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[Rumor/ Opinion] Future LEVEL increase - YES. But RANK increase - NO.
captainhunter1
Member Posts: 1,632 Arc User
With the rumor that we will be seeing a LEVEL cap increase (possibly with the next update) I should like to politely ask that the RANK cap not increase with it.
Why you may ask?
Because - - how much more "Admiral-ish" do we all need to be?
Seriously, how much more can we do as a 4 or 5 pip Admiral that we can't do as a 3 pip Admiral?
"Too many chiefs, not enough indians" comes to mind. There needs to be some "chiefs" in the NPC ranks that can still order us what to do. What happens when there are a million 5 pip Admirals running around? Are we going to thumb our noses at Quinn when he says he needs us to do something? "I only answer to the President of the Federation, Quinn. Buzz off!" Speaking of which...what happens if they want to raise the LEVEL cap again in the future? Are we all going to become the President of the Federation then??
If I had my way (which is heavily supported by canon), we would all be Captains at cap, with only Guild/Fleet Leaders having the ability to gain Admiral rank. (Kirk would be considered a Guild/Fleet Leader, and heck, even he was desparate to get back to Captain rank :P) The rank of Admiral would really mean something then - a true leader of a group of real ship commanders (and not just some fakey group of NPC ships).
So please Cryptic folks, by all means give us a LEVEL increase, but for heavens sake, don't increase our RANK with it.
Why you may ask?
Because - - how much more "Admiral-ish" do we all need to be?
Seriously, how much more can we do as a 4 or 5 pip Admiral that we can't do as a 3 pip Admiral?
"Too many chiefs, not enough indians" comes to mind. There needs to be some "chiefs" in the NPC ranks that can still order us what to do. What happens when there are a million 5 pip Admirals running around? Are we going to thumb our noses at Quinn when he says he needs us to do something? "I only answer to the President of the Federation, Quinn. Buzz off!" Speaking of which...what happens if they want to raise the LEVEL cap again in the future? Are we all going to become the President of the Federation then??
If I had my way (which is heavily supported by canon), we would all be Captains at cap, with only Guild/Fleet Leaders having the ability to gain Admiral rank. (Kirk would be considered a Guild/Fleet Leader, and heck, even he was desparate to get back to Captain rank :P) The rank of Admiral would really mean something then - a true leader of a group of real ship commanders (and not just some fakey group of NPC ships).
So please Cryptic folks, by all means give us a LEVEL increase, but for heavens sake, don't increase our RANK with it.
My consolidated list of game improvements for STO:
arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203368/pve-content-a-list-of-gamewide-polishing-pass-suggestions
arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203368/pve-content-a-list-of-gamewide-polishing-pass-suggestions
Post edited by captainhunter1 on
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Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
its allready in game the promotion for boffs to captain just locked tight atm
my speculation and hope happens is we can put our boffs into command of our spare ships and order them to go do stuff for us or form squadrons with them
we cant do that canonically as captains ourselfs
The thing is that we are the Kirk or Picard of the early 25th Century. Only one person has done all the various missions that are in the game. So I met Q and the Prophets and no one else. I stopped the Dominion invasion of Deep Space 9 and no one else. I stopped the Doomsday Weapon and no one else. I was promoted to Vice Admiral for my various accomplishments and there are only a few other Vice Admirals not thousands. Everyone else flying around is merely a Captain.
Priorities people, priorities. Level cap raise is not a priority by any stretch so laying down the law about the way something that isn't important needs to be handled is also unimportant.
here is where your presentation takes a tumble.
.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
As for Admirals if this game was played entirely through the Doff system then the rank of Admiral makes sense. Other than that it should be a title only, and given to toons who are or at one time where fleet leader.
From January 2013's Ask Cryptic
"Q: (h00tgibson) It's easier to get MACO or Omega gear now. What are the chances of seeing legendary or epic items in STO in the future, very rare and loot-only?
Dstahl: We plan to increase the level cap in the future so that captains will be able to obtain the Full Admiral Rank. As part of that change, we will be introducing a new tier of gear, along with new very rare and ultra-rare items that are loot only. That said, we are going to be releasing more Reputations with new gear associated with them as well, but we understand that some players still want to get lucky and find that very rare item that no one else has found yet. We won't lose sight of that as we move up in Ranks."
"Q: (larsh1) Will there be anything to make use of our ships in Spacedock? I have a whole fleet of unused craft now since I only play with a select 3. I would enjoy being able to send these ships on doff missions, or have them as extra help on missions.
Dstahl: We are looking at some future designs for the DOFF system that may be quite similar to what you are suggesting. In general, we want Admiral level players to make good use of the ships they have in space dock and send them out on missions. Expect more discussion about this later in 2013."
From December 2012's Ask Cryptic
"Q: (zalenrose) Can you give us more insight on the possibility for 1st Officers as playable characters and any plans for more depth in the Doff system like specializations or 1st Officer abilities?
Dstahl: The ability to convert your First Officer to a playable captain is something we've wanted to do for some time, but is not on any current schedule. We're planning to revisit this when we eventually increase the level cap to Full Admiral. As far as Duty Officer improvements, we do plan on making some improvements to the system in 2013, including improving the UI and adding more functionality."
From November 2012's Ask Cryptic
"Q: (cbp4964) Will we ever be able to send out bridge officers off on separate missions, or have them accompany us to battle in ships we assign them from our own selection?
Dstahl: We have some pretty awesome plans for when we increase ranks to Admiral level 60 which make good use of your bridge officers, ships, and crew. We ultimately want full Admirals to command their fleets. You?'ll have to wait until at least Season 9 to get more details though."
Cryptic's plans change so it is possible that we won't be seeing the Admiral system and it will be 2014 at the earliest if we do see it. However, the main thing is that there needs to be content to support the Admiral system. Unless we have something like the Admiral system and content to support it to justify vertical leveling, then horizontal leveling through the Reputation system is the only reasonable method. Abilities and skill points can always be rewarded through other methods than leveling. So no Admiral System and there is no reason for a level cap increase.
How about Sisko in "Sacrifice of Angles". Even though there were admirals around Sisko was given command of the task force. All that has to happen is Quinn has to assign us to a command a task force of our old stuff and Ex-Boffs turned captians.
This would be true in a single player game. However this is an MMO. There are thousands of Admirals in the game. Just look at everyone on ESD or Starfleet Academy or Drozana Station or DS9 or ...etc. You can close your eyes and go "Lalalalala! I can't see or hear all you other Admirals I'm the only one" but that's reality, you can't avoid it. Even if you ignore all the social zones, everytime you group for an STF, fleet ground or space event, respond to a Red Alert, etc. the group is invariably made up a of a group of Vice Admirals.
I'm not asking for a rollback on Rank - that ship/opportunity sailed at the Free-to-Play launch (though a 'grandfather system' could still be done :P and we could get back to a more canon system of Captain 50, Captain 60, Captain 70, etc. for future level increases
Again, I'll pose the question:
How much more 'Admiral-ish' do we need to be? What can't we do Admiral-wise with 3 pips that we would absolutely have to have 4 or 5 in order to accomplish it?
arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203368/pve-content-a-list-of-gamewide-polishing-pass-suggestions
well....I 'would' like to commandeer another captains ship for my own purposes.....:rolleyes:
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
I am leader of a fleet. A Fleet Admiral. I want the rank and the pips to show it. :mad:
But everyone else in your fleet will have them too, so it isn't going to mark you out as the leader. Wouldn't it be better if Admiral stuff was just a fleet internal thing? Like special titles and costume options that unlock as you rank up in a fleet?
We don't NEED to be anything. It starts badly as being given command of ships at Lieutenant, Lieutenant Commander and Commander. Then it gets worse as you get to Captain and still go on away missions. Then it's even worse as you become Admiral, keep your ship, go on away missions, raise little creatures and can't use diplomacy at all even if you are Federation Ambassador.
But that's how the game is designed so what is the problem of increasing another level of Admiral?
So people doing the exact same content and being rewarded for it is perfectly acceptable? If each Captain had their own content, then I could see each of them being a Vice Admiral, but this is not the case. Sorry, but only one person can be accredited for those tasks and that person is me. Therefore, since only one person can be accredited for doing those tasks, then there is only one Vice Admiral based on doing that particular content. STO is effectively a single player game with really intelligent and idiotic npcs. How do I know that a particular teammate is an actual player and not an npc? If players actually altered how the game was being played through their actions, then it might seem like it was a Multiplayer game.
We need to be as Admiral-ish as we have to be. If someone wants to stay away from Admiral content, then it is there choice, but other players want to command their own npc fleet and there is no point being a Rear Admiral or Vice Admiral if we can't even command 2 ships. The Admiral system is the only way I can see that people can use their retired ships that they have spent good money on and Bridge Officers that we no longer use or have never used.
A Captain would be doing that? I think a Captain would send one of his Lieutenants who is trained in such things.
Regardless of how many 4-pip Admirals are flying around space, Starfleet still has ONE person (maybe 2-4) in charge, ONE (maybe 2-4) 5-pip Admiral running the whole show. Look, there were plenty of Generals (4 Star) in World War II, but there were only two men with the rank of General of the Army (Ike and MacArthur, each running operations in a different theater, and each commanding not only the Army, but also Air Force, which, remember, at the time, was still a corps within the Army, and yes, also even commanding the Navy -- which to this day still has jurisdiction over the Marine Corps).
Even if a later level increase did involve increasing rank from the coming 4 pip Admiral to 5 pip Admiral, let's think about this. I mean, like I said, how do we know that 5 pips represent the highest rank? What about Field Marshal / Air Marshal ("Space Marshal"?)?
Then even above the ranks, offices come into play. Secretary of the Navy (I guess "Secretary of the Starfleet" or the like), Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Secretary of Defense -- all of these (and maybe more) stand between a 5-pip Admiral and the Presidency. We just don't know every bloody detail of military and governmental organization in the 23rd or 24th centuries, let alone the 25th century.
Remember what Benny Hill said about the word "assume."
Or you might just get charged off a cliff in a non-threatening anti climax...
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
I've learn some new moves since then :P
I think the point about "President of the Federation" is a bit tongue in cheek to show how ridiculous the idea of continuing to get promoted in terms of rank and levels is.
There may well be several steps removed, not to mention that President is a political elected office that is not an actual part of the military, as are the Secretiat positions.
The Secretary of the Navy may well have served at some point but is legally required to be a civilian for five years before he/she can take office so it's not plausible in terms of this game.
I think rather than quite literally jump the gun and tell Cryptic how to implement a feature they can't decide whether to implement. Let them carry on, if content requires us to be Admirals commanding other ships then so be it.
However despite the party line, I am doubtful we will see this form of game-play as it would require a drastic overhaul of the current content.
I am also doubtful that due to the emphasis on horizontal levelling through the reputation system, that the level cap will ever be raised beyond 50 as there is no rational, logical reason for it to except to provide some kind of comparison with WoW et al.
Let me guess... you only ever watched The Next Generation?
Riker was an Admiral who kept his own ship in All Good Things. I didn't have any issues with that.
And actually to add to cosmic's point above - Dax was given command of the Defiant when Sisko was transferred to work with Admiral Ross and she was only LtCmdr.
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
That amused me. Probably more than it should have
Perhaps you are merely impolite enough to ask them to do so. They have been deemed Admirals by Cryptic after all and Cryptic is the high authority in these matters.
Really it boils down to whether or not you pay attention to it. The ranks were simply attached to the level ranges to make it feel more Star Treky. It's kind of like when Jeff Green, formerly of GFW, was reviewing LOTRO in the podcast. You save the village or whatever and get all excited because the NPC praised and applauded you in person! Then you look around you and realize fifteen other people just turned in the same five rat carcasses. Why did I have to go gather rat carcasses then? Or them? Mine weren't good enough? This is just the nature of MMOs. It's difficult to have a dynamic world and the continuity at times may not make sense.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.