma, do I sell it or not? If I sell it, what would Ludavix eventually command? Vesta? Hell no, unless he likes to be star dust. Hospital ship? No, he is a Scientist, not a doctor / book worm (sorry doctors! ) Fleet Nebula? Some people have been nicknaming it "Welfarebula", a ship that requires babysitting. Running out of options... Then yesterday, Ludavix reached Lv 40 (entirely via doff-ing). I was reminded what milandare said and figured it simply wouldn't be proper to have a model ship that can be criticized as not true Sci for not having a Sci Captain. Most people on th OPvP channel want me to sell it or just hand it over to them. Against my better judgement, I decided to use it so that Ludavix can have a proper ship to command and say bye bye to getting rich in ec. USS Elysium NCC-183476
So a Lv 40 in a Wells Timeship but as you can see the ship is empty, not even fully staffed with Boffs, with empty slots. The equipment is just the stock Timeship accessories. The only thing I was able to put in was the Rule 62 Combat console that I eventually got. Right now, it's just a shell, can't even take it into a Borg Red Alert without becoming a liability to the team. Tried to slot in a Mk XII purple Tetryon Pulse Generator that I have, it got rejected. I forgot it needs to be Lv 50 or above to equip Mk XI, let alone Mk XII consoles. Right now, Ludavix will need a lot of EC to be retrofitted into a proper Pure Science Timeship, the money I simply don't have. He also needs to be level up as well. Suffice to say, it's going to be a long journey and expensive. But thanks to milandare, I now have the resolve to make it happen.
Wow, that's a huge undertaking Iskandus! I'm very glad you got lucky with the new chassis, I wouldn't want to be responsible for your STO impoverishment. It truly is an expensive ship.
It will be interesting to see how Sci/Sci goes. If you fit out the same way as before you should get similar results, just subnuke instead of APA. That seems like less damage, you might want to sacrifice a little shielding for particle gens. It'll also be interesting to see how much the build depends on the high-end gadgets. For myself, I'd like a Wells for its maneuverability, threading warp plasma through enemies even when they're not in a gravity well. I can dream
Your previous Wells build used a lot of Field Gens. I've never tried them. Early on in my STO life I was influenced by something I read on this forum. Field Gens benefit yourself, but do not boost your heal-others, so Emitter Arrays are more 'sociable'. In truth I rarely have a chance to heal others, since I am a +Threat wannabe tanker always on the brink of oblivion. In which case Field Gens make more sense. For now, since I'm only PvE, I have done away with shield boosts altogether and live 255-Particle-Gens dangerously
I got both time ships when they first came out and the shuttle that went with them now I want to get the temporal warfare set and try using both consoles and the set for maximum Temporal high jinks although having seen your build made take my wells out of mothballs in order to try a drain build on it and now I'm in love with it I believe that part of the reason the wells has gone up in price because partly the new romulan aspect of it and also because ppl are realizing its full potential.
Also it should be noted I was in love with the temporal stuff and got the wells uni and the jumpsuit and both relativity weapons and all the temporal doffs.
Wow, that's a huge undertaking Iskandus! I'm very glad you got lucky with the new chassis, I wouldn't want to be responsible for your STO impoverishment. It truly is an expensive ship.
It will be interesting to see how Sci/Sci goes. If you fit out the same way as before you should get similar results, just subnuke instead of APA. That seems like less damage, you might want to sacrifice a little shielding for particle gens. It'll also be interesting to see how much the build depends on the high-end gadgets. For myself, I'd like a Wells for its maneuverability, threading warp plasma through enemies even when they're not in a gravity well. I can dream
Honestly, I don't know what to expect. But I doubt the design will change very much. In theory, it should do less damage without APA and Tactical Fleet. Except both of these powers have long CD so they weren't always there anyway. It should be noted that Tactical Initiative, a Tactical Captain skill was completely useless as a result of the ship not having any Tactical boff skills but with a Science Captain, there won't be anything wasted. However, this ship will have a chance to really up its shield and hull damage resistance to energy weapons. The Utopia had an assumption of 50% shield damage resistance. The Elysium will be a lot more resilient thanks to Scattering Field and Science Fleet, possibly getting closer to the maximum shield damage resistance of 75%. If so, we are talking about each shield facing having an effective shielding of 100K+ :eek: calculated as follows : 27 000 / 0.25 = 108 000. X4 = well over 400K in total effective shielding by keep shield power at 130, activating both TSS II + EPtS I + Scattering Field. That's a lot of shielding! Pop a Jevonite hardpoint, the ship will suddenly have a total of 52K+ hull. Activate Polarize Hull, then the hull damage resistance goes up through the roof = more than 3 X Neutronium MK XII purple combined. Not to forget with Photonic Capacitor and lots of Sci skills with A2B, I can summon the Photonic Fleet very often, up to 3 Fed Battleships to assist me.
The Wells' speed and maneuverability is amazing. I can zip across the map at 100+ speed constantly due to constant cycling of EPtE + maintaining maximum engine power, covering a lot of ground. Escorts are fast, but few can maintain such high engine power as I do without sacrificing their weapons power. Many of them have to settle for Combat Impulse engine due to low power level vs. my Elite Fleet Hyper-Impulse engine, there is just no comparison in speed there. Losing their speed advantage, Escorts become easy target as you sneak behind them and throw all kind of space magic at them. Mind you, warp plasma doesn't work very well at such high speed - they become small pockets of clouds when you travel that fast.
Your previous Wells build used a lot of Field Gens. I've never tried them. Early on in my STO life I was influenced by something I read on this forum. Field Gens benefit yourself, but do not boost your heal-others, so Emitter Arrays are more 'sociable'. In truth I rarely have a chance to heal others, since I am a +Threat wannabe tanker always on the brink of oblivion. In which case Field Gens make more sense. For now, since I'm only PvE, I have done away with shield boosts altogether and live 255-Particle-Gens dangerously
What you read was unfortunately one of the biggest myths in the STO forum. It's akin in some cultures where their females are told to cover up for their own good and protection. In other words, escorts want you to sacrifice yourself and play your pre-determined role as a submissive healer. The truth is, even a healer needs to survive, whether in PvE or PvP. How can you contribute to your team if the Tactical Cube just one-shot you? You surely can't heal anyone by being dead. In PvP, healer is often the first target of any coordinated team for obvious reasons. Plus, the benefits given by Shield Emitter consoles hardly worth the investment. Even +25 in Starship Shield Emitters translate roughly to about a +100 hit point increase to a EPtS, for example. Like really?
Particle Gens is an important skill, especially now my hybrid build depends on PG even more. The Joined Trill has a boost in PG, so the ship should have just over 150+ in PG even without any PG consoles. I suppose it can be boost up to 275 with 4 X MK XII Embassy PG consoles but that would be putting too many eggs in the same basket I think. The primary damage dealer and DPS would and should still come from the primary weapon systems. For me, the FBP and GW are used as supportive skills as they should be. 150% is still very decent considering not a single PG console was used. And I can boost it up to 160-170% easily with Inspirational Leader trait. With Conservation of Energy trait, I think FBP and GW will have more than enough boost. Even Iskan's GW III is giving the Klingons and Romulans a lot of trouble already in PvP, I can only imagine Ludavix' will be even harder to deal with.
I got both time ships when they first came out and the shuttle that went with them now I want to get the temporal warfare set and try using both consoles and the set for maximum Temporal high jinks although having seen your build made take my wells out of mothballs in order to try a drain build on it and now I'm in love with it
I have the full 3 pieces temporal warfare set and the unique consoles from Wells and Mobius. But as you can see, I don't use any of it. One of the reason is because many considered the Temporal Inversion Field to be super cheesy / Pay to Win. I think it's a nice ability but way overrated. I'd love to use Temporal Backstep however except it's good once every 5 minutes only, plus it needs a console slot. If and when Cryptic would allow unique consoles to be installed without costing a slot, I will use it. Until then, no. As for the Mobius' "suicide console", well, let's just say it has no practical use.
I know people call it the suicide console but I've never had trouble using it I have been able to use it for a great temporary damage increase the thing is many people just use it at the wrong time and the past one gets killed and kills the player.
I know people call it the suicide console but I've never had trouble using it I have been able to use it for a great temporary damage increase the thing is many people just use it at the wrong time and the past one gets killed and kills the player.
For fun, I will test it again in Kerrat but I suspect every single NPC will start shooting the past copy immediately.
Most of the time I've had enemies immediately attack the future copy first then me and it ends before they try attacking the past copy. For fun if you wanna ensure the past copy isn't attacked get a couple of teh APD Jem'Hadar doffs and toss APD on yourself the future copy or an unsuspecting teammate and the extra threat Gen should be enough to keep the past one safe.
Iskandus, thank you for sharing your build. It looks like it would be fun to fly.
I've got a Sci captain in a Wells, myself. Though her build is significantly different, it does focus on Energy Siphon, Gravity Well, and Tachyon Beam. I agree with you, I think most people discount TachB, but it's really lovely (and works great to debuff the Crystalline Entity, too, BTW - Taking away 5 of it's Crystalization Regen/Dmg stacks).
So while I won't be copying your build in total, there are some elements of yours that I may work in to a couple of my characters. I greatly appreciate your detailed descriptions and thought processes behind your decisions. It'll make it easier to take bits'n'pieces for use elsewhere.
...Shield Distribution is handled by binding manual distribution to the space bar and very high power transfer speed, which makes it as efficient if not better than TT in distributing shield....
A ship's Power Transfer Rate (as controlled by your Electro-Plasma Systems skill) affects its shield distribution? I didn't know that.
Really?
Huh.
Is that displayed anywhere or is there a method to test/confirm that? If one has a high PTR, does it also improve Tac Team's re-distro?
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
Comments
Sure, someone already did it for me in Post #17 :
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=12041951&postcount=17
Note, the Refracting Tetryon DBB is not available on the planner, so that person slotted something else in its place. Know that it's the actual Nukara T5 rep weapon that is there, no the Piercing Tetryon DBB. Also the weapon layout has slightly changed since as well.
You know, normally when I see someone use all his 4 sci consoles for shield gens, I just dismiss the entire build. I also see a KCB, wthout a Borg console. And see no resist mods at all.
People seem to rave about this build, though; so I'll try and keep an open mind. But yeah, I can usually be found in the "real sci consoles" department as well.
Thx.
Well, that is definitely a 'unique' build. Since I have a Wells too, might actually be fun to try it out.
There is no logical connection between KCB and the Borg Console other than the Omega set bonus 2. You'll note that the Omega Torp was added later in the updated view, therefore, this ship now has Omega set bonus 2.
Except the key Sci skills on this build are already very strong. PG = 144, FC = 159 Given the power in all 4 subsystems are already at their max & more, there is little extra benefit in increasing the Flow Capacitor skills any further. PG is not adding much to FBP, Tractor Beam and GW beyond 120. At 144, it's more than enough. As an example, the FBP III now has a deflecting factor of 0.9 at AUX = 130. Activating Quantum Manipulation, which boosts PG to 244 temporarily, the deflecting factor only goes up by 0.3 to 1.2 So I were to take out a Field Generator and add an Embassy MK XII PG console, it will add +31.5 to PG, which will maybe boost the deflecting factor to 1.0 but that's not going to make a huge difference to the power of the FBP.
You are welcome, please note one of the DBB is now replaced by the Omega Torp. The two rear Torps have since been replaced by Fleet Tetryon Turrets. Photonic Officer I has been replaced in favor of Tachyon Beam II. DPS of this build is now over 17K without a single Tactical Station, tell that to the Escorts and I don't think they will believe it.
Omega torp wasn't in the build yet you linked; but yeah, OWA is what you're after (even though I haste to say the Assimilated Console is almost a must-have on all my ships, as its stats are so awesome).
I was thinking more along the linf of Embassy Flow Cap comsoles. Still, this is an interesting build. And I shall study it some more. And, if for nothing else, it has made me decide to give my Wells some new love.
I find your numbers very intriguing.
Hmm, losing the Tet DBB, aren't you losing like +15% Flow Caps that way? (not in-game right now). The arc on that DBB is a notorious pest, though, I know; LOL.
The one DBB removed was a Fleet Adv. Tetryon DBB. As you guessed correctly, the Refracting Tetryon DBB has to stay for the Tetryon damage bonus and Flow Capacitor bonus. There are still two Tetryon DBB upfront.
The assimilated console is nice to have except I don't have console space anymore.
Put it this way, Assimilated Console gives me + 5 Weapon Power, + 5 Hull Repair, +23 Graviton
Rule 62 gives +17.5 in Flow Capacitors, which in turn gives +2.1 power drain to ES II for each subsystems = 2.1 X 4 = +8.4 Total Power Additionally, it also affects Plasmonic Leech, pulling an additional 0.2 per activation for each subsystem X 4 subsystems X 10 stacks = +8 Total Power Plus, it boosts Subsystem Targeting by another 2.5 each. It also increased shield drain from Tractor Beam & Tetryon Proc. Total power increase alone > 16 vs. 5 from Assimilated Module, which means Rule 62 will add 3 times more power to the ship overall than the Borg Console on this ship.
+5 Hull Repair (read: not actual % repair) on a ship with non-Combat hull repair rate above 150% is marginal at best, it's not going to make any significant difference whether my hull repair is 150% or 152%
Graviton skill on the ship is at 72. The only power using it is Tractor Beam. Once again, the benefit is marginal.
Instead, the Rule 62 Combat Console additionally provide +46% in power transfer rate, which is critical on this build due to frequent power transfers, shifts between power settings, A2B - not to mention extreme rapid recovery of weapon power after firing - allowing the energy weapons to operate within an optimal band. Finally, the additional 11.2% boost to the Torpedo damage is nice to have for the Omega Torp. Along with the Adapted Maco 2 piece set bonus, the Omega Torp is benefiting from a nice boost of +36, equivalent to two Mk XII Blue Prefire Warhead Chamber consoles
As you can see, it is simply illogical to insert the Borg console in here without sacrificing a more useful console for this build.
I've got a Fed Sci that I'm levelling at the moment and I'm going to give this a go once I hit 50. I'm wondering what ship to go for though, since the temporal science vessel is currently out of my price range. I was considering the orb weaver, though I'm not sure how much the different boff loadout and comparably lower turn-rate will impact my potential effectiveness.
If you've got a suggestion for an alternative vessel (I've got zen & I'm in a fleet, so few limitations on what I could get), it would be much appreciated!
I am still studying on possible alternatives since many have asked for it due to the reasons you mentioned. It's very challenging to say the least.
Despite being the most epic build I've seen for the Temporal Science Vessel, it's going to be a long time for anyone to get something like this. The Mk XII Very Rare Field Generators alone would be quite a bit of grinding, plus the Fleet weapons and the other consoles from the Reputation system.
It's a dream, that's for sure, one that few players can actually achieve. Absolutely amazing.
You are using fbp3 on cooldown. And using aux2bat to reduce its cooldown. However fbp requires high aux to do much of anything. Aux2bat drains aux to nothing. Even with the use of an aux battery every chance you get, fbp3 would still be running with no aux most of the time.
Or does drain from leech and siphon provide enough bounce back...
Cause I just feel like high aux fb3 and aux2bat is counter productive...
Thank you for your kind words.
The way aux dependent Sci power works is they are dependent on the level of Aux power at the time of their activation only, you do not need to maintain maximum Aux power after activation for them to be fully effective. An easy way to test that is to activate Transfer Shield Strength at maximum AUX, then immediately used A2B after. You'll notice that TSS will continue to heal as though the Aux is at max per the rapid moving white heal numbers that you can see on your screen. Another test you can do is to activate any Energy Siphon at Aux = 130, then immediately switch your power setting so that Aux is far from max. At Aux = 130, Energy Siphon lasts exactly 24 seconds, which you can see a little icon counting down on your screen. You'll see that even if you immediately drop your Aux down to say 80, your Energy Siphon countdown that began at 24 will not accelerate, it will still last a full 24 seconds. But if your Aux started low, it will last much shorter period of time.
I alternate FBP3 with TSS3 since they share a CD. However, this sequence is not always active, unlike say cycling of EPtS/EPtE. A2B lasts only 10 seconds, I try to activate Sci powers before & after A2B, not during, unless absolutely necessary, in which case an Aux Battery is usually used.
Time your Conservation of Energy Trait. APA's downside is that it has a long CD. Conservation of Energy's advantage vs. APA is that it can be activated without any CD so long as you are under enemy fire. You'll need to watch for your own icons, and when you see the Conservation of Energy is stacking 3 times, that's when you can give most of your exotic damage a nice 30% boost. This may mean delaying the activation of your FBP by a few seconds to allow Conservation of Energy to take hold but you will be able to boost your exotic damage more often and more reliably than a Tactical captain can.
You may actually need to time your powers to coincide with your opponents shots. [post=11994991]This post[/post] suggests the impact of FBP is calculated at the time of being hit (claimed stealth nerf). I have no reason to doubt it, but I haven't tested it. If true then you need to get hit before getting hit hurts them more. So just get hit a lot.
This might also affect A2B timing, if it ever should mean your Aux is (briefly) lowered.
I'm going to give THIS a try I think. It sacrifices one of the field generators for the tachyo console to push the turn rate up, and I chose TS1 for the ensign tac since it won't put any additional strain on weapon power, though obviously that can easily be substituted.
I'm actually wondering whether it would be worth substituting the omega plasma torpedo for the temporal disruption device, since it'll grant the two-piece that will buff the torpedo's damage by 27.4%. I have no experience using it, and I haven't read any evaluations on it though, so I'm not sure if it's a viable substitution.
The claims regarding "stealth nerfs" are too many to be counted, there is at least one per day. Most of them turned out to be false.
It is best to simply ignore them.
I think your build is quite impressive. The Orb Weaver has a very similar set up, which is probably as close as one can get to Pure Science. That said, it's also a lock box ship, although it is a cheaper ship.
As a side note, there are 3 things to consider in comparing how OP a lock box ship is.
1) Shield modifier
2) Base hull strength
3) Impulse Modifier & Turn Rate
The reason why many think the Jem Bug ship is OP is because it is a very balanced ship when considering the above 3 elements. Orb Weaver is however quite a bit slower vs. comparable lock box ships, which may make the use of DBB unsuitable as fore weapons. Even with the Tachyokinetic Converter, I am not certain the turn rate (only 9) is good enough for DBB. Many people believe a turn rate of 12 is good enough for DHCs with 45 degree firing arc. I think those people are wrong due to wishful thinking on their part. You need a minimum turn rate of 15 for DHCs in PvP. Likewise, to use DBB, any base turn rate below 12 is going to be challenging. In lieu of the Tachyonkinetic Converter, perhaps a Fleet RCS Accelerator would be more suitable.
I am very familiar with the Temporal Warfare set since I have the entire collection with my 2 Timeships, the Wells and Mobius. The short answer is : No, it's not a viable option. The reason being the purpose of the Omega Torp in the fore slot is meant as a substitution for a fore DBB. Omega Torp acts more like a rapid firing kinetic cannon and a pressure weapon that can do significant shield-bypass plasma DoT. In this sense, the Omega Torp is closer to an Energy weapon than a Torpedo launcher. It is a high DPS weapon that will shred enemies surely and quickly once the shield facing is down because these projectiles are non-targetable and non-destructible. On the other hand, the Temporal Disruption Device is a slow moving and slow firing super charged chroniton torpedo. It fires one shot every 20 sec., which can be accelerated by Projectile Doff for Torpedos but with this build, there is no doff space left for a Projectile Doff. Furthermore, it is an easily destructible projectile with no defense whatsoever. It will melt away just by looking at it. Klingon's Aceton Assimilator spam will ensure the TDD melt within 5 KM of it. Even if the TDD does reach the target, which is very difficult considering how slow it moves, shield will absorb most of the impact. TDD works best as a high yield torpedo - the Heavy Temporal Disruption Device will emit a temporal disruption field as it moves towards the target with a 3 KM range. Anything inside its 3KM range will be slowed, in addition, it will phase in & out, making it harder to be targeted. If it does hit, it will create a subspsace rupture, that slows and mini-subnuke the target, in addition to high kinetic damage. On some builds, the Heavy Temporal Disruption Device would be suitable. However, the TDD is unsuitable as a substitution for a DBB, therefore, not viable here.
The main changes are the boff powers. Instead of choosing between FBP III and GW III at the Commander Science station, both powers are now incorporated simultaneously into the build as GW III + FBP II. This bumps TSS III down to TSS II and eliminate Tachyon Beam II from the build. Simply put, FBP II or III is a must in PvP so long STO remains Escort Online with a strong obsession about DPS. On the other hand, GW III, properly spec is a useful multi-purpose tool effective in both PvE and PvP. It can decloak Romulans, clear pets, projectiles, kill Aceton Assimilator, hold a group of enemies in one spot, deal decent damages to enemies with weakened or no shielding. Equipping both makes sense. This means the more situational Tachyon Beam II will have to be omitted.
Testing these changes in PvP yielded good results :
Arena PvP testing against Klingons
The screenshot says it all. This Science vessel with 0 tactical stations can score very high amount of damage and ended up scoring more kills than anyone on either side, with a score of 12-0.
Anyone who thinks just because a ship has no tactical boff stations can't kill anything need to think again. You don't put out that kind of damage number without decent firepower, not to mention, scoring more kills than anyone else in a 10 people Arena pvp.
Your prompt got me thinking. I have 3 toons, one Fed main: Iskan - the Betazoid Tactical that you have seen so far. One Fed-Romulan, who shall remain cloaked as Romulans do.
My Fleet has some spare Temporal Lock boxes that nobody wants in the Fleet Bank. Given the current discounted lobi promotion for select items, I figure Ludavix will need a Rule 62 Combat Console eventually no matter what. So with some spare Dilithium that I pooled together, I exchanged it into zen and bought some keys in order to collect enough lobi for that console. On my 20th key, to my shock, it yieled a Temporal Science ship crate. :eek: Ludavix was only Lv 30, couldn't even use the ship. So I saved it in his bank account, pondering over for a few days on what to do. So that's when I checked on the Exchange what's the going price of the Wells Timeship... betewteen 125-130 million ec / crate! I didn't realize when many of you were saying it's unaffordable in this thread, I still had the old price tag in my head. Now, I know why. No idea what drove the price so high. So I had this dilemma, do I sell it or not? If I sell it, what would Ludavix eventually command? Vesta? Hell no, unless he likes to be star dust. Hospital ship? No, he is a Scientist, not a doctor / book worm (sorry doctors! ) Fleet Nebula? Some people have been nicknaming it "Welfarebula", a ship that requires babysitting. Running out of options... Then yesterday, Ludavix reached Lv 40 (entirely via doff-ing). I was reminded what milandare said and figured it simply wouldn't be proper to have a model ship that can be criticized as not true Sci for not having a Sci Captain. Most people on th OPvP channel want me to sell it or just hand it over to them.
So a Lv 40 in a Wells Timeship but as you can see the ship is empty, not even fully staffed with Boffs, with empty slots. The equipment is just the stock Timeship accessories. The only thing I was able to put in was the Rule 62 Combat console that I eventually got. Right now, it's just a shell, can't even take it into a Borg Red Alert without becoming a liability to the team. Tried to slot in a Mk XII purple Tetryon Pulse Generator that I have, it got rejected. I forgot it needs to be Lv 50 or above to equip Mk XI, let alone Mk XII consoles. Right now, Ludavix will need a lot of EC to be retrofitted into a proper Pure Science Timeship, the money I simply don't have. He also needs to be level up as well. Suffice to say, it's going to be a long journey and expensive. But thanks to milandare, I now have the resolve to make it happen.
It will be interesting to see how Sci/Sci goes. If you fit out the same way as before you should get similar results, just subnuke instead of APA. That seems like less damage, you might want to sacrifice a little shielding for particle gens. It'll also be interesting to see how much the build depends on the high-end gadgets. For myself, I'd like a Wells for its maneuverability, threading warp plasma through enemies even when they're not in a gravity well. I can dream
Your previous Wells build used a lot of Field Gens. I've never tried them. Early on in my STO life I was influenced by something I read on this forum. Field Gens benefit yourself, but do not boost your heal-others, so Emitter Arrays are more 'sociable'. In truth I rarely have a chance to heal others, since I am a +Threat wannabe tanker always on the brink of oblivion. In which case Field Gens make more sense. For now, since I'm only PvE, I have done away with shield boosts altogether and live 255-Particle-Gens dangerously
Cheers, bookworm
Honestly, I don't know what to expect. But I doubt the design will change very much. In theory, it should do less damage without APA and Tactical Fleet. Except both of these powers have long CD so they weren't always there anyway. It should be noted that Tactical Initiative, a Tactical Captain skill was completely useless as a result of the ship not having any Tactical boff skills but with a Science Captain, there won't be anything wasted. However, this ship will have a chance to really up its shield and hull damage resistance to energy weapons. The Utopia had an assumption of 50% shield damage resistance. The Elysium will be a lot more resilient thanks to Scattering Field and Science Fleet, possibly getting closer to the maximum shield damage resistance of 75%. If so, we are talking about each shield facing having an effective shielding of 100K+ :eek: calculated as follows : 27 000 / 0.25 = 108 000. X4 = well over 400K in total effective shielding by keep shield power at 130, activating both TSS II + EPtS I + Scattering Field. That's a lot of shielding! Pop a Jevonite hardpoint, the ship will suddenly have a total of 52K+ hull. Activate Polarize Hull, then the hull damage resistance goes up through the roof = more than 3 X Neutronium MK XII purple combined. Not to forget with Photonic Capacitor and lots of Sci skills with A2B, I can summon the Photonic Fleet very often, up to 3 Fed Battleships to assist me.
The Wells' speed and maneuverability is amazing. I can zip across the map at 100+ speed constantly due to constant cycling of EPtE + maintaining maximum engine power, covering a lot of ground. Escorts are fast, but few can maintain such high engine power as I do without sacrificing their weapons power. Many of them have to settle for Combat Impulse engine due to low power level vs. my Elite Fleet Hyper-Impulse engine, there is just no comparison in speed there. Losing their speed advantage, Escorts become easy target as you sneak behind them and throw all kind of space magic at them. Mind you, warp plasma doesn't work very well at such high speed - they become small pockets of clouds when you travel that fast.
What you read was unfortunately one of the biggest myths in the STO forum. It's akin in some cultures where their females are told to cover up for their own good and protection. In other words, escorts want you to sacrifice yourself and play your pre-determined role as a submissive healer. The truth is, even a healer needs to survive, whether in PvE or PvP. How can you contribute to your team if the Tactical Cube just one-shot you? You surely can't heal anyone by being dead. In PvP, healer is often the first target of any coordinated team for obvious reasons. Plus, the benefits given by Shield Emitter consoles hardly worth the investment. Even +25 in Starship Shield Emitters translate roughly to about a +100 hit point increase to a EPtS, for example. Like really?
Particle Gens is an important skill, especially now my hybrid build depends on PG even more. The Joined Trill has a boost in PG, so the ship should have just over 150+ in PG even without any PG consoles. I suppose it can be boost up to 275 with 4 X MK XII Embassy PG consoles but that would be putting too many eggs in the same basket I think. The primary damage dealer and DPS would and should still come from the primary weapon systems. For me, the FBP and GW are used as supportive skills as they should be. 150% is still very decent considering not a single PG console was used. And I can boost it up to 160-170% easily with Inspirational Leader trait. With Conservation of Energy trait, I think FBP and GW will have more than enough boost. Even Iskan's GW III is giving the Klingons and Romulans a lot of trouble already in PvP, I can only imagine Ludavix' will be even harder to deal with.
LMAO!
I have the full 3 pieces temporal warfare set and the unique consoles from Wells and Mobius. But as you can see, I don't use any of it. One of the reason is because many considered the Temporal Inversion Field to be super cheesy / Pay to Win. I think it's a nice ability but way overrated. I'd love to use Temporal Backstep however except it's good once every 5 minutes only, plus it needs a console slot. If and when Cryptic would allow unique consoles to be installed without costing a slot, I will use it. Until then, no. As for the Mobius' "suicide console", well, let's just say it has no practical use.
For fun, I will test it again in Kerrat but I suspect every single NPC will start shooting the past copy immediately.
I've got a Sci captain in a Wells, myself. Though her build is significantly different, it does focus on Energy Siphon, Gravity Well, and Tachyon Beam. I agree with you, I think most people discount TachB, but it's really lovely (and works great to debuff the Crystalline Entity, too, BTW - Taking away 5 of it's Crystalization Regen/Dmg stacks).
So while I won't be copying your build in total, there are some elements of yours that I may work in to a couple of my characters. I greatly appreciate your detailed descriptions and thought processes behind your decisions. It'll make it easier to take bits'n'pieces for use elsewhere.
Actually, Leech stacks 15 times.
A ship's Power Transfer Rate (as controlled by your Electro-Plasma Systems skill) affects its shield distribution? I didn't know that.
Really?
Huh.
Is that displayed anywhere or is there a method to test/confirm that? If one has a high PTR, does it also improve Tac Team's re-distro?
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.